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Sixty miles from Haiti's devastated earthquake zone, luxury liners dock at private beaches where passengers enjoy jetski rides, parasailing and rum cocktails delivered to their hammocks.

The 4,370-berth Independence of the Seas, owned by Royal Caribbean International, disembarked at the heavily guarded resort of Labadee on the north coast on Friday; a second cruise ship, the 3,100-passenger Navigator of the Seas is due to dock.

The decision to go ahead with the visit has divided passengers. The ships carry some food aid, and the cruise line has pledged to donate all proceeds from the visit to help stricken Haitians. But many passengers will stay aboard when they dock; one said he was "sickened".

"I just can't see myself sunning on the beach, playing in the water, eating a barbecue, and enjoying a cocktail while [in Port-au-Prince] there are tens of thousands of dead people being piled up on the streets, with the survivors stunned and looking for food and water," one passenger wrote on the Cruise Critic internet forum.

"It was hard enough to sit and eat a picnic lunch at Labadee before the quake, knowing how many Haitians were starving," said another. "I can't imagine having to choke down a burger there now.''

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Where does the "Jew" thing work into this, PN?

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God money's not looking for the cure.
God money's not concerned with the sick among the pure.
God money let's go dancing on the backs of the bruised.
God money's not one to choose
No you can't take it
No you can't take it
No you can't take that away from me
No you can't take it
No you can't take it
No you can't take that away from me
Head like a hole.
Black as your soul.
I'd rather die than give you control.
Head like a hole.
Black as your soul.
I'd rather die than give you control.
Bow down before the one you serve.
You're going to get what you deserve.

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Originally posted by rue:
"tourists lounging around in pampered luxury while millions are in desperate condition just a few clicks away."

5-star hotels on the Beach in Santa Monica keep their back (beach side) doors locked from the inside after sunset - to keep the homeless out.

The homeless push their shopping carts through nice touristy downtown Chicago and sleep in Grant Park.


I don't see the difference, except in scale.

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Originally posted by rue:
Then tell me what the difference is.

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Originally posted by rue:
My question had nothing to do with the quake per se, and neither did your comment. And neither did the article. It had to do with people ignoring the life and death need of others just a short distance away while living and dining in opulence.

So, my question remains - what is the difference except scale ?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by rue:
My question had nothing to do with the quake per se, and neither did your comment. And neither did the article. It had to do with people ignoring the life and death need of others just a short distance away while living and dining in opulence.

So, my question remains - what is the difference except scale ?

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Scale & Severity ARE the difference. It's just human nature I suppose. We all have our own tipping points on things. Why do people trample others to death to get into Walmart to buy a stupid Tv set? We all tend to ignore the bad things we see every day in our own towns, but when the scale & severity of a Haiti arises, we feel horrible all of a sudden, and we want to help. I work in Ft Lauderdale, a beautiful city that has a large population of homeless and other transient beggars. I give them money from time to time, but I also know there are other resources for them to sustain their life, such as it is. There's none of that in Haiti without the combined efforts of people and nations.

So if I was at your West coast resort and saw some homeless out there, I don't think I'd be all that upset. If I happened to be vacationing 50 miles from Haiti, I believe it would feel very wrong to me. Not sure if that explains it well enough for you, but that's my answer.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by rue:
My question had nothing to do with the quake per se, and neither did your comment. And neither did the article. It had to do with people ignoring the life and death need of others just a short distance away while living and dining in opulence.

So, my question remains - what is the difference except scale ?

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Scale & Severity ARE the difference. It's just human nature I suppose. We all have our own tipping points on things. Why do people trample others to death to get into Walmart to buy a stupid Tv set? We all tend to ignore the bad things we see every day in our own towns, but when the scale & severity of a Haiti arises, we feel horrible all of a sudden, and we want to help. I work in Ft Lauderdale, a beautiful city that has a large population of homeless and other transient beggars. I give them money from time to time, but I also know there are other resources for them to sustain their life, such as it is. There's none of that in Haiti without the combined efforts of people and nations.

So if I was at your West coast resort and saw some homeless out there, I don't think I'd be all that upset. If I happened to be vacationing 50 miles from Haiti, I believe it would feel very wrong to me. Not sure if that explains it well enough for you, but that's my answer.

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I hear ya, and I get that. Trust me, I really do.

And yes, there is a very angry part of me that wants to send sniper rifles and ammo to Haiti, along with maps and instructions, and an explanation. "Dear people of Haiti: These people have money. Lots of money. And food, all you can eat buffets. And they are laughing at your pain, and enjoying themselves in your misery. And they can be found HERE every Tuesday and Thursday. Happy Hunting!"


But that would be wrong, so I choke down those emotions and send money instead.

But I get what you're saying about the scale of the horror making the snorkeling and sunbathing just feel so wrong. Hell, I'm surprised they aren't snorkeling in the bay at Port Au Prince, just swimming around the bodies still floating in the water...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Where does the "Jew" thing work into this, PN?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

That seems a tad surreal to me; tourists lounging around in pampered luxury while millions are in desperate condition just a few clicks away.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

And yes, there is a very angry part of me that wants to send sniper rifles and ammo to Haiti, along with maps and instructions, and an explanation. "Dear people of Haiti: These people have money. Lots of money. And food, all you can eat buffets. And they are laughing at your pain, and enjoying themselves in your misery. And they can be found HERE every Tuesday and Thursday. Happy Hunting!"

But that would be wrong, so I choke down those emotions and send money instead.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Ask the U.N., or the Red Cross, or Doctors Without Borders, or President Obama, or Hillary, or Bill Clinton. They're all much smarter than I am, and I'm sure they can give you an answer to your sincere question.

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Originally posted by piratenews:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Where does the "Jew" thing work into this, PN?

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Royal Caribbean is an Israeli company. Only jews are allowed to be citizens of Israel. Never mind that 95% of jews are Commie atheists and have no DNA from Semites.

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Originally posted by rue:
I accept your explanation, if not your conclusion.

THANKS ! for taking the time to detail a rationale of your impressions, information and conclusions !

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Originally posted by piratenews:
I'm disappointed that enterprising travel companies don't offer tours of disaster zones, where you actually get to HELP save people. Some folks find that fun.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

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Originally posted by piratenews:
I'm disappointed that enterprising travel companies don't offer tours of disaster zones, where you actually get to HELP save people. Some folks find that fun.

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That's actually a pretty cool idea, and while not as effective as professional rescue workers, it can be quite satisfying as well as soothing to ones conscience to throw in a days worth of assistance, and really, how much skill does it take to unload trucks and break down pallet loads for distribution ?

The cruise companies make damned good point, and carrying additional relief supplies is very kind of them - why not just suggest to the passengers that they bring an extra bag (no fee) of smaller relief and comfort items to donate ?

S'funny what even small amounts of comfort/relief supplies can do - yes, food, water and medical supplies are essential, but life goes on, even in the darkest places, and trust me when I tell you some of the oddest things can restore a persons faith in humanity, we routed one shipment of maxipads and diapers to the superdome during Katrina, which was very well-received.

Choose LIFE, even in the darkest hours.

-F

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I like your idea Frem, but I don't thing there is a manpower shortage here, more of a leadership / co-ordination shortage...

Unless you are a heavy equipment operator or some other necessary specialty... you'd likely be in the way

and if the locals were on whatever jobs they can handle, it gives them an opportunity to do something... keeping shock from setting in and being useful can keep a guy from going crazy.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well Frem, that's because the modern army actually thinks it will be in and out so fast they won't even have to worry about stopping for lunch.

And with "god" on their side, how can they go wrong? ;)

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well Frem, that's because the modern army actually thinks it will be in and out so fast they won't even have to worry about stopping for lunch.

And with "god" on their side, how can they go wrong? ;)

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At least they aren't passing out sniper rifles to people helping them out...

(snark)

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I hear ya, and I get that. Trust me, I really do.

And yes, there is a very angry part of me that wants to send sniper rifles and ammo to Haiti, along with maps and instructions, and an explanation. "Dear people of Haiti: These people have money. Lots of money. And food, all you can eat buffets. And they are laughing at your pain, and enjoying themselves in your misery. And they can be found HERE every Tuesday and Thursday. Happy Hunting!"


But that would be wrong, so I choke down those emotions and send money instead.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well Frem, that's because the modern army actually thinks it will be in and out so fast they won't even have to worry about stopping for lunch.

And with "god" on their side, how can they go wrong? ;)

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At least they aren't passing out sniper rifles to people helping them out...

(snark)

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Ahem... It seems you missed the salient points of my post, which I'll repeat here for your edification:

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I hear ya, and I get that. Trust me, I really do.

And yes, there is a very angry part of me that wants to send sniper rifles and ammo to Haiti, along with maps and instructions, and an explanation. "Dear people of Haiti: These people have money. Lots of money. And food, all you can eat buffets. And they are laughing at your pain, and enjoying themselves in your misery. And they can be found HERE every Tuesday and Thursday. Happy Hunting!"


But that would be wrong, so I choke down those emotions and send money instead.

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I said "there's a PART OF ME" that would like to arm them, BUT I KEEP IT IN CHECK AND DO THE BETTER THING.

Just so we're all clear. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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I guess my thinking more of you than I do PN has been in error

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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I guess my thinking more of you than I do PN has been in error

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I actually haven't taken the time to read the article, but since your mind's already made up, I suppose there's no need for me to do so now, since it seems we have nothing to talk about on the matter.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by rue:
Then tell me what the difference is.

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Ask the U.N., or the Red Cross, or Doctors Without Borders, or President Obama, or Hillary, or Bill Clinton. They're all much smarter than I am, and I'm sure they can give you an answer to your sincere question.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Coming in waaaay late. Had two feelings, probably not unlike others; first aghast they would dock and enjoy the sun, then recognition of the usefulness of the cruise ships' tourist dollars, etc. Hope they do bring food and stuff, and I like the idea of each tourist bringing an extra bag. Might make 'em feel good, too.

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I have always been uncomforable in the presence of the homeless and hungry - not b/c I think they are bad people but b/c I know I have so much more than they.

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Me, too. Tho' I'm not THAT uncomfortable with them after having worked in the City for years, mostly I always carried dollar bills when I had to walk anywhere, and got to know a couple of them, one I brought dog food for his dog. Gave away a coat once on a rainy day, too, long, long ago.

I guess it's a fact of life--I hate it, but it's so huge I can't conceive of making a dent in it, so I just do what crosses my path and let the rest go, side from some sponsorships and donations. Dunno what any one person can do otherwise.

PN, take your ridiculous antisemitic neuroses and shove them where the sun don't shine. I'm sick of them.

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I think the biggest problem with the homeless, is government trys to deal with individual situations with blanket solutions

You need to break down the types of homeless people and deal with each group seperately

Working Homeless, lots of folk out there with jobs and still can't get ahead enough to come up with what they need to rent a place, I think that falls on the city govs to ensure enough permits to build a level of low income housing that their area needs, instead of how developers would work and build the most they could sell.

Mentally Ill, programs to identify and deal with folk who have mental illness in a long term capacity requires alot of resources... but I think it could be cheaper than the arrest / assess / release cycle that happens too often

Addictions, I have said before more emphasis is needed in the rehab / reform side, even at the expense of the enforcement side... How many people habitually in and out of jail is too many, and add up those costs. Relocation release after treatment is an option here...




Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"