Jesus Rifles: another success for government regulation? by NewOldBrownCoat

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, I heard about this. What I heard was that the manufacturer was approached not to do this, and was met with the statement that anyone who didn't think this was appropriate wasn't Christian. Go figure. But do I want them making any gun I possess? Hell, no!

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:15 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I'm sorry - all I can think of is - and they put 'praise the lord' on the boxes of rounds. So when someone needs more ammo they say - hey, pass me the praise the lord ammunition !

(You have to be old to get this one.)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 10:17 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Do you really have to be old to get it? Gosh, I hope not...that would make me feel ANCIENT!

The play is on the original quote (from WWII?) which was "praise the lord and pass the amunition", for those of us "too young" to know. (Shees!)

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 7:49 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Do you really have to be old to get it? Gosh, I hope not...that would make me feel ANCIENT!

The play is on the original quote (from WWII?) which was "praise the lord and pass the amunition", for those of us "too young" to know. (Shees!)

Darlin', if I remember the history books I studied correctly ( I'm MUCH too young to have been there, MYSELF. ), the quote is even older than that-- it's World War One at least.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, having seen a photo of exactly where this reference is, I gotta say... bit of an overreaction, this.

I'd have never noticed, prolly never cared any more than I do about the shout-outs and in-jokes often buried within the legalese of EULA documents.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the fact that Forquet has And I shall commit Heresy in Latin, laser inscribed on the left side of the barrel would offend em right back, if I mounted one of them things on it.

The other side is inscribed with I will eat your eyes in French.

-F

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 12:58 PM

PERFESSERGEE

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I'm sorry - all I can think of is - and they put 'praise the lord' on the boxes of rounds. So when someone needs more ammo they say - hey, pass me the praise the lord ammunition !

(You have to be old to get this one.)

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Groan............... (I guess I'm old enough!)

perfessergee

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:51 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/01/20101211239216652.h
tml

Nato reaction

Interviewed by Al Jazeera on Thursday, Colonel Gregory Breazile, of the Nato Training Command in Afghanistan, said: "We were told about it last night and when we looked into it, we noticed it was true.

"We started to take action and notify both the ministry of defence and our chain of command and they have all taken action so that we don't purchase any more of these sights.

"We gave the Afghan military these weapons. We are very disappointed, but it's a tiny little inscription and very hard to notice and I don't think it will be an issue in the field."

Breazile said: "We would have not bought these sights had we known they had these inscriptions on them."

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:05 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Yanno, having seen a photo of exactly where this reference is, I gotta say... bit of an overreaction, this.

Yep. As noted in the other thread about this, a couple minutes with a Dremel tool, or even a sharp piece of steel, would remove the offending letters and numbers.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 3:24 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
US firm to remove Biblical references on gunsights

A US military contractor has said it will stop engraving Biblical references on rifles used by the US army.

The markings, in the form of coded references, have been appearing on products made by the US firm Trijicon, based in Michigan, for decades.

But on Thursday, US military chief Gen David Petraeus, said the practice of scripture references was "disturbing" and "a serious concern".

The firm also sells the gunsights to Australia, New Zealand and the UK.

The inscriptions - which include "2COR4:6" and "JN8:12", relating to verses in the books of II Corinthians and John - appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number.

The company pledged to remove the inscription reference on all products destined for the US military yet to be shipped and ensure all future procurements from the department of defence are produced without scripture references.

It also said it would provide 100 modification kits to forces in the field to remove the references.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474268.stm

See? Simple fix.

What's funny to me is that Trijicon has been adding Bible references to their stock munbers for 30 years, and selling to the military for 20 years, and no one has noticed them before now.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 5:27 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

If I use a Trijicon sight to send a "sharp piece of steel" to end the CEO of Trijicon, will I be doing god's will? After all, my gunsight says I'm a holy warrior, so I must be righteous, yes?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 5:31 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Ehh, this doesn't bother me at all.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 6:46 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
But do I want them making any gun I possess? Hell, no!

The solution...don't buy it.

Seems to me the only question is 'does the bullet hit the target?'

It should not matter what faith is practiced by the maker, the shooter, the target, or the gun.

I also eat at Chick-fil-a...which is kinda the same thing...kinda...

I hope nobody notices the crate of Holy Handgrenades in the corner... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Hand_Grenade_of_Antioch

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 7:03 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Yep. As noted in the other thread about this, a couple minutes with a Dremel tool, or even a sharp piece of steel, would remove the offending letters and numbers.

Yep, although I don't think there's any similar way to "redeem" that battered ole Radom auto in my desk drawer, other than to put it in the hands of someone decent, although why that'd be me I still don't understand, though I respect the sentiment tremendously.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vis_pistol
Seriously, just holding the bloody thing gives me the willies, I've not yet worked up the nerve to take it to the range, although I did clean it, which was a bit of work cause no one had done so in a very long time.

-F

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Friday, January 22, 2010 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
But do I want them making any gun I possess? Hell, no!

The solution...don't buy it.

Seems to me the only question is 'does the bullet hit the target?'

It should not matter what faith is practiced by the maker, the shooter, the target, or the gun.

I also eat at Chick-fil-a...which is kinda the same thing...kinda...

I hope nobody notices the crate of Holy Handgrenades in the corner... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Hand_Grenade_of_Antioch

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

So you'd be totally fine with inscriptions on U.S. weapons citing the Koran, I take it. Or cute little sayings like "Arbeit Macht Frei". So long as it shoots well, I could be selling you weapons that reference you selling your soul to the devil, or endorsing mandatory abortions.

Is that what you're saying?

Or do you just not see the problem with christian scripture cites on rifle sights because you happen to share the beliefs of their manufacturer ?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 7:19 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"So you'd be totally fine with inscriptions on U.S. weapons citing the Koran, I take it. Or cute little sayings like "Arbeit Macht Frei". So long as it shoots well, I could be selling you weapons that reference you selling your soul to the devil, or endorsing mandatory abortions.

Is that what you're saying?

Or do you just not see the problem with christian scripture cites on rifle sights because you happen to share the beliefs of their manufacturer ?"

Um... don't like it? Don't buy it. Or if its such a sticking point, have it be something optional.

This is such a non-issue.

If the only way for me to get a full-auto Ak-47 (cheaply) was with some socialistic, communistic slogan on the barrel... Hell, Id buy it.

Then go down to Home Depot, get a 2 dollar file, and scrub that garbage off.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 7:54 AM

Wulfie, you are indeed too stupid to live.

"Don't like it? Don't buy it."

Okay. Now how do you apply that to the multi-million dollar contracts Trijicon holds with the U.S. government?

THAT is the issue at hand, you moron. The idea that YOUR tax money (and mine) is going, via federal contracts, to a fundamentalist religious nutbag so he can keep on proselytizing.

Also, thanks for confirming what I've always known about you: For all your "patriotism" and "love" for America, you'd sell out to socialism and/or communism in a heartbeat, and damn cheap, too - your heartfelt beliefs are for sale for nothing more than a cheaply-made machinegun!

What does that say about your beliefs?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:00 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"What does that say about your beliefs?"

Well, it says that Im willing to have a discussion on the topic. Not just childishly name call.

See? Whenever I do that, you jackals pounce. Ok.

If you don't like that Trijicon put that on its scopes, fine. Im all for separation of church and state. Demand from your reps that this stops, since its such a stick up your butt.

The government has to get its scopes from SOMEWHERE, and if its such an issue for you... get your friends together and demand that this stops.

It really is a non issue.

Funny how you guys are all about government control.. unless its not what you want.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:08 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

and as to what I said above.

It still stands.

Guess you guys arn't used to having to deal day in and day out with beliefs, not your own, being thrown in your face.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:14 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Or do you just not see the problem with christian scripture cites on rifle sights because you happen to share the beliefs of their manufacturer ?

I don't see a problem, since, after taking 20 years for the government to find the scripture cites, they finally did and asked the manufacturer to remove them, and the manufacturer said, "We will. And here's kits to remove them from the sights you already have." BFD.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:17 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I mean, Im sorry.. but you guys are hilarious.

Marching in the streets while Bush was around to bring the troops home.

Now your boy is in power... not a word. Troops home yet?

No. The issue for you NOW, is the scopes they use.

Hypocrites? No, that word doesn't even begin to cover you guys.

You want to talk about selling out? Start there.

Explain why you don't care about the troops still being in Iraq, or Afghanistan..

but you now "care" so much about the rifle scopes.

l

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:22 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

lol

"NO BLOOD FOR OIL!" has turned into

"NO SCRIPTURES FOR SCOPES!"

Too stupid to live, indeed.

Smarter than you, and willing to point out your bullshit.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
and as to what I said above.

It still stands.

Guess you guys arn't used to having to deal day in and day out with beliefs, not your own, being thrown in your face.

Really? Seriously?

Yeah, being atheist, I wouldn't know ANYTHING about having people try to shove their beliefs in my face with useless, stupid shit like those ubiquitous "John 3:16" signs at every single fucking sporting event in the country (Note to athletes and fans: Jesus doesn't give a flying fuck whether your scored a touchdown or not, because he's dead).

Yeah, it's not like y'all try to keep that shit in our faces with all your stupid "In God We Trust" BS on our goddamned money, either.

And you alleged "christians" are the ones constantly keening and whinging that you're being persecuted, as if you'd even know the meaning of the fucking word. But that's nothing new - you don't know the meaning of the word "christian", either.

Let's take a bunch of those scopes that the government bought and engrave (at taxpayer cost, of course) "We're Doing Satan's Business" on them, and see how long that shit flies with you lot on the whacko religious right.

As for making them stop, done and done. Now we need to, as the taxpayers who paid for this shit, bill them back for the stuff with the bible verses referenced on 'em (simply refuse to pay for it, since it doesn't meet the requirements), AND bill 'em back for the labor of removing the offensive references.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:29 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mike, for once Wulf is right...that post was nasty, personal and unnecessary. His posts have had nothing to do with stupidity or selling out, they're merely saying this is a tempest in a teapot and if you don't like it, just don't buy it. I wish our government would do the same.

I do take your point, but I, too, feel like it's a pretty silly issue compared to all the huge ones going on left and right...like Blackwater for example.

I did hear that the company said since the terrorists have decared a "holy war" against us, what's wrong with us doing the same? You probably heard it where I did, and the point was that we shouldn't be stooping to their level. Valid point, but personally, I'd like to see our government take issue with the really IMPORTANT things that make us stoop to their "level", like torture and Blackwater and so many other things!

Differing points of view don't indicate stupidity necessarily, or in this case, at all...in my opinion.

Well, sigh...while I was reading this thread and writing my response, Wulf went off the deep end again. Too bad...and gosh it would be nice if you could ever conceive, Wulf, of the idea that not all people are alike. I'm offended by your "you guys" hurling epithets at all of us blindly...but of course I can guess that means nothing to you. You've READ our complaints about the troops, and many other things, but when it's convenient, you ignore everything but what you want to point out and attribute to everyone else. Shame.

Neither of you is any better or any worse than the other, in this exchange, so a pox on both your houses...

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:37 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Giving as good as I get...

Besides, pointing out the hypocrisy of all of it is no vice.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
lol

"NO BLOOD FOR OIL!" has turned into

"NO SCRIPTURES FOR SCOPES!"

Too stupid to live, indeed.

Smarter than you, and willing to point out your bullshit.

Smart enough to correctly spell "aren't"? Smart enough to use correct punctuation on contractions like "I'm"?

Didn't think so.

And then there's you, and YOUR beliefs. You've gone from "Support Our President" when Bush was in office, to "Let's let a .308 bullet decide" when Obama was elected. You've gone from supporting the Patriot Act to carrying your guns to town hall meetings to show your hatred for other Americans. That's you and your hypocrisy in a nutshell. You've gone from the horror of 9/11 to wanting to kill all the "hippies" simply because you don't like their beliefs. How are you any different than Osama, exactly?

I mean, hey, as long as we're generalizing and assigning belief systems to people...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:49 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I did hear that the company said since the terrorists have decared a "holy war" against us, what's wrong with us doing the same?

Trijicon has been tagging the references to the end of their model numbers for over 30 years, so it's not an action they took in response to terrorists. It was just something the founder of the company started back when they were making a few hundred units a year instead of tens of thousands. His children continued to do so out of respect for him.

Now that the military has finally noticed the references, and asked Trijicon to remove them, they are doing so. So the people who 'heard it said' that the company would consider requests to remove the references "un-Christian" and refuse probably got their info from a source as reliable as yours.

It's really interesting the way some folks want to make a big issue or conspiracy out of this.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 8:55 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"You've gone from supporting the Patriot Act.."

NEVER did that.

NEVER will.

But since you bring it up...

Funny how that "act" is still in play, isn't it?

Guess your boy is too busy to dismantle it. What with trying to get the people under the yolk of government health care..

Oh but wait... thats crashing and burning... yes that unConstitutional garbage is still there.

Strange how you guys never mention it...

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:01 AM

Quote:

It's really interesting the way some folks want to make a big issue or conspiracy out of this.

Al Qaeda would be among those people. They now have a shiny new recruiting tactic, because they can rightly say, "See, they're treating this as an anti-Islam CRUSADE."

And, once again, we've played perfectly into their hands.

For such "backwards" and "unsophisticated" people, you'd think we'd be able to outsmart them once in a great while. Instead, we shoot ourselves in the foot, reload, buy a more expensive gunsight, and then shoot ourselves in the foot AGAIN!

Oh, and I LOVED this bit from the ABC story:

Quote:
Earlier today, Fox's Steve Doocy defended Trijicon's practice, comparing it to Muslim extremists shouting "Allahu Akbar" before detonating suicide bombs.

I'm sure Steve Doocy completely fails to see the irony inherent in that statement. Yes, our troops are no different than terrorists yelling "God is Great!" before detonating their bombs.

Wait. Did he just equate our troops to terrorists?

So Trijicon says it has been doing this for 30 years. What it DOESN'T say is how long it's been manufacturing for the Defense Department. Maybe nobody noticed it before because nobody in DoD had any dealings with them until recently?

By the way, I noticed that Trijicon has agreed to hold its DoD contracts more dear than its religious beliefs. After all, they HAVE agreed to remove the biblical references in order to keep their contracts. I guess their beliefs are almost as strong and heartfelt as Wulfie's...

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"You've gone from supporting the Patriot Act.."

NEVER did that.

NEVER will.

But since you bring it up...

Funny how that "act" is still in play, isn't it?

Guess your boy is too busy to dismantle it. What with trying to get the people under the yolk of government health care..

Oh but wait... thats crashing and burning... yes that unConstitutional garbage is still there.

Strange how you guys never mention it...

Yeah, what's even stranger is how you keep on supporting it, and how you've consistently voted for it! :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:10 AM

Quote:

Now that the military has finally noticed the references, and asked Trijicon to remove them, they are doing so. So the people who 'heard it said' that the company would consider requests to remove the references "un-Christian" and refuse probably got their info from a source as reliable as yours.

Source is the Director of Sales and Marketing for Trijicon, Tom Munson. Are you saying he's unreliable? Or are you saying that Niki's source is as reliable as the company itself?

Here's the relevant section of the original ABC News piece:

Quote:

Now that the military has finally noticed the references, and asked Trijicon to remove them, they are doing so. So the people who 'heard it said' that the company would consider requests to remove the references "un-Christian" and refuse probably got their info from a source as reliable as yours.

As for why it's an issue,

Quote:
U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

But I completely understand if you're saying we should just ignore military rules whenever it suits us to do so.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:13 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Yeah, what's even stranger is how you keep on supporting it, and how you've consistently voted for it! :)"

Yeah, right.

Hows all that power in the Senate working out for you? The House? The President?

Wow. He sure did stick it to the Patriot Act.

Oh wait.....

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:29 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
So the people who 'heard it said' that the company would consider requests to remove the references "un-Christian" and refuse probably got their info from a source as reliable as yours.

Cute. Inaccurate, but cute.

Quote:
Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.

http://www.sharperiron.org/filings/1-19-10/13620

Oops, I see Mike got there first. No matter: Whether they've agreed to take them off or not since then wasn't the quote. And I got the other one wrong; it was Ducey who made the "Allah Akhbar" statement. That was MY mistake, not the source's.

Still cute.

There are many who, by the way, approve of this:

Quote:
If there is going to be war, then I would rather have soldiers who had faith and standards of morality and a sense of there being such a thing as right and wrong and justice in the world, and it is Christianity that helps to make that alive and relevant in people's lives. So Bible verses on weapons therefore makes rather a lot of sense to me. For let's face it, if soldiers are fighting for a cause isn't it better to be fighting for a righteous cause? Maybe they can't be sure if God is on their side, but they can be sure that they are on God's side.

http://gkupsidedown.blogspot.com/2010_01_17_archive.html

But Colbert did it best: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/262174/january-
19-2010/onward-christian-soldiers and with about as much seriousness as I take it. Still say it's a tempest in a teapot.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Hows all that power in the Senate working out for you? The House? The President?

'Bout as well as it worked out for you when your boy Bushie was in power with all his cronies.

Only this president has gotten a whole lot fewer Americans killed.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:45 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Bout as well as it worked out for you when your boy Bushie was in power with all his cronies.

Only this president has gotten a whole lot fewer Americans killed."

Why do you insist on boxing me in with the NeoCons, and Republicans?

Makes for an easier target.

Sorry bud. This boy here is an Independent/Libertarian.

Born and bred.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 9:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Bout as well as it worked out for you when your boy Bushie was in power with all his cronies.

Only this president has gotten a whole lot fewer Americans killed."

Why do you insist on boxing me in with the NeoCons, and Republicans?

Makes for an easier target.

Sorry bud. This boy here is an Independent/Libertarian.

Born and bred.

Shit, you finally noticed!

Yes, there's a reason I do that - the same reason YOU do it with everyone else.

You *SAY* you're Indy/Lib, but your actions and words call you a liar. You've never, EVER posted up any cite that doesn't come from a hard-right or neo-con source, which tells me an awful lot about where you're coming from.

The fact that you lump everyone even slightly to the left of you into one giant group confirms that you either can't read, or can't remember what you've read. There have been any number of posts where many of us have decried Obama's actions on a great number of things.

I can't recall a single one during the Bush years where you had anything negative to say about him.

So of course you can see why one would think you were his boy, and he yours. ;)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 11:06 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Source is the Director of Sales and Marketing for Trijicon, Tom Munson. Are you saying he's unreliable?

I'm saying that he said nothing about the company refusing to remove the inscriptions, since they are doing so. If he chooses to express a personal opinion about folks being 'un-christian', so what?

Quote:
Here's the relevant section of the original ABC News piece:

Now that the military has finally noticed the references, and asked Trijicon to remove them, they are doing so. So the people who 'heard it said' that the company would consider requests to remove the references "un-Christian" and refuse probably got their info from a source as reliable as yours.

Not really. That's a copy of what I posted above.

Quote:
As for why it's an issue,

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

Once again, not an evil plot, but an oversight that's being corrected. But of course, you've never made a mistake, except maybe in providing the correct quote above?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Source is the Director of Sales and Marketing for Trijicon, Tom Munson. Are you saying he's unreliable?

I'm saying that he said nothing about the company refusing to remove the inscriptions, since they are doing so. If he chooses to express a personal opinion about folks being 'un-christian', so what?

Quote:
Here's the relevant section of the original ABC News piece:

Now that the military has finally noticed the references, and asked Trijicon to remove them, they are doing so. So the people who 'heard it said' that the company would consider requests to remove the references "un-Christian" and refuse probably got their info from a source as reliable as yours.

Not really. That's a copy of what I posted above.

Quote:
As for why it's an issue,

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

Once again, not an evil plot, but an oversight that's being corrected. But of course, you've never made a mistake, except maybe in providing the correct quote above?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Yeah, actually that quote was supposed to be:

Quote:
Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian."

Bear with me; I have a dying keyboard. I thought I grabbed the relevant quote from the ABC News piece, but it looks like it didn't take, and kept your quote instead.

An "oversight"? That's generous. Whoopsie - I accidentally on purpose made my serial numbers reference Bible passages. How thoughtless of me!

It's not an "oversight" if it's done on purpose, which Trijicon has already admitted to.

As I've said before, if it's no big deal, let's inscribe things like "OSAMA9:11" on them, or even "OBAMA2012" and see if anyone raises an eyebrow. I mean, if it's not a big deal, it's really not a big deal, right?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 11:46 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So you'd be totally fine with inscriptions on U.S. weapons citing the Koran...

No. I would not shoot such a weapon...not because I disagree with the Koran, but because I'd be afraid of the gun exploding in my hand.

I note for the record that when a suicide bomber shout's "Allah Ackbar" or whatever...the "weapon" is in effect citing the Koran.

Quote:

Or do you just not see the problem with christian scripture cites on rifle sights because you happen to share the beliefs of their manufacturer ?

No, I don't share the beliefs of the manufacturer, we both share the beliefs of the scripture.

Also, God makes us shoot straight.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 11:52 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
As I've said before, if it's no big deal, let's inscribe things like "OSAMA9:11" on them, or even "OBAMA2012" and see if anyone raises an eyebrow. I mean, if it's not a big deal, it's really not a big deal, right?

Actually its not a big deal. They could sell advertising on them like "this kill sponsored by Coke".

A Christian man started a Christian company to make a product. If its a good product why discriminate?

This is identical to Chick-fil-a.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 12:07 PM

Is Chik-Fil-A supplying meals to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan now? (And I guarantee you they aren't on Sundays!)

So no, not *quite* identical.

By the way, you pray (or is it "prey" in your case?) to a really fucked-up god if you think he's that into your kills.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 12:16 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Jeeze Kwick...

You refuse all religion, and its belief in a greater entity..

Ok, more power to you.

But I say that its sad that you refuse to even acknowledge that there might, MIGHT, be a higher power, greater than yourself.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 12:24 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"If its a good product why discriminate?"

It's called the constitution. You should check it out some time.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 12:27 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
An "oversight"?

Yes. I'd say that the military not seeing the scripture references for 20 years would definitely qualify as an oversight. They are supposed to do testing and evalation before they accept products. The references weren't hidden. The military evaluators passed on the sights and accepted them for service as they were. Once the references were noticed, a request was made that they be removed, and is being complied with.

Quote:
As I've said before, if it's no big deal, let's inscribe things like "OSAMA9:11" on them, or even "OBAMA2012" and see if anyone raises an eyebrow. I mean, if it's not a big deal, it's really not a big deal, right?

Again, it's no big deal because no one noticed it for 20 years, and now that they have, it's being fixed.

Note too that the Iraqis did something similar to what you're suggesting. Their AK clone was designated the Tabuk, after a battle the Persians won in 630 C.E. Their sniper rifle was the Al Kadesiah, named after the battle of al-Qadassiyah in 637 C.E. Saddam Hussein referred to the Iran-Iraq war as the Second Battle of al-Qadassiyah. And that's no big deal to me.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 12:28 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"If its a good product why discriminate?"

It's called the constitution. You should check it out some time.

Nah. On second thought I'll let Hero take this one.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 22, 2010 12:31 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Oh, don't duck out now Geezer. Explain to us all why it's OK and should be allowed to continue.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Jeeze Kwick...

You refuse all religion, and its belief in a greater entity..

Ok, more power to you.

But I say that its sad that you refuse to even acknowledge that there might, MIGHT, be a higher power, greater than yourself.

I say it's pretty fucked up for ANYBODY to be throwing all the credit for their murders to their "god", and it'd be one helluva fucked "god" that would glory in those murders done in his name.

If that's the god y'all wanna pray to, it's no wonder you spend all your time on your knees.

I s'pose that god must've just hated the 3000 killed on 9/11, and the nearly 5000 American soldiers who apparently *COULDN'T* shoot straight in Iraq. "Hero", I sure hope your nephew wasn't one of those that your god hates so much.

And that's the whole problem with going in thinking that "god" is on YOUR side, or that you're on his side. If there are two sides, then obviously one of you is wrong. In Korea, god hated the U.S. Ditto Vietnam. And Iraq, at least so far. And Afghanistan, where god seems to have always loved the Afghan people over all others.

Maybe y'all are sucking up to the wrong "god", 'cause yours sure has a shitty track record.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 22, 2010 1:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I still think it's a tempest in a teapot myself, but yanno, just to see what the gunbunny community had to say about it (and while laughing quietly about the magpull disaster) and all I can say is that Mikey perhaps has a point, which rooks me to say cause till then I thought he was overreacting.

But man, no WONDER folks consider most supporters of the Second Amendment to be cretins...

It's cause a damn lot of em are, and don't even comprehend the rationale and purpose of what they're defending!

And apropros of nothing but my own horror, some of the worst, most racist, hateful commentary came from THR.us - and worth noting that THR.org has FAR less of it, given one of the final blows that lead to that fiasco and split was the hypocrisy of allowing the most hateful intolerance, racism, and whatnot, but only in one direction...
While banning folk who called for tolerance.

Oleg, I am ashamed of you - get off my side!

I still don't see it as that offensive, in and of itself, but when there's so MANY bottom feedin christian scum who WANT this to be a Crusade, I can certainly see why folks who ain't them might be a little pissed off about it.

-Frem

PS. As what I think of "their god" - any of em...
http://maltheism.blogspot.com/
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?discussionID=164781

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Friday, January 22, 2010 4:43 PM