Feeling the hate in Haiti by Wulfenstar

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Feeling the hate in Haiti

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 08:16
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VIEWED: 740
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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:11 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Without condemning or condoning, I understand."

Not agreeing with this, or disagreeing with it... just wanted to see opinions on it.

Lets leave the personal stuff at the door and argue the points brought up.

http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-c
ome-by-paul-shirley/

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:18 AM

BYTEMITE

Link's broken for me.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Its getting a hell of a lot of traffic...

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:28 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Link's broken for me."

Which is why I don't post links. You are far more likely to find the article googling on a unique quote than going through a single link.

"Its getting a hell of a lot of traffic..."

Or they have an underpowered server.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:52 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Fair enuff:

Try

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/26/paul-shirley-to-haiti-may_n_4
37725.html

Google Paul Shirley and his FULL letter.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:58 AM

JONGSSTRAW

How can you NOT condemn? It's one of the most vile, racist, and absurd things I've ever seen.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"How can you NOT condemn? It's one of the most vile, racist, and absurd things I've ever seen."

Did you see the full letter? Or just the snipets? How is it racist?

I mean, what I got from is was that the Haitian people, and people in general, need to do for themselves if they are ever going to be a strong people.

The whole teach a man to fish and he'll eat for the rest of his life... while conversely... giving a man a fish will make him a slave for the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:16 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Or they have an underpowered server."

No, its just getting a hell of a lot of hits.

How about this tho... before commenting, you must FIRST read the FULL article.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:19 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

This letter is from an adult who "plays a game" while wearing underwear over his underwear, paid $100-million personal salary by looting govt CAFR pension funds and extorting local taxslaves at gunpoint, far above what his sports club actually earns in gate receipts and advertising revenue.

That's the typical NWO justification for genocide of planet Earth, including genocide of white upper-middle-class Amerikan sheeple.

Dozens US citizens and UN workers are buried in mass graves in Haiti. Just like 3,000 US citizens killed on 9/11 were buried in mass graves at Fresh Kills Landfill and used to fill potholes in NY City...

Haiti buries 70,000 in mass graves
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116412§ionid=351020706

Pentagon Parks Secret Prison Torture Ship Off Haiti
http://www.infowars.com/pentagon-parks-secret-prison-ship-off-haiti/

USS Bataan dungeon for mind control experiments, manufacturing Manchurian terrorists & waterboarding false confessions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Bataan_(LHD-5)

Bataan Death March
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March

United States prepares huge mass grave for it’s own citizens in Arizona!
www.infowars.com/military-industrial-complex-prepares-mass-graves-for-
us-citizens/
www.infowars.com/video-footage-of-phoenix-mass-grave-site/

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, I read the entire text:

Quote:
It's one of the most vile, racist, and absurd things I've ever seen.

And I'm, frighteningly, forced to agree with PN for the second time, tho' I'll stop at:

Quote:
This letter is from an adult who "plays a game" while wearing underwear over his underwear, paid $100-million personal salary...

Haiti didn't CHOOSE to become as it is. It was a slave state; slaves aren't exactly rich if they manage to oust their masters. Haiti has been under the enormous debt because of the "reparations" they were forced to PAY those masters. They're under further debt because of what they had to borrow just to be as poor as they are and survive. People don't CHOOSE to be the way Haiti is, but they need the wherewithall to NOT be that way, and Haiti's never had it.

This text completely ignores the responsibility of mankind for mankind (which obviously appeals to the writer and anyone who agrees with him), and tries to put it all on a people so driven down by poverty from day one that they never had any chance of building out of it--unless they slaughtered much of their population and forced birth control on the rest.

The writer is obviously only capable of seeing this from an incredibly selfish point of view. "Blame the victims for the disaster" is an old attitude. The Katrina victims didn't "choose" to live where they did, they tried to survive as the poorest inhabitants of a rich city, which meant living in slums under the waterline. They were SUPPOSED to be protected by the Corps, who failed in their duty and the trust their countrymen put in them. So who 'ya wanna blame there?

The tsunami could have hit California and we'd be in pretty dire straits too. Should the country then ignore us, or any other disaster, by blaming the population it hit? Given America is made up of many states bigger than individual countries, the theory should hold, shouldn't it?

His attitude is that nobody should ever help anyone out of a disaster; disasters hit everywhere, no matter where man lives and no matter HOW he lives. If we ignore responsibility for our fellow man, which obviously anyone who agrees with this letter DOES, then we're not just poorer as a species, but poverty and suffering would incease worldwide. We really need that!

So "give a man a fish...". Okay, give Haiti an infrastructure, a CHANCE to pull itself out of a position it's been in ever since it threw off the bonds of slavery, and see what they do THEN before judging them as lacking.

Ooops, I guess this means all the Black people in America are to blame for their plight...after all, sure, they were brought here to be slaves (were the Haitians? I don't know my history), but once freed, they should have created a society rich and in need of no man's help. Tho', given the extension of that belief, anyone who agrees with this concept would approve of THAT, too.

What about the people who resent being taxed and talk endlessly about "personal donation" rather than government safety nets? This is about as personal donation as anyone could ask for, so what right has this guy to ask it to stop in the first place? If others feel the desire to help out those less fortunate than themselves, who is he to have any problem with it? HE didn't donate, so it's no skin off his narrow-minded, selfish nose.

I don't see it as racist, but I see it as a vile, selfish, inhuman vision of the world, and I pity this idiot for his narrow view; I'd like to see his response if he was the victim of a disaster, because you can blame anyone for anything bad that happens to them if you really want to...nobody can make a situation for themselves that Nature can't destroy, especially countries that start out in the negative side of the balance sheet!

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:01 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I found NOTHING in the letter that was even potentially true. I had a line by line response which disappeared into the ether, and I will not type it again.

HOWEVER

Haiti did not just 'become' poor b/c the people decided it would be nice. It was made poor by many centuries of foreign exploitation.

Haiti didn't just 'have' dictators b/c the people thought they were nice. Those dictators received money and logistical support from the US and other countries.

And Haiti didn't just 'decide' to put themselves in a position of incapability. They had a prime minister who was looking out for the country and improving things - who was ousted - with the aid of the US.

Haiti isn't being given 'free' aid just b/c people are being generous. This aid is coming with significant strings attached as to how Haiti will be economically and politically structured - a lot like the Northern Marianas, a haven for exploitation. Yeah, that'll help.

Haitians aren't to blame for being born into their circumstances where there are so few resources there ISN'T enough to either leave or improve things at the individual level, anymore than the author is to be credited for being born into his.

There is SO much wrong with the letter that calling it arrogant, ignorant, cowardly and illogical doesn't even begin to cover it.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:10 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Link's broken for me."

Which is why I don't post links. You are far more likely to find the article googling on a unique quote than going through a single link.

"Its getting a hell of a lot of traffic..."

Or they have an underpowered server.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

lol I have been told the other " your posts are way too long "

I have lately tried to post a two paragraph teaser and the link as a compromise

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:16 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

If you look at the history of Haiti, they once were quite prosperous

Until they were victimized by ... well here is a Jamaican newspaper article

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Maxwell-Jan-17

No, Mister! You Cannot Share My Pain!

John Maxwell

Sunday, January 17, 2010

If you shared my pain you would not continue to make me suffer, to torture me, to deny me my dignity and my rights, especially my rights to self-determination and self-expression.

Six years ago you sent your Ambassador Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary to perform an action illegal under the laws of your country, my country and of the international community of nations.

One of the survivors of Tuesday's devastating earthquake in Haiti.
[Hide Description] One of the survivors of Tuesday's devastating earthquake in Haiti.
[Restore Description]
1/1

It was an act so outrageous, so bestially vile and wicked that your journalists and news agencies, your diplomats and politicians to this day cannot bring themselves to truthfully describe or own up to the crime that was committed when US Ambassador James Foley, a career diplomat, arrived at the house of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide with a bunch of CIA thugs and US Marines to kidnap the president of Haiti and his wife.

The Aristides were stowed aboard a CIA plane normally used for 'renditions' of suspected terrorists to the worldwide US gulag of dungeons and torture chambers.

The plane, on which the Aristides are listed as "cargo", flew to Antigua - an hour away - and remained on the ground in Antigua while Colin Powell's State Department and the CIA tried to blackmail and bribe various African countries to accept ("give asylum to") the kidnapped president and his wife.

The Central African Republic - one of George W Bush's 'Dark Corners of the World' - agreed for an undisclosed sum, to give the Aristides temporary asylum.

Before any credible plot can be designed and paid for - for the disappearance of the Aristides - they are rescued by friends, flown to temporary asylum in Jamaica where the Government cravenly yielded to the blackmail of Condoleezza Rice to deny them the permanent asylum to which they were entitled and which most Jamaicans had hoped for.

Meanwhile, in Haiti, the US Marines protected an undisciplined ragbag of rapists and murderers to allow them entry to the capital. The Marines chased the medical students out of the new Medical School established by Aristide with Cuban help and teachers. The Marines bivouac in the school, going out on nightly raids, trailed by fleets of ambulances with body bags, hunting down Fanmi Lavalas activists described as 'chimeres' - terrorists.

The real terrorists, led by two convicted murderers, Chamblain and Philippe, assisted the Marines in the eradication of 'chimeres' until the Marines were replaced by foreign troops, paid by the United Nations, who took up the hunt on behalf of the civilised world - France, Canada, the US and Brazil.

The terrorists and the remains of the Duvalier tontons and the CIA-bred FRAPF declared open season on the remnants of Aristide's programmes to build democracy. They burnt down the new museum of Haitian culture, destroyed the children's television station and generally laid waste to anything and everything which could remind Haitians of their glorious history.

Haitians don't know that without their help Latin America might still be part of the Spanish Empire and Simon Bolivar a brief historical footnote.

Imagine, Niggers Speaking French!

About 90 years ago when Professor Woodrow Wilson was president of the USA, his secretary of state was a fundamentalist lawyer named William Jennings Bryan who had three times run unsuccessfully for president.

The Americans had decided to invade Haiti to collect debts owed by Haiti to Citibank.

General Smedley Butler, the only American soldier to have twice won the Congressional Medal of Honour, described his role in the US Army:

"I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half-a-dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long.

General Butler said: "I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. ... My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical in the military service." Butler compared himself unfavourably to Al Capone. He said his official racketeering made Capone look like an amateur.

Secretary Bryan was dumbfounded by the Haitians. "Imagine," he said, "Niggers speaking French!"

Smedley Butler and Bryan were involved in Haiti because of something that happened nearly a hundred years before. The French slave-masters, expelled from Haiti and defeated again when they tried to re-enslave the Haitians, connived with the Americans to starve them into submission by a trade embargo. With no sale for Haitian sugar, the country was weak and run-down when a French fleet arrived bearing a demand for reparations. Having bought their freedom in blood, the Haitians were to purchase it again in gold.

The French demanded, essentially, that the Haitians pay France an amount equivalent to 90 per cent of the entire Haitian budget for the foreseeable future. When this commitment proved too arduous to honour, the City Bank offered the Haitians a 'debt exchange", paying off the French in exchange for a lower-interest, longer-term debt. The terms may have seemed better but were just as usurious and it was not paid off until 1947.

Because of the debt the Americans invaded Haiti, seized the Treasury, exiled the president, their Jim Crow policies were used to divide the society, to harass the poor and finally provoked a second struggle for freedom which was one of the most brutal episodes in colonial history.

Long before Franco bombed Guernica, exciting the horror and revulsion of civilised people, the Americans perfected their dive-bombing techniques against unarmed Haitian peasants, many of whom had never seen aircraft before.

The Americans set up a Haitian Army in the image of their Jim Crow Marines, and it was these people, the alien and alienated Élite who, with some conscripted blacks like the Duvaliers, have ruled Haiti for most of the last century.

When I flew over Haiti for the first time in 1959 en route from New York to San Juan, Puerto Rico, I saw for the first time the border between the green Dominican Republic and brown Haiti.

First-world journalists interpret the absence of trees on the Haitian side to the predations of the poor, disregarding the fact that Western religion and American capitalism were mainly responsible.

Why is it that nowhere else in the Caribbean is there similar deforestation?

Haiti's Dessalines constitution offered sanctuary to every escaped slave of any colour. All such people of whatever colour were deemed 'black' and entitled to citizenship. Only officially certified 'blacks' could own land in Haiti.

The American occupation, anticipating Hayek, Freedman and Greenspan, decided that such a rule was a hindrance to development. The assistant secretary of the US Navy, one Franklin D Roosevelt, was given the job of writing a new, modern constitution for Haiti.

This constitution meant foreigners could own land. Within a very short time the lumberjacks were busy, felling old growth Mahogany and Caribbean Pine for carved doors for the rich and mahogany speedboats, boardroom tables seating 40, etc. The devastated land was put to produce rubber, sisal for ropes and all sorts of pie in the sky plantations.

When President Paul Magloire came to Jamaica 50 years ago Haitians were still speaking of an Artibonite dam for electricity and irrigation. But the ravages of the recent past were too much to recover.

As Marguerite Laurent (EziliDanto) writes: Don't expect to learn how a people with a Vodun culture that reveres nature and especially the Mapou (oak-like or ceiba pendantra/bombax) trees, and other such big trees as the abode of living entities and therefore as sacred things, were forced to watch the Catholic Church, during Rejete - the violent anti-Vodun crusade - gather whole communities at gunpoint into public squares, and forced them to watch their agents burn Haitian trees in order to teach Haitians their Vodun Gods were not in nature, that the trees were the "houses of Satan".

In partnership with the US, the mulatto President Elie Lescot (1941-45) summarily expelled peasants from more than 100,000 hectares of land, razing their homes and destroying more than a million fruit trees in the vain effort to cultivate rubber on a large plantation scale. Also, under the pretext of the Rejete campaign, thousands of acres of peasant lands were cleared of sacred trees so that the US could take their lands for agribusiness.

After the Flood

Norman Manley used to say "River Come Down" when his party seemed likely to prevail. The Kreyol word Lavalas conveys the same meaning.

Since the Haitian people's decisive rejection of the Duvalier dictatorships in the early 90s, their spark and leader has been Jean-Bertrand Aristide whose bona fides may be assessed from the fact that the CIA and conservative Americans have been trying to discredit him almost from the word go.

As he put it in one of his books, his intention has been to build a paradise on the garbage heap bequeathed to Haiti by the US and the Elite.

The bill of particulars is too long to go into here, but the destruction of the new museum of Culture, the breaking up of the medical school, the destruction of the children's television station gives you the flavour. But the essence is captured in the brutal attempt to obliterate the spirit of Haitian community; the attempt to destroy Lavalas by murdering its men and raping its women, the American-directed subversion of a real police force, the attacks on education and the obliteration of the community self-help systems which meant that when Hurricane Jeanne and all the other weather systems since have struck Haiti, many more have died than in any other country similarly stricken. In an earthquake, totally unpredictable, every bad factor is multiplied.

The American blocking of international aid means that there is no modern water supply anywhere, no town planning, no safe roads, none of the ordinary infrastructure of any other Caribbean state. There are no building standards, no emergency shelters, no parks.

So, when I write about mothers unwittingly walking on dead babies in the mud, when I write about people so poor they must eat patties made of clay and shortening, when I write about people with their faces 'chopped off' or about any of eight million horror stories from the crime scene that is Haiti, please don't tell me you share their pain or mine.

Tell me, where is Lovinsky Pierre Antoine and ten thousand like him?

If you share my pain and their pain, why don't you stop causing it? Why don't you stop the torture?

If you want to understand me, look at the woman in the picture (above), and the children half-buried with her. You cannot hear their screams because they know there is no point in screaming. It will do no more good than voting.

What is she thinking: perhaps it is something like this - No, mister! You cannot share my pain!

Some time, perhaps after the camera is gone, people will return to dig us out with their bare hands. But not you.

Copyright©2010 John Maxwell

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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