Dog Licences? by Bytemite

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Dog Licences?

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 08:37
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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:45 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_license

o_0 I'd never even heard of this until today when I was browsing some Utah websites for some work related information. I mean, I know there are often restrictions on pets you can keep in a city, like chickens and horses, but dogs are subject to that? And cats, in some places?

And it's not like it's used to prevent abuse, though sometimes it's used to encourage people to keep up with vaccination, this whole thing strikes me as more like a kind of sumptuary tax on pets as a "luxury."

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Aren't they a luxury, in a sense?

I've gone without, just in order to make sure my dog has the best food and care. Ditto my cats.

I'm torn on this. I see the good behind the idea, but I also see the ripeness for abuse by either side. If a certain person in power decides they don't want to give out any licenses for owners of, say, Pit Bulls, or Mastiffs, or Rottweilers, then the people who like those breeds are screwed. And for no good reason, other than a particular prejudice held by one person, or a small group.

But if it keeps up with vaccinations, and if it cuts down on puppy mills, that's a plus, right?

Should we require licensing for parents, too? I mean, I see the same pros and cons behind that idea, too. Well, except that my dog isn't ever going to sneak my car out at 3am and total it. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:20 AM

BYTEMITE

I don't see how it cuts down on puppy mills or abuse...

Quote:
Should we require licensing for parents, too? I mean, I see the same pros and cons behind that idea, too. Well, except that my dog isn't ever going to sneak my car out at 3am and total it. :)

That sounds all cons to me.

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 11:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte's right, dog licenses have NOTHING to do with puppy mills which, are by the way, quite legal (disgusting, isn't it?). Puppy mills don't license their dogs, they sell them; they're a business so don't have to have anything but a business license. It's PETS who must be licensed, and I never have. The only way they can check is if your dog runs loose and gets caught; otherwise, it's just another tax you have to pay annually; vets remind one when shots are due. Sure, you get a fee if your dog's found and unlicensed, but I will happily pay it; a good tag and implant are all mine need.

Puppy mills are not only legal, even the abusive ones are rarely even fined, much less punished. I know; I got a dog from what I believe is one, and tried to stop them. Found out all about how legal they are, and much more that sickened me.

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yeah, it's a scam.

Mind you, I do get my kitties a certain minimum of shots initially, and have em fixed, but I avoid the damn vet like a plague - my cats are indoor, and I *hate* company, so their changes of picking up anything are about nil...

But at the vets office, with other sick animals ?
Man, in a way, that's THE most dangerous place to take your pet, innit ?

-F

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:43 PM

KWICKO

Man, I never thought Austin would be more progressive than 'Frisco... I know they're trying to crack down on puppy mills here, and have been pushing for anyone who sells more than "x" dogs a year to have to be licensed, and have to take care of all the vaccinations and stuff before the animals are sold. And they've been pushing to outlaw leaving animals chained or tied and unattended, which I'm all for. And I know they've been pushing to "ban" certain breeds inside city limits, which I *DO* have a problem with, having owned one of those "problem" breeds before (a Doberman Pinscher), and knowing a fair bit about that breed and a few others who get a similar rap. (Hint: It's not the dog or the breed; it's the owner and the "training" they put their dog through, like Michael Vick "trained" his dogs).

Now, the stuff about licensing people to have kids was tongue in cheek, but it points up the absurdity of the situation rather pointedly, doesn't it? I mean, there are people who want us to have to have a license to have a dog or a cat, but would NEVER want such responsibilities inflicted on parents of children. I find that curious, that they value children so much less than they do pets, or that they don't think parenting is as important as owning a pet, or demands anything like the same responsibilities.

The idea that it would cut down on abuse comes from the idea that if you force responsibility on someone at the threat of a fine (or threat of force, in essence, since you're threatening to jail them physically if they don't pay up), they'll automatically behave better. Like I said, it's a laudable goal, but a laughable premise that you can bully someone into being nicer. :)

My cats are fixed, they are indoor cats only, and they had their shots and vaccinations when they were younger, but haven't been back to the vet since. And they're quite happy and healthy. My dog is fixed and has her heartworm and rabies vaccines, but I keep her away from any other medications, preferring a natural, holistic approach. She seems pretty happy about that, too. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:02 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

We have cat and dog licenses, which aren't very much, but please, do we really have to pay more to our friggin local councils than we already do???

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:09 PM

BYTEMITE

I consider that a conclusive vote for "greedy city councils."

Mind boggling though. I really do consider pets as part of the family, like children even. For me, this feels like paying money in addition to food and board to be able to live with your own kids.

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:22 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Dogs and cats will soon be outlawed by the Green Nazis, since a dog has a bigger carbon footprint than an SUV.

So-called "vaccinations" for pets are sabotaged just like for humans. Kitty AIDS comes from vaccines.

We went to the Knox Co Animal "Shelter" to look for my brother's lost dog, while he was in jail on a life sentence for divorce court. Looked for the dog in all the cages. No joy. The "shelter" said that's all the dogs they had. But my wife didn't believe them, and demanded to walk back through again. There was the dog in a hidden section of the "shelter"... They have a 90% kill rate there, and were in the news for doing "experiments". 3 days in doggie jail, then a death penalty.

BTW its illegal to require a license (tax) to drive or "register" (tax) a vehicle, and 75% of judges lack a so-called license to practice law. Licenses are required by the Communist Manifesto.
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/03/constitutional-right-to-trav
el-without.html
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/01/75-of-judges-are-not-license
d-lawyers.html

"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."
-Miller v. US, 230 F 486, 489

COP. 2. to steal; filch. 3. to buy (narcotics).
-Random House Unabridged Dictionary 2006

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:27 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I think the idea is to discourage irresponsible pet ownership, but yeah, they might as well charge people to have kids, because irresponsible child rearing is far worse.

I'm not sure how it all came to be that we have to pay...I'm pretty sure dogs had to be registered for many years, and then they extended it to cats. I think we pay $30 a year for a cat and a dog, so it's not much, but still add it to council rates, water rates, green waste bin charges, car registration, car insurance, house insurance, superannuation payments, income tax, goods and services tax, energy bills, telecommunication bills, mortgage, food bills....

existence is becoming expensive

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:31 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
We have cat and dog licenses, which aren't very much, but please, do we really have to pay more to our friggin local councils than we already do???

There'll be the "Hen tax," then the "Garden tax," then the "Fish tax,"...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:45 PM

KWICKO

And the "green tax" if you don't use enough of the other stuff to have to pay those taxes!

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:49 PM

CHRISISALL

Zardoz or Omega Man here.
Both suck.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:26 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I do not mind the Licenses, provided the money collected goes directly to supporting the local animal shelter.

The one where I live hired a couple in house vets, so they are now offering to fix cats for low income folk for free, and dogs may soon follow.

If the money goes to the city, I would be against it.

As for Dog bans Kwicko, I also disagree on breed bans, but I could see making owners have a license for some breeds...

Hold on.... if folk wanting to own a Pit, or a Rotti, or any of one the big, strong dogs that get put in bad situations... I think those people

1. Need to know what they are doing ( maybe a one time owner course isn't that bad an idea ) I think the number one cause of problem dogs are owners who don't know what they are doing.

2. Perhaps a criminal check to get said license... People who buy these dogs in order to protect their crack houses, etc do not deserve them.

3. I would also increase the penalty for animal abuse particularly where it is a owner who had a course and should have known better. It really pisses me off when ( such as a case where I live ) people had two pit bulls, they got loose several times, finally they were put down after attacking an old guy. These idiots went out and bought 2 more about a month later. I have nothing against Pits, but those people demonstrated they couldn't handle owning one.

There shouldn't have to be rules for common sense, but people still amaze me

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:23 AM

FREELANCERTEX

I'm with Gino on the not minding (I don't know where the money goes, I think it goes to animal control, but it would be nice to use that cash for animal shelters), besides which if a dog is found unlicensed the fines are HEAVY, or animal control could drag your dog away and you just lost your pet.

Mostly the licenses where I live are to ensure pets are getting their vaccinations, which is understandable since we've had issues with rabies in this area before--rabid critters find their way into a back yard and the dogs protect their territory :\ The population control doesn't deal with puppy mills, it addresses the spay/neuter side of population control. The fees for licensing (which are already pretty damn low in my area, $4/8, I forget which) are lower for people who spay or neuter their dogs, so encourages them to get the dogs fixed; I personally wouldn't want to deal with an unexpected litter of puppies because I'm not a breeder (not to say I wouldn't try to find said puppies good homes if such an event occured).

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2: puppy mills which, are by the way, quite legal

It is disgusting, I definitely agree with you there, and there *should* be a law that makes them illegal; is the ASPCA looking at trying to do something like that? Every time I see one of their commercials I think "It would be nice to sponsor an animal in a shelter, but more needs to be done to make puppy mills go away" (granted they also deal with animals who are victims of neglect and abuse, but puppy mills are guilty of both)

Kwicko: I agree on the breed ban. It's not the dog, it's the owner, that's what I ALWAYS tell people when they say something like "rottweilers/pitbulls are MEAN. I wouldn't ever get one." They're some of the sweetest dogs in the world provided they're loved and trained properly. It's the owners who are primarily to blame for mean dogs (though a dog's temperament can be a factor in behavior) if they either train them to be mean or abuse them.

Gino: I do agree with you on the background check and the animal abuse penalty. They should not have to be rules but sadly they sometimes have to be.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:29 AM

FIVVER

Here it's not so much a license as a rabies vaccination tag. If a cat or dog bites someone and doesn't have a current tag it's immediately put down for rabies testing. The tag also has information to help reunite the pet with their owner.

On a side note, coyotes are moving into the area where I live - just north of Atlanta. I saw a pack in the woods behind my house a few months ago and that was followed by a spate of 'lost dog' posters in the neighborhood.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:43 AM

FREELANCERTEX

Definetly watch out for your pets with coyotes around, fivver. The town next to mine is much woodsier in some parts, and where my boyfriend's parents live they are ALL over the place; we've seen them run through the back yard in groups before. The dogs aren't allowed outside by themselves after dark.

Yeah, current rabies vaccination tags are also mandatory here (I would imagine they are everywhere, but I'm not going to go ahead and assume). But I don't think our rabies tags have any information that can link it to its owner...don't know. I'm pretty sure that's what the license tag is for :\

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:17 AM

FIVVER

I've got a wire-haired dacshund that we got from a rescue agency. He's got the courage of a lion, the speed of a greyhound, the leaping ability of a gazelle and the iq of an eggplant. First squirrel or rabbit and he'd be GONE. So he's either in the fenced back yard or on a leash for his neighborhood walks.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:07 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

I definitely agree with " rottweilers/pitbulls " being a good breed with good owners

I have had friends with Rottweilers, who were great around cats, kids, other dogs... very smart breed, but sadly misunderstood and feared by folk who don't know them. My lab used to play with my neighbors and the only drawback is she usually needed a bath afterwards to clean off all the drool ( hard to believe worse than my lab )

Had a coworker with 4 pitbulls, he told he wouldn't recommend them to someone who didn't know what they were getting into, also told me you had to make sure they were exercised regularly to tone down some of their natural tendencys.

He used his in dog pull competitions, he would harness them up to a sled and pull cement blocks around his property to practice... Went to watch once, he would let them out of their run one at a time then show them the harness, and man did these dogs get excited... a game they loved, and wow could they ever pull

It is the few who don't know what they are doing, or worse who do shit on purpose for whatever reason that make things bad for these breeds

and even then it is only because of their size and strength they get in so much trouble.

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Now you’re on my home turf! Austin probably isn't more progressive, believe me! Everything you said in your first paragraph holds true here in Marin and in the City, and far more. Backyard breeders and puppy mills exist and are legal, unfortunately, but are discouraged and there are FAR more of them in the Midwest, believe me!

The fee for the license in Marin goes to the Humane Society for it's upkeep, which is financed by that and donations only. I BELIEVE that’s the case anywhere they have dog licenses. In SF they're way ahead of US, as well. Funded ONLY by donations and fund raisers (they have a "pound" as well, which is financed by licensing fees--the SFSPCA tries to save/rehabilitate every dog they can from the "pound", and has a strict no-kill policy within their organization) San Francisco is proud of its affiliation with St. Francis, protector of animals, and has acted in accordance. They had the first SPCA in the West. The current SPCA provides incredible numbers of programs, from people who help the elderly keep pets by providing food, etc. to their door, to working with landlords to find ways to allow renters to have pets, to working with volunteers to catch, neuter, vaccinate and then release and feed feral cats, to low-cost spay and neuter and immunization, to medical intervention where even conceivably possible (their no-kill policy extends to doing everything from training, rehabilitation and medical attention to every dog possible), and on and on in a list so long it would take ages to relate. I know; my hero was Rich Avanzino, then head of the SFSPCA who went on to head the national SPCA after creating many of these programs. I named one of my cats Zino after him; he did amazing work.

As to licensing kids, I once again quote (loosely, but in concept) the line from "Parenthood"; "You have to have a license to get married, own a dog or drive, but any asshole can have a kid". I concur with the idea, but recognize it's futility.

One of the programs of the SFSPCA is to educate people who want to adopt one of the breeds with a bad rap on what they're getting into and how to care for such dogs. They killed a City bill to ban said breeds, and work hard with pit bull rescue. Yes, the problem with virtually ANY dog is the owner...I'm a big Cesar Milan fan, and if you watch his show at all, the problem is ALWAYS the human, not the dog, and easily solved once he "rehabilitates" the HUMANS. We have lots of pits in Marin, wonderful dogs, and our pit rescue is just one of many, from retired greyhounds to every other breed.

Again re: puppy mills and such. Abuse and neglect are checked into and supposedly dealt with, but it’s up to the FDA to do so, as puppy mills are legal nationwide. I was disgusted to learn this, because I was trying to go after what I believe was one myself. Not all puppy mills abuse their animals, and I don’t think this one did, but the contribution to the overpopulation of pets is bad enough. Essentially, anyone who breeds dogs other than for show or some other purpose and merely sells them is a “puppy mill”, and many of them use up to THOUSANDS of dogs, which is disgusting. Never, never buy a pet from a pet shop; they are stocked almost exclusively by puppy mills. I won't shop at one, and am working with his second in command to stop a local shop from selling rabbits, a couple of which I have rescued. Luckily the “breeder” I wanted to go after had only 17 females and 4 males, which is such small fry the FDA wouldn’t bother...and given it’s the FDA and the number of puppy mills, you can extrapolate how much work they do in that area.

Any dog adopted from a shelter in Marin or SF HAS to be fixed, and they provide low-cost spay, neuter, microchip and vaccination. Any dog from a REPUTABLE breeder has to be fixed unless they're sold as a show dog (much higher price); dogs sold as pets can only get "limited" registration from the AKC and usually in the contract it requires that the buyer have them fixed within a specified time.

It’s true, taking your dog to a vet or SPCA is the single WORST way to get your dog sick. My vet charges $400 for a neuter; the SPCA a little over $100. So I went there; he got kennel cough and gave it to our then-two other dogs...cost me over $400 in the end to treat them all. Pffft.

Fivver, to license our dogs, they have to have updated rabies shots...dogs found without an updated one are heavily fined, licensed or not, because we, too, have problems with raccoons, foxes (and now coyotes) and rabies. It isn’t a separate tag, but you can’t license a dog without it. I have no DOUBT about your pup, small dogs are the feistiest IN GENERAL and never seem to realize they're smaller!

They're a kick, but I couldn't handle a Jack to save my life!

We have leash laws—-which here and in the City are vital because of the traffic problems alone. I get around them by hiking early-early in the morning, places I know there won’t be rangers, or on our Open Space, which allows “control” on fire roads, not leashes. I’ve gotten around them all my life because I believe a dog should be TRAINED, not leashed (tho’ I leash mine anywhere around traffic)...dogs enjoy their own pace; we’re boring! I’ve voice-trained every dog I’ve ever owned; I wish everyone did! The city, of course, doesn't recognize my philosophy, so we get around them.

Gino, I agree with every word. There's a joke about huskies, that "they're like potato chips, you can't have just one", and many own teams...those of us who live where there's no snow, "skijorning", carting and hooking them up to bikes are real popular--as you said, they NEED to run, and the joy on their faces when they pull--well, anyone who's seen "Eight Below" or "Snow Dogs" can see it. I have a sulky coming in a few months from Australia which I am paying off; will have a ball on the fire roads with my two huskies!

Sorry for ramble; subject VERY close to my heart. I won't get into people who own pets as "possessions" and stick them in their backyards or I'd go on forever. A dog is a reflection of its owner, pure and simple.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:37 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Where I come from - western NYS - rabies is endemic in the wildlife - bats, skunks, racoons, foxes - everything - each with their own species-variant rabies. WNY and across-the-river southern Ontario province (Canada) have the distinction of having THE highest wildlife rabies rate in the world by far.

Dog licensing was a requirement many decades ago when I was young. The ONE thing you had to do to get a license was rabies vaccination. It's a chore and it costs something even if not very much. And left to themselves there are a certain number of people who will not get the vaccine. And thus endanger themselves and their animals, and other animals and people as well.

I don't see the problem with requiring licenses. It's a health and safety issue.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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