Boycott Marvel by Wulfenstar

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

So let me make sure I understand.

You, who constantly blather on about "free speech" and being "not PC"...

... want to start a boycott of Marvel for exercising their free speech rights in a way that you find too un-PC?

How very, very ironic of you, Wulfenchild.

This quote from the "article" really cracked me up, because it's such a sterling example of not only bad writing, but just plain bad facts:

Quote:
What’s next? Captain French is going to fight wine makers? Is Captain Britain going to beat up some… British stereotype? Hey, I remember an anti-tax, anti-government from around the late 1700s. They had some real rebels in there with names like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hancock, etc etc. How about after this Cap beats up on today’s tea-party movement, he go back in time and beat up those protesters?

They weren't anti-government - they WERE the government! And they weren't even anti-tax. They were only against the taxes they disagreed with, and were really only opposed to taxes which were imposed on them without them being allowed any voice or input.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:33 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

No, I want to boycott them because they took an iconic American character, and turned it into a vehicle of and for social engineering.

Which is the libs M.O.

So, kwick, blather YOUR nonsense elsewhere.

Whether you want to see it or not, indoctrination and propaganda should not be allowed.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:36 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Obviously I'm thick--or "comics" have changed dramatically, because I didn't get it. Didn't see how it threatened tea partiers, but maybe I missed something.

I do find it incredibly ironic that you want to boycott them, Wulf. Weren't you recently the "people can do what they want" freedom guy? Was that an "abnormality" day for you, and now you're reverting to type? Seems that way...

I really admire the art, tho'; neat to see more "graphic novels" than comics these days, tho' I just glance at them in passing.

Again with the "libs"...get a new song, Wulf, this one is old and tired. You want to boycott them because they ruined an American hero, eh? Well, given your love of fantasy "heroes", that's understandable, but it still doesn't jive with someone supposedly anti-censorship and pro-freedom. Not even close!

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No, I want to boycott them because they took an iconic American character, and turned it into a vehicle of and for social engineering.

Which is the libs M.O.

So, kwick, blather YOUR nonsense elsewhere.

Whether you want to see it or not, indoctrination and propaganda should not be allowed.

Do you not get that Captain America has ALWAYS been about propaganda? Are you really that dumb?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:38 PM

STORYMARK

Heck, just because of you Wulfie, that will be the first issue of Captain America I've bought for 15 years.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:40 PM

This from the Wiki:

Quote:
For nearly all of the character's publication history Captain America was the alter ego of Steve Rogers, a sickly young man who was enhanced to the peak of human perfection by an experimental serum in order to aid the United States war effort. Captain America wears a costume that bears an American flag motif, and is armed with an indestructible shield that can be thrown as a weapon.
An intentionally patriotic creation who was often depicted fighting the Axis powers of World War II, Captain America was Timely Comics' most popular character during the wartime period.

So, yeah... propaganda, pure and simple.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:51 PM

*yawn*
Another non-issue.
Maybe I should boycott Bond for being Her Majesty's Imperialist enforcer...
Or Firefly for popularizing illegal economic activities...

But you'll pry my black market bobbily-head geisha doll from my cold dead HAND!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Didn't think of that, but yeah, most fantasy "heroes" are part of propaganda, aren't they? And weren't they created to do just that?

Not surprising, tho', that Wulf for one wouldn't see past it and would cherish his "hero"...look how well movies and TV have brainwashed him...so I guess we should expect no less.

He doesn't live in the real world, he doesn't live in the real world...and boy, is THIS a great example!

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:59 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

propaganda cat says:

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Didn't think of that, but yeah, most fantasy "heroes" are part of propaganda, aren't they? And weren't they created to do just that?

Fantasy heroes are created to explore the best & worst of the rest of us. That includes politics.

It's a buffet. Take what you like, sample the unfamiliar or uncomfortable, and ultimately identify or reject.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:15 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I was going to respond to this:

Quote:
No, I want to boycott them because they took an iconic American character, and turned it into a vehicle of and for social engineering. Which is the libs M.O. So, kwick, blather YOUR nonsense elsewhere. Whether you want to see it or not, indoctrination and propaganda should not be allowed.

I see Mike already has.

But, to belabor a point... Wulfie, do you not understand that ANTHING which attempts to change your behavior and outlook is "propaganda"???

Red Dawn is propaganda.
Cap'n America is propaganda.
Bud Lite commercials are propaganda.

You need some (emotional) distance to see the whole picture.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:18 PM

Wait, Wulf, is this the Civil War story line? because Frem and I were just discussing this.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=11&t=41729

Okay, so if this IS the civil war story line, apparently some dumbass heroes went after some villains, and the fight got a bunch of civilians killed. So freaking Tony Stark says "you know what? we ought to have a registration for superheroes." Or maybe it was "anyone with powers," which they've been trying to force on the X-men for years. I'm not sure which. Anyway, for some reason the X-men don't have anything to say about it, and so the people left pushing it are the Avengers.

Tony Stark and... Someone else polarizes for the registration, Captain America and Spiderman polarize against it. The law gets passed because it has popular support.

Tony Stark starts rounding up all dissenters and people violating the registration act and sending them to interdimensional prison. He even releases some really unseemly villains like Venom, and some dangerous mercenaries (like Deadpool, though he's actually kind of funny) to mercilessly and ruthlessly hunt people down.

So the whole thing is pretty much an Authoritarian take-over, and Captain America and Spiderman are considered traitors because they want to protect people's rights. And Captain America is killed at a rally protesting him and other unregistered superheroes.

Now, where you MIGHT complain is the direction that Marvel took it, by taking Tony Stark's side and triumphing in an authoritarian agenda. But actually I doubt that they're trying to make the populist movement the tea party movement, because the Comics Code Authority is typically right-leaning. Which means they're going to make the right-wing big business corporate guy the hero... Yeah. Ask yourself where that takes you.

THEN be pissed at Marvel for making Captain America an ENEMY of the populist movement, and the BAD GUY. Because basically Captain America here is the Libertarian, and everyone else are Republicans, and the movement you're talking about isn't the Tea-Party, but rather the Anti-Tea-Party.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:18 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Fantasy heroes are created to explore the best & worst of the rest of us. That includes politics. It's a buffet. Take what you like, sample the unfamiliar or uncomfortable, and ultimately identify or reject.

"Fantasy heroes" push several basic tennets: individualism and individual action (as opposed to cooperative action), violence, and righteousness. Yes, they ARE propaganda.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
"Fantasy heroes" push several basic tennets: individualism and individual action (as opposed to cooperative action), violence, and righteousness. Yes, they ARE propaganda.

You mean, like when Superman hurled all Earth's nuclear missiles into the sun?
Who hasn't had the urge to do that from time to time?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Red Dawn is propaganda.
Cap'n America is propaganda.
Bud Lite commercials are propaganda.

This sounds like propaganda to me.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 4:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
"Fantasy heroes" push several basic tennets: individualism and individual action (as opposed to cooperative action), violence, and righteousness. Yes, they ARE propaganda.
You mean, like when Superman hurled all Earth's nuclear missiles into the sun?
Who hasn't had the urge to do that from time to time?

The laughing Chrisisall

Well, *I* have, but only because I've been propagandized to feel that way. ;)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 4:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Well, *I* have, but only because I've been propagandized to feel that way. ;)

The propagandizing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 4:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Which is the libs M.O.

Whether you want to see it or not, indoctrination and propaganda should not be allowed.

BTW, Wulf, THIS Liberal (Libertarian) is currently watching The Hunt For Red October, which he finds to be an engaging piece of fiction. I do not give it weight or importance beyond that. It does not influence my geo-political views one iota. It's just *cool*.

No propaganda = no artistic freedom. Is that what you really want? Is that not YOUR OWN version of "social engineering?"

HMMMM?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 4:51 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/spider-man-obama-comic-page.jpg

Sounds like Marvel got paid by Obama's $25-trillion bailout.

Quote:
PROHIBITION ON PUBLICITY OR PROPAGANDA - H.R.2764 Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, SEC. 639. "No part of any appropriation contained in this Act shall be used for publicity or propaganda purposes within the United States not authorized before the date of the enactment of this Act by the Congress."

Bush Administration Spent $1.6B on ‘Propaganda’ Efforts
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2815

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."
-Propaganda, by jew Edward Bernays, nephew of jew Sigmund Freud
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_(book)
youtube.com/watch?v=sZ8ZvYNlxiM
youtube.com/watch?v=V0OrT-8gXMs

Batman The Dark Knight was the first 9/11 Truther on 9/10/2001. On 10 September 2001, Frank Miller submitted his manuscript for The Dark Knight Strikes Again (DK2), predicting the treasonous 9/11 terrorist attacks by the president of the United States, based on the recently declassified Operation Northwoods. So Batman assassinated the president of the United States and assassinated the entire White House administration, by crashing the Batjet into a skyscraper by remote control, and using Thermite, as seen on History Channel's Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked, which reported on the long history of comics used by the Pentagon for propaganda purposes.
http://www.archive.org/details/911TruthInBatmanTheDarkKnight
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2008/12/dark-knight-dvd-holy-batshit
-911-truth.html

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 6:02 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
This sounds like propaganda to me

NOW you're catching on!

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 6:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
This sounds like propaganda to me
NOW you're catching on!

By saying "You're catching on," does that mean that I'm outside the loop of subconscious effect, or that I merely recognize it?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 6:42 PM

You recognize it. That puts you ahead of about 90% of the public at large.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:01 PM

Now I have that Buffy superiority/inferiority complex...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Where was Marvel when the Left was calling Bush/ Cheney and our soldiers Hitler and the SS ? Where was their sense of moral outrage when other protesters were calling this country IMPERIALIST and our military leaders "betrayers" ?

Odd that the angry mobs protesting our President and attacking our country back a few yrs ago were just fine. But now, when citizens exercising their rights and calling for the return to very things which founded this nation on in the first place, are now strangely viewed as 'subversive' and " anti-Gov't.".

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

Seems like this batch of cartoonist would have gotten along just fine in NAZI Germany or the old Soviet Union.

Gov't never has been what made this country great. The Founding Fathers knew that. Sadly, too many Americans have now come to believe that is the case.

And only some of the time, when " their " party of choice is in power.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:39 PM

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:39 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

What PN quoted, BTW, should not be glossed over. It was

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind."

Edward Bernays (nephew of Sigmund Freud)

Bernays' forte?

Advertising

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:01 AM

Yes, that is very astute.
Advertizing can have a strong effect on the weak-minded.
Move along.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:29 AM

Obama and his administration are just as bad as Bush, and surprisingly, I think you'll find a number of the liberals on this board will agree with me on that.

And yes, anti-government is entirely called for at this point.

But anti-government does NOT mean "flocking to the other party who's not in power." That's what keeps us in this bullshit endless cycle, because one party will eventually BECOME the party in power.

The only rational choice is to not support either one. That's the first step. I'm working on trying to figure out the others, but disruptive tactics, like Frem uses, seem to be pretty successful. I'd stay away from some of his more violent tactics though.

Also, when you talk about the founding fathers, remember some of them were Federalists, some of them were Anti-Federalists, and all of them represented the country's educational and ruling elite. I think the Federalists would disagree with you about government being what makes a country great, they didn't even want the Bill of Rights.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Obama and his administration are just as bad as Bush, and surprisingly, I think you'll find a number of the liberals on this board will agree with me on that.

Not *just* as bad.

Or, perhaps that's just a vague hope I'm still clinging to...

At least I'm not brainwashed into the "I voted for him, so he can do no wrong, unless he's forced to by the creeps on the other side of the aisle" thing.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:02 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Two lady geese are watching their husbands juggling. One turns to the other and says, " Your hubby does that very correctly."

Second one says, " Yes, he's a very proper gander."

Oh! Never mind---

and a little tip of the hat to James Thurber.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:12 AM

You want to believe Obama is better than all of this, the man can give some abso-freaking amazing speeches, and make himself sound like a wide-eyed idealist. And maybe some of him is, and he still believes in the things he's trying to do, and every deal he tries to make to get anything done just keeps undermining him. Which makes him spineless, impressive as he might otherwise seem, and which garners no respect or sympathy from me.

But it's even more likely he's been completely corrupted by Chicago politics, and is the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing, and his transformation has been so complete that he's even tricked people who used to know him. It's the only thing that explains his constant "compromising," if he really cared for what he claims to represent, then he'd actually stand firm for it.

The good news is, if he is a shark, and he's playing for the hidden team, then they've set him up to take himself down. His approval rating is pretty much tanking, and if things don't turn around (and I suspect they won't), this will end his career.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:16 AM

Well, for the most part, he's really disappointed me.
"Punk," I think is the technical term.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:20 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Marvel announced today they are pulling the Tea Party reference in future editions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/09/tea-party-reference-captain
-america-removed/

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Marvel announced today they are pulling the Tea Party reference in future editions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/09/tea-party-reference-captain
-america-removed/

Quote:
"I don't know who did it, probably someone who thought it was funny,"

It DID look added in. Still, someone should be chided.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:03 AM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Marvel announced today they are pulling the Tea Party reference in future editions.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/02/09/tea-party-reference-captain
-america-removed/

Aw curses. I was really looking forward to buying it.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:11 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

So... Wulf was right then?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
So... Wulf was right then?

From a microcosmic perspective, I guess.
But boycott because of it? Nawww.
I boycott because of the quality in general.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
So... Wulf was right then?

The T.Rex they call JANE!

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:59 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

To be fair, I wish I wasn't right about this stuff as often as I am.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
To be fair, I wish I wasn't right about this stuff as often as I am.

Wulf, it was a dopey goof in a comic book. I'd spend more time yelling about the fact that the popularity of comics in the 80's blew real storytelling out of the water in favour of sheer monetary exploitation.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:35 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"You want to believe Obama is better than all of this ..."

I believe that IF PUSHED BY ENOUGH PEOPLE HE COULD BE BETTER than all of this. Until then, he is a game player. However, he is still better than McCain, b/c McCain would have been 100% owned by the owners of Bush/ Cheney, and would not have been pushable --- at all.

"But it's even more likely he's been completely corrupted by Chicago politics ..."

No. He is a game player. His talent (such as it is) is figuring out the game and how to play it. When in Chicago, when in Washington, when in Rome ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Odd that the angry mobs protesting our President and attacking our country back a few yrs ago were just fine. But now, when citizens exercising their rights and calling for the return to very things which founded this nation on in the first place, are now strangely viewed as 'subversive' and " anti-Gov't.".

What's even more odd is that the angry mobs protesting our President and attacking our country NOW are just fine, as far as you're concerned. But THEN, when citizens were even ATTEMPTING to exercise their rights and calling for following the Constitution, they were viewed BY YOU as "terrorists" and "America-haters".

Quote:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

And if I had written that on a sign or t-shirt and taken it to a Bush rally, you'd have been screaming the loudest that I should be shot for it, or sent to Gitmo to be tortured. Odd that you seem so ready to embrace it NOW, and are willing to call this President a "criminal" and claim that he's "destroying this country". Seems you're fine with protests and dissent, as long as they're only against the things that YOU don't like.

Quote:

Seems like this batch of cartoonist would have gotten along just fine in NAZI Germany or the old Soviet Union.

... or Bush-era America.

Quote:

Gov't never has been what made this country great. The Founding Fathers knew that. Sadly, too many Americans have now come to believe that is the case.

A lot of them seemed to believe that government, especially the military arm of the government, WAS what made this country great, at least in the last eight years.

Quote:

And only some of the time, when " their " party of choice is in power.

Odd that you only seem to think America's great when YOUR party of choice is in power.

If you want to have a reasonable dialog and a polite discussion, we can do that. What I *WON'T* do, however, is pretend that you never said the things you said, and that you never acted the way you acted. And you don't get to berate people for years and then turn around and use the same language you accused them of being "anti-American" for using, and then try to paint yourself as any kind of patriot, when you're the worst kind of hypocrite this country has ever produced.

Wanna have a calm debate and a reasoned discussion? A good start would be to admit that you've behaved in the very same way you now accuse others of behaving.

Otherwise, you're wasting not only your time, but everyone else's as well.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
So... Wulf was right then?

Well, only in the sense that Captain America is propaganda. His mistake is in thinking that it JUST NOW became propaganda, now that they published something that doesn't conform to his right-wing ideology.

And yes, Wulfboy, I *am* calling you a Republican, because every source you ever cite is a Republican mouthpiece. You wanna get accepted as being in any way "independent"? Start listening to both sides of the argument and citing sources from either side. Until then, I have to consider you a product of the propaganda you're swallowing.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
To be fair, I wish I wasn't right about this stuff as often as I am.

To be fair, a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Odd that you seem so ready to embrace it NOW, and are willing to call this President a "criminal" and claim that he's "destroying this country". Seems you're fine with protests and dissent, as long as they're only against the things that YOU don't like.

Sadly, pointing out a blind spot to them that HAVE that blind spot doesn't seem to change anything.
Oh well.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:03 AM