Just Let This Thread Die, Already! by AURaptor

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Whether my opinions are right or wrong, they are still MY opinions... just as yours are.

In this thread, Im simply trying to point out that you guys dont seem to want to hear other opinions. You guys seem to just want to jump on Rap, and then glad hand each other for it....

All for having a different opinion than yours.

Again, just my opinion.

Wulf, there's a HUGE difference between you and Rappy, the same HUGE difference between Jongsstraw and Rappy. The difference is that you guys come here to communicate. It's a tired saying, but true, that honest communication is a two-way street. When you talk, we listen. When we talk, you listen. If you say something and we don't get it, or we disagree, we'll say... Explain yourself. What do you mean? Do you have any facts behind that? and you will actually TRY. Just as I would do teh same if you asked me. (Prolly, I would do a "brain dump", I'd be so happy that anyone asked me anything!! And that would be that LAST time anybody asked me anything!!

)

But that means HONEST communication. Some people come here only to "win"... whatever that means to them. Every "discussion" turns into a bar-fight. Two words in, and bottles are smashed on the tables, and the knives and pool cues come out. And they will try every trick in the book to "win", whether that means cheap rhetorical tricks or declaring "I WIN! I WIN!!" before bailing from the thread.

'Cause these people, they're not REALLY interested in what others have to say.

BTW- you're not alone in having passionate beliefs, neither is Rappy. Scratch nearly everyone here, and you will find a deeply held core values. But deep beliefs do not have to translate into bad behavior.

When I see Rappy engaging in real discussion, I will discuss with him. I've tried in the past, with variable success. Sometimes we've even gotten somewhere. But his biggest problem is that he thinks he can make the real world, with its real facts, go away by plugging his ears and closing his eyes.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 6:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
didn't intend to mess up your kumbaya moment here,

As usual Auraptor, I couldn’t agree more. Many have tried to ingratiate their way into the circle jerk, but if they dare disagree they still get called an idiot. They just make a fool out of themselves trying.
I’m really glad you decided to come back to RWED, but I can’t understand why. This forum has degenerated to the point that if you’re not taking part in the mutual masturbation you’re just not welcome.

Wow, that's quite a post there Kirkules. Unfortunately, you could not be more wrong and misguided in your assessments. I don't know why you or Aurap even bother to post here, considering your comments about the other posters here. There's an old saying, and although it may not be exactly appropriate for this forum, it still carries the same message.....You can never get love if you don't offer any, and if the word "love" bothers you, then substitute respect, courtesy, or civility in its' place. And guess what else?..."Kumbaya" is a whole lot better than "fuck yous".

Besides, I have found out first hand that Liberals here can and will engage with Conservatives in a manner that is both constructive, interesting, and respectful. If you think I'm "making a fool of myself" by posting my honest and sincere opinions, which may sometimes be in synch with what Liberals believe, then so be it. I am aware that there is always a danger of the slippery slope thing. This thread proves that.

I guess I must have missed the thread where you engaged the rabble in a serious discussion about an issue of disagreement. All I’ve seen lately is you blowing smoke up their asses telling them how much you agree with them. Your support for Gay rights and agreement that the US Gov. tortured captives may get you a pat on the back, but that’s only because you have chosen to give up discussing serious issues in favor of spreading platitudes.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 6:42 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Sig,

Truth be told, if I had to put up with people jumping on me for every comment I make (more than I already do..heh) I might act just like Rap.

Lets look it from his point of view for a minute..

He posts, and then immediately Kwick, Story, others, chime in. He has to then turn around, and go on the defensive, while also being on the offensive.

I mean, whats the solution? Rap has every right to post his ideas and beliefs, just like everyone else here has the right to disagree and argue them.

Yeah, it is a bar fight.

But to turn it around... Story, Kwick, and all the rest who hammer on him, are the "rednecks"...and Rap is the gay guy just wanting a drink and company. (No offense there, Rap... trying to make a point)

Its bully behavior, no matter the stripe.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 6:50 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I guess I must have missed the thread where you engaged the rabble in a serious discussion about an issue of disagreement. All I’ve seen lately is you blowing smoke up their asses telling them how much you agree with them. Your support for Gay rights and agreement that the US Gov. tortured captives may get you a pat on the back, but that’s only because you have chosen to give up discussing serious issues in favor of spreading platitudes.

It's obvious that you indeed have missed a lot. I've been in discussions about Healthcare, Obama's job approval, polling trends, Brown's Mass. victory, and many other subjects that others here have debated me on. And yes I have voiced support for Gay Rights and I've objected to waterboarding etc. No one here has EVER given me a "pat on the back", and if they did simply because I may have agreed with them on a subject I think I would have recognized if I was being treated as a useful idiot. Just the other day on a thread about Republican hypocrisy, I challenged the author on some of her assertions. In a fair way, she simply wrote back that she disagreed with me and gave reasons. A couple more posts back and forth, and it was over...no profanity, no demeaning of one another. Everything is not black and white, and as I said the other day, there are no winners and losers here....just reasonable or un-reasonable people.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 6:59 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Wulf

Having missed the original thread (was there ever one, I wonder ... b/c truly no one seems to know what the hell Rap refered to) I came into this: "Jesus fucking Christ, can't you assholes give it a rest ?"

THIS is your innocent victim just looking to have a drink in peace ? Really ?

And you wonder WHY, after starting a thread about himself and calling everyone assholes, people are on his case ? It boggles the mind that you could think of us as 'the bullies' just picking on the poor little innocent victim who never said boo to anyone.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:04 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Huh...I go to sleep, and first thing I find in the morning is this bullshit, still getting all the attention. Ripster must love it, and his friends, who are just as rude and ridiculous as he is.

I get the point of keeping them here and it's a valid point, but it does waste all our time, too, which is a shame.

It's all pointless, and I'm sorry Ripster ever came back. Brings out the worst in people--and remember, Wulf, there have been bad things that happened here which left permanent scars, so people aren't just jumping on him 'cuz they disagree. It's not a matter of him coming here and voicing an innocent opinion, then getting jumped on out of nowhere. Think about that, and how you usually only get jumped on (except for Mike, who joyously jumps on everyone) when you say something others consider ridiculous or argue with, and only get jumped on nastily if you (or Mike) get nasty. Keep that in mind, when you blame others for jumping on the idjits that arrive with no other motive than to disrupt.

Ah, well, back on the hunt for something actually worth paying attention to...

p.s. Ripster is wrong. Ever since I've been here, the "edit" feature has worked. As has the ability to change the title. Ripster appears to be right that one can go back to any of one's posts to change the title which shows up on the "threads", one still only has to go back with "hit reply" to find out who FIRST changed it, etc.,etc. Makes me wonder if HIS abilities in this manner were removed, but nobody else's? I just changed the title back to what I believe it's original was--Ripster had gone back and changed his very first thread to change the title, far as I can see...

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:10 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

KIRK... the reason why I can give you a long list of RapFacts is because I tried to engage Rappy in a series of consequential discussions: The war in Iraq, the coming economic meltdown, economic policy, global warming. You may not remember, perhaps Rappy doesn't either, but I remember drilling down with him on many vital issues.... only to have him deny, delay, obfuscate and (ultimately) bail.

For example, one of the most frustrating discussions I had with him was on his insistence that the UN gave permission to the USA to invade Iraq based on UN Resolution 678. Well, we went rounds on the fact that the subsequent UN Resolutions supersede (replace, make null and void) previous UN resolutions on Iraq. I linked UN resolutions. I linked UN procedures about supersession. I even quoted UN Resolutions which DID authorize invasion, peacekeeping troops, or transfer of authority (Bosnia, Sudan, Haiti). I quoted Bush and Blair to show that THEY understood what UN R1441 meant.

All in all, I made an airtight case that

UN Resolution 687 was superseded by UN R 1441
UN Resolution 1441 cites UN R687, not to reactivate it, but to kill it.
UN Resolution 1441 does not, in any way, shape, or form, authorize member states to invade Iraq.

Rappy's response to FACTS was simply to plug his ears, close his eyes, shout I WIN! I WIN!, and bail from the thread.

Really, why try and discuss ANYTHING with a person like that?

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:10 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Rue,

No... what I see is Rap becoming so frustrated with the endless taunting, bad-mouthing, ect... that he started this thread as a cathartic way of venting frustration.

Which, by the way, has generated a LOT of hits, posts, and views.

What I find amusing about all of this, is that while Rap may be on the far right of the spectrum, the ones after him are on the far left.

So, should one of the far left folk go onto another site, where the majority of posters are far right... and receive the same treatment?

Its bully behavior, the many vs the few, the "strong" vs the "weak".

While Rap has had good points, they are immediately drowned out in the chorus which follows.

(Oh, and calling people assholes? We are all adults here... Im sure we've heard that word before.. and, I seem to recall being told to go kill myself at one point... but thats another matter)

I always liked these boards for the simple reason that, while it does generate and degenerate a lot of views, we all get the possibility of seeing those views.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Hey AURaptor,

You're not exactly on friendly terms with a whole slough of people here and yet you demand to be treated better than one. You demand that all your flaws be ignored, and proclaim endlessly that your detractors are simply incapable of acknowledging the truth of your ascendancy. You insult all and sundry and then play the eternal victim of their ill-treatment.

I never demanded to be treated better than anyone

I never demanded my flaws be ignored, in fact, I've gone a lot further in acknowledging them than others have about themselves, but that's not why I'm here. I'm here to discuss real world events, and then am attacked for my views. Why ? Because I don't hate the last President, and think the ones who attacked us on 9/11 deserve far more anger and venom than those who did their job to protect us. ( There's obviously more to it than that, but there's one example. )

Quote:
It just doesn't seem to be working. And if you want any assholes to give it a rest, you might start by modeling such behavior yourself.
I " modified " my behavior a full year, not once posting on this thread. It didn't work. I came back, and w/ out doing anything, was attacked , unprovoked, simply for who I was. I responded in like kind, and so I'M the one who gets labeled as the trouble maker. Imagine that.

Quote:
You've been gone for upwards of a year and within a day of resurfacing you're defending Bush's veracity (oh I know, I know, they started it, right)? That's another thing that is completely obnoxious in a friend--when he has some hero or other and can't seem to see anything bad about the guy whatsoever and can never ever let a slight against his hero go without loudly denouncing the criticism. And sorry, but your "disagreements" with Dubwa's policies 'cause you're a "libertarian" really don't count as perspective on the man.

You're doing it right there. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Because I didn't hate Bush, you go off on this ridiculous tangent of how he must be my HERO, how I didn't see anything bad about the guy what so ever...

Which is it ? I'm a libertarian and so when I disagree w/ Bush's policies, that doesn't count? Now you're telling me I HAD to boldly reject the guy, completely, or become a goose stepping Right Wing nazi ? Sorry, I'm not going to fit into your narrowly defined stereo type, of either hippies or jack booted thugs. It doesn't work that way, and neither you or any of the a-holes on this board gets to define who I am or what are my views.

Between Gore and Bush and Kerry and Bush, I chose, and will ALWAYS choose Bush. Every time. Doesn't make me put Bush on a pedestal, it's just the reality of our political system. He did some things I like, some things I hated, and a great many things I didn't care for, but which really weren't that big a deal, either way. It's where we disagree on how 'bad' Bush was that has shaped your view of me, and it's a common theme I see all across America. Anyone who holds certain views gets praised or vilified by the Left with out benefit of hearing the other side.

Quote:
Dude, you're claiming that a politician NEVER LIED. You realize that don't you?

Nope, that's never what I claimed. Which only goes to prove my point about Kwickie here. He distorts what I say, and then runs w/ it , so loudly and so vociferously , that anyone who hops in on the conversation late ( or is predisposed to dismiss what ever I say, out of hand ) gets the wrong idea of what I'm saying.

Look, I GET that this is a sci-fi based forum. And the list of those who were are are Young Republicans isn't likely to be too long. But I really expected far more tolerance and open mindedness.

I was wrong.

( See? I can admit to my faults! ) How about you ?

*sidenote* If I were to end the thread, I think Pizmo's " Failure to communicate " clip would have been spot on. So completely fitting, it is.

Alas, others didn't see it that way, and thus the absurdity continues.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wulf, as I said before: When Rappy attempts to discuss, I will discuss in return. I've tried... please read my reply to KIRK... mostly failed, but not for lack of effort on my part.

And no, this doesn't HAVE to be a bar fight. IMHO, if someone tries to provoke a fight with words... and this is EXACTLY what I think Rappy did ... everyone should go back to peaceably drinking their drinks, and ignore the fool shouting in the corner.

NOW, IMHO, this thread is about 200X longer than it should be.

I will not defend people who pound in Rappy for the sheer helluvit, even myself- except Kwicko, bc Rappy said something that was personally unforgiveable. I try, for the most part, to discuss when discussion is due and ignore when it is not, even tho I fail - miserably, at times - to follow my own advice. So for any times that I might have launched at you personally, I'm sorry. For those times when I've launched at Rappy personally, I'm sorry. I will try to do better next time.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:19 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Posting to change title back to original...AGAIN!

And I disagree, Wulf...in the time I've seen Rapster reappear, I've seen nothing but nastiness on his part--pretty visceral nastiness...and again I remind you, there is a past here which you and I might know nothing about (unless you were here then?). People's pasts stay with them, and particularly nasty pasts never go away.

How and what people post sticks with them; I've agreed with virtually everyone who's been nasty now and again, I try to take each post as it comes. But the fact remains that once on a forum long ago, one's method of posting carries with it a foreknowledge of the person. That's part of human nature, and you won't change it by being reasonable any more than you'll change the person who gained the reputation from being UNreasonable.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:32 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Wulf

Here is a simple example of WHY people get on Rap's case:

He posted that there were 'massive' protests against Afghanistan under Bush but not under Obama in order to make the case that people here are party-first and policy-second sheeple. I pointed out to him that there were no MASSIVE protests against Afghanistan, and therefore the point he was trying to make wasn't made. He then posted that he posted that there were PLENTY of protests - when he clearly and unambiguously posted MASSIVE. And that I was somehow misquoting him by using his EXACT words. And this is what he's been stuck on ever since.

He lies about simple things that can be easily checked - like what did he post. He insults people. He brings no facts to the table except what we now know as RapFacts™ - things which are clearly untrue and easily refuted. He refuses to discuss rationally, or discern provable fact from his opinion.

He really is not here to discuss. He is here to rant the teachings of Rush, to insult, to fight, and to troll. Oh, and to hold himself up as some kind of model of independent thinking, logic AND ! reason, and purveyor of truth AND reality - which we, poor benighted slobs that we are, are all completely lacking.

He comes in spoiling for a fight, insulting EVERYONE, and trolling. We are not picking on him. And he is getting exactly what he wants.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:38 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"He posted that there were 'massive' protests against Afghanistan under Bush but not under Obama in order to make the case that people here are party-first and policy-second sheeple."

I happen to agree with that, to an extent.

I don't know about MASSIVE, but I saw a TON of protests here in D.C. about Afghanistan.

But not one lately.

AND, I seem to recall a TON of protests and anger over the Patriot Act...

but not now.

So, he does have a point. Where is the outcry over the Patriot Act? Over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, now that Obama is in power?

Instead... we have "Healthcare Reform"...

Instead of bringing the troops home, we have a surge. Instead of getting rid of the Patriot Act, the Feds are pushing for more and easier powers of surveillance.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And he is getting exactly what he wants.

Then why give it to him????

IF Rappy is delusional... and I feel he has been in the past... you know as well as I that delusional people process discussion differently than people who weight facts. They come LOOKING for a fight, so that they can bolster their own delusions when they feel they have "won". They're hooked on an idea, and that is how they get their fix, their little jolt of dopamine.

Whether Rappy is delusional, a troll, or a spoiled kid looking for attention, the longer we engage him on his turf, the more we're enablers.

WE supposedly are the reasoning adults in this discussion. We shouldn't be able to have our buttons pushed so easily that we jump into the fray.

And, there is nothing more pathetic... and ultimately, nothing more dis-incentivizing... than letting the deluded/ histrionic/ troll rant all by himself in a corner, WITHOUT ANY FEEDBACK.

Think about it.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You're not getting it, Wulf...the post was about why people feel the way they do about Rippy, not about protests. It's about him using the word "Massive" then either saying he didn't (a great FauxNews tactic, by the way) or changing his post to change the word he used--I don't know which, as I didn't pay attention or wasn't here.

But the post is not about protests, how many, when, etc. It's about Rippy either lying or falsifying the truth. I understand what Rue was doing; explaining why Rippy has such a bad reputation, responding to the initial issue of his complaining people won't "give it a rest". If you didn't understand that, hopefully you do now; if you were trying to change the subject to protests and agreeing with Rippy, shame on you.

Changing title back once again (and getting tired of it)

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:47 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Where is the outcry over the Patriot Act? Over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, now that Obama is in power?

There is plenty. I started a thread about left-wing tea-partiers. The left wing pretty pissed at Obama- not as much as under Bush, but definitely not happy campers.

The problem with the left wing... a problem I feel will SOON be rectified... is that they still feel that they can go the political route because "their" party is in power. So the action has been through the usual channels- petitions, letter-writing campaigns, etc. At this point, I believe the left wing is coming the the realization that "their" party and "their" President is no longer "theirs", but the corporations'. When the left wing has fully come to that realization, you'll see a big change in tactics. (Which, BTW, is more than I would ever expect to see form Republicans. Bc, where were the massive REPUBLICAN protests under Bush, eh?)

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
KIRK... the reason why I can give you a long list of RapFacts is because I tried to engage Rappy in a series of consequential discussions: The war in Iraq, the coming economic meltdown, economic policy, global warming. You may not remember, perhaps Rappy doesn't either, but I remember drilling down with him on many vital issues.... only to have him deny, delay, obfuscate and (ultimately) bail.

For example, one of the most frustrating discussions I had with him was on his insistence that the UN gave permission to the USA to invade Iraq based on UN Resolution 678. Well, we went rounds on the fact that the subsequent UN Resolutions supersede (replace, make null and void) previous UN resolutions on Iraq. I linked UN resolutions. I linked UN procedures about supersession. I even quoted UN Resolutions which DID authorize invasion, peacekeeping troops, or transfer of authority (Bosnia, Sudan, Haiti). I quoted Bush and Blair to show that THEY understood what UN R1441 meant.

All in all, I made an airtight case that

UN Resolution 687 was superseded by UN R 1441
UN Resolution 1441 cites UN R687, not to reactivate it, but to kill it.
UN Resolution 1441 does not, in any way, shape, or form, authorize member states to invade Iraq.

Rappy's response to FACTS was simply to plug his ears, close his eyes, shout I WIN! I WIN!, and bail from the thread.

Really, why try and discuss ANYTHING with a person like that?

Your case may have been airtight, but the issue to me is the weight you give the verdict. I couldn’t give a damn what the UN decides when it comes to the US. I feel the UN has become a joke in recent times and only still exists because of continued support by the US.
I must say SignyM that lately you have been more even tempered than in the past. I take it to mean things are going good for you. Even when you are in your bitter mode, your intelligence is never questioned. Why is it necessary to label all conservatives as ignorant in order to reassure yourselves of intellectual superiority. Everyone else here has said things as bad or worse than me or Auraptor, and they just get a pass. We only respond in kind, so if you want a civil discussion keep it civil on your end and you will receive the same.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, this is getting amusing. I'm guessing Sig didn't change the title, so the logical extrapolation (since I changed it back to the original) is that Rippy is going back to his ORIGINAL POST each time and changing it back to what it is now.

My gawd, how childish! I give up on fixing the thread title, let him play his baby games!

By the way, Sig, I disagree; I think many of us are equally pissed that the Republicans' consistent use of the fillibuster has kept a lot of things from happening...I'm not pleased with Obama, but I'm bright enough to recognize that he's not to blame things aren't getting done.

The health care bill turned out the way it did because it incorporated Republican "ideas" in an effort at bipartisan compromise (and was forced to pay blackmail to Blue Dogs). The Repubs then went on to vote "no" anyway, on things even they had agreed with, WERE incorporated into the bill, and even co-sponsored before! It was a stupid move on the Dems' part and Obama's to try and win obviously impossible votes by cow-towing to them, and yes, I'm getting sick of THAT, too! That's how I feel, and I suspect many others.

p.s. Kirk: The post was an effort to explain people's attitudes toward Rippy, not to argue about the UN. Why can't you guys respond on point...it's very interesting. Trying to turn the discussion away from Rippy, are we?

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:05 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I don't know about MASSIVE, but I saw a TON of protests here in D.C. about Afghanistan."

In fact, invading Afghanistan had a US 95% approval rating. Your views on what you THOUGHT was happening may be skewed. I suspect that is true b/c you didn't notice the 95% approval, which I think would be hard to miss.
(A fact I was acutely aware of, since I was in the 5% group. And even with my personal interest, I didn't find any other people who held my position, and certainly didn't get any notice of protests, or solicitation for funds. If there were protests, they were isolated individuals or small groups with no funding or media outreach.)
Psychologically,, people tend to only see (literally) what supports their opinions. You expected there to be protests against Bush, and that is the exactly, and only, thing you saw. You missed 95% of the picture.

"But not one lately."

The majority (55%) of people think Obama will find a strategy that works. (Reuters, Nov 2009).
I didn't see ANY of the 'TON' of protests you claimed were covered in the media, and I don't see any now. So the lack or presence of protests is not a definitve 'fact'.
But the lack of protests being covered doesn't mean people are in agreement (45% are not), or that they're not, for example, sending money and letters to get the policy reversed.
It's a large leap to conclude that people are Obama worshippers and sheeple based on the notion that just b/c YOU don't see protests, it means people are going along.

"AND, I seem to recall a TON of protests and anger over the Patriot Act..."

I didn't. IN FACT - when I brought up my objections HERE I was told in so many words, by Rap, Geezer, Hero and others, that I was unAmerican, that if I wasn't doing anything wrong I wouldn't have anyting to worry about, and that governemnt has always been that way so why was I complaining ? There were VERY few people on my side. It was a lonely protest.

"but not now."

And again, you seem to think that just b/c YOU aren't seeing something, it isn't there.

"So, he does have a point. Where is the outcry over the Patriot Act? Over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, now that Obama is in power?"

I addressed the Iraq issuew ith Rap, by pointing out that this year, US troops will be drawn down to 30,000 - 50,000, and that by 2012 AS REQUIRED BY IRAQ, US troops will be completely gone. Things seem to be going in the right direction there.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

KIRK

Quote:
Your case may have been airtight, but the issue to me is the weight you give the verdict. I couldn’t give a damn what the UN decides when it comes to the US.

May be, Kirk, may be.

But that wasn't Rappy's argument. He continually hid behind the fig leaf of UN approval, even when it was apparent that the fig leaf didn't exist.

AFA being more even-tempered... things are going better for me, thank you. My hubby and my daughter are now both medically stable, he is not in serious pain and she is not continuously seizing, and THAT has taken a huge load off my mind.

But I'd like to think I've actually learned something too, from being here so long and talking with so many. One of them is about ends and means. I have seen so many people on the right justify so many egregious things because they felt they were ... er... "righteous". And I have seen those "means" create serious, serious blowback. But the same applies to the left, too, no? So if I've learned anything here (and I feel I've learned a LOT), it is "Be the change you wish to see" Sounds stupid, I know.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
p.s. Kirk: The post was an effort to explain people's attitudes toward Rippy, not to argue about the UN. Why can't you guys respond on point...it's very interesting. Trying to turn the discussion away from Rippy, are we?

Thanks for explaining the obvious to me. I would have never figured that out for myself. The point that you missed is that I don’t care how many irrelevant facts you produce, it doesn’t change my opinion of the relevant facts.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:23 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

NIKI- I blame Obama, but he's not the only one. If you were to go back to the Left-Wing tea-partier thread, and read the link, you'd read some Obama campaign quotes about "fundamentally changing the way things are done in Washington" and about how he "would not accept anything less than a public health option" and so forth. Then, he goes and makes backroom deals with pharma?

I also blame the Blue Dog Democrats, AND the Republicans. They're mostly in corporate pockets. I've taken part in every single letter-writing, phone-calling, and petition campaign that came to my attention. But letter writing just doesn't stand up to dollar bills, yanno?

The politicians need a FIRE lit under them. To bolster those who want to do good, and to put the fear of the people's wrath into those who want to play politics as usual. It's a very undirected approach, meant to push EVERYONE: Dems, Repubs, Congress, and the Prez.
/end threadjack

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Friday, February 12, 2010 9:28 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

Bump.
I think this thread is far funnier than PN's.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 10:21 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"He posted that there were 'massive' protests against Afghanistan under Bush but not under Obama in order to make the case that people here are party-first and policy-second sheeple."

I happen to agree with that, to an extent.

I don't know about MASSIVE, but I saw a TON of protests here in D.C. about Afghanistan.

But not one lately.

AND, I seem to recall a TON of protests and anger over the Patriot Act...

but not now.

So, he does have a point. Where is the outcry over the Patriot Act? Over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, now that Obama is in power?

Instead... we have "Healthcare Reform"...

Instead of bringing the troops home, we have a surge. Instead of getting rid of the Patriot Act, the Feds are pushing for more and easier powers of surveillance.

And how many of those protests against Afghanistan and the Patriot Act were YOU a part of? I mean, since you are so against those things, I'd expect that you'd have been out in the streets DOING things, right? Since you claim that words mean nothing, only deeds.

So where were YOU when Bush was wiping his ass with the Constitution?

Oh yeah - you were asleep. Or should I say you were A SHEEP.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 10:26 AM

Niki, can you NOT call Rappy "Rippy" or "Ripster"? I'd hate for anyone to get confused and mix Rappy up with RIPWash, who IS a very reasonable conservative, and quite engaging to talk with and have discussions with. Too bad HE hasn't come back. His input is sorely missed around here, but Jongsie has been doing a great job of filling in, and providing a reasoned debate and level-headed discourse on conservative issues.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 11:02 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't like calling him "Rappy"...it's too friendly a moniker. I didn't choose "Ripper", which he fully deserves, for obvious reasons. I choose my own sometimes; sometimes I go with what others choose. I call you Mike because that's how you used to sign your posts. Any suggestions gratefully accepted...

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Friday, February 12, 2010 11:06 AM

RIPWASH

Thanks for that, Kwick. I knew Niki wasn't referring to me, but it still made me wish she'd call him something else.

That said, I wondered why Rap came back on to this side of the board. I respected him for staying away. I was hoping a "leave of absence" would lead him to more level headed discussion, but I also understand the fact that he has burned quite a few bridges with folk who don't necessarily want them rebuilt.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, February 12, 2010 12:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually my first thought to it was that it was subtle encouragement...
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp08312004.shtml

Ok, that's not nice, but since we've gone far beyond the ridiculous here already, what's a few toothpicks on the bonfire ?

Speakin of, remind me to run if Randy ever visits Austin, cause him and Mikey in the same room together would reach critical mass and we'd have a Snarpokalypse on our hands.

Oh, and Kirk ? quit whining, man, I thought you had more sense than to try to bail out someone busy blowing holes in the bottom of their boat for no other reason than malice, and bad enough you choose to do that without whinging about the inevitable result here.

You'll do as you like, of course, but wouldn't your efforts be better served making coherent arguments in a constructive fashion instead of trying to defend someone who's mere presence makes it pointless to even try ?

I might not like you, but I never considered you stupid, so it boggles me that you'd bother to defend the indefensible conduct of someone who manages to make "conservatives" look like a pack of rabid, intolerant hatemongers who wanna destroy anything that isn't them, while screaming about how "persecuted" they are when their would-be victims decide to take that publicly expressed intent and ram it down their throat on a hobnailed boot.

Seriously, when did THAT start making sense to you ?

-F

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Friday, February 12, 2010 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I don't like calling him "Rappy"...it's too friendly a moniker. I didn't choose "Ripper", which he fully deserves, for obvious reasons. I choose my own sometimes; sometimes I go with what others choose. I call you Mike because that's how you used to sign your posts. Any suggestions gratefully accepted...

"Rappy" came from when Rue (I think it was Rue; might have been Signy) started sending him off to "fetch" facts to back up his ludicrous claims, and dubbed him Rappy The Wonder Dog™.

He's also been known as (and answer to) RapTard, AwwCrapper, Crappy, The Crapster, and others.

I was just concerned that Rippy was too close to Ripper (aka RIPWash), who is a genuinely good guy.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, February 12, 2010 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Thanks for that, Kwick. I knew Niki wasn't referring to me, but it still made me wish she'd call him something else.

That said, I wondered why Rap came back on to this side of the board. I respected him for staying away. I was hoping a "leave of absence" would lead him to more level headed discussion, but I also understand the fact that he has burned quite a few bridges with folk who don't necessarily want them rebuilt.

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

RIPPER!! Good to see you, my old friend! How's life treating you? Well I hope.

And yeah, those bridges seem to be well and truly burned.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, February 12, 2010 1:15 PM

RIPWASH

Life is good, I suppose. Had a good interview about two weeks ago so, I'm waiting to hear their final decision (it's a new position for them and they're waiting to see if they can really afford what they want to do).

*********************************************

"It's okay! I'm a leaf on the wind!!!"
"What does that mean?!?!?!"

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Friday, February 12, 2010 1:18 PM

Fingers crossed, hoping it goes your way, Rip.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 1:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Good luck, R.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, February 12, 2010 2:02 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

My best wishes, too, Rip; if Mike vouches for you as a reasonable conservative, that's all I need to hear. Do wish you'd show up here when you can tho', I hunger for someone of your stance who can actually discuss things with us!!

And thanx, Mike, those are great. Crappy it is!

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Friday, February 12, 2010 2:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Oh, and Kirk ? quit whining, man, I thought you had more sense than to try to bail out someone busy blowing holes in the bottom of their boat for no other reason than malice, and bad enough you choose to do that without whinging about the inevitable result here.

You'll do as you like, of course, but wouldn't your efforts be better served making coherent arguments in a constructive fashion instead of trying to defend someone who's mere presence makes it pointless to even try ?

There was a time Frem when you would have been the first to defend a person’s right to post here without having to suffer a barrage of ridiculous accusations unrelated to the subject at hand. Seems now your just one more of the rabid dogs jumping in at every opportunity to nip at the heels of those you disagree with just to keep your position in the pack. I hope the sad state you’ve sunk to is worth it to you , because it just looks pitiful from my perspective. I always kind of liked your former self, even though I do think you are as batty as PN though better at concealing it.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 4:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh horseshit, Kirk ole boy.

If imma light into someone, imma do so without regard to the opinion of others, so don't go trying a spin even you don't buy man, unless you're doin it for humor value.

Seriously, a pitiful effort, you can do way better if you wanna flame me, cause that was weak and sloppy.

As to why, come on, Kirk - I'm human, my patience is finite, and he exhausted it, I kept reaching across the aisle time and time again, long after everyone else had given up in disgust and all I ever got for it was chewed fingers...

It's like one of them nasty little yappy dogs, sooner or later you stop offering the hand, and start kickin on sight, and when it comes back months later snarling, who the hell is dumb enough to spare the boot ?

I was comparitively (for me) polite, in pointing out this was a matter of personal responsibility for his own conduct, and bit my tongue a bit longer before lighting into the guy cause I wanted to see if he'd grown up.

And yes, I mean personal responsibility, cause are you really trying to sell me the idea he didn't do the shit he's been called out on, does not continue to do it ?

Is partisanship so very much more important to you that you'll defend even the most heinous behavior so long as it's from "your corner" ?

Cause you know that's a lotta what's wrong with american politics, and why Obamas gettin a free pass he don't deserve, which pisses me off all the more cause whatever Conservative opposition there is with half a brain, has to drag the dead weight of lunatics like your buddy here who make them look like rabid lunatics to the american public, the same way Jack Chick makes christians look like monsters.

Which means Obama and the chicago-new york-tammany hall crowd get to steamroller every damned thing in sight cause the "opposition" is viewed as a bunch of rabid, intolerant, racist ignoramuses since they choose to deliberately include such goons for no better reason than political partisanship even when it makes no logical or effective SENSE.

You think those offers of "bi-partisanship" are SINCERE ?
Oh hell no, they're Obamas way of making Conservatives look like a bunch of total fuckwads, and they're playin right into his hands by shoving out the meanest, dumbest, nastiest of the bunch with a nice big bullseye on their foreheads just ASKING the american people to flush them down a hole, just look how MUCH of a total screwup it takes to even dent a Democrats support these days - it was shit like this that got Marion Barry re-elected, and Kwame Kilpatric elected, cause seeing this behavior makes even the slimiest Democrat look positively sterling in comparison, case in point, Bill Clinton, who we knew was sleaze when we elected his ass, but what did YOUR faction have to offer but the perception of a bunch of bucktoothed redneck lynch mobbers who hate anything that isn't them ?

So where the hell does that leave me, when I can't depend on any support against the Obama steamroller from the conservative end of the spectrum cause of this bullshit, no more than I could depend on Kuchinich to stand up for my second amendment rights - you think I *like* being left swinging in the breeze cause the folks that might be helpful are too goddamn stupid to cut loose the deadweight of folks so wrapped up in petty hatred that they enrage anyone they speak to, like Bolton did down at the UN ?
(IMHO, that specifically was the *stupidest* move that administration ever made, bar none.)

Anyhows, maybe you better think it through before assuming my intentions on a thing, provided you can step six inches past the partisanship that is blinding you and so many to the cliff right before you.

And if not, well, I'll be happy to give you a little nudge to show you the way.

-Frem

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Friday, February 12, 2010 5:29 PM

CHRISISALL

Kirkules, slapped down hard & crying like a little girl.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, February 12, 2010 5:50 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Kirkules, slapped down hard & crying like a little girl.

The laughing Chrisisall

Boot to the head ha ha

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Friday, February 12, 2010 6:58 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Boys, boys....

There are two questions to ask:
(1) Is Rappy a brain-dead moron? Yes, mostly. Does he ignore facts, logic, and common sense? Typically.

(2) Does he "deserve" to be hounded? Well, er, maybe not.

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Friday, February 12, 2010 7:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Boys, boys....

There are two questions to ask:
(1) Is Rappy a brain-dead moron? Yes, mostly. Does he ignore facts, logic, and common sense? Typically.

(2) Does he "deserve" to be hounded? Well, er, maybe not.

If anyone is a brain dead moron, it's those who can't come up w/ a better insult than " conservatives r stoopid ".

Deserves ? If you're willing to lie about what I say, who are you to say WHAT I deserve ?

In 10,000 yrs, what difference will any of this make ?

None.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:07 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Boys, boys....

There are two questions to ask:
(1) Is Rappy a brain-dead moron? Yes, mostly. Does he ignore facts, logic, and common sense? Typically.

(2) Does he "deserve" to be hounded? Well, er, maybe not.

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Friday, February 12, 2010 8:33 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

[typing this with a pounding headache]
While all the "mature adults" are in here dickin' about, there are actual events being neglected. This thread stopped being funny 50 posts ago.

A brave athlete died an easily preventible death today, on international TV, and the wordy people of this site can't seem to find the time to care.

Kwicko, Chrisisall, Niki, Fremd, *Gino, I usually agree with whatever you guys/gals say, but All of your stocks are dropping in my book.

I know you all are trying to confine Rappy to this thread, but from here it looks like it's working both ways.

*ETA

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Friday, February 12, 2010 9:26 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
[typing this with a pounding headache]
While all the "mature adults" are in here dickin' about, there are actual events being neglected. This thread stopped being funny 50 posts ago.

A brave athlete died an easily preventible death today, on international TV, and the wordy people of this site can't seem to find the time to care.

Kwicko, Chrisisall, Niki, Fremd, I usually agree with whatever you guys/gals say, but All of your stocks are dropping in my book.

I know you all are trying to confine Rappy to this thread, but from here it looks like it's working both ways.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

The incident is being investigated by the police, the Olympic Committee, and the international Luge association...

I'm willing to give them a day or two to hear what they have to say before I pass judgment on them.

As for this thread, I find it amusing

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Oh horseshit, Kirk ole boy.

Conservative opposition there is with half a brain, ...lunatics ...rabid lunatics ...look like monsters...a bunch of rabid, intolerant, racist ignoramuses ...goons ...the meanest, dumbest, nastiest of the bunch ... bucktoothed redneck lynch mobbers who hate anything that isn't them ?...*stupidest*

You truly are delusional Frem, but thanks for the help making my point.

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Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Kirkules, slapped down hard & crying like a little girl.

The laughing Chrisisall

Of course if this had been posted by a conservative the standard response would be "so you think slapping little girls is a good thing". You're usually a pretty creative guy Chris, but your Kwicko imitation really sucks.

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Saturday, February 13, 2010 9:43 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Of course if this had been posted by a conservative the standard response would be "so you think slapping little girls is a good thing".

Prolly true. And unfair.

Quote:
If anyone is a brain dead moron, it's those who can't come up w/ a better insult than " conservatives r stoopid ".

Not "conservatives", Rappy.

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Saturday, February 13, 2010 9:55 AM