Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995 by AURaptor

America loves a winner!

.....still waiting...

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:30 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

That's the problem with Eco Nazis.

Everyone should lay down and die except them.

Quote:
"Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."
-Georgia Guidestones

http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/12/georgia-guidestones-vand
alized/

WOLVERINES!

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:31 AM

America loves a winner!

continues to wait......

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

UK Daily News, eh? Some other "pertinent stories from that source:

Quote:
Revealed: BBC scriptwriters tried to use Doctor Who to bring down Margaret Thatcher

Spray version of 'cuddle hormone' can ease symptoms of autism

Labour accused of planning 'secret 10% death tax' in new row over elderly care

Oh, and regarding the wave that swept over people at the Half Moon Bay surfing contest I posted:

Quote:
Horror as 15 people are injured after rogue wave swept them away at U.S. surfing contest

Hoooo-kay! Now we know where you get your "news"...watch FauxNews a lot, do we? You're a waste of racist space, PN...a mind is a terrible thing to waste, but in your case...not so much.

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:34 AM

America loves a winner!

And THERE it is!

Step 1.

Denial!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511701.stm

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 1:10 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

You could've started with the more neutral link, rather than the right-wing spun one from the hysteria-prone Daily Mail.

Heads should roll

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:57 PM

KIRKULES

The “hard science” that many have cited is starting to fall apart under serious scrutiny by scientists without an agenda. The Nobel award wining study that Rue and I were debating the other day has run into more questions. Turns out that the “typo” in the report that exaggerated the melting of Himalayan glaciers is irrelevant because the there was no science even done to establish the claim. The claims and “typo” came from transcribing an article from a backpacking magazine that relied on anecdotal evidence from hikers to make their conclusions. There was not only no “hard science”, there was no science period.

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:13 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
You could've started with the more neutral link, rather than the right-wing spun one from the hysteria-prone Daily Mail.

Heads should roll

With how AGW has been shoved down our collective throat, there's no such thing as enough hysteria.

High and low, across the land, get the word out....

bad science should not be the basis for political policy. Locally or globally.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:21 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

bad science should not be the basis for political policy.

Neither should bad intelligence.

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:25 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

bad science should not be the basis for political policy.

Neither should bad intelligence.

damn skippy.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:36 PM

Our climate is not changing. Food production is not threatened. Fish are as abundant as ever. Pollution is having no effect upon the Earth. The Amazon jungle is irrelevant. The Eskimos are an alarmist group. Polar bears are over-rated. Whales suck. Nucular waste BELONGS in the ocean.
The Human Race is immortal.
'Rappy is always correct.

You can go about your business.
Move along. Move along.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:58 PM

America loves a winner!

Chrissy

Way to toss everything but the kitchen sink into the salad of issues you want to lay at the feet of global warming.

And this has nothing to do w/ me.

I didn't write the story.

I didn't say there's been no warming in the past 15 years. That was Professor Jones.

Same goes w/ admitting the Medieval warming period.

Prof. Jones, not I.

Address the issue w/ him, and deal w/ the facts. Fretting over what I say isn't going to change anything.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 8:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy

Way to toss everything but the kitchen sink into the salad of issues you want to lay at the feet of global warming.

Sorry, did I offend you douchebag sensitivities?

Go and be black & white concerning gray areas; in a hundred years, who's gonna care?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 14, 2010 10:31 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Our climate is not changing. Food production is not threatened. Fish are as abundant as ever. Pollution is having no effect upon the Earth. The Amazon jungle is irrelevant. The Eskimos are an alarmist group. Polar bears are over-rated. Whales suck. Nucular waste BELONGS in the ocean.
The Human Race is immortal.

Funny little bit related vaguely to this:

Was continuing a discussion with someone about the whole "what if we do meet aliens, and they don't like us" line of thought, and I pointed out a simple way to forestall aggression of that type - honesty.

"Lookahere you bug eyed menace, we humans make war for FUN, we fling primitive fission weapons at each other on our own surface, poison the biosphere to weed out the weak, and nailed our own god to a STICK!

Oh and did I mention just HOW MUCH of our planetary production capacity goes into weapons ?

Not to mention a hefty chunk of our entertainment revolves around kicking the everliving crap out of some alien menace despite it being numerically and technologically superior, and we got a million ideas on how to do it, so if I was you, I'd get my ass back to the mothership, and get very, very FAR away from this place while praying to whatever gods YOU have that we wipe ourselves out before we get around to bringing you the joyful presents of the military-industrial-complex to YOU for the holidays!"

Heh, that said, I figure even if we try to sugar-frost it, our first contact is gonna wind up with the others fleeing in terror from the crazy apes at whatever speed they're capable of...

-F

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Monday, February 15, 2010 12:48 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy

Way to toss everything but the kitchen sink into the salad of issues you want to lay at the feet of global warming.

Sorry, did I offend you douchebag sensitivities?
Go and be black & white concerning gray areas; in a hundred years, who's gonna care?

Just setting the record straight, is all.

Quote:

Our climate is not changing. Food production is not threatened. Fish are as abundant as ever. Pollution is having no effect upon the Earth. The Amazon jungle is irrelevant. The Eskimos are an alarmist group. Polar bears are over-rated. Whales suck. Nucular waste BELONGS in the ocean.
The Human Race is immortal

The climate is ALWAYS changing
Food production has gone up dramatically, and would go up even more, were the temps to rise.
Fish likely ARE being over harvested.
Polluted river have caught fire , in the past. Not so much these days. But more needs to be done, obviously.
Many of the old growth forest areas are being mismanaged.
Polar Bears are doing just fine, thank you.
Whales suck and blow, actually.
Nukular waste - not in my back yard!

I tend to agree w/ ya on Humans.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:23 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Just last week NASA issued its' own report on temperature, and their report says that the last decade was the hottest on record...that's NASA saying it, not some dubious global-warming-as-religion disciples. NASA's report cannot be brushed aside.

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:07 AM

Waiting...

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:08 AM

Quote:
Polluted river have caught fire , in the past. Not so much these days.

And why is that?

Quote:
But more needs to be done, obviously.

By whom?

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:54 AM

JAMERON4EVA

Think you did Chris. What bout the middle area Rappy? Hmmm..both sides are f$#@ up, and that's it. They just want one thing, voters. Sides,who's gonna trust a fool Like Gore anyway. He came up with MANBEARPig.

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:57 AM

JAMERON4EVA

This comming from a companyt that caused TWO, count them TWO major accidents by not properly maintaning the shuttles. And TWO seperate crews of SEVEN died as a result. Can we really trust their judgement on shit.

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Monday, February 15, 2010 5:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JAMERON4EVA:
Think you did Chris. What bout the middle area Rappy? Hmmm..both sides are f$#@ up, and that's it. They just want one thing, voters. Sides,who's gonna trust a fool Like Gore anyway. He came up with MANBEARPig.

WhoZit? Is that you?

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Monday, February 15, 2010 6:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Food production has gone up dramatically, and would go up even more, were the temps to rise.

Hey, there may be a useful discussion here!
I meant that our food production could very possibly be disrupted in a big way by climate change, not that it's not at a high point.
Oranges freeze in Florida, crops turn to dust in the mid-west, a *little* more of a shove from mother nature, & I believe we could have rationing in our not-too-distant future...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 6:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

How about a more neutral link, like... say... National Geographic? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_war
ming.html

The facts are that glaciers all over the world are melting faster than before. Siberia is turning into the Land of a Million Lakes as the permafrost melts. Glacier National Park has almost no glaciers anymore. Arctic ice is gone in the summer. The ice shelf on Greenland is thinning rapidly, and the ice shields in the Antarctic are calving faster than ever. Average temperatures HAVE gone up considerably... and this is according to data NOT buried on someone's desk in a pile of papers.

Yes, earth's temperature goes up and down, all on its own. All you have to do is look at the relatively recent history of glaciation to know that.

But two things to consider... all scientists know that when you have ice in a bowl of well-stirred water, the temperature of the water doesn't change. It's called an "ice bath", and is used to calibrate thermometers. As long as you still have a LITTLE bit of ice left, the water temperature remains the same. But once the ice goes, the temperature rises quickly. This is because the "heat of fusion" of water is very high... it takes 80,000 times MORE energy to melt ice than to raise it one degree C.

As hubby pencil-whipped, the amount of energy that it takes to melt one kg of ice would raise the temperature of that same kg of water 80,000 degrees. Or, looking at it another way, melting one kg of ice would raise the temperature of 80000 kg of water 1 deg C.

In other words, once the ice is gone, expect temperatures to rise very very quickly.

Also, the carbon dioxide content of the atmo HAS gone up. It's a physical, undeniable measurement. And carbon dioxide IS a greenhouse gas... ALSO a well-established, undeniable measurement.

Physics doesn't lie, and the physics is pointing to disaster. If you use your brains... your "logic and reason"... and follow the energy flows, a back-of-the-envelope calculation will tell you everything you need to know.

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Monday, February 15, 2010 7:20 AM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

Personally, I see no sense in the debate regarding global warming. We treat Planet Earth like a box of cigarettes. A smoker will spend wasted years worrying about the state of his health and finally plucks up the courage for a medical check-up.He will get the all clear,and based on that will then feel invincible and carry on smoking,regardless of the common sense knowledge that they really aren't good for you.
Similarly, we generally worry about our little planet, but as soon as someone tells us it's all in hand and the Earth is still in good health we are all of a sudden indesructible and should carry on not giving a shit.
Well there is no debate to be had.Just because folk have been proved wrong on their fatalistic predictions don't make what we're doing right.It really ain't healthy and we all know it.Might never happen, but why ignore the very real possibility?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Monday, February 15, 2010 7:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think you summed it up nicely, Peacekeeper, and concisely as well.

As to food production being up, where is Frem (it WAS you Frem, wasn't it?) to talk about just how fucked up our food-production system IS and what the future holds for it. I seem to remember you being rather eloquent and scientific on the subject.

I love the cigarette analogy (especially being one of those precisely like you described, except I know I have a bit of a death wish going...). It's right on target.

We've always been a polluting species, we've just grown in numbers so much that it IS having a global effect, which will only get worse if we delude ourselves everything's okay and go on as we are.

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Monday, February 15, 2010 11:24 AM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

Oh and by the way Rappy,not that I have any axe to grind with you,but weren't you the one that instigated a broadsheet sized thread banging on about how you weren't participating in RWED anymore.Sort of reminds me of a certain deceased royal princess that wanted to stay out of the limelight, but ended up being the focus of attention because of it. I actually think that was a clever move, but i will forever know you as Princess Diana. You certainly divide the audience into distinct polarities.lol

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Monday, February 15, 2010 11:42 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Food production has gone up dramatically, and would go up even more, were the temps to rise.
Hey, there may be a useful discussion here!
I meant that our food production could very possibly be disrupted in a big way by climate change, not that it's not at a high point.
Oranges freeze in Florida, crops turn to dust in the mid-west, a *little* more of a shove from mother nature, & I believe we could have rationing in our not-too-distant future...

The laughing Chrisisall

And you falsely assume that a *little* shove from mother nature would send things towards the bad end of the scale.

If things got colder, then yes.... there'd be less crop production. But I'm guessing that's not the direction you were getting at, is it?

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Monday, February 15, 2010 11:44 AM

America loves a winner!

peacekepper,

If it annoys you that I'm here, then I'm doing something right.

I was gone for over a year, so I guess your memory is pretty good.

Not that it matters one iota on the topic of global warming. I just love skewering the tightly held beliefs of those who have bought into the cult, and watching them squirm.

It's the furious yet futile acts of denial.... " But...but..but NASA SAYS SO !! " That mean the most.

Good to see ya again. Hope all is well.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Monday, February 15, 2010 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And you falsely assume

See? This says it.
Try to have a conversation with this guy...
F**k you, a**hole.

The had-it-with-this-moron-laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 12:01 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I believe we could have rationing in our not-too-distant future.

Chrisisall

And I don't subscribe to that view.

"F**k you, a**hole" right back at ya ?

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And I don't subscribe to that view.

But for no discernible reason other than it fits into you comfort zone, and it *seems* to be the right wing authoritarian establishment view.

And you accuse me of "falsely assuming"...

I was correct before, you're just here to f**k around. Kwicko is entirely justified in calling you a troll. Indeed, I now join him enthusiastically.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Not that it matters one iota on the topic of global warming. I just love skewering the tightly held beliefs

Then why not skewer some of your own?

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:09 PM

In regard to 'RAPtroll, let him eat static.

The Khanish Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
As to food production being up, where is Frem (it WAS you Frem, wasn't it?) to talk about just how fucked up our food-production system IS and what the future holds for it. I seem to remember you being rather eloquent and scientific on the subject.

Frem was busy trying to get the jingoistic, racist, intolerant asshats up the chain of command at our so-called "security" agencies to not fuck with our solar panel shipment, twas a very frustrating day.

I think it mighta been Siggy on the food production system, cause my primary bent and knowledge lean towards how much of it is toxic, rather than production, hell, till this week I didn't know soil PH mattered a whole lot!

But that's ok, cause I know a whole bloody lot of farmers around here way better at that than me, and my mechanical knowhow is always available in exchange for food.

And really, poke at the roots of any american family tree and you'll find a buncha farmers, we grow shit, it's what we do best, and even a crackbrained suburbanite can give the DEA fits over what can be grown in a basement, so if we really had the will, we could feed the planet from here.

As for the whole global climate debate, again, two principles.

Don't trash your living space.
Waste not, want not.

Simplest way to cut to the chase, that.

-F

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:49 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And I don't subscribe to that view.

But for no discernible reason other than it fits into you comfort zone, and it *seems* to be the right wing authoritarian establishment view.

And you accuse me of "falsely assuming"...

I was correct before, you're just here to f**k around. Kwicko is entirely justified in calling you a troll. Indeed, I now join him enthusiastically.

The laughing Chrisisall

*right wing authoritarian establishment view * ??? WTF does any of that have to do with anything ?

Your claim that there will be food shortages , presumably because of the fictitious global warming, has no basis in fact.

The burden of proof is yours to make , not mine to explain how it can't be valid. Until you present ANY evidence which shows otherwise, I side w/ the facts. All of human history has episodes of famine and crop failure. Your challenge is to show how, specific to the past couple of hundred years, man kinds's activities will in any way lead to a change in the climate which will result to even worse food shortages.

Kwickie IS the troll, and has zero justification in calling me or anyone else one. That you decide to join in on his reindeer games, only goes to say what your true motives are here, which aren't to exchange anything but childish insults.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I side w/ the facts.

Ah... a joke... is... a story, with a humorous climax.

The Vulcan Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 1:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
peacekepper,

If it annoys you that I'm here, then I'm doing something right.

I was gone for over a year, so I guess your memory is pretty good.

Not that it matters one iota on the topic of global warming. I just love skewering the tightly held beliefs of those who have bought into the cult, and watching them squirm.

It's the furious yet futile acts of denial.... " But...but..but NASA SAYS SO !! " That mean the most.

Good to see ya again. Hope all is well.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

... and there it is: Step One - DENIAL.

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I believe we could have rationing in our not-too-distant future.

Chrisisall

And I don't subscribe to that view.

"F**k you, a**hole" right back at ya ?

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

Because YOU falsely assume that if the temperature nudged upward, there'd be MORE food production.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:01 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Back to your thread TROLL

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

YOU falsely assume that if the temperature nudged upward, there'd be MORE food production.

LOL. Mike, I see we've switched places here; I'm so effing sick of RAPtroll's shit, I find it hard to be civil. You at least can get off a sentance without an expletive.
Funny world, eh?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:05 PM

Quote:

Kwickie IS the troll, and has zero justification in calling me or anyone else one. That you decide to join in on his reindeer games, only goes to say what your true motives are here, which aren't to exchange anything but childish insults.

For the record, I didn't call you a troll. I called you a pedophile, but only because I have evidence to back up that claim.

And who was it who started a WHOLE THREAD entirely devoted to hurling childish insults because you got called on the childish insults you hurled in the past?

Oh yeah, that would be YOU, ya creepy pedophile.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

YOU falsely assume that if the temperature nudged upward, there'd be MORE food production.

LOL. Mike, I see we've switched places here; I'm so effing sick of RAPtroll's shit, I find it hard to be civil. You at least can get off a sentance without an expletive.
Funny world, eh?

The laughing Chrisisall

I laid out a scenario with Niki, by which we could just collectively start our own "ignore" feature, and simply refuse to even acknowledge him. Not "refuse to engage" or "refuse to argue" or "refuse to be drawn into his name-calling", but REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE'S HERE OR THAT HE POSTED ANYTHING. We just carry on with the conversation like he never even said a word.

Just a thought. But I think we'd have to get a whole bunch of people signed on for it to work.

Otherwise, just keep snarking the living shit out of every single thing he posts in RWED. Or in any of the other areas, for that matter.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

I laid out a scenario with Niki, by which we could just collectively start our own "ignore" feature, and simply refuse to even acknowledge him. Not "refuse to engage" or "refuse to argue" or "refuse to be drawn into his name-calling", but REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE'S HERE OR THAT HE POSTED ANYTHING. We just carry on with the conversation like he never even said a word.

Let him eat static- for real?
Let's do it.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:25 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I laid out a scenario with Niki, by which we could just collectively start our own "ignore" feature, and simply refuse to even acknowledge him. Not "refuse to engage" or "refuse to argue" or "refuse to be drawn into his name-calling", but REFUSE TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT HE'S HERE OR THAT HE POSTED ANYTHING. We just carry on with the conversation like he never even said a word.

I vote for that one. Seriously, the guy is so dishonest, yet manages to get every thread tied up in his BS so that nothing useful gets discussed. I'm guessing that's really why he's here, not for any exchange of ideas, but to make himself feel important.

I'm all for imposed non-importance. And I can do that now - as of today I have home internet woo-hoo!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, February 15, 2010 2:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I'm all for imposed non-importance. And I can do that now - as of today I have home internet woo-hoo!

So, to continue in earnest, how do you think food production might suffer in this era of climate change?
Personally, I fear that crop failure (particularly in the third world) poses a definite threat.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0601/06010302/
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0601/06010302/

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:08 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

I think some of the problems might be mitigated if we are smart about it...

Might need to change what crops go in where due to the alterations in the growing season and available irrigation. ( a problem in the third world, as they stick to traditional crops )

Might have to monitor the growing season very carefully to determine when to plant, when to harvest, etc

May need to go heavy on encouraging farmers to put in windbreaks to prevent soil erosion ( here in Canada the gov has a program that gives away saplings and bushes to accomplish this, put in 200 last year at my Dads place )

Maybe have more dugouts and cisterns to save more water from spring into summer, we are getting enough snow in some places...

I am always more worried about lack of water due to where I live, but persistent rain at the wrong time can screw you too... and alot less you can do about that one

Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:08 PM

America loves a winner!

The trolls, Chrissy, are you and the band of school girls who are so overly full of yourselves to delve in anything remotely resembling level headed, above board discussion.

You're doing what you ALWAYS do in these threads... .. toss out lame insults and ad hominems, run from the issue at hand, and pad the # of replies w/ inane, childish and then call anyone who doesn't buy into your petty school yard taunts a " troll " , as you perpetuate the very act you accuse others.

insult, refresh! insult, refresh! insult, refresh !!!

Truly, you've turned this into Troll Country, part deux.

Me stating the facts, as I so often do, doesn't in the least bit change a thing.

Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs

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Monday, February 15, 2010 3:17 PM