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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
WTF ?


why hassle the Amish ?


by definition, they want to be left alone right ?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

You think that's nuts ?

The Unlikely Orchid Smuggler: A Case Study in Overcriminalization
http://www.heritage.org/research/legalissues/lm0044.cfm

Also Highly Reccommended.
Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556

Just more evidence that the real source of crime, misery and terrorism is our so-called "protectors", who wind up more brutal and less efficient than a mafia protection racket, whether it be the legalized extortion of "insurance", or the legalized terrorism of "law enforcement", it's really all the same...

What are your chances, personally, of ever MEETING, much less being aggressed upon, by a foreign terrorist ?
About Jack Shit.

What are your chances, personally, of ever meeting or being agressed upon by one of those so-called protectors ?
100%

So, when you think about it in terms of threat assessment, we oughta be bombing Langley and Quantico, yes ?

-F

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Originally posted by Storymark:
The Amish have phones?

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Originally posted by out2theblack:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
The Amish have phones?

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Some do...Doesn't necessarily make them part of the 'English' world...There are various levels of tolerance for some minor tech items among the Amish and Mennonite communities.

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
My wife puts it another way


They are not allowed to hassle drug corporations anymore so they need to justify their jobs by hassling someone else instead...

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Branch Davidians just wanted to be left alone , also...

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Originally posted by Storymark:
The Amish have phones?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
The Amish have phones?

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The Hutterites are pretty cool that way, they actually make use of tech, but in a way that attempts to reduce it's dehumanizing impact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterite

And while pacifistic to a high degree in the soldiering/warfare sense, at least one of the communities I am aware of is armed to the freakin teeth after the El Dorado incident, since if they ever DO find themselves at loggerheads with the powers-that-be, neither cooperation nor surrender seem good ideas to them.

Really though, they're actually some seriously cool folk if you don't provoke them, and they're right damned good at agriculture, as well as some lower-tech manufacturing since they approach the job wholeheartedly with a craftsmans eye for it.

They're actually the closest thing Christianity has to an Anarchist collective, and despite me having some strong issues with that belief system, one of the few factions of such where I actually *like* the people from it.

I no longer deal with them directly since we're both aware of just HOW "corrupting" my mere presence seems to be even if I utter not a word, but they're good people.

As for the FDA - that does seem to be a case of blindly reinforcing a defeat, doesn't it ?

-F

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Dan said, “This is a private farm, I do not sell anything to the public.”

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Rainbow Acres is a small family farm located in Lancaster County. Our goal is to live in harmony with nature. This means having our animals out in the fresh air and sunshine, eating green grass.

Due to our children still being small we specialize mostly in dairy products, including butter, heavy cream, and raw milk cheese. Our herd consists of Jersey and Normande cows, seasonal production. They are 100% grassfed. We also have a limited amount of beef and eggs.

We farm organically, but are not certified. We strive for high quality products at a reasonable price. Shipping available.

Rainbow Acres, Dan Allgyer, 26 South Kinzer Road, Kinzers PA 17535. (717) 442-0132.

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Illinois enacts license law for buggies

J.D. Wright
Daily Egyptian
11/17/05

Imagine a police officer calling in that he had just pulled over a brown quarter horse leading an old black buggy with the license plate number PHH 13987.

Now this can be possible. A new state law gives local officials the ability to tax and issue license plates for anyone with a buggy.

"I've never clocked a buggy," said Tim Shadwell, a police officer from Arcola. "They don't go very fast."

One reason the law was made an option for local law enforcers is that horses that draw buggies wear a type of horseshoe that tears up roads.

Even though it contradicts their whole lifestyle, Amish farmers seem to understand fully why they are being taxed.

"The horses seem to tear up the sides of the roads," said Conrad Wentzel, a Mennonite who works for the Illinois Amish Interpretive Center located in Arcola. "But everyone in the town is all right with the tax and they understand."

This is not the only law the Amish drivers had to face. About two decades ago, the Amish had to put a reflective triangle on the back of their buggies so that passing motorists would safely see them.

Illinois is just catching the trend of this law. Some counties in Indiana are required to have licenses on the back of their buggies. But the Amish in the town of Arcola do not seem to disagree with the law.

"The Amish bishop seems to feel positive about the whole experience," Wetzel said. "I know the Amish leaders of the town do too."

But does the license plate law in Illinois contradict the Amish way of life?

The Amish do wear homemade cloths and basically make everything they use. But the Amish are allowed to use modern technology under certain circumstances. For instance, if an Amish family owns a business, it is OK for them to have a phone, but the phone has to be outside the building, and they cannot have a phone in their home.

As for a car or motorized vehicle? Not likely. That is why they ride a horse and buggy.

But the license law helps to protect the safety and well being of the Amish community. Before, if someone got into an accident, the police would not know the person in the buggy or have any way to communicate with family members. With the licenses, police could scan the license and find out who exactly the person or persons are.

"I've dealt with buggies before, but only when they get into accidents. It's always with cars," Shadwell said. "As for the licenses on the buggies, it's a great idea."

http://newshound.de.siu.edu/online/stories/storyReader$5195

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Revisiting the Amish schoolhouse massacre: Passive police first responder policy — Who does it really protect?

Homicidal and suicidal psychopaths — Not the typical criminal

Fact: When a homicidal and suicidal predator enters an occupied school carrying a weapon, their murderous plan is now in motion and the outcome has a high probability of ending very badly.

The October 2nd, 2006 Amish schoolhouse massacre in Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania, is a textbook example showing how quickly and efficiently killing can commence in the presence of a closely established police containment perimeter.

The first notification of this developing massacre occurred after Roberts released everyone from the schoolhouse except ten young females. The teacher immediately ran to a neighboring farm and contacted 911. An Amish adult male from this farm, with his two large dogs, took the bold opportunity to stealthily approach the windowless back wall of the schoolhouse. Hoping for an opportunity to help the little girls, he slowly crept around one side of the wooden structure and positioned himself as an observer next to a side window. Upon reaching the double paned window, he noticed that the old-fashioned type blind was not pulled and this window was not barricaded.

Observing that the first police patrol vehicle to approach the scene was not slowing down to stop, the Amish man quickly withdrew from his strategic observational position and sprinted towards the roadway to wave down the trooper, who did a fast U-turn and parked. That would be the last successful attempt at an unnoticed move upon the building by anyone.

As unlikely as it sounds, Roberts may have been very surprised by the early arrival of police. The Amish are a passive and non-violent culture who often do not report crime or assist in criminal prosecutions. The items that this deranged individual brought into the schoolhouse were indicative that he expected to have a lengthy period of time to sexually molest these little girls.

Typical of armed school invaders, Roberts was steadily progressing towards the final chapter of his plan, mass murder then suicide. Not all patrol officers are taught that armed school invaders should immediately be considered and handled as weapons of mass destruction. The widespread use of the common descriptor "emotionally disturbed person" combined with the continued use of containment / negotiation tactics in the absence of active shooting confirms this obvious operational flaw.

More troopers arrived. A brave group of patrol officers formed-up and cautiously approached the schoolhouse. Roberts, obviously agitated, yelled for them to immediately leave or he would begin shooting. They partially complied with his demands by retreating, but not leaving. A police vehicle’s public address system was used to announce multiple pleas for him to throw out his weapons and come out with his hands up. Roberts again loudly ordered them to leave, or he would immediately shoot everyone.

Out of options

This psychopath had established full control and time was running out. The troopers on-scene sensed the tension and realized the girls’ situation was extremely precarious. Shooting could begin at any moment. SWAT takes a long time to arrive and this psychopath had shown absolutely no interest in negotiation. To make matters worse, the control of this volatile situation had seamlessly transitioned off-site command.

From this point forward any potential "window of opportunity" for resolution that could suddenly arise would need to be conveyed up the command chain for permission to react. Aggressive action against the intruder, short of hearing gunfire from within the school, would now take time and would require courage of leadership from a distant commander. Although all the troopers had been trained in "active shooter" procedures, they were not trained, authorized or equipped to conduct independent "Immediate Action Rapid Deployment" (IARD) tactics.

"Immediate Action Rapid Deployment" (IARD) is an underutilized concept in today’s policy heavy micromanaged patrol environment. This novel concept relies upon the officers on scene to use their ingenuity and courage to operate independently of off-site command and control during emergencies such as armed school invaders.

Homicidal and suicidal individuals kill fewer people while being hunted, pressured and pursued. Unable to focus full attention to the intended victims, the predators’ planned carnage is delayed by an active pursuit. When police ultimately close-in on a homicidal and suicidal individual, the predator usually rushes to commit suicide. Suicide by cop at this point sometimes occurs, but usually the ending is self-inflicted.

The longer this incident progressed, the higher up the chain of command the decision-maker was likely to be. More time was now required to make any decision, right or wrong — or worse yet, making no decision at all. The SWAT team was still a long way from Nickel Mines. Everyone but the psychopathic intruder was clearly out of options.

Before the shooting began, armed and ballistic shield equipped rescuers were mere yards away from the building. Yet they were immobilized by fear. Not the fear of being injured — these courageous troopers clearly proved when the shooting began that they had the stuff heroes are made of. The fear was traditional, institutional and political — originating at headquarters and administratively filtering down to the patrol level. Fear of failure, criticism and the potential for career damage all contribute to the establishment of passive public safety policy.

Timid command during times of crisis is easily hidden behind the fuzzy and noble label titled “officer safety concerns." Command indecision can be just as deadly as making a wrong decision. The results of making no decision offer the most political cover when a situation ends badly.

The specter of training-up and equipping patrol “cowboys” with the personal authority to run into schools with their “guns-blazing” gives heartburn to the toughest of career police administrators. Even when they know this is exactly the type of option that someday patrol may need to save innocent lives.

Everyone on scene hoped that the next wave of higher trained and better equipped officers would be arriving shortly. Although the armed and ready rescuers waiting outside were now being used as observers and conduits of information, they were still cocked and locked waiting for a command decision, or the sound of gunfire — whichever came first.

Permission denied

Suddenly and unexpectedly a child’s loud screaming was heard from within the schoolhouse. The rescuers immediately requested permission on the radio to approach the building. The answer to their urgent request came back -- permission denied.

Approximately twenty-five minutes after the first 911 call, a large anxious group of people was gathered nearby. More police personnel were arriving by the minute. In addition to the schoolhouse perimeter, troopers also manned an outer staging area to shield the already waiting medical personnel, worried friends and family from possible gunfire. County and state police dispatchers were desperately attempting to open a line of communication with Roberts to begin negotiations.

A Herculean effort to prevent injury or death to just one innocent sometimes results in the loss of many. This new breed of predator does not play by traditional rules. Negotiation, surrender and escape are not options. Time works in their favor.

The large "show of force” established just outside meant absolutely nothing to the psychopath in control on the inside. All that mattered to Roberts was completing his evil plan.

The massacre

The shooting began. Ten heroic troopers instantly reacted to the sound of rapid gunfire by bravely moving towards the building. Roberts, probably attempting to slow their progress, fired at least one round, and maybe more, in the direction of the rescuers.

As the first ballistic shield bearing trooper in line reached a window, the gunfire suddenly ended. The monstrous coward had predictably killed himself as these courageous troopers gained close proximity.

The final tally? All ten girls shot. Five killed instantly. One remains in a coma. And four girls, although disfigured, have thankfully fully recovered from their gunshot wounds. The prompt medical assistance and airlift capability prearranged by these selfless professionals was instrumental in saving the lives of five little girls.

Tears, awards and fear of future visitors

In the aftermath of the Amish schoolhouse massacre, state police representatives conduct seminars, reminding other law enforcement professionals that their officers heroically "did their best" and nothing more could have been done. They say it all happened way too fast. Roberts was a formidable and wily predator hell-bent on molesting and killing little girls and therefore was unstoppable. According to the rules of engagement on that fateful day, this is all true. He was unstoppable.

The massacre that occurred at the Amish schoolhouse was the fault of one deranged individual, Charles Carl Roberts, IV. Everyone else involved did their absolute best to save the lives of the schoolgirls. Heroism abounded and no one at the scene should ever be criticized for failure to perform as trained and expected. The fact that five girls survived is a testament to their efforts.

Recently, the ten troopers who had courageously approached the schoolhouse as wood splinters and bullets exploded off the exterior walls all received their department’s highest award for courage and bravery in the line of duty, the Medal of Honor.

http://www.policeone.com/police-products/tactical/ballistic-shields/ar
ticles/1290372-Revisiting-the-Amish-schoolhouse-massacre/

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Speakin of food...

Can any of you sciency-types make heads or tails of this one for me ?
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big
-fat-lie.html

It all sounds good, but I don't have the related background to know if they're fulla shit or not, and frankly it reads a little more like advertisement than research, so a "bullshit percentage" would be helpful here.

Just cause I don't buy the FDAs lies about what constitutes "healthy" (based on the ravings of known lunatic Everett Koop) doesn't mean imma buy someone elses just cause they *not* the FDA, that's a friggin boobytrap if there ever was one.

-F

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
F= Federal
D= Douchbag
A= Asswipes

Paid thugs & corporate sockpuppets.

Just my opinion.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

And once they set themselves on fire, they WERE left alone.

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
My dad and I used to peasant hunt on their land too

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Whatever. I eat what I crave, in moderation, and trust that years of evolution speak the truth. My body knows what it needs. It lets me know, I listen.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
My dad and I used to peasant hunt on their land too

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Whut?!

Hey man, we NEED those peasants, mind your bag limit!


-F

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... the primary reason why a consortium of scientists decided people evolved on the seashore is the requirement for a minium of 1 gram of omega-3 fats per day for proper brain development and function. This fat is normally not found in necessary quantities in a land-based diet - unless you eat the bone-marrow of grass-fed ruminants in large quantities.

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Originally posted by out2theblack:

'...Many people believe that David Koresh (or the Branch Davidians) were responsible for the deaths of the 74 men, women and children who died in the inferno at Waco on April 19, 1993. This is the story that the FBI put out. It is a lie.

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Originally posted by rue:
As SignyM pointed out, the food pyramid is not drawn up by scientists and dieticians - it's drawn up by people in agriculture who have a vested interest in you eating what they produce.

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My dad and I used to peasant hunt on their land too,

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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My dad and I used to peasant hunt on their land too,

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I really, really, REALLY hope you meant PHEASANT.

Otherwise, Dick Cheney's got nothing on you.



Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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