This is close to my heart. I suspect Kochak, the husky pup I bought, to have come from a puppy mill--a small one, only 20-some dogs, but they don't show..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Could pet store ban curb puppy mills?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 07:22
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Monday, February 22, 2010 9:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


This is close to my heart. I suspect Kochak, the husky pup I bought, to have come from a puppy mill--a small one, only 20-some dogs, but they don't show or participate in any other non-breeding activities, I discovered later advertise on the internet, and I wasn't allowed to see the kennel; all of which I found out are signs of a puppy mill.

Kochak is healthy and we adore her, but the realization that I might have bought from a non-reputable breeder made me search out ways to go after her. What I learned is that puppy mills are LEGAL throughout the country, licensed businesses, and unless there is abuse discovered, allowed to breed dogs by the thousands to sell to pet stores. Only the USDA can really go after them, and they're too busy with other things to bother except in extreme cases.

We may be crazy in California, but we've also been on the forefront of many good things, and I think this is the beginning of one such thing (excerpts):
Quote:

West Hollywood Bans Sale Of Puppy Mill Dogs & Kitty Factory Cats

West Hollywood passed the ordinance prohibiting the sale of dogs and cats in pet stores.

Nobody, however, expected the ordinance to pass by acclamation without debate after endorsement by the head of the national Humane Society’s D.C office, the Mayor Pro Tem of Yucaipa (also the chief Veterinarian for Riverside County) and a South Tahoe resident who helped pass the first such ban in that city.

The new ordinance prohibits the sale of all dogs and cats at companion animal stores, providing exemptions for humanely bred, reared or sheltered animals. The law provides a period for stores to adjust to the new law.

Jeffrey Prang, who with the help of the Legal Animal Defense Fund and Companion Animal Protection Society (CAPS) wrote the bill, thanked the crowd for coming out to support the measure and acknowledged Wehoan Carole Raphaelle Davis, local CAPS president as the “tireless advocate against puppy mills…” who brought the issue to his attention a year ago.

CAPS has been actively protesting puppy mill retailers in and around West Hollywood, successfully convincing several store owners to switch from puppy or kitty mill animal sales to rescue or breeder sales.

One of those stores, Elite Animals of West Hollywood, agreed to change its business model this past year after weeks of protests outside the store.

Only weeks after that victory, though, CAPS protesters became victims of a still-unsolved assault, with a sniper allegedly firing a pellet gun at and hitting three members of the group protesting a Santa Monica pet store (see WeHo Protesters Shot At Puppy Mill Action). No one was injured in the attack.

Just as “my shoes are made in a shoe factory, pets are made in a pet factory,” said Ms. Davis Monday night, then calling West Hollywood a “model for the nation” for leading the way in acknowledging the evidence of animal abuse by mass-breeders and acting to stop it.

“This step signals the end of puppy mills,” she declared. “You’re making history for the animal protection movement tonight, and I am so proud.”

The first public speaker of the evening, Yucaipa Mayor Pro Tem Allan Drusys, also Chief Veterinarian for the County of Riverside, drove in to speak because, “the potential abuse of animals at puppy mills makes us all ill.

Second up came the President and CEO of the Humane Society, Wayne Pacelle, who flew in from its national headquarters in Washington D.C. to help bring a national spotlight to the cause.

“I’m awfully glad to be here to support your legislation. It’s foresighted and important,” he said. “There are more than 10,000 puppy mills that breed dogs like cash crops,” supplying the nation’s retailers.

The animals are confined to a life of incessant breeding, confined, exposed to the elements,” he charged, “and they’re turning out puppies for the pet trade at the same time animal shelters and rescue groups are struggling to contend with the problem of too many animals and too little space – and there’s too much euthanasia that’s resulting.”

The leader of the nation’s largest, and arguably best known, animal protection group called the city’s measure an attempt “to harmonize the situation by keeping the puppy mill dogs out of the community,” said Mr. Pacelle, declaring, “you’re sending a great message, and we’re watching it nationwide.”

Dawn Armstrong, formerly of West Hollywood, came down from South Lake Tahoe, which she said created “the first known such ban in March 2009,” to encourage the city’s passage of the ordinance.

Pointing out WeHo’s pioneering cat de-clawing ban of 2005, she said, “The city of West Hollywood has the eye of the media and the power to impact the rest of the country, if not the world, with the vote taken tonight.”

South Lake Tahoe’s ordinance may have been the first in the nation to pass, but West Hollywood’s ordinance will take effective before that one, in September, 2010; Lake Tahoe’s stores have until May, 2011 to come into compliance.

He said, “LCA has been fighting puppy mills for many years and have had quite a few successes… and we want the whole country to adopt your policy.”

The only speaker to toss cold water on the jubilation and congratulations was Wehoan Tim Raza, who declaimed what he called “the fanaticism” of the pet adoption agencies on the issue, saying he felt prohibition never works as well as regulation.

“There should be much more regulation [of puppy mills] and a more consumer-oriented approach followed through regarding the practices,” he said.

http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php?articleID=4432

Please, never buy from a pet store; adopt or find a reputable breeder. Even most show kennels sell purebred "pets" (cannot be bred, or resulting puppies cannot be shown, so price is less) cheaper than pet stores do most of the time anyway.




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Monday, February 22, 2010 9:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


By the way, Petland is one of the largest pet store chains to buy from puppy mills. And we don't sell to them specifically for that reason. Heck, some of us even protest them on a regular basis.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 22, 2010 9:33 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Yanno, I've never had a "Pet Store" kitty save for Mischief, and she was dumped on them cause while she had everything else, her personality was wholly unsuitable for a showcat, so they fixed her and dumped her on the guy who ran the place.

Who gave her to me as a "rodent control system" when I expressed an unwillingness to use what I felt were inhumane means against the mice.

Every kitty since though, has been a rescuee from awful situations, particularly Kallista, Molly and Squirmy - Molly in fact was one of a pair, which were so bad off that the other one did not survive long enough to reach the doorstep, and it was touch and go for a bit even with her.

Actually the person who made the trip did not think either one would survive, but was counting on the rumor that if you got a kitty to my doorstep still kicking, no matter how bad off they are, they'll make it - she did look pretty awful, and considering the conditions she was rescued from, and how happy she is now (seriously, she'll wander around the kitchen "singing"!) I suspect SHE thinks she capped it and made it to kitty heaven.

I had trouble convincing the lady some months later that this was the same cat, cause she certainly looks none the worse for wear now!

-F

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Monday, February 22, 2010 9:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


All our animals have been rescues; the closest I got to buying was one of our rabbits from a pet store I do frequent, the owner of which I and his assistant manager have been trying to talk him out of selling for years. The rabbit was unsold and old enough that he was going to return her to the breeder...he let me have her half price. She's still more skittish to the day than any of the others. We rescued another from a yuppie family--I won't tell you about the conditions, they would make you sick. He has health problems because he was fed nothing but alfalfa, but he gets regular medication (tho' I had to have some teeth removed so have to chop his food up fine); they said they couldn't get him out of his cage without a towel because he was "vicious". He is the sweetest rabbit I've ever had, and never bitten anyone even once. Some people...

Jim's son carried on the tradition of rescuing; he brought two tiny kittens home from Texas once who were abandoned by the side of the road; he gave them to Jim's daughter and one is still fat and sassy in her old age to this day. We've rescued many and adopted a few; one pair of kittens wandered out of the forest while we were on a motorcycle camping trip; I brought them both back in the heat of Summer several hundred miles in the tank bag of my motorcycle!

I did purchase Tashi and Kochak, first animals I ever bought but that rabbit. I wanted to treat myself to a full husky just once before I die; rescue huskies are an iffy proposition (pups rarely are up for rescue) and there are too many wolf/husky crosses out there, which is ten times more iffy. Tashi came from a Canadian working kennel (not a fan of show dogs or breeders), they only sell pups they don't use to enhance their own pack. Kochak was a mistake for which I take full responsibility and will never forgive myself. Couldn't go back to Tashi's breeder and I rushed, not willing to wait for one of the local breeders to have a litter (they usually only have one or two a year, and getting a "pet" dog means waiting for one to be available). That is no excuse, I certainly would never do it again, after what happened, and will go back to adoption.



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Monday, February 22, 2010 9:48 AM

BYTEMITE


Three of the four cats I've ever owned were shelter cats. Last one I'm not sure about. We got him from a pet shop up in Idaho, back before we moved down here, and as far as I know the pet shop just bought litters from locals, since it was a big farming community. But maybe there were factory kitties there.

Boy Frem, I wish I had your abilities. Whenever I run across a sick or injured animal, I don't have any idea what I'm doing. They usually end up dying anyway, and never once have I ever felt like I'd done everything I could, that if I'd've done one thing different, they might have lived.

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Monday, February 22, 2010 9:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


We're very lucky; we have a really good rehab center for local wildlife right nearby. I volunteered there for years, and every injured animal I've ever found (except cats and dogs) I've taken there. Had the joy of releasing a fledgling jay (plus two others they'd brought in) just up the street from us. San Francisco SPCA has a "no kill" policy, one of the first in the nation and I've posted about it before; they do great work. T Bone Pickins hired an entire airplane to bring dogs here from Katrina and Marin's Humane Society ended up with the majority of them; I'm proud to say they found some of their original families and adopted out the rest.

I had a friend who died some time ago who was like you Frem; no humane society nearby, rural community in Illinois. She not only raided puppy mills, everyone knew to dump cats and dogs they found on her doorstep; like you, they knew she'd care for them. She took in an injured squirred once, built him a huge cage in her living room and said "to hell with visitors, if they don't like it, they needn't visit". My kinda woman! We met via her work saving a bald eagle habitat from a pork barrel project, and she went through hell for that in her community, even to the point of getting shot!



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Monday, February 22, 2010 12:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yup, all of my critters have been foundlings, and they all found ME. I put out a vibe, apparently, that brings hope to helpless animals.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 22, 2010 1:32 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


My puppy did come from a pet store...

My wife has allergy's and I wanted her to handle some dogs, to see her reactions to different breeds before we bought one. Labs with their coat don't set her off too badly, and we became attached to one particular puppy who happened to come in while we were there.


I was fortunate enough to meet the breeder, who happened to be there... and then went to their acreage and seen the mother, after he invited me.

They had two labs and usually do a litter a year,

they sell about half the litter, keep 3 or 4.

The three or four they keep until they are two, then they go to training( this program if I remember right )

http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/dogjobs/wrk_service.htm


They had 14 Labs on their farm when I visited, with kids and cats... well socialized. My dog was potty trained and had the beginnings of obedience training, just from being played with the way she was. The dogs had rooms in their heated barn ( no cages or kennels ) and a big corral that was chicken wired into a giant puppy run.

Retired folk, who love dogs... and wanted to help provide service dogs, as they have a relative who needs to have one. I guess to qualify they need dogs between two and three who have been socialized and trained a certain way, they said it is hard to give rescues the sort of training of this.

I guess my point is, not everyone who sells puppys through pet stores are bad. If I buy another lab, I would contact them directly...




Either you Are with the terrorists, or ... you Are with the terrorists

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers.
What you do today, might Burn Your Ass Tomorrow"

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Monday, February 22, 2010 4:38 PM

FREMDFIRMA



That's one ability I can't really explain though, I mean, I've always had an affinity for animals, since while my ability to emotionally connect with humans is weak at best, my ability on that level with animals is downright freaky.

One element of it that defies any rational explanation at all, is that if I can make physical contact with a person or animal, they'll calm down almost instantly, which made me REAL useful as a vets assistant, although I could never nerve myself to actually take up veterinary medicine cause I don't think I could perform surgery on an animal, I'm TOO empathetic to em to do so.

As Mikey suggests, I think it has more to do with some kind of "vibe" than actual skill in anything - I attract crows too, even though I do not, and never have, fed them, they just show up and start hanging out, which severely weirded out some folks at one of the conventions up here when I was sitting out in the enclosed courtyard and this HUGE friggin flock of em comes down out of nowhere, to my great amusement cause it was in the middle of Dave calling bullshit on the "attracts crows" story being told him by Melissa.

"Nope, I do NOT see this, this is NOT happenin, imma go get another drink, a big one!"

I dislike Llamas intensely though, they're the assholes of the animal kingdom.

-F

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Monday, February 22, 2010 5:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Three of the four cats I've ever owned were shelter cats. Last one I'm not sure about. We got him from a pet shop up in Idaho, back before we moved down here, and as far as I know the pet shop just bought litters from locals, since it was a big farming community. But maybe there were factory kitties there.

Boy Frem, I wish I had your abilities. Whenever I run across a sick or injured animal, I don't have any idea what I'm doing. They usually end up dying anyway, and never once have I ever felt like I'd done everything I could, that if I'd've done one thing different, they might have lived.



Byte, don't beat yourself up about it. If you showed them some care and love and they still died, they died in less a state of fear than if you hadn't been there. So theirs was a better death than it would have been otherwise.

My most recent cat, Rodger, turned up on my doorstep in the cold rain, tiny, *maybe* four weeks old, and you could see every bone in his body, right down to the individual vertebrae and his tiny little toe bones. I was 100% convinced that he was going to die, but we took him in anyway, and tried to make him comfortable as best we could, and I got him some natural foods and some kitten milk at the store, figuring he may as well die spoiled since he'd seen so damn little of the milk of human kindness this far into his young life.

That was two and a half years ago. He's now 13 pounds and thinks he owns the damn house. Chases the older cat, Peedie, all around the place, and pushes the dog, Jeepie, off the bed if she's in his way.

All I hoped to do was give Rodger a decent death; instead, he got a pretty decent life out of the deal! We both won on that one.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 22, 2010 6:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem: Not that I need to tell you, but BE NICE to the crows. Turns out they are fantastic at remembering faces, kindnesses, and... unkindnesses. You make a crow your enemy, and you have an enemy for life! Sounds like you've made them your friends, which is much preferable.

Where the vibe really gets freaky is when you can just talk to animals in a reasonable tone of voice - not shouting orders at them - and they actually LISTEN and do what you ask. That's fun.

My Jeepie gets stubborn about her food now and again; she'll decide she doesn't feel like eating, and I have to convince her. I've gotten to the point that I'll make a game out of it, hiding her food, or I'll just tell her, "If you empty your bowl, I'll give you three treats." That usually does the trick - she's reward-driven and wants to have a job to do.

And she'll bug me for every single one of those three treats, and when she gets the third, she leaves. I don't know how she knows, but she KNOWS.

We think we're smarter than they are. But who goes to work so we can afford to bring them the goodies to spoil them with? NOW who seems smarter? :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 22, 2010 6:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Gino: It sounds like you did it the right way.

I'd tend to put more trust in a smaller mom-n-pop pet store in such a case; it seems the big-box places like Petland are the main ones driving the industrial puppy mills. A small shop working with a known breeder shouldn't be a bad thing. And it's awesome that you were able to check the place out.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, February 22, 2010 7:25 PM

GINOBIFFARONI






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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Frem, I assume you’ve never watched “Dog Whisperer”? Cesar Milan does what people think is miraculous with dogs, but there’s no miracle to it, any more than there is for you. It’s “vibes”, all right. He’s always preaching “calm and assertive”—and no doubt that’s what you project. When he goes to help with a problem, it is ALWAYS the human(s) causing it with their anxiety, anger, fear, whatever, and once he trains them to be calm, THEY work the same “miracles” he does. Not sure whether the humans are more shocked by how their dogs behave perfectly almost the minute he takes them over, or that in the end THEY are able to do the same thing. So that’s what it is; animals rely far more on smell, body language, tone of voice, “vibe” and so much more than we realize. You’ve obviously got the Cesar Milan technique down to a ‘T’.

As to llamas, obviously you’ve never met a camel.

As to crows and ravens, what Mike said is 100% right on. I had a “rehab raven” for 14 years—that means she was taken in as a fledgling and too accustomed to humans; I turned loose she’d approach humans and get killed, so she needed a permanent home. We built an aviary off our dining room window. I could tell you stories...it was a real learning experience.

But one was my brother-in-law, Curt, who turned out to be a real asshole. After some 20 years of living with us off and on, losing jobs, major alcoholism (which he did get over, then switched to dope), and thinking he was my best friend, when Jim finally put his foot down and said he had to get a job and pay his own way, he packed up most of his stuff, left his cat behind, and we never saw him again.

Well, ‘Bo (so named because she sometimes had the personality of the birds in Hitchcock’s “The Birds”, filmed just North in Bodega Bay) took one look at him and hated him on sight. For years she’d go after him if at all possible; drove him nuts, ‘cuz he wanted to befriend her. One time she flew across the living room to where he was sitting, landed on his knee, jumped to his chest, grabbed his cig pack from his breast pocket and flung it in the air, grabbed his glasses from off his nose and flung THEM in the air, then flew away, all in the blink of an eye.

He would try to tease her with his keys through the wire; she got them every time and, since I knew she would and thought he was stupid, I wouldn’t get them—he had to don his motorcycle helmet to go in after them. He moved back to Idaho for several years; walked back in the house when he returned, ‘Bo took one look at him and went after him. They NEVER forget!

Ravens and crows are the brightest birds of the raptor family; they’re tool users and bright as hell. They had three or four at the rehab center where I volunteered. People would always be mystified because they swore they heard someone in the courtyard, but they couldn’t see anyone. Turns out there had been an old man who volunteered there who used to go around mumbling to himself. One of the ravens had learned to imitate him; swear to gawd, sounded for all the world like a human. Whether he did it to get attention or just to laugh at the stupid humans, I’ll never know!

Gino, I’m happy for you. Unfortunately, that is VERY rarely the story. Believe me, I know. I researched it in depth when I tried to go after the little puppy mill from which I got Kochak.

Bless you, Mike; you’re good people. I go out of my way to take injured animals to Wildcare, our local wildlife rehab; some survive, some don’t. But don’t pick up any injured squirrels, they’ve got a helluva bite! I did once, knowing to use my jacket, but he even bit me through THAT!

Anyone who is kind to animals, whether the animal dies or not, is good people in my book. We need as many good people as we can to offset the assholes out there who abuse them.

I agree about smaller pet shops, and the way you did it Gino is PRECISELY how we’re taught to buy from a breeder, whether they went through a pet store or not. As long as you check out the origins of the animal, you can ascertain for yourself...that was my mistake. Nonetheless, rural communities and farming communities—especially in the Midwest, is where there are the most puppy mills. So you never know, unless you bother to do what you did.




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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 1:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA



I guess so, but yanno, that doesn't explain the fact that the trick works on humans too - that's one of my best advantages when dealing with someone really bad off who's having a "moment", is that mere contact can start defusing it.

But I do think you're onto something there, most people, when someone in proximity to them starts freaking out, it starts freaking them out, like it's contagious or something, plenty of examples of that, from contagious fire to collective hysteria, but likely *because* I don't have so much of a connection in the normal way, I don't seem to be susceptible to it, they're transmitting on the wrong channel, you might say, see ?

So when contact is made, instead of reflecting and amplifying their panic, it just bounces off, and they cling to that like a drowning man to a raft, which allows them to let it go and start dealing.

With animals, it's a little different, not JUST that, but more spiritual, I mentioned this before in another thread - when I reach out on that level to them, there's something THERE, just beyond reach or perception like a current passing by, what I think is a collective... oh I dunno, eiwa, gaia, whatever the heck you wanna call it, but *something*, you understand ?

One of my associates says I can perceive it cause I am Kitsunetsuki, the western equivalent of which would be Fae touched, I guess - not that I believe her, but given my iconic hero worship of Reynard ever since childhood, I can see where she'd think it.

Might also explain why the birds take a shine to me, despite me being not fond of them, pyschopomps especially, like Corvids and Sparrows.

And yes, they're very clever, good mimics too, Melissa never cared for the fact that I taught them to make lewd noises at her, and some of the ones around here actually mimic sounds they've heard, which is kinda weird because at least one of em likes to make power-tool noises, which is damn disconcerting in the middle of the night given what my job is.

The funniest bit of that was her calling from work to screech at me for their misbehavior one day - they stole a bag of potato chips from a display rack, weren't even subtle about it, then carried it off behind the dumpster and dropped it a couple times, and when THAT didn't open it, started dropping rocks on it...

So she calls ME to complain ?
Her boss thought it hilarious, since they had it on the security cam tape, and told her "well, they do things like that" and she was being ridiculous, but it didn't stop me from having to hear about it, for weeks....
*eyeroll*

The bird rescue thing much later seems to have sealed the deal good and proper however, that's an interesting thread you'd find a joy to read, Niki.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34670
(the rescue story is about 3/4 down)

As a rule I consider animals a little smarter than people, in most of the ways that really matter.

-F

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:16 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup Frem; people feel vibes too, just I think more subconsciously...or maybe it's subconscious in animals, too, they just react, I dunno. But the priniciple is the same.

As to "fae", often bipolars pick up on things others don't...they say part one of the problems with bipolarity is that we get "too much input" and can't sort it. But I've heard more stories from bipolars about strange things--like waking up in the middle of the night, then hearing the next day that grandma died at exactly that time or something, and most of us are really good at "reading" people. So who knows? I've long held the belief that if we could just harness some of the things that WE consider a "disorder", it would expand the use of all those wasted brain cells we humans walk around with...

The ones I get a kick out of are mockers. They come around in Spring here, and man, they can mock ANYTHING! It's astonishing. The Stellars around here do a good raptor "scree"; they don't fool me anymore, but they used to.

The potato-chip story had me sitting here smiling and nodding my head "yup, yup, yup". Heard many like it...they're tool users for sure, and the stories of them dropping nuts on the roadway for cars to run over and break the shells are myriad.

I don't much care for birds, myself; almost every species is rasty--well, every WILD species anyway!



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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:18 PM

BYTEMITE


haha! She thinks you're fox and moon touched? Well, that DOES explain a lot. :D

And maybe part of my problem is that no one ever listens to me when I say we should take an injured animal to the vet. "But it was hit by a car! He's bleeding out his ears!" Well, no, being it was the car in front of us, what I saw was more like his head bounced off the side of the tire as it passed, through probably he did get a little scrambled, but his skull was intact. "We'll go on Saturday." Even though she's GETTING WORSE... "It's too expensive." ._.

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh indeed, in fact the lady thinks I *AM* Kami-Kitsune and just ducking being called on it, which given my Trickster nature and that I don't believe her, just convinces her even MORE every time I successfully dodge the bullet or point out flaws in her logic.

But then she's also got a serious crush on me, which means logic and reason don't necessarily apply, she's gonna believe what she wants anyways.

And I hear you on the stupidity and greed of humans, some years ago one of the rescuees I took in started displaying symptoms of FELV on a Tuesday, but when I took him to the vet, the vet threw a hissy and wanted cash up front, despite KNOWING I was good for the money, and despite all I could do in supportive care, Thunderkitty died Friday morning en route to the vet cause of that dickheaded greed - I'm still angry about it, and it was one of the reasons I decided to learn some veterinary medicine myself.

Squirmy is in fact a vet rescue kitty, she was hit by a car or something in a bad thunderstorm, and someone rescued her from near drowning on top of it and left her on a vets doorstep - the vet took pity on her and saved her, but she lost her back-right leg.

Thing is, normally a "defective" animal being impossible to get adopted, they put them down, but they just couldn't do it, this little kitty was SO loving, SO sweet and energetic they couldn't bring themselves to do it, and so they started thinking of who they knew who might take the critter - the now ex-Fremgirls cousin worked at this vet, and knew I was prettymuch missing the same leg and it'd appeal to my sense of irony, as well as me being a sucker for a happy cat...

She is the sweetest lil thing, but she's also full of it, yeah, she plays all gimpy poor little me for sympathy and petting, but she's the second fastest of the cats, Puppy is the ONLY one who can outrun her.

The cat custody thing is also one of the reasons me and the ex keep on good terms, she has four (Lexi, Squirmy, Ghost, Molly) and I have two (Kallista, Puppy), but they don't listen to her, never have...

She stuck me with the two smartest (and therefore most hassle) and weirdest, but the four horsemen there have their moments.

And I MEAN weird... Puppy occasionally gets "conversational" resulting in long conversations entirely in Miaow between me and her back and forth, and we DO kinda-sorta understand each other, but this wigs normal folk out to extremes, and was in part the cause of the only roomie we ever had running off all mentally traumatized, never to return.

And Kallista is about as troublesome as a critter can be without thumbs, having discoved how to open french lever doors, cabinet doors, shove drawers open, push buttons...
One of her favorite "pay attention to me NOW" threats is the power button on your game console.

If they had thumbs, we'd be in deep shit, seriously.

-F


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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:11 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I don't always make contact with animals, but I sometmes do - and to this day it kind of freaks me out.

Once I was at the Shedd Aquarium where they had three Beluga whales. It was at the end of the day and visitors were leaving, so I thought I'd try talking to the whales. One of them spy-hopped for maybe 10 minutes while I talked, looking at me all the while. While this was going on one of the trainers stood a few feet away (in their wetsuit no less), arms crossed, watching the whole thing ... looking back and forth, from whale to me to whale. When I quit and the whale lost interest, the trainer said "I've never seen them do anything like that." And no, I have NO idea of whatever it was that transpired bewteen us - whether friendly or otherwise.

I got my dog (now dearly departed) as she walked around looking at people who were hanging out outside waiting to go into work. When she came to me, she put her head in my lap, looked up at me, and gave this BIIIGGG sigh - like, OK, I can rest now. From that moment on, I was hers. I always told people I didn't pick her, she picked me. But I have NO idea why - she was the first and last dog I ever took care of, and I don't consider myself a 'dog person'.

And while I'm not a fan of birds, I get along well with SignyM's rescued English sparrow, who allows me to pick her up when needed (she doesn't fly very well) without going frantic and nasty.

It doesn't happen with every animal, but it does with some.

And considering the circumstances and my attitudes, it seems very weird to me.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I got my dog (now dearly departed) as she walked around looking at people who were hanging out outside waiting to go into work. When she came to me, she put her head in my lap, looked up at me, and gave this BIIIGGG sigh - like, OK, I can rest now. From that moment on, I was hers. I always told people I didn't pick her, she picked me. But I have NO idea why - she was the first and last dog I ever took care of, and I don't consider myself a 'dog person'.



That's just it, Rue - you don't have to be a "dog person" if the dog in question turns out to be a "people dog". :) My animals find me, and I *usually* connect with dogs, but not always. There are some that I just DON'T get along with, and never really will. And I don't know why. There are some dogs that I get on famously with that it just freaks their owners our, because THEY don't get along with the dog like that. Dogs that they swear are aggressive and anti-social, and the first time I meet them I tend to just jump down on the floor and play games with them, almost like I'm asking them, "Do you know slap-hands? Do you know that game? How about low-head? Can I get my head under yours?" They're all a form of dominance game to the dog, and if you just relate to them on a dog level, you're no threat to them, it seems. So we play, and it doesn't matter who "wins", because they're happy someone's playing with them.

My wife tells me one day I'm going to get myself torn up by jumping in and playing with strange dogs, but I tend to assume all dogs WANT to be friendly, and treat them as friends. It's worked so far!

And yeah, when that animal picks you above all others, it really does make you feel loved and special.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:05 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
This is close to my heart.


Me too...I rescue and foster puppies for a local rescue group. I'm up to 41 puppies in the last year and a half (and two mommas since I'm now set up to take even the youngest litters). Some came for puppy mill raids in southern Ohio...all have found happy homes.
Quote:


What I learned is that puppy mills are LEGAL throughout the country, licensed businesses, and unless there is abuse discovered, allowed to breed dogs by the thousands to sell to pet stores. Only the USDA can really go after them, and they're too busy with other things to bother except in extreme cases.


Puppy mill regulation varies from State to State and here in Ohio there is legislation under consideration to curb abuse even more due to some high profile cases involving puppy mills and a recent big animal abuse case from Petland (we shut their store down and are prosecuting the manager and several employees and there wont be a deal from me, I don't deal animal abuse cases). Recently we have been going after stores like Petland in an effort to curb the demand side of things.

My fist paid legal job was a summer internship for the Atty General of PA's Bureau of Consumer Protection. PA had just enacted the 'Puppy Lemon Law' which was very strong legislation aimed at both Puppy Mills and retail pet stores. It strictly regulated puppy mills and led to a signifigant reduction in puppy mill abuses in the State. That summer agents (and I went along too a couple times) visited every puppy breeder and petstore in the State, numerous citations were issued and many places were shut down and enforcement has continued at a very effective pace in the years since.

If you are looking for model legislation to lobby for in your state I strongly recommend PA's 'Puppy Lemon Law' and associated legislation. Strong consumer protection is a must in every state and action at the State and local level on these issues is far more effective then waiting for a Federal agency to get involved.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Rue and Mike, you obviously have it to. I have yet to master it, but I sure admire it. Dogs take to me, but it's not to the extent you both and Frem. But it's there, I just haven't figured out how to get it there ALL the time--I think my biggest problem is I can get the "calm" part, but the "assertive" eludes me sometimes.

I worked at Marineworld for a time years ago, and my best friend there was a water buffalo--well known for their irrascible temperament. It kind of surprised the trainers (I worked with the Marin Mammal trainers) that he took to me so strongly, but every morning I'd go to his enclosure and he'd come running over, stick his (always very wet) nose in my hands and beg to be petted. We just never know what animals are going to sense our vibes and respond to them.

As to dolphins and whales, your story doesn't surprise me in the least, Rue. Dolphins and whales are incredibly intuitive, not to mention playful, and find humans interesting and fun. I did some work in rehab there, mostly "night shifts" keeping rescued dolphins' and whales' heads out of the water and walking them around. Never had a single one that wasn't calm and trusting in our hands. Had one Pacific Whiteside who was swimming on her own and being rehabbed to return to the wild who got me in trouble...she wanted me to hang onto her dorsal while she pulled me around (an absolute no-no) and kept angling her dorsal under my hand until I gave in.

We don't provide nearly enough intellectual stimulation to captive whales and dolphins, so they find their own, and since humans are the only ones whose heads they can mess up (an oh, so easily!), we're prime targets.

I was "picked" by my last dog, too...husky/shepherd cross. Just lost our last two dogs--hard--within six months of one another, and I'm not a whole person without a dog. Found a litter in the East Bay, went over--driving over the bridge I already knew her name: Keine trane mehr (German for "no more tears).

All the litter except her were shepherd colors with eyeliner--I'd always had shepherds or shepherd crosses, so I was trying to choose among them. This little red thing kept crawling up in my lap...she wasn't what I was looking for so I kept putting her off. No dice, so eventually I gave in and took her home. She was the best dog we ever had.

I sincerely hope the laws evolve where pet mills are concerned...this move in Hollywood is a step forward, but too slow, too slow. Ohio is one of the worst for puppy mills; all the midwest actually, but Ohio and Illinois supposedly in the top five or so. I'm glad some states are moving ahead, since it seems so frustrating to see so little regulation if not out-and-out banning, which is what I would like to see.

There's a difference between puppy mills and "backyard breeders", too--which may be what the woman I got Kochak from actually is, given she has so few dogs. Some backyard breeders are perfectly responsible; some breed from show-kennel dogs with AKC papers and all the right stuff (wormed, shots, papers, humanization, etc., etc.), but since they're unregulated for the most part too, abuses exist there.

Anyone heard of Dogtown? They really impress me; it's a facility in the middle of nowhere which takes in the worst cases, gives them medical attention, training, behavioral rehabilitation and re-homes them. The dedication and the "miracles" they perform leves me speechless. They took in the worst of the Michael Vick dogs, and damned if they didn't rehab every single one and find homes for them. We need more like those, and the ones who pair dogs up with inmates in prison, and any and all ideas people can come up with to deal with all the millions of rescues.

I've always maintained there is no such thing as a "bad" dog...dogs are ALWAYS a reflection of their owners. When I meet a happy, well-balanced dog, I know the owner is someone I can respect and like. Those who don't put the time and energy into their dogs, rather than treat them like convenient "possessions", I want nothing to do with. And there are far too many!

Huzzah to all of you for caring, it's a treasure worth its weight in gold!




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