High school prom cancelled by ACLJews by piratenews

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High school prom cancelled by ACLJews

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:24
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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Interestingly, I can't find anything on women hiding razors in their beehives, but they did. For fighting.

I know the do, just haven't ever heard about the razor blades. Didn't want to believe it was for actual fighting... ew! That ought to be in a Tarantino movie. If it's hasn't been already.

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:32 AM

MAL4PREZ

Bytemite - Really, you don't have to tell me about bad authority figures. I'm been in situations were I was absolutely terrorized, to the point of suicidal depression, by the "cool crowd." And they were led in their behavior, encouraged even, by the authority figure who was supposed to be guiding and teaching me. I've been mocked in class by middle school and high school teachers. My 3rd grade teacher told my entire class that obviously my parents didn't love me. (She had issues with my parents, took it out on me.) I know how that kind of thing happens, and trust me, I'm pissed enough over it. If I ever saw one particular dance teacher again I'd be sorely tempted to do her damage.

So I know. I do. I'd like to help kids avoid this crap as much as possible. I try to encourage them to be aware of how they're treated, to have faith in their own opinions so that they can recognize abuse, to believe they deserve respect. What I will not do is encourage them to rise up against authority, to be paranoid and belligerent, just because I had bad experiences in my own youth. Telling kids to band together and rebel! rebel! rebel! may be fun and all, but it can work against their own interests.

Picketing the school that made the no girl/girl prom rule? Perfect. Everyone wearing tuxes to the backup prom? Love it. Walking around with a chip on your shoulder and flipping the bird at everyone over the age of 20? Not so good.

I can see the kids that have a persecution complex. Thank goodness I don't have to deal with many of these, but there are a few in my school. They are absolutely certain that I'm out to get them and nothing I say or do will get through to them. I guess in their eyes I'm an adult with the power to give them detention or worse, and they're certain I'll abuse the power given the slightest chance.

So hell ya go after the admins who abuse their positions, like the idiots on the Texas schoolboard with their textbook brain-washing. But be careful about painting with a broad brush. Just like not all police abuse their power: not all school admins are out to crush kids. It does a disservice to kids to make them think so.

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 11:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Mal4, you bring up some key points which merit discussion indeed, or at least expansion - bear with me though cause I am tryin to ignore a migraine at the moment, but did wish to comment.

Quote:
The problem with this is that not all school administrations are evil. Nor are children - and high schoolers are to a great extent still children - ready to run their lives completely independently.

Well no - not any more than other people, but they work for a system that has a structure which encourages them to behave in an evil manner, and due to this they either succumb or burn out.

Not sure about that "not ready" aspect, given that due to my mothers work schedule I was prettymuch running my own life and the household from an early age, but I think it's less a matter of capability (you learn fast when the stakes go up, believe me) so much as psychological health - they're capable, but pushing them too hard, too fast does some serious lasting damage in that they don't have the full development of a proper childhood.

Conversely, parents like my sister who roadblock a childs every nudge at independance (forbidden them to work, preventing them from learning how to drive, etc) in order to keep "control" and then kicking them out the door at eighteen grossly unprepared, or if they simply head for the hills in flight from an authority they see as demeaning and oppressive... that's a recipe for disaster too, you know ?

It SHOULD be a smoother transition than it is, but our society has made it something ugly more often than it should be.

Quote:
Frem, I know what you're getting at: authoritarian types abuse their power and kids suffer. Trust me, I know that very well from personal experience. I also know what I've experienced as an educator. These kids I teach, though bright and motivated and mature, often make dumb decisions. Really. I could give examples aplenty. A few have brought battles to me that are really lose-lose for them, but they are so blinded by stubbornness, and want their own way too badly to see the poor outcome they're setting themselves up for. So I just shrug and let them go. It's a shame they *cannot* see that I'm on their side, even though I'm an adult.

But see, that's exactly what one of my problems with it - by setting up an us-and-them dynamic, it puts the kids in a position where they begin to see ALL adults and the adult world as an enemy, like you say, even the folks trying to help them - I am constantly having to remind my niece that not ALL rules are due to adults needing to feed their egos by control, that many of them DO have a legit purpose behind them, even if sometimes that gets twisted around a bit, but once they become entrenched in that us-vs-them mindset, get pushed around, into corners, it becomes harder and harder to get them to see adults as anything but "the enemy", and worse, it calcifies into that kind of on/off, yes/no, black/white thinking that causes so many social problems.

Of course, the earlier they get some connection with an adult who ISN'T an authoritarian, the better, and the more examples of helpful, supportive adults they have the less likely this becomes - but again the problem of much of our educational structure being damn near brutally authoritarian in nature works against us at every turn and corner.

Quote:
The thought of such kids needing to "band together" to "win" creeps me out. A school environment is not about this kind of winning, for anyone. At least, it shouldn't be.

No, it shouldn't - and that it came to something like that offended me so greatly it was one of the primary motivators to try forging something better, the Sudbury model is a much more positive aspect of that kind of banding together, mutual support rather than defensive effort against oppression.

Much like the way police have begun to see the neighborhoods they're supposed to be protecting as enemies to be conquered, so too have many schools begun to see the pupils they're supposed to educate as prisoners that must be controlled - and all rooted in the same damn fool cycle of the very behavior they are engaging in all but gauranteeing the next generation succumbs to it even harder in the same fashion abused children often grow up to be abusers themselves - it's all rooted in the same idiotic circular dynamice, and I am ALL FOR breaking the chain in any way we can do so.

Ergo, a model that encourages a mutual support bonding over clique bonding.
Do some checking into those links, I think as an education you'll be pretty impressed.

Quote:
Left to their own devices, kids can do some pretty evil shit. One thing I love about where I work is the awareness of cliques and bullying. If we see that happening, you bet your ass the grown-ups will try our best to divide and conquer. I have the authority to call kids out if I think they're behaving in a rude or disrespectful manner.

Ain't having the authority, it's having the will and moral courage to DO it.
That requires a level of empathy the cycle of stupidity tends to grind right out of people.

Quote:
(This includes standing in a clump blocking a busy hallway. That's a long time pet peeve and I'll freely admit I LOVE having the power to break those up LOL!)

Amen, especially when some clique noted for their abusive or violent behavior does that shit - we used to call having to get through them "running the gauntlet" cause that's prettymuch what it was.

Quote:
Point is, not all authority figures are evil. In the case of this prom, the authority is all wrong. But please do not paint it as all the good innocent kids against the evil power-hungry adults. Not unless you really know more about it and can back that up.

I'm saying that is the dynamic they are CREATING here, which is grossly, even criminally, negilgent in their duty as educators and examples for kids.
And it's bloody common enough that, like calling kids out when they're behaving in a rude and disrespectful manner, I feel the need to call adults out when they're not only doing so, but sponsoring and encouraging kids to do so - along with an awareness of the consquences of where that goes.

Quote:
I posted what I did about wanting the other girls to show up at the back-up prom in tuxes because I'm imagining the other thing that's more likely happening - I'll bet more than one other student is getting down on this girl for "ruining" their precious once in a lifetime prom event. "Why can't you just be like everyone else and stop making a fuss?" I got that message plenty when I was a kid, and it most often didn't come from adults.

Oh yes, and bad enough that such is - in this case the school set up and sponsored that kinda shit quite deliberately, they couldn't NOT know that'd be the result, and as such they damn well intended it, therefore imma call them on it even overtop of their pathetic denials.

They MEANT to create that environment towards the kid and her family, they did it quite deliberately with malice aforethought, and set down a piss-poor example for every student in their care, and should be held fully responsible for it.

Quote:
Note to self: would like to say more about authority versus guidance, and about the expectations that the kid brings to the table. But first I need coffee, which requires milk, which means crutching my ass to the store. *sigh*

No worries - while I myself am more on the boot up the rear end of things, most of the folk I work with are quite a bit more humane, and I think you should look into the Sudbury model which we're pushing as a replacement/reform from the authoritarian prison-model that's currently so far gone I don't think we can save it - I think you'd be pleasantly surprised if not impressed by it, and it's catching on pretty well in many places.

Annnd.. I really needs be layin down now.

-F

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:02 PM

MAL4PREZ

Sorry to hear about the migraine, Frem. that sucks. Wish I could teletransportbeam you some of the codeine I got for my broken foot. Gets the job done. :)

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Not sure about that "not ready" aspect, given that due to my mothers work schedule I was prettymuch running my own life and the household from an early age, but I think it's less a matter of capability (you learn fast when the stakes go up, believe me) so much as psychological health - they're capable, but pushing them too hard, too fast does some serious lasting damage in that they don't have the full development of a proper childhood.

This is a discussion that could go on for some time. I also grew up quickly by necessity, but as I look back on it now I see how very young I was. Even through undergrad. And I could have used some guidance. I mean, I didn't do badly, but really could have made choices that were better for my own happiness. My "guiding" adults let me down a bit. Then again, I wasn't exactly easily guide-able.

Yeah, no kid is the same as to how much guidance they need, or will accept. I think the most important thing is that they are listened to. Clearly NOT what's happening in Mississippi - and I just checked that first post that said that Ms. McMillen is getting blamed by the other students. Bad bad bad! Somehow I'd missed that (because I don't tend to read PNs's posts.) Bummer for her. Well, she's right, and she'll win in the end. (Um, yep, this is a case that needs to have a winner.

)

Reminds me - there was a hubbub this time last year about a segregated prom. Also in Mississippi, go figure. I think a school managed to hold all-white proms by making it a private deal, paid for by the white parents. Unbelievable. Another case where the students were trained into a system by the prejudices of their parents and teachers. Thank goodness for the ACLU.

Anyway, your post brings up all kinds of thoughts. I definitely think kids should have more chances to be independent, unlike your poor sister. Teens should have the opportunity to try and fail. I swear, parents are so terrified of Junior having even a little bitty mis-step that they swaddle him and he learns nothing! Then he goes to college and drinks himself to death. I've seen it happen.

I've tried to bring independence into the classroom: have more group work, let kids figure things out for themselves rather than having me show them. It's not easy. Especially in physics. It's a completely foreign way of doing things, and I can't expect kids to just learn on their own without being shown many, many examples first. And class time is limited.

As far as I've seen, it's a question all teachers struggle with: how can you get these kids to fly solo, think on their own? Solve problems they've not seen before, though it's a method they should know well? Believe me, kids are not comfortable with this at all. There are even complaints, like serious parent-calling-the-principle's-office complaints. "But Jr's never seen that problem! How can it be on the test?"

See, Jr needs a sure-fire way of getting an A so he can get into Harvard or Columbia. Creative, independent thought is not sure-fire.

Quote:
But see, that's exactly what one of my problems with it - by setting up an us-and-them dynamic, it puts the kids in a position where they begin to see ALL adults and the adult world as an enemy, like you say, even the folks trying to help them - I am constantly having to remind my niece that not ALL rules are due to adults needing to feed their egos by control, that many of them DO have a legit purpose behind them, even if sometimes that gets twisted around a bit

I do know teachers like that. Hey, times get busy and I can't say I've always been successful, but I try very hard never to resort to "because I said so now just do it." I try to explain the reason behind the rules, even if they're not the best reasons. Kids dig that. Straight up: "I know this is silly, but you need to do it this way because it shows me your thought process." Or: "I know you'll never have to solve this kind of problem in your real life. I don't care about the problem. I care that you learn the method, and learn to use the logic." Kids respond to this kind of honesty. They like knowing what the expectations are, and why.

Quote:
Do some checking into those links, I think as an education you'll be pretty impressed.

I've looked a little. Honestly, it was too much to work out. It's how my brain works - I learn by experiencing. It's like schools I interviewed at that use the "Harkness Table". Interesting idea, but until I see it or teach a few classes in this style, I just won't get it.

If I ever have a chance to observe the Sudbury thing, surely I will.

Quote:
Ain't having the authority, it's having the will and moral courage to DO it.

And the support of the rest of the establishment. Hey - I'm new to this. I had no idea what it would be like, teaching at a school where some parents are... well, used to getting their way, let's say. From the first new teacher day, it's been clearly set down that the school will support me if push comes to shove.

Somehow, I think if I was teaching in MS and wanted to stand up for a lesbian student, it wouldn't go over so well. The administration would be no where to be found.

Quote:
I'm saying that is the dynamic they are CREATING here, which is grossly, even criminally, negilgent in their duty as educators and examples for kids.
And it's bloody common enough that, like calling kids out when they're behaving in a rude and disrespectful manner, I feel the need to call adults out when they're not only doing so, but sponsoring and encouraging kids to do so - along with an awareness of the consquences of where that goes.

Please do call them out. that's the only way this crap will stop. Mississippi will be shamed into moving into the 21st century eventually.

If only Texas would follow.

OK, I've just about talked myself out. It's an interesting topic, and a new one for me. Second year of teaching - I still have a lot to figure out, and I'm just starting to understand the challenges.

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 6:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ayep, I think we're seein eye to eye here.

Were it not for a rare few teachers in the same vein you seem to be, I'd have prolly wound up hatin the system too much to even be rational about it, which unfortunately a lotta kids do, alas.

We need to make those kinda teachers the rule, not the exception.

And I wholeheartedly agree that "Because I said so!" is the root of much evil, closest I'll ever come to that is "Trust me, I'll explain later!" if/when there isn't time - and I do make good on it.

The key is, that once you earn a kids trust and respect, you don't *need* fear and force, and no amount of fear and force will ever bring it to you.

What it takes is trying to set an example, and a certain honesty, as you mentioned - and you don't even have to be perfect, hell, how are they ever gonna learn from our flaws and mistakes if we're never honest with them about such things ?

Mosta the kids I deal with are well aware of the fact that I have a violent, barbaric streak in word and deed, and are often amused and appalled by such in equal measure.

Wendy: I want you to TALK to him, not beat the crap out of him, you caveman!
Me: Unga-bunga, ook-eek ?
Wendy: I'm seeerious!
Me: Hmmph!, Oh all right, yeesh.

Nor, as noted, have they any reluctance to call me on it.

All it really takes is simply treating them like people instead of property or pets, and it frustrates me that so few manage to do this - especially when I press the issue and some adults react with fear at the very notion!

To which my opinion is, if you FEAR the result of not treating them like we have, then you knew damned well how wrong it was when you did it!

So one can imagine my sympathies to those folk are quite limited.

I don't deal directly with a lot of the things I have built anymore cause I am something of a throwback and ever more suited as a wrecking ball than peacemaker - but there's times you *need* a wrecking ball, even now.

Having mostly done it, at least so far as the Pathway/WWASP thing went, I'd be quite happy to work myself out of any need for that kinda thing anymore.

Here's for hoping.

-Frem

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010 9:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Interestingly, I can't find anything on women hiding razors in their beehives, but they did. For fighting.

Jeepers, imma never look at Marge Simpson the same way again, knowin that!

Kinda reminds me of Nabeshin's afro, from Excel Saga.

Except he apparently keeps a pair of machineguns in there (bout 1:00 in) - that slew me, when I first saw it...

-F

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:27 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I listened and respectfully refused to comply with their wishes or give them any promise to behave in manner they would approve of."

But you were OK with a student being tasered and forcibly removed when Kerry was speaking on a campus.

Or did you think we'd forget your gaping double standard ?

Had I been disruptive then they would have had every right to remove me and had I resisted like the fella your talking about, then they would be right to taser me.

What was wrong in my case was to seek to deny me access to the event without cause. I'd never disrupted an event. I expressed no desire to disrupt the event in question. They assumed, incorrectly, that because I was politically active and pro life that I would be disrespectful of the person coming to speak. I refused to comply with their request that I stay away and I gave no promises about my behaivor, because none were warranted.

Even my question to the speaker was limited to asking her take on my view that Roe v. Wade is a Pro Life decision.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 5:18 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Had I been disruptive ... had I resisted like the fella your (sic) talking about ..."

He didn't disrupt the event b/c it was already over. He didn't resist.

BTW - you need to brush up on YOUR grammar.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Friday, March 19, 2010 12:11 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Ellen presents $30K to lesbian teen in prom flap

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2010-03-19-degeneres_N.htm

The Payoff...

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Friday, March 19, 2010 12:35 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Damned good for her! A $30,000 SCHOLARSHIP, you neglected to mention. She didn't give her $30,000--which would have paid for a great private prom if she'd wanted.

We all should support those things we believe in, and she's got the bucks to do it. Kudos Ellen.

If the media picked up on the story and caught Ellen's or anyone else's attention because of it, it's no "payoff", it's justice--and would never have happened, no doubt, were it not for the media.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, March 20, 2010 7:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Yanno, there's this lil old lady at site three who sometimes walks her two cute (albiet somewhat yappy) little lapdogs real late, and she has a kinda halfsie-beehive goin on...

So I wandered by on my rounds (her doggies like me, oddly enough) and we got to chatting and I asked her about that whole razors in the beehive thing.

She waves a hand and brushes her 'do with a laugh, then holds out her hand and turns it palm up, and YOWZA, sure as hell, there's a friggin razor blade peekin up between her middle and ring fingers, one end cocked up against the cameo ring on her middle fingers band holding it steady in place - invisible from most angles, that'd be, but hot DAMN one flat handed slap from that'd leave you in a world of hurt.

I was like "GACK!, remind me not to go around muggin old ladies!"

She found that terribly amusing.

I am certainly, definitely, never lookin at marge simpson the same ever again, yikes.

-F

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Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup, wicked, ain't they? I stayed clear of those girls, but given that then they were the majority of the "in crowd", it wasn't hard. Luckily, being six feet tall, I rarely if ever got harrassed--another reason I "slunk from tree to tree" all through high school, tho'.

I found it so strange that I couldn't find a single article on razor blades in beehives, tho'; I wonder why? We all knew about it--obviously others across the country did/do; why did nobody write anything on it? Just interesting.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Beats me too, I had initially thought you meant straight razors, not like, a razor blade..

That's cause I did know a girl in school who carried one (although not in her hair) and taught me some of the finer points of how to use it on someone - she was an interesting girl, Vix was, always wore a dress, which was so odd for the region and time a lotta folks took her for a mormon or something, although she was actually catholic.

And she DID know how to use that horrible thing, too, some dimbulb followed her into the girls bathroom on the third floor once with nefarious intent and got himself a fine set of stitches for his trouble.

Worst of it was, I liked her, and although she desperately wanted to marry me (which I took as strange given how little she knew me) it just plain wasn't gonna happen cause by then I was already involved in sticking it to the hellcamps and other dirty business and didn't want to suck her into a world of hurt like that when she deserved better.

Anyhows, I knew some of em in my time carried straight razors, so I thought that had been what you meant.

-F

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:38 AM

FREMDFIRMA

UPDATE

Now this is interesting...

The fuckers tried a bait and switch, or planned to, showing that much of their actions were premeditated and with malice aforethought.
http://sdgln.com/news/2010/04/21/aclu-complaint-expands-add-decoy-prom
-constance-mcmillen

That's pretty much the stake through the heart of ANY possible defense they might offer, and I sincerely hope this girl mops the floor with them and hands out an ass kicking so severe it serves as a lesson for a damn long time.

Cause not only did they impact her in a negative way, all the students and parents who's intolerant attitudes were reinforced and supported by this asshattery were also even if they don't ever realize how damaging that is to a human being.

Again, you think school bullying stops when the perps and victims graduate ?
Nope, it just escalates to a larger scale, and all too often the perps are rewarded for that shit by elevation into political office.

And THIS time, I very much how to see that reward revoked - nothin is gonna give back the precious moment those dicks stole from her, nothin can ever make it right, but the knowledge that they paid dearly for it can certainly mitigate it.

Those moments, those unique and special moments of a childhood, they are in great part what form a persons character, and as such invaluable, irreplaceable, and the good ones should be treasured and protected with every resource we adults can bring to bear - I firmly believe that, the dollhouse story is proof enough of this - and yet too often we destroy such moments, or turn them into something ugly, something hateful, and then have the nerve to blame the folks who's hope and idealism we have crushed, warped, distorted, even murdered - for hating us in response ?

Thank heavens for folks like Wendy, when I asked her what she'd do if I put her former fosters up against a wall and handed her a rifle...

"I'd give it back, being what they are is worse than anything I could do, and making them live that way is how I want them to suffer, being miserable while I am happy is even better than sending them to hell."

Sometimes vengeance is the only justice possible.

-Frem

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:40 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I know Im being an asshole.. but I find the whole bait and switch thing amusing to no end.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup, asshole. But that something similar should have happened to you at that age.

That's unconscionable and sick...so much for "adults", just small-minded, petulant children in bigger bodies. How sick. Fantastic example to "teach" their kids!

My heart goes out to that girl, what a horrible memory to carry the rest of her life. I hope the lawsuit prevails and I wish they could do more.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:24 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

You know, if I were trying - and I mean really trying - to think of the stupidest, most bigoted, most likely to bring the ACLU down on them like the wrath of God thing that the school and parents could do in this situation, I don't think I'd have come up with something this stupid.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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