Turns out the "Climategate" scandal and the attack on ACORN has been found to be false. Anyone care for the truth?:[quote]The right-wing zealots were fo..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

ACORN videos and 'Climategate' both frauds

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, April 5, 2010 06:31
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1196
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Saturday, April 3, 2010 6:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Turns out the "Climategate" scandal and the attack on ACORN has been found to be false. Anyone care for the truth?:
Quote:

The right-wing zealots were forced to release their unedited ACORN pimp tapes to California Attorney General Jerry Brown. Brown found that O'Keefe had never claimed to be a pimp, and that the editing was creative to the point of dishonesty.

He's not the first to find similar nefarious-ness behind the ACORN tapes. James O'Keefe, an activist who thinks he's a journalist, had claimed that he'd wandered into ACORN offices dressed as a pimp, accompanied by a friend dressed as a prostitute, and found them willing to dispense illegal advice. Previous investigations had found that, and Andrew Breitbart (his mentor at BigGovernment.org, who aired the videos) had done some, um, creative editing.

But Brown's findings are the most damning yet. Here, via MediaMatters, is one excerpt from Brown's office's report, and another from their press release. The findings echo those of all the professionals — including the Brooklyn DA's office — who have looked into the matter. ACORN was by no means perfect, but:
Quote:

O'Keefe stated he was out to make a point and to damage ACORN and therefore did not act as a journalist objectively reporting a story. The video releases were heavily edited to feature only the worst or most inappropriate statements of the various ACORN employees, and to omit some of the most salient statements by O'Keefe and Giles.

Videotapes secretly recorded last summer and severely edited by O'Keefe seemed to show ACORN employees encouraging a "pimp" (O'Keefe) and his "prostitute," actually a Florida college student named Hannah Miles, in conversations involving prostitution by underage girls, human trafficking and cheating on taxes. Those videos created a media sensation.

Evidence obtained by Brown tells a somewhat different story, however, as reflected in three videotapes made at ACORN locations in California. One ACORN worker in San Diego called the cops. Another ACORN worker in San Bernardino caught on to the scheme and played along with it, claiming among other things that she had murdered her abusive husband. Her two former husbands are alive and well, the Attorney General's report noted. At the beginning and end of the Internet videos, O'Keefe was dressed as a 1970s Superfly pimp, but in his actual taped sessions with ACORN workers, he was dressed in a shirt and tie, presented himself as a law student, and said he planned to use the prostitution proceeds to run for Congress. He never claimed he was a pimp.

O'Keefe asked for, and was granted immunity from prosecution for breaching California's privacy laws in exchange for the unedited tapes.

There's so much more, and links to the unedited tapes (if you can sit through them) at http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7780&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twit
ter


The "Climategate" scandal was also a fraud, according to a panel in the U.K.:
Quote:

A parliamentary panel investigating allegations that scientists at one of the world’s leading climate research centers misrepresented data related to global warming announced Wednesday that it had found no evidence to support that charge.

But the panel, the Science and Technology Committee of the British House of Commons, did fault scientists at the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit and its director, Prof. Phil Jones, for the way they handled freedom of information requests from skeptics challenging the evidence of climate change.

The panel said that Professor Jones and his colleagues could have saved themselves a great deal of trouble by aggressively publishing all their data instead of worrying about how to stonewall their critics.

The lawmakers’ inquiry is the first of three to be opened in Britain since the dissemination in November of e-mail messages and data between the scientists that were apparently hacked from a computer system.

The lawmakers emphasized that nothing in the more than 1,000 stolen e-mail messages or in the ensuing controversy challenged the scientific consensus that “global warming is happening and that it is induced by human activity.”

The lawmakers expressed sympathy with Professor Jones, whom Phil Willis, the committee's chairman, said had been made a scapegoat for conflicts within the sphere of climate science sphere.

"The focus on Professor Jones and the C.R.U. has been largely misplaced," the report said.

The publication of the e-mail messages ahead of an international conference in Copenhagen on climate change set off an online furor, in which skeptics of human-made climate change referred to the controversy as "Climategate."

The lawmakers noted that they decided to investigate the matter because of "the serious implications for U.K. science."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/science/earth/31climate.html

But they both worked, didn't they? Nobody on the news has reported on either one; ACORN is dead, and more are convinced climate change doesn't exist.

Some tactics work really well, given the MSM's hunger for "scandal" and their audiences (especially FauxNews) eat up whatever they say. Go right wing!



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:21 AM

WHOZIT


ACORN was brought down by a documentory film maker........AHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!! They wanted to help him start a whore house staffed with teenaged girls.....AHHAHAHAHAHA!! Barry Obama onced worked with ACORN.....AHHAHAHAHAHA!! You libs are HUGE ASSHOLES!! AHHAHAHAHAHA!!

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




We have several sad contributors to this forum...you are, unfortunately, one of the saddest and least able to post coherently of them. Also apparently illiterate, since you didn't even read the article showing the truth.



...on the other hand...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Still trying to raise the Titanic, I see.




Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor


Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ah, wind, but you see, they already RAISED it, and nobody's bothered to sink it again, despite the facts.

Which I know hold absolutely NO interest for you and your friends here...



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 8:01 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:


We have several sad contributors to this forum...you are, unfortunately, one of the saddest and least able to post coherently of them. Also apparently illiterate, since you didn't even read the article showing the truth.



...on the other hand...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

I read it, what did I type that was not true?

Fact 1: ACORN was brought down by a 20 somthing film maker.

Fact 2; Your hero Barry (Great Dictator) worked with them.

Fact 3; I'VE RELEASED THE "KRAKEN"!!......sic em

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 8:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


ACORN was as crooked as the Mississippi river and there is no such thing as man caused global warming.

You know it, I know it.....

The emperor has no clothes, and yet you still gaze in wonderment....




Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor


Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 9:28 AM

RIGHTEOUS9



Seriously, why do you both even respond to the post if you don't actually mean to tackle the information in it.

You clearly don't feel the need to change our minds, otherwise you would actually use evidence to refute Niki's points...

you clearly don't see the need to rebuff bad information, as you haven't bothered to adress anything that was posted as factually wrong. And no, pointing out that this filmmaker helped to force acorn to shut its doors is not evidence of means, only of ends.

Do you simply need to be loud and proud to protect your own fragile world view?

What value do you think your contribution would have in swaying somebody that is less "informed" on these issues than you or Niki, who hasn't neccesarily been exposed to the subject or made up his mind on it? If you aren't talking to him, and if you aren't really talking to us, who are you talking to?

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 9:35 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Righteous9:

Seriously, why do you both even respond to the post if you don't actually mean to tackle the information in it.

You clearly don't feel the need to change our minds, otherwise you would actually use evidence to refute Niki's points...

you clearly don't see the need to rebuff bad information, as you haven't bothered to adress anything that was posted as factually wrong. And no, pointing out that this filmmaker helped to force acorn to shut its doors is not evidence of means, only of ends.

Do you simply need to be loud and proud to protect your own fragile world view?

What value do you think your contribution would have in swaying somebody that is less "informed" on these issues than you or Niki, who hasn't neccesarily been exposed to the subject or made up his mind on it? If you aren't talking to him, and if you aren't really talking to us, who are you talking to?

I will tackle the information.......RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!.....sic em

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 9:44 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Turns out the "Climategate" scandal and the attack on ACORN has been found to be false.



Not quite.

Don't know about your media, but the fact the the ACORN tapes were edited and that few ACORN offices gave advice on pimping underaged girls isn't news to me. The point I got in the original reports in the Washington Post and local media was that SOME ACORN offices gave such advice. The article you cite doesn't refute this. It did happen. So the claims may be exaggerated, but aren't false.

I also wonder about the validity of this statement: "...he was dressed in a shirt and tie, presented himself as a law student, and said he planned to use the prostitution proceeds to run for Congress. He never claimed he was a pimp."
I'd think that anyone who said they were going to make profits from prostituting underaged girls would be considered a pimp, regardless of their dress.

As to the "Climategate"... In the Post and our local TV news, it was clearly stated that the issue was in the way the scientists at East Anglia were communicating with collegues in the U.S. about stonewalling data requests (which the review panel noted) and refusing to peer review any papers that didn't agree with their own conclusions. Nothing to indicate they were falsifying data or lying.

So your articles seem to be about folks finding out about stuff everyone else knew months ago, and getting all huffy about it.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 11:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


except that Whozit and Rappy STILL don't know!

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 11:22 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
except that Whozit and Rappy STILL don't know!

The "Kracken" is after you. www.bruce-campbell.com Now buy an action figure!

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Sunday, April 4, 2010 6:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Righteous, if you were referring to me, I'm female. And I have been exposed to the subject; like everyone else, I only heard the initial stories for a long time, until I heard otherwise recently. I've made my mind up about climate change, but when it comes to ACORN, I think it was wrong for a deliberately-falsified attack to bring them down, as I think they've done far more good than bad. The employees should be fired, of course, but I think people should know the truth, and the truth is that there were a couple of bad apples, while the rest of the offices either threw them out or called the police. I wonder how many offices they had to go to before they found people stupid enough to advise them as they did.

As to trying to talk to those two, don't waste your typing. What you read is all they ever have to offer...which is why we call them wind/hot air. They have no desire to prove anyone wrong, your assumption was correct;
Quote:

Do you simply need to be loud and proud to protect your own fragile world view?
To you I have to say: Welcome, additional voice of simple sanity. I hope you don't get lost in the muck!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Sunday, April 4, 2010 6:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to the ACORN thing, Geezer, if the material had been presented accurately, and the video reflected that, I would have had no problem with the situation being presented. Thus it WAS fraud. I, however, do not believe if it had been, that everyone would have been AS up in arms about it, which would not have resulted in Congress getting pushed into killing the organization.

I also don't believe that the U.K. situation, if not blown so out of proportion (because the data WAS accurate, it was the lack of willingness to present it and reporting that it was "complete" would not have resulted in the big scandal.

I believe both stories were false enough, and the first deliberately so, that if they'd been presented with all the facts, they would not have had the result they did. That is what I attempted to say.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:03 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
...if the material had been presented accurately, and the video reflected that, I would have had no problem with the situation being presented.


Niki.

No one who has an agenda, from the ACORN video guy, to Michael Moore, to Huffingtonpost, to the Teabaggers, to your favorite SF Chronicle editorialist, ever presents the material accurately. They mold and edit it to try and reenforce their points and sell their ideology. If folk read these people as fact, without checking with a less biased source, they do so because they're already bought into that particular line. As I noted, the facts about both the ACORN videos and "Climategate" were available in major media when they first came up.

Would you really want every pundit to have to stick to the accurate, un-biased, truth about everything? You'd have a lot less videos and articles to post.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Would you really want every pundit to have to stick to the accurate, un-biased, truth about everything?
Well, how about something that couldn't be called FRAUD by a Attorney General? There's a line between bias and outright deception... and it was crossed.

But, to answer your question: YES, I would like my news straight. Wouldn't you?

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:30 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. The ACORN videos always seemed suspicious, when I first heard them over Glen Beck's radio program it occurred to me how easily it all could have been staged.

But I'm afraid I don't trust mediamatters word about it, either. They do have a pretty strong bias one way. If you could find me a less biased source, like perhaps a syndicated newspaper or the AP, then I might consider it.

EDIT: Ooh, results from the investigation about climategate. I didn't realize they'd finished. And it's a syndicated newspaper, okay.

You know, it's probable that a lot of the emails were taken out of context or misunderstood by people who don't have a science background. The hockey stick and the "adjustments" mentioned are probably innocent, probably just trying to account for factors and not made up. You actually CAN calculate adjustment factors, and apply them to real data, and it doesn't invalidate the data.

Although I can also see the conservative argument about how global warming could be abused to create unnecessary and tighter government controls, and it is worrisome that there's such an international movement in the top levels of government. It does feel pretty globalist. And I don't like globalist. Take a real problem and capitalize off it.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But Rappy and Whozit will ignore facts in favor of ideology. You can count on it!

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:35 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
You know, it's probable that a lot of the emails were taken out of context or misunderstood by people who don't have a science background. The hockey stick and the "adjustments" mentioned are probably innocent, probably just trying to account for factors and not made up. You actually CAN calculate adjustment factors, and apply them to real data, and it doesn't invalidate the data.


Most of the blow up was about the "hide the decline" comment, which was referring to the decline in reliability of tree ring data in recent years, and moving over to data collected directly by temperature sensors. Not, as the blowhards tried to portray it, a decline in temperature. So less misunderstanding/taking out of context and more flat out lying.

The rest was mostly about scientists not fulfilling FOI requests, and to each one more or less they have had valid reasons. If data is publicly available elsewhere, they don't have to provide it under FOI. One of the people who has been shouting loudest about this is a Global Warming Denier who was making lots of bogus FOI request simply to prevent scientists from spending any time on the actually science, he didn't want the data, he was using it as a tactic to attack science he didn't like. It's mostly impotent whining from people who didn't like having to do some work for themselves.

The whole "Climategate" thing was a whole heap of over blown bullshit and political posturing by a bunch of people who've already lost the debate, but aren't about to let the complete failure of their baseless anti-science stance get in the way of trying to force their lies. The only thing Climategate has proven is how baseless the stance of the other side is, and how desperate and delusional they are in trying to push it regardless.

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 6:22 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, how about something that couldn't be called FRAUD by a Attorney General?



So you obviously didn't read the article Niki posted.

The California Atty General got the tapes to see if there were illegal acts committed by ACORN.

http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1888_acorn_report.pdf

Quote:

On September 16, 2009, Governor Schwarzenegger wrote to Attorney General Brown and requested that he investigate ACORN’s activities in California. On September 25, 2009, this Office informed the Governor that it had opened an investigation into ACORN’s activities in California, as well as the circumstances surrounding the covert recordings.
As the investigation into the videos began, additional concerns about ACORN surfaced. The
Attorney General expanded his investigation to include the following issues and allegations
related to ACORN and its affiliates:




While the AG did report...
Quote:

Although highly inappropriate, the evidence does not show that the ACORN employees
in California violated state criminal laws in connection with their conversations with
O’Keefe and Giles.



...the report does also contain this:

Quote:

The recordings establish ACORN employees across the country were willing to discuss with O’Keefe and Giles their plan to conduct a prostitution business, and a few even
made suggestions for disguising profits and avoiding detection by law enforcement
agencies. The most offensive conversations occurred outside California.



If you'll read the report, you'll find that ACORN did violate laws in California regarding protection of personal information, filing reports required by charities, and delenquent tax forms.

The AG did note that the tapes were edited by O'Keefe and that "The evidence illustrates that things are not always as partisan zealots portray them through highly selective editing of reality," which could apply equally to O'Keefe and, say, Michael Moore.

The only possible charges mentioned against O'Keefe were for violating privacy rights by secretly taping the ACORN folks. He was granted immunity from such charges when he turned over the tapes.

Nowhere in the report were O'Keefe's videos called fraudulent, or was the possibility of fraud charges against him mentioned.

Maybe the person who wrote the blog Niki cited should try telling the whole truth sometimes.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, April 5, 2010 6:31 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah? I guess that makes sense. I also heard something about a "wishing the medieval warming period would disappear," but it's likely that was also out of context.

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