wikileaks video: civilians murdered in Iraq by mal4prez

It's quite clearly a bunch of guys standing around talking, not even looking at the chopper. One guy had a gun - like in Texas, this is apparently not unusual in Iraq. Another man was the Reuters photographer. The US soldiers took his camera to be an RPG. If you saw the video, you would see that this is ridiculous.

The soldiers kill these people, then mock them, then blatantly lie. "We were taking fire" when they clearly were not.

Here's a tidbit from after the shooting, when ground forces arrive. A van driven by a man with his children in the back had pulled over to help one of the injured. The US soldiers killed him and wounded his children:

16:49 Roger, I've got uh eleven Iraqi KIAs [Killed In Action]. One small child wounded. Over.
16:57 Roger. Ah damn. Oh well.
17:04 Roger, we need, we need a uh to evac [evacuate] this child. Ah, she's got a uh, she's got a wound to the belly.
17:10 I can't do anything here. She needs to get evaced. Over.
17:18 Bushmaster Seven, Bushmaster Seven; this is Bushmaster Six Romeo.
17:20 We need your location over.
17:25 Roger, we're at the location where Crazyhorse engaged the RPG fire break.
17:37 Grid five-four-five-eight.
17:46 Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle.
17:48 That's right.
17:56 Got uh, eleven.
18:01 Yeah uh, roger. We're monitoring [observing].
18:02 Sorry.
18:04 No problem.
18:07 Correction eight-six-one-six.
18:16 Looking for more individuals-south.
18:18 Bushmaster Six-Bushmaster Seven.
18:29 I think they just drove over a body.
18:31 Hey hey!
18:32 Yeah!
18:37 Maybe it was just a visual illusion, but it looked like it.
18:41 Well, they're dead, so.

Yes, and I'm so fucking mad I can't breathe.

And for Gino: That underlined part sound at all familar? Have you been saying shit like that lately? Yeah, guess what side you're on, pal. The WRONG one.

Cause I don't want to go kill anyone over this. You see how it works? Bin Laden killed New Yorkers, so some pissed off soldiers go out and kill these Iraqis... I'm not taking it the next step.

But these soldiers and the higher-ups who did the cover-up better fucking end in jail.

From the New York Times right after this happened, in 2007, the official story:

The American military said in a statement late Thursday that 11 people had been killed: nine insurgents and two civilians. According to the statement, American troops were conducting a raid when they were hit by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades. The American troops called in reinforcements and attack helicopters. In the ensuing fight, the statement said, the two Reuters employees and nine insurgents were killed.

"There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force," said Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a spokesman for the multinational forces in Baghdad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/world/middleeast/13iraq.html?_r=2

bullshitbullshitbullshit

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Monday, April 5, 2010 12:29 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
It's quite clearly a bunch of guys standing around talking, not even looking at the chopper. One guy had a gun - like in Texas, this is apparently not unusual in Iraq. Another man was the Reuters photographer. The US soldiers took his camera to be an RPG. If you saw the video, you would see that this is ridiculous.

The soldiers kill these people, then mock them, then blatantly lie. "We were taking fire" when they clearly were not.

Here's a tidbit from after the shooting, when ground forces arrive. A van driven by a man with his children in the back had pulled over to help one of the injured. The US soldiers killed him and wounded his children:

16:49 Roger, I've got uh eleven Iraqi KIAs [Killed In Action]. One small child wounded. Over.
16:57 Roger. Ah damn. Oh well.
17:04 Roger, we need, we need a uh to evac [evacuate] this child. Ah, she's got a uh, she's got a wound to the belly.
17:10 I can't do anything here. She needs to get evaced. Over.
17:18 Bushmaster Seven, Bushmaster Seven; this is Bushmaster Six Romeo.
17:20 We need your location over.
17:25 Roger, we're at the location where Crazyhorse engaged the RPG fire break.
17:37 Grid five-four-five-eight.
17:46 Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle.
17:48 That's right.
17:56 Got uh, eleven.
18:01 Yeah uh, roger. We're monitoring [observing].
18:02 Sorry.
18:04 No problem.
18:07 Correction eight-six-one-six.
18:16 Looking for more individuals-south.
18:18 Bushmaster Six-Bushmaster Seven.
18:29 I think they just drove over a body.
18:31 Hey hey!
18:32 Yeah!
18:37 Maybe it was just a visual illusion, but it looked like it.
18:41 Well, they're dead, so.

Yes, and I'm so fucking mad I can't breathe.

And for Gino: That underlined part sound at all familar? Have you been saying shit like that lately? Yeah, guess what side you're on, pal. The WRONG one.

Cause I don't want to go kill anyone over this. You see how it works? Bin Laden killed New Yorkers, so some pissed off soldiers go out and kill these Iraqis... I'm not taking it the next step.

But these soldiers and the higher-ups who did the cover-up better fucking end in jail.

From the New York Times right after this happened, in 2007, the official story:

The American military said in a statement late Thursday that 11 people had been killed: nine insurgents and two civilians. According to the statement, American troops were conducting a raid when they were hit by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades. The American troops called in reinforcements and attack helicopters. In the ensuing fight, the statement said, the two Reuters employees and nine insurgents were killed.

"There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force," said Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a spokesman for the multinational forces in Baghdad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/world/middleeast/13iraq.html?_r=2

bullshitbullshitbullshit

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And for Gino: That underlined part sound at all familar? Have you been saying shit like that lately? Yeah, guess what side you're on, pal. The WRONG one.

Actually Mal, I was quoting AU when I said that

he made that remark about Palestinian kids getting gunned down by the IDF.

My side would either see the pilot, gunner, and commander charged and convicted of 12 counts of murder, and whatever else

or if that isn't remotely possible... then their base hit with multiple truck bombs in response.

Please don't put words that are not mine in my mouth

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Monday, April 5, 2010 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Please don't put words that are not mine in my mouth

From the other thread - you said:

The only solution is to attack the US until it comes apart... Sooner the better

obviously change from within will never happen

If you did not mean this, just let me know. All I've been after is trying to figure out if you really mean the stuff about "Americans deserve to die." I asked you that straight up early on in our little "contretemps". But the way you've responded has made me doubt. You've sounded a helluva lot like you think every one of us USofAers have EARNED a bloody end.

As I told you, I understand that Americans may die as a result of Iraq and all the other sins of our govt. But I don't think we deserve it, not any more than man and his kids in that van did.

I'm all for 12 counts of murder. And conspiracy charges against those who put together the bullcrap official story. I'm glad we agree on that.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
or if that isn't remotely possible... then their base hit with multiple truck bombs in response.

Whoa - I missed this. Huh? So all the other soldiers and civilians and spouses and children on the base should die because these few soldiers did something monstrous? How is that different from what the bastards in the chopped did?

Wow. Do you really just not get it? How can you not see the hypocrisy?

*astounded*

If you were just being ironic, please admit it or I will dismiss you forever as being certifiably insane...

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Monday, April 5, 2010 1:07 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

whatever Mal if it makes you feel better

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Monday, April 5, 2010 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Actually Mal, I was quoting AU when I said that

he made that remark about Palestinian kids getting gunned down by the IDF.

My side would either see the pilot, gunner, and commander charged and convicted of 12 counts of murder, and whatever else

or if that isn't remotely possible... then their base hit with multiple truck bombs in response.

Please don't put words that are not mine in my mouth

I forgot that I intended to quote your full posts. You know. Just in case.

So, um... again I see no denial. It's as if you really do think that innocents should die, as long as you're mad enough about something someone in their neighborhood did.

I don't know. Can't dismiss though. You're just so cool about so many things that I have to hold on to hope that you're being ironic. You can't really mean it.

Right?

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Monday, April 5, 2010 1:31 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Whoa - I missed this. Huh? So all the other soldiers and civilians and spouses and children on the base should die because these few soldiers did something monstrous? How is that different from what the bastards in the chopped did?

So America puts families on it's forward operating bases now huh?

--------------------------------------------------

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 1:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Whoa - I missed this. Huh? So all the other soldiers and civilians and spouses and children on the base should die because these few soldiers did something monstrous? How is that different from what the bastards in the chopped did?

So America puts families on it's forward operating bases now huh?

This shooting happened in 2007. I figured the people who did it are likely stationed back here in the states by now.

Or maybe Gino means to truck bomb whatever base is nearby in Iraq? You know, because killing whoever's handy is a better solution than actually going after the guilty party.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 2:21 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oops, I was writing when I saw this last, so I'm deleting my post (as it was full of, well, you can imagine.

Then again: Mal4, haven't you figured it out yet? In numerous places Gino has said America should be bombed; that includes innocents. He holds us all responsible, ergo we should all die. Gino is just

where we're concerned and just a little bit more than

. Trying to pin him down to where he has said things about bombing us and thinks like a terrorist is a waste of time. He doesn't SEE it, y'know?

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, April 5, 2010 2:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Then again: Mal4, haven't you figured it out yet? In numerous places Gino has said America should be bombed; that includes innocents. He holds us all responsible, ergo we should all die.

I don't know Niki. I beginning to think that's not quite it. But Gino's already started a thread about himself, so I'll leave further discussion of his psyche for another place. Not that it isn't interesting.

Back to the shooting - thing is, seeing proof like this throws even more doubt on so many other reports of violence against civilians. I mean, I wasn't doubting that bad shit has gone down a'plenty, but I've never seen such damning and direct evidence of it. And again - it's not just the few guys in the helicopter. Someone worked hard covering this up. Makes me wonder what else they covered up.

Apparently, wikileaks has another video from Afghanistan that they'll be releasing soon.

I wonder if any of this will make the MSM, or if it'll get shut down.

ETAnswer my own question: it's in the Times already. And elsewhere.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 3:51 PM

HKCAVALIER

The way I see it, M4P, Nikki, Story, some horrendous crime has gotten Gino very upset. That's all. You all bullying him and badgering him to admit his extreme rhetoric hit him in just the wrong place. Of course he doesn't advocate genocide. Sure, what he wrote can be read as if he did, but y'all should know better, shouldn't ya? Now, for him to apologize or admit his error, or whatever penance y'all been trying to wring from him, he would have to sanction the bullying behavior to do so. And no one with any self respect grovels before that kind of harassment on the internet.

And Story, can we please quit with the gendered put-downs? "Grow a pair?" Really?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:05 PM

ANTIMASON

i couldnt watch it either.. no offense Mal. i just believe.. we have a small window right now to change American policy peacefully, from the grassroots.. and thats all we(i) can do. tit for tat, an eye for an eye, is not the answer; responding to voilence with more violence is the perpetual trap we fall into. this does not happen by will of the people- congress doesnt know this stuff is going on. this is why people like PN or myself have been warning that AMerica, and much of the west, are just being used to make the world safe for the NWO. this isnt just America.. this isnt even representative of everyday AMericans, what we want or believe. this is part of a much bigger agenda, with many more players then meet the eye. i know this type of thing just fuels the anti-american hatred around here.. but before we accept retaliation as an antedote, lets come together and support causes that promote real shifts in the political paradigm.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:11 PM

Here's the problem HK: The fact that Gino's claiming to be bullied... uh, you wanna maybe look that up? Cause it really hasn't happened that way, not that I've seen.

I've talked reasonable with Gino as much as I could. I never name-called him, never threatened him, just asked what he thought and tried to understand him. I invited his input at every step. In case you missed it: he went off the deep end, called names, made false accusations, and even got explicitly threatening to Niki. He's pretty much become a stalker. He's done the bullying here.

Or - are you saying that his unreasonable behavior means that he must have been through something bad, so that means whatever he does is OK?

*confused*

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i couldnt watch it either.. no offense Mal. i just believe.. we have a small window right now to change American policy peacefully, from the grassroots.. and thats all we can do. tit for tat, an eye for an eye, is not the answer; responding to voilence with more violence is the perpetual trap we fall into. this does not happen by will of the people- congress doesnt know this stuff is going on. this is why people like PN or myself have been warning that AMerica, and much of the west, are just being used to make the world safe for the NWO. this isnt just America.. this isnt even representative of everyday AMericans, what we want or believe. this is part of a much bigger agenda, with many more players then meet the eye. i know this type of thing just fuels the anti-american hatred around here.. but before we accept retaliation as an antedote, lets come together and support causes that promote real shifts in the political paradigm.

Well said Antimason. No offense at all. It really did make me sick to watch, and I didn't even get to the worst parts. Just checked the transcript for those.

NWO.... not to be a broken record, but have you heard of "The Family"? A recent discovery for me. I *hate* conspiracy theories, but this one has too much behind it to be ignored.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:34 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Been there done that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Libya

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:35 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Here's the problem HK: The fact that Gino's claiming to be bullied... uh, you wanna maybe look that up? Cause it really hasn't happened that way, not that I've seen.

I've talked reasonable with Gino as much as I could. I never name-called him, never threatened him, just asked what he thought and tried to understand him. I invited his input at every step. In case you missed it: he went off the deep end, called names, made false accusations, and even got explicitly threatening to Niki. He's pretty much become a stalker. He's done the bullying here.

Or - are you saying that his unreasonable behavior means that he must have been through something bad, so that means whatever he does is OK?

*confused*

What I'm saying is that if he is not behaving rationally, you need to let it go or end up becoming part of the chaos. I'm saying that you've accused him of advocating genocide and I don't think that is remotely fair, given who he is and where he's been.

You are sounding, to my ear, uncharacteristically self-righteous. Of course, I'm not saying that "whatever he does is okay." Jeez. I'm saying, merely, that I can understand why he might not apologize for his behavior.

mal4pres, please answer this question: do you truly believe that ginobifferoni advocates genocide against Americans? Do you honestly believe that he wants our cities bombed? Don't tell me what he said, we both know what he said. I'm asking you, do you believe that what he said reflects his truest feelings on the matter?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:47 PM

HK: I'll post in Gino's "ban Gino" thread. I don't want to continue this tangent here.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:05 PM

This ain't the half of it, there's another massacre they just copped to where our troops went and cut the bullets outta the civvies in an effort to deny culpability - it's all horrible, but horrible things happen in wars, which is why sensible people do not have them.

I've seen worse, much worse, mind you - but that still don't make it right, or something that should be tolerated, and yet again, those who say war is hell ain't kiddin, it's GONNA happen, and the attitudes we train our troops to, that contributes.

There's a couple vids of that kinda jackass behavior, that tremendous disrespect, of a lower but more consistent form - like the way our guys more or less play bumper cars and bump/shove the locals outta the way, not for any reason of safety or security, but in a kind of intolerable arrogance which is half the reason we never seem to make no headway with them people.

When you create an insane situation, people will act in insane ways within it, that's what war is.

Not justifyin it, just sayin there ain't no avoidin it.

-Frem

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Skipped through the " preamble " of the video, as I didn't want to be influenced by just 1 side of the story. i didn't endure the entire 17 + minutes. I watched the incident, and that was all.

From the looks of it, the one's talking clearly THOUGHT they saw something hostile. Many of their fellow soldiers as well as civilians have been killed by such " insurgents ", and that's no lie. So that must be taken into consideration.

However, I didn't see any RPG, or anyone firing.

Easy for us to say, sitting comfortably at home, in our own chairs, at a computer monitor, wearing our fuzzy slippers or what not, where these guys are actually IN the shit, to put it plainly.

Looks like a FUBAR, to be sure.

Not the 1st time this sort of stuff has happened, nor will it be the last.

I can still recall from the 1st Gulf war, where a video of a incident which showed a target being taken out, I think by a Hellfire missile , and it turned out to be a coalition vehicle. ( Not sure if it was British or U.S. ) Point being , even then, every precaution was taken, and the pilot checked and double checked w/ the the chain of command before opening up ...... only to have word come after the fact that it might have been one of ours.

Gee, thanks for the info......

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:20 PM

CANTTAKESKY

GUYS!!

This thread is not about Gino. It is about American soldiers killing unarmed civilians, including civilian minors, and bending, if not outright, violating our own rules of engagement.

My heart feels like it's been broken. I feel like I can't breathe. I would be sobbing if I could breathe. I had nowhere else to go, so I came here.

For those of you who aren't watching this, it is not just the first round of fire that is utterly grievous. If you wish to give these soldiers the benefit of the doubt, be generous in spirit, you might say, the guys made a mistake in thinking one or two people of a group of 8 are carrying weapons. (Even so, isn't it customary to give warning? Drop your weapons or we'll fire? But never mind.) I saw the Hurt Locker. I understand they might have been paranoid.

Here is where this horror movie guts you. One of the 8 people fired on (and remember, only 3 people were mistakenly identified as weapon-carriers--5 were unarmed collateral damage) is gravely wounded and trying to crawl out of the "battlefield." The soldier asks for permission to fire on this obviously injured person, looking for an excuse to fire. Then a van full of people pull up. Two unarmed men get out to carry this injured man into their van.

The soldiers get permission to fire on the van full of civilians, wounding 2 children sitting in the front passenger seat. Now there was no mistaken identification of weapons here. They just fired on a van of people who stopped to help a man we injured on the street.

When the children were discovered later, soldiers tried to evacuate them to a US base hospital to be treated. Command tells them to send them to a local hospital.

I know it is hard to watch, but I think the least we Americans can do, we Americans who pay taxes to fund this operation, is to watch it. For the sake of the people who were murdered. Watch it and be outraged.

If it were you, would't you want people to know? The people who are paying for the guns and the chopper that killed you?

-----
"I was aiming for his head." -- Richard Castle, Season 2, Episode 18, "Boom"

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:40 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

The cite states:

"Consequently, WikiLeaks has released the classified Rules of Engagement for 2006, 2007 and 2008, revealing these rules before, during, and after the killings."

I am unable to find these on WikiLinks. Anyone seen them?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:42 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Double post. Oops.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, April 5, 2010 7:56 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I am unable to find these on WikiLinks. Anyone seen them?

They are on the project website: collateralmurder.com

http://collateralmurder.com/en/resources.html

-----
"I was aiming for his head." -- Richard Castle, Season 2, Episode 18, "Boom"

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Tuesday, April 6, 2010 7:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

This ain't the half of it, there's another massacre they just copped to where our troops went and cut the bullets outta the civvies in an effort to deny culpability

Just in case of any dispute...
Here is the writeup on that one.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/04/05-2
"US special forces soldiers dug bullets out of their victims' bodies in the bloody aftermath of a botched night raid, then washed the wounds with alcohol before lying to their superiors about what happened."

So this isn't just, yanno, the typical caught in the crossfire kinda stuff, or heat of the moment, it's willful, knowing malice, complete with coverup and lies foisted by a compliant, and complicit media all too willing to quote press reports as if they were the sacred word.

While our forces go out of their way to kill any newsies not on the payroll, and the pentagon plants phony bullshit stories to back their cause.

We're not the good guys, and I think it's time we stopped pretending to be.

-Frem

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Tuesday, April 6, 2010 9:05 AM

HKCAVALIER

CTS,

I'm sorry for prolonging the thread-jack. When I got home from work last night it looked like the whole RWED had been jacked by the Gino/Nikki business.

I feel as you do. This is what war does to people. As I understand it, this is what war invariably does to people. Dehumanization and desensitization are PART OF THE PROGRAM. There is no war without it. This is why more of our soldiers are committing suicide right now than are dying in combat.

I wish to god everyone simply understood this. Seeing people of good conscience talk as if war doesn't create 800 long term, catastrophic problems to solve one is extremely, morally exhausting.

We are so obsessed with the victims, but the real damage, the damage that will have the most horrendous consequences for the human race as a whole, is the violence done to the perpetrators' humanity by their own actions. That we sanction training human creatures to perform this kind of evil, systematically and unreservedly, is the single most shameful thing the human species needs to face.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, April 6, 2010 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
That we sanction training human creatures to perform this kind of evil, systematically and unreservedly, is the single most shameful thing the human species needs to face.

(SNARK MODE /ON)
Oh, but it's all ok, cause the Government says so, right ?

Right ?

*hisssss*

-F

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Tuesday, April 6, 2010 6:27 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Reuters is often a cover for MI6. These photojournalists may have been British spies specifically targeted by US forces, as done to assassinate dozens of journalists in Iraq to shut them up. British special forces routinely bomb and snipe US troops in Operation Northwoods/Gladio attacks. Or they were spies for USA who accidentally got caught in the kill zone.

This is not a war. Congress never declared war, so there's no commander-in-chief.

This is an extra-judicial police action by criminals who infiltraited govt. Just like Al Capone, who employed 4,000 govt employees just in the Chicago area.

If you want to stop the 'war', only 9/11 Truth can do that, since that's the 'justification' for Afghanistan and Iraq War #2. Only 9/11 Truth and Operation Northwoods can stop a soldier dead in his tracks.

As for these psychokiller pilots, that's the kind of aholes my wife and I filed felony charges against during Iraq War #1. They don't just love their job of killing civilians, they're in love with it, especially when it gets them promoted to general. Hence the death threat recorded on our phone. Pat Tillman was an idiot for not reading my website on how to survive fragging.
www.piratenews.org/pentagonwhistleblower.html

What's really weird is halfway through watching this snuff video, Comcast cut my internet off for 24 hours.

This was the same day Comcast won in the US Court of Appeals, allowing Comcast to throttle or block internet for its customers such as BitTorrent.

Comcast v FCC, US Court of Appeals in DC, No. 08-1291, April 6, 2010
http://www.publicknowledge.org/pdf/comcast-decision.pdf
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=1&tbs=qdr:w&q=comcast+dc+court+
appeal+fcc&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

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Tuesday, April 6, 2010 6:49 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I don't want to watch, Mal4, I don't need to seeit to find out about it. Can you explain briefly? Is this a video of American soldiers killing people? It wasn't quite clear from what you wrote. If so, that's horrendous; I hope it's made public and played worldwide, and that those involved are held responsible.

Sounds like something the Israelis would do the Palestinians...sick!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

If you voted for Obama, it's mandatory you watch this to see what your vote paid for.

If you're too cowardly to watch, then you're unfit for citizenship.

The purpose of watching is to get mad enough to DO something about it, beside whine on a forum.

Where's all those fake liberal antiwar protesters now?

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
If you voted for Obama, it's mandatory you watch this to see what your vote paid for.

It happened in 2007 PN.

Or are you saying that McCain would have done a better job at keeping the cover-up going?

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 8:49 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

It happened in 2007 PN.

Or are you saying that McCain would have done a better job at keeping the cover-up going?

Obama's Pentagon wrote a report in 2010 saying it wants to send an Apache attack chopper to chop Wikileaks into itty bitty pieces and bury them alive.

The ultimate goal of the NWO global fascist dictatorship is to send attack choppers and predator drones to massacre US citizens in USA on a daily basis, as done daily for 20 years in Iraq.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 9:22 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I'm shocked by the violence of their deaths but not by it happening. And I don't think for a second that it's isolated, or the worst, or sadly even unusual.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 9:35 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100407/ap_on_go_ot/us_us_iraq_video

Military can't find its copy of Iraq killing video...

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 9:47 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100406/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1490

Leaked video shows civilian killings in Iraq, signifies growing power of independent Web journalism

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 9:51 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I wonder if the chopper pilots' wife have quit sleeping with them as a result, possibly filing for divorce?

After all, anyone who can kill innocent civilians in Iraq can kill their own families in USA, as proven on numerous occasions.

Somebody killed 2.5-million Iraqis before returning to USA...

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I'm shocked by the violence of their deaths but not by it happening. And I don't think for a second that it's isolated, or the worst, or sadly even unusual.

Indeed. What infuriates me most is the blatant lie of the official report. Every little detail. To quote the official story in the NY Times at the time:

"According to the statement, American troops were conducting a raid when they were hit by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades. The American troops called in reinforcements and attack helicopters. In the ensuing fight..."

Lie lie and lie. The choppers were hovering about. They were not called in. No action was happening where these men - the men who were killed - were gathered. And the choppers were was definitely NEVER fired upon. These guys were out looking to kill. They said as much. They wanted the wounded man to reach for a gun so they'd have an excuse to finish him off.

You're right Pizmo. A group capable of writing the fiction of that report, after seeing that video, is capable of anything. It's pretty damned likely - a sure thing even - that they've written plenty more.

Has anyone heard of any investigation following from this? Is it too soon? Or does the military just really not care that much?

BTW, talked to my nephew today. He's scheduled to go to Afghanistan in about a year. A helicopter mechanic, so hopefully he won't see combat. Dear god, I hope he doesn't. I don't want to see him twisted by fear and violence into acting like these soldiers did. The wounds of war aren't just physical, huh? I wonder if these men have nightmares about those kids they shot, or if they're so hardened they don't even think about it.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100406/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1490

Leaked video shows civilian killings in Iraq, signifies growing power of independent Web journalism

Good point OTB. I think wikileaks is fantastic. Before they closed up for lack of funds, I got a whole bunch of info about Scientology from them, including a bio of Hubbard taken from materials in the "church"s own archives. Also a novel about the whacked police and politicians in Smith County TX. And, of course, several fun little scandals and such.

I hope wikileaks gets up and running again soon. What they're doing is truly amazing.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 11:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, it sickens me, too, and I too have no doubt it's not the only incident by far!

Hey PiN-head; this was in 2007, remember? That was under Dumbya's watch, and I WAS out marching and protesting at that time, thank you--were you?

You can also shut up about my not being able to watch the atrocities meaning I'm cowardly; I don't have to watch videos of childhood sex abuse or any kind of animal abuse to know it's inhuman and unforgiveable, idiot. I know about them; that's sufficient.

But then this'll probably bring a response to the effect of me being some kind of terrorist or lesbian or jewish or comrade or somesuch idiocy; do your thing, it means nothing.

The only fascist here is you:

Quote:
1 : a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

You're the perfect little tin dictator, and you obviously exalt "nation" and racism above individual!

One of the reasons there probably aren't as many protests nowadays (I'm not talking to you PiN-head, so go away please) is that Obama has set timetables for pullouts of both Iraq and Afghanistan...if he doesn't pull out as promised, watch the demonstrations pop up all over the place.

Not that I don't want us out sooner, but Dumbya was pushing his little war for all he was worth with no end in sight; Obama's made it clear he wants OUT (as did Dumbya toward the end, but he was forced into it by the Iraqis). We'll see what happens.

The cover-ups enrage me, too; it's bad enough when something goes wrong...whether deliberately or by accident, the people have the right to know the truth! Our military's been doing this shit all along; I don't know how we even go about stopping them. Remember the atrocities of Vietnam? Remember them making a "hero" of that guy killed in friendly fire? Or the woman who was cared for at an Iraqi hospital, but we were told she was "saved"?

One of my favorite bumperstickers was "Iraq: Arabic for Vietnam" and "Iraq: Quagmire Accomplished!" We never belonged there in the first place, needless to say, and I'm afraid both countries will revert to what they were (or worse) when we leave.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 12:19 PM

BYTEMITE

Hey, M4P, I noticed your throw away line about "The Family" and looked into it. Interesting, do you mean the Washington D.C. Christian group?

I haven't had a chance to watch the video, I plan to though. The transcript... Yeah. Not good. ._.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 12:31 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
The choppers were hovering about. They were not called in. No action was happening where these men - the men who were killed - were gathered. And the choppers were was definitely NEVER fired upon.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any cites for this information? Any proof that the gunships weren't called in? Any evidence that there was no fire on Coalition troops from the area the men were assembled in? Anything to show that the helicopters weren't fired on before the video clip started?

The video is pretty strong stuff, and the attack on the van is troubling, but the whole clip is without context. What was the situation prior to the video? What was going on out of the frame of the video? No one knows.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 1:16 PM

BYTEMITE

Hmm. I think no matter WHAT the context is, shooting kids then denying them the best care possible is not okay.

As for context, knowing that could at least create some kind of understanding as to WHY the soldiers did what they did, or were acting why they did. But I'm not sure that can make these deaths right. They mistook (or claimed) at least four people for enemy combatants who were unarmed and not a threat.

The question is whether this is an accident or a malicious act, either way it's a BAD fuck-up in operating procedure and a tragedy.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 1:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
The choppers were hovering about. They were not called in. No action was happening where these men - the men who were killed - were gathered. And the choppers were was definitely NEVER fired upon.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any cites for this information? Any proof that the gunships weren't called in?

From the very beginning of the video, there is nothing happening in the area where these particular men were standing. They did NOT fire at the helicopters as reported. They didn't even look for cover when the helicopters were overhead. They showed absolutely no sign that they were any threat.

Sure, perhaps there was some other gunplay happening that day, and that's why the choppers patrolled. (Edited to be clear: the official report made it sound like these choppers joined a battle already happening. That clearly was not the case!) But I would have hoped that the most advanced military in the world would make sure they were going after the actual culprits, rather than getting in posse mode and going after the first convenient group of bystanders they found.

Because that is EXACTLY what they did.

These soldiers were out to have their video game fun by killing Iraqis. If you have any doubt, watch it again. (Did you watch it?) The gunner was begging the wounded man - who was one the Reuters reporters - to pick up a gun so he could shoot him some more. As if a pistol in the hand of a man who can barely move is a threat to a military helicopter! It's BS. These guys had bloodlust. Nothing else.

And if we're putting our soldiers in a situation where the only way they can feel safe is to murder a group of non-threats, including CHILDREN, our soldiers sure as hell should not be there. We're doing nothing but creating a new generation of terrorists and turning our own bright youth into blood-thirsty murderers.

Edit to add: the official report said "Oh, we don't know how those poor kids got shot!" As if... some stray bullets went into their day care accidentally. Surely from the terrorists guns, not ours! Absolute bullshit. In the video, US soldiers find the wounded girl, and call for help. The guy in the chopper, the one who shot her, says oh well.

I think that guy probably does have nightmares. He shouldn't have been in that situation. None of our soldiers should.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 1:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hey, M4P, I noticed your throw away line about "The Family" and looked into it. Interesting, do you mean the Washington D.C. Christian group?

I did mean that. I started a thread that didn't go far, but it has lots and lots of links. Here:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=42548

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 2:46 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
The choppers were hovering about. They were not called in. No action was happening where these men - the men who were killed - were gathered. And the choppers were was definitely NEVER fired upon.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any cites for this information? Any proof that the gunships weren't called in? Any evidence that there was no fire on Coalition troops from the area the men were assembled in? Anything to show that the helicopters weren't fired on before the video clip started?

The video is pretty strong stuff, and the attack on the van is troubling, but the whole clip is without context. What was the situation prior to the video? What was going on out of the frame of the video? No one knows.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

The situation and cites and the context?
I think HKC's "this is what happens to men/women when you train them to kill and then put them in a kill zone with civilians and combatants" is the situation/cite/context. I think it's ludicrous and hypocritical to try and charge these people - I know that will be frowned on - but the ones that need to take the blame for this are not the guys who would otherwise be painting their second bedroom or doing yard work back home, but the ones that put them in those effed positions in the first place, to put them in places where their world gets turned upside down and they're not the same people, where their mistakes end up killing people.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 2:59 PM

BYTEMITE

I'm watching it. I dunno, it's bizarre. On one hand, I can see how at a distance over the shoulder bags and... I think another guy had a sweater and another some kind of stick, they were all dark and elongate. I can see how that could be mistaken.

...But the lying about being under fire... Hmm.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 4:21 PM

Agreed, Piz - with every freakin word of that.

-F

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 4:26 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I think no matter WHAT the context is, shooting kids then denying them the best care possible is not okay.

As noted, I do have problems with shooting up the van, but if you look at the video without Wikileak's captions, would you know there were kids there? I expect that Iraqi kids shot by ether side get sent to Iraqi hospitals. Probably because there's only so much capacity the Coalition hospitals can handle.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 4:42 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
From the very beginning of the video, there is nothing happening in the area where these particular men were standing. They did NOT fire at the helicopters as reported.

But what happened before the beginning of the video? Why would the Apaches have folks in their video before they were fired on? If they were called because folks had been firing on ground forces would that be on the chopper's video? Context.

Quote:
They didn't even look for cover when the helicopters were overhead. They showed absolutely no sign that they were any threat.

Effective range of the guns on an Apache is almost a mile. Max range is almost 3 miles. Can you see or hear a helicopter 1 to 3 miles away?

Quote:
But I would have hoped that the most advanced military in the world would make sure they were going after the actual culprits, rather than getting in posse mode and going after the first convenient group of bystanders they found.

Because that is EXACTLY what they did.

Proof?

Mal. It may be exactly as you say, or it may not. You really don't know. All you have is a video edited by folks with an agenda. You do not have all the facts. I don't have any problem with asking for more investigation of what happened that day, but coming up with a guilty verdict based on much less than all the information is just a lynching.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, April 7, 2010 5:24 PM