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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
A year from now you'l wished you'd noticed.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Do you see implications?

The new Russia under Putin and Medvedev are feeling their nationalistic oats. OTOH, Poland hews VERY closely to the USA line... their ties to the USA are far closer than any other nations' in the region. (I feel sorry for the Poles. But they're religious like the USA, and stupid like the USA.)

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And Poland has very little that Russia wants. It's STILL a backwards economy. Farmers still plow with horses. Vast areas are contaminated by mine tailings and industrial pollution. There is no oil and not much coal. The only relevance that Poland has to Russia is strategic: A change in government might mean that the USA could not base its missiles in Poland.

So what? It's NEW policy by the USA to place forward-based missiles in Europe. Reversing that policy would mean we stand pat.

The whole cost/benefit to Russia just doesn't seem to work out. Unless you seem something I don't see, in which case- please inform us!

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Give it a year. Time will tell.

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Give it a year. Time will tell.

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In other words, you got nothing except suspicion.

Rappy, sometimes shit happens.

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But I'll mark it in my calendar. In a year, I'll get back with you to discuss if anything has changed except (possibly) forward-based US missiles, and then we can see if it traces back to Russia.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Rappy, sometimes shit happens. As it turns out, all of the stuff you thought Saddam was doing (stockpiling WMD, shipping arms off to Syria, developing nuclear weapons) was nothing more than paranoid fantasy. But I'll mark it in my calendar. In a year, I'll get back with you to discuss if anything has changed except (possibly) forward-based US missiles, and then we can see if it traces back to Russia.

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Nothing HAS to 'trace back to Russia' for there to be some benefit to them.

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Did Obama, Soros (Schwartz) and the Global Elite Kill Polish President Kaczynski?

Not only did Poland decline to be a victim of the bankster loan sharking operation, Poland’s central bank had the audacity to offer the IMF a loan to “help other countries overcome the effects of the global crisis,” the AFP reported on March 29, 2010.

Poland was the only member of the 27-nation European Union to have experienced growth in 2009 and the IMF forecast that its economy would expand by 2.75 percent this year and by 3.25 percent in 2011.

Poland’s zloty grew by 1.7 percent in 2009, a remarkable feat given that European Union countries contracted by an average of 4.1 percent and no other EU economy grew at all. “Poland avoided eastern Europe’s worst lending binges. Kaczynski frustrated some of his opponents by being in no rush to head towards the euro party,” the Daily Telegraph reports today.

Earlier this month, Czech Central Bank Vice Deputy Mojmir Hampl said the IMF fueled Eastern Europe’s crisis to create a situation that would compel regional states to request the help from the globalist loan sharking operation.

“He said that the institution, which offered emergency funds for Hungary, Lithuania, Ukraine and Romania, misinterpreted some data because they are looking for new clients as the leadership changed,” HotNews reported.

Indeed, the leadership has now changed in Poland and it looks like a pro-euro political leader may replace Kaczynski. “Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s pro-euro Civic Platform party is likely to cement its grip on power in a presidential election that must now be held by June after President Lech Kaczynski died in a plane crash,” reports Bloomberg today.

In addition, Kaczynski placed a euro-skeptic ally in charge of the central bank, Slawomir Skrzypek, who was also killed in the crash.
It looks like Poland may soon join the EU Borg hive with open arms.

http://www.infowars.com/did-global-elite-kill-polish-president-kaczyns
ki/

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AIRCRASH HAS ALL THE HALLMARKS OF A 'PREPLANNED ACCIDENT'

It is most unlikely that the fatal crash shortly before 11:00 a.m. on 10th April of a Polish Government Tupolev Tu-154 aircraft near the Smolensk-Severnyi military airport, was an accident. It looked just like an accident, given that the airplane sliced treetops on its fourth attempt to land in heavy fog, disintegrating about one mile from the airport. There had been 'suggestions' that the plane should divert to Minsk. There were no survivors.

The 60-year-old President of Poland, Lech Kaczynski, was leading a delegation of highest-level Polish officials to attend memorial ceremonies at Katyn, the site of the massacre of 22,000 Poles by Soviet terrorist operatives 70 years ago.

As a consequence of that massacre in 1940 et seq., all possible sources of subsequent resistance to Soviet control in Poland were liquidated in one operation.

The casualty list of those who perished in the Tupolev Tu-154 crash on Saturday implies that Polish sources of problems considered to be intractable by Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin (Shalomov), of Soviet Military Intelligence (GRU), and Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachëv (KGB-FSB-covert Party) from his administrative wing inside the Kremlin complex, have likewise been liquidated in what can be considered to be 'the second Katyn Massacre'.

THE KEY FIGURES IDENTIFIED AMONG THE CASUALTIES

Among the dead were the following:

· Blasik, Andrzej, Chief of the Polish Air Force.
· Bochenek, Krystyna, Deputy Speaker of the Polish Senate.
· Chodakowski, Archbishop Miron, Orthodox Ordinary of the Polish Army.
· Deptula, Leszek, Member of the Sejm (Lower House of Parliament).
· Dolniak, Grzegorz, Member of the Sejm.
· Fetlinska, Janina, Member of the Polish Senate.
· Gagor, General Franciszek, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff.
· Gesicka, Grazyna, Member of the Sejm.
· Gosiewski, Przemyslaw, Member of the Sejm.
· Handzlik, Mariusz, Undersecretary of State in President's Office.
· Jaruga-Nowacka, Izabela, Member of the Sejm.
· Karpiniuk, Sebastian, Member of the Sejm.
· Karweta, Vice Admiral Andrzej, Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Navy.
· Kaczynski, Lech, President of the Republic of Poland.
· Kaczynski, Mrs, wife of the President of the Republic.
· Kochanowski, Janusz, Polish Ombudsman for Citizen Rights.
· Kremer, Andrzej, Polish Deputy Foreign Minister.
· Kurtyka, Janusz, Historian and President of the Institute of National Remembrance.
· Natalli-Swiat, Aleksandra, Member of the Sejm.
· Nurowski, Piotr, President of the Polish Olympic Committee.
· Plazynski, Maciej, President of the Polish Community Association.
· Ploski, Tadeusz, Bishop of the Military Ordinariate of the Polish Army.
· Przewoznik, Andrzej, Secretary-General, Council for Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites.
· Putra, Krzysztof, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm.
· Rumianek, Ryszard, Rector of the Cardinal Stefan Wyszynski University.
· Rybicki, Arkadiusz, Member of the Sejm.
· Skrzypek, Slawomir, President of the National Bank of Poland.
· Stasiak, Wladyslaw, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland.
· Szczyglo, Aleksander, Head of the National Security Bureau.
· Szmajdzinski, Jerzy, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm.
· Szymanek-Deresz, Jolanta, Member of the Sejm.
· Walentynowicz, Anna, free trade union activist, member of Solidarity (Solidarity heroine).
· Wassermann, Zbigniew, Member of the Sejm.
· Woda, Wieslaw, Member of the Sejm.
· Wojtas, Edward, Member of the Sejm.
· Wypych, Pawel, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland.
· Zajac, Stanislaw, Member of the Senate
and several other Members of the Sejm.

ALL POLAND'S TOP PEOPLE WIPED OUT IN ONE HIT
To recapitulate, Poland lost, in addition to the President of the Polish Republic and his wife:

· The Chief of the Polish Air Force.
· The Chief of the Polish Army General Staff.
· The Commander-in-chief of the Polish Navy.
= ALL THE MILITARY SERVICE CHIEFS.

· The head of Polish Intelligence (National Security Bureau).

· The three top officials inside the Office of the President of the Republic.

· The Governor of the National Bank of Poland.

· The Deputy Foreign Minister of Poland.

SUSPICIOUS TIMING AND OVERHAUL THE OLD SOVIET TU-154

Moreover the timing of this 'planned accident' is highly suspicious. For starters, the 25-year-old aircraft had undergone a complete overhaul at a factory in southern Russia late last year, being delivered to the Polish authorities in December 2009.

This makes a planned malfunction likely, especially given that the Katyn massacre ceremony, to be held 70 years after the atrocity, was of course 'known in advance'.

Issues contemporaneous with this catastrophe include:

· Most conspicuously, the peak level of intergovernmental tensions surrounding the disposition and settlement of diverted and stolen funds, given not least that Poland was exploited during the Bush II Administration, when the US Ambassador to Poland was a known George W. Bush crony (to go into no further details here) and Polish institutions were flooded with the proceeds of illicit off-balance sheet trades leveraged off diverted and stolen funds.

· The projected use of the Polish Army's Ustka-Wicko base as a possible site for US missile interceptors. Russia objected strongly and suspended participation in the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe.

· Contracts for Western aircraft.

LONG ARM OF RUSSIA'S CLENCHED FIST DEPLOYED

Historically, when Poland tries to align itself with the West, Russia has deployed the long arm of its clenched fist starting with the Katyn massacre of thousands of Polish officers and key political leaders, so that come the Russian occupation, there was minimal opposition from Poles trying to defend their freedom.

In 1943, Polish General Sikorski's plane crashed, and the General was killed, off Gibraltar, around the time of the Tehran Conference that set the scene for the catastrophic Yalta Conference, which consigned Poland to Soviet control after the war.

And exiled Polish leaders who returned home after the war were 'tried' and executed in the late 1940s and early 1950s by the Soviets and by their Polish puppet Communist governments.

Similar peculiarities were noted elsewhere in Eastern Europe: for instance, the Czech President suddenly 'committed suicide' in 1948 by jumping off a balcony immediately ahead of free elections which never happened.

Now we have the instant liquidation, in one operation, of the Polish President and his wife, the chiefs of the three Polish military services, the Polish Intelligence Chief, the three top officials from the late Polish President's Office (who knew everything), and the Governor of the National Bank of Poland killed in an old Soviet aircraft which had undergone a 'complete overhaul' in a southern Russian factory only four months earlier.

The German DVD 'Black agency' is known for its expertise in fiddling with aircraft controls to procure delayed crashes. It is a 'talent' shared with its secret allies, the covert Soviet GRU-KGB.

Key signatories required for crucial contemporaneous financial undertakings would of course have been those of the President and the Governor of the National Bank of Poland.

No wonder the Russian President, Dmitry Medvedev (Menakhem Aaronovich Mendel') appointed GRU-Prime Minister Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin (Shalomov) to head a commission to 'investigate' the crash despatching the Russian Minister for Emergency Situations, the well-known 'former' Communist apparatchik Sergei Shoigu, to the crash site.

· Any evidence of pre-planned delayed sabotage will need to have been identified and removed from the scene smartish.

http://www.worldreports.org/news/283_polands_
suspicious_second_katyn_massacre_tragedy

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Originally posted by Niki2:

"Lawn darts"...I love it! Also "evolution in action", eh? Personally, I don't understand the idiocy of putting them all on one plane...! We avoid doing that sort of stupidity, but then maybe we've been at it longer, I dunno. It just seems stupid and like any child would know better...!

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
On their way to Russia, during " thick fog " , huh?

I wonder if SAM's are still as effective in thick fog..hmmm.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
And Poland has very little that Russia wants. It's STILL a backwards economy. Farmers still plow with horses. Vast areas are contaminated by mine tailings and industrial pollution.

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There is no oil and not much coal.

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The whole cost/benefit to Russia just doesn't seem to work out. Unless you seem something I don't see, in which case- please inform us!

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


If there's any malice, it'd be on behalf of the folks who put all of those people on the same plane, which is worth investigating, sure.

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