A question for you Obama anti-philes: Why do you hate America? by chrisisall

So, the answer is... no answer, eh?

In the immortal words of Herman Ferguson from Judge Dredd, "Pussies! Is that all you've got??"

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 9:09 AM

I'm psychologically mandated to be angry with the government. It's in my alignment class.

If they were to ever disappear, I would stand up from the computer, step outside my fortress of hatred, look up at the sky, and turn into a fine dust on the wind. There might be singing, as all the stars in the universe sparkle out an incomprehensible symphony in light, but I would no longer be able to hear it.

Or I'd eat a strawberry.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm psychologically mandated to be angry with the government. It's in my alignment class.

I'm chaotic good. Which seats me in Frem's row, I suppose.
But YOU, Byte, must be some sort of Mal-content.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 9:38 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte: I love it! Thanx for my first giggle of the morn.

I see there's no response from those to whom you directed the question, Chris; I can all but guarantee if you get anything, it'll be snarks, responses having nothing to do with the topic, or opinions given out as fact as to why Obama is so horrendous.

I wouldn't bother asking, personally; it's obvious the bias is so deeply ingrained in their "minds" that no facts will change it, nothing Obama does will change it, and the next time a Dumbya gets in office, they'll love most everything he does, even if it's the same sort of thing Obama is doing now for the good of the country. Because Obama's doing it, it must be Socialist/Nazi/Communist/Facist, or whatever fits at the moment. It's as simple as that.

I consider them Obama-HATEophiles, personally. Deaf, dumb and blind hateophiles, as it were. Attempting to change their minds/reason with them/present facts is a waste of time. Not that I don't do it, but I do it more to counter their ClusterFox pablum for others; I know there's no getting through to them.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, April 19, 2010 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

I see there's no response from those to whom you directed the question, Chris; I can all but guarantee if you get anything, it'll be snarks

I post for fun, not enlightenment here, Niki. If I get a serious response, I'll be overjoyed. In the mean time I simply aim to misbehave.

I hate America for the Iran-Contra mess.
I hate Russia for the Cuban Missile Crisis.
I hate my Dad for makin' me go to bed too early as a kid.
I hate myself for makin' myself eat too much pizza.

Can you hate that which you love for something out of your control?

Compartmentalization is the root of evil, the beginning of "Us vs. Them."

Division of the one which is this planet & all in and on it leads us to lonely depression & anger.

Pontification by Chrisisall leads to a sense of non-importance & humility.

Okay, seriously, bottom line: We love our countries in spite of the flaws we wish to correct.

OOPS! Sorry haters, I do not mean to offend!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 11:13 AM

Yeah, this won't go much of anywhere Chris. You see, The Bushites/Palinistas/Teabaggers of the world have these handy rules:

1. I am always right.
2. I am a true American.
3. Anyone who disagrees with me is therefore, by definition, un-American.

And I'm not posting empty snark here. Palin said it and some of our more head-up-assed conservative friends here in RWED have repeated it many times. Being an American is not enough to qualify one to be an American. That 51.1 and 49.9% (or whatever) that voted against Bush? Oh, they don't count. That majority who wants a public option for health care? Not real Americans. Those who give any of Obama's policies a chance? Obviously those aren't citizens of the REAL America.

It's really quite a beautiful system. These O'Reilly/Rush/Beck lovers dismiss anyone who disagrees with them so they can bask in the peace and joy of having everyone in perfect agreement. No need to ever question or doubt a thing.

Must be so nice... If you have the energy to continue the fight against reality, that is. Takes some intense mental gymnastics to keep up the ploy, as we have daily witness on this site.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Yeah, this won't go much of anywhere Chris. You see, The Bushites/Palinistas/Teabaggers of the world have these handy rules:

1. I am always right.
2. I am a true American.
3. Anyone who disagrees with me is therefore, by definition, un-American.

Funny, MY rules are:

1. I am always hopefully right.
2. I am a true American.
3. Anyone who disagrees with me is therefore, by definition, not-agreeing with me.
4. Present facts & I will consider them.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 12:01 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahhh, sorry, I thought you were serious.

Lessee, my rules would be:

1. I want to know what's right.
2. I'm a person first, but glad I live in America and love it enough to try and improve it.
3. Anyone who disagrees with me sensibly, I might learn something from.
4. If I find facts refuting what I believe, I have to give it a lot of thought...and hopefully seek out more facts to decide.

Fun. I guess I live in the greys. We should all do it...much more fun than trying to figure out how RWAs think, which isn't really possible anyway.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, April 19, 2010 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
3. Anyone who disagrees with me is therefore, by definition, not-agreeing with me.

You rebel you.

Here's the thing Niki, which is slightly related to the financial reform thread you have going. Yes, I'm pissed about the caving too, but I have to remind myself: Obama is trying to be un-Bush. Obama is trying to recall that, as President of the whole of the USofA, he has to represent those who did not vote for him, just as much as he represents those who did.

I was truly amazed when Bush got voted in with 50.2% (or something) in 2004. He made announcements of how he had "a clear majority" and should do as he wished, as if that 49.8% didn't exist. This pisses me off about American politcs - the winner take all thing. I don't want Obama to be like that. No matter that it makes for a mess and non-ideal solutions. I just don't ever want to support that approach.

So the Republicans are the party of No and they're idiots. That makes American a large percent of No-saying-idiots. Our policies should reflect that.

If we want better policies, we should try to be better, more informed people. And if we can't get there, perhaps we should fail so a better system can take the place of ours.

So, at the moment anyway, my rule is:

1. Reality first, even if reality sucks

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Monday, April 19, 2010 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
BUT, if I dislike an administration or its policies, I must hate America, so the question is, will you Neo-conistas stop hating your country next time a fellow fascist gets into office?

Seriously, I hate what America's becoming. I've hated it for a long time.

For example, what is this bullshit?

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/17/torture/i
ndex.html

Enemy Belligerent Interrogation, Detention and Prosecution Act? Are you serious? Really? Is this what we've become?

What about this? An assassination program for Americans? Go straight to Death? Do not pass jail?

http://www.alternet.org/world/146491/%22i_don%27t_support_it,_period.%
22_why_is_kucinich_the_only_dem_calling_out_obama%27s_plan_to_assassinate_a_u.s._citizen

And this? A million Iraqis dead and counting. And as a country, we are all still making excuses for why we are there, killing more everyday.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/1957-howling-wind-th
e-unrepented-genocide.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:%20empire_burlesque%20%28Empire%20Burlesque%20-%20Chris%20Floyd%29

I don't hate Americans or the American culture or our American heritage. But I hate what Americans are letting their government do to this country. It's been getting worse and worse for a long time. Obama's worse than Bush II, who was worse than Clinton, who was worse than Bush I, who was worse than Reagan, who was worse... you get the idea. It's a relay race to the bottom, and not a one of them is trying to roll that stone back uphill.

-----
"I was aiming for his head." -- Richard Castle, Season 2, Episode 18, "Boom"

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Monday, April 19, 2010 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
1. Reality first, even if reality sucks

My rules are these:

1. Believe in Americans. Believe they can solve problems on their own, like the grown ups they are, without a big daddy or super nanny government.

2. Believe in everyone else. They can solve problems too, without our government meddling in their countries.

3. America is about freedom, self-sufficiency, and resourcefulness. It is about compassion, generosity, and community. It is about diversity, dissent, and cooperation.

4. Paranoia, warmongering, and Glenn Beck are un-American. Don't support the un-American, though they should have every right to be un-American. Just don't support it.

-----
"I was aiming for his head." -- Richard Castle, Season 2, Episode 18, "Boom"

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Monday, April 19, 2010 1:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
4. Paranoia, warmongering, and Glenn Beck are un-American. Don't support the un-American, though they should have every right to be un-American. Just don't support it.

Won't disagree about not supporting Beck. I'm there.

But paranoia is un-American? Well, it'd be nice if it wasn't true, but looking at the evidence...

It's like folks in so Cal or Texas saying that all them damned Hispanics aren't American. "That ain't America! America is all about bein' a white god-fearing suburbanite Martha-Stewart wannabee!" So what will these folks do when a majority of the local voting population is Hispanic in origin? Like it or not, non-white is the up and coming American.

Not trying to suggest that you're racist CTS, because I know you're not. Just saying that what's there is there, whether we like it or not. Paranoia? Oh yeah. Ignorance? In spades. Inflated superiority? No doubt. Flat out stupid? Hey - we voted in GWB not once but TWICE, or at least came close enough for SCOTUS and the voting machines to do the rest.

I hate it and I'll try to change this crap by not being that way myself, but that's how a large part of America is, right now.

I'm feeling pessimistic tonight. It'll pass. Maybe.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 1:11 PM

OR you could join me. I stocked my safe room with with BEEF!

Well, beef flavoured corn kibble.

It's one of the most popular foods in Cambodia. And a doctor endorsed it's nutritional value. A doctor of astrology! So it's space aged and futuristic and stuff.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 1:14 PM

My scurvy has scurvy.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
My scurvy has scurvy.

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm laughing anyway.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm laughing anyway.

Vitamin C lack.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 1:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm laughing anyway.

Vitamin C lack.

The laughing Chrisisall

Oh - of course!

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Monday, April 19, 2010 2:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:

1. Believe in Americans. Believe they can solve problems on their own, like the grown ups they are, without a big daddy or super nanny government.

LOL! You slay me!
Half of all humans on this planet are inept! Grown-ups?
Puhhleeeze.
Grups are just children in suits or work boots.

Most "adults" don't even know what trans-fats are.
Most "adults" don't know where Iraq is.

So government is not to educate, eh?

Another perfect example of the compartmentalized thinking that separates women from equal pay, black peeps from white, & kids from recognized individuals.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 2:48 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

They CAN solve problems on their own, Chris. It's just that 99 times out of 100, they DON'T solve them. They ignore them until they blow up. Slavery. Civil War. Economic meltdowns like the "Great" Depression, which was really just another in a long line of boom-n-bust cycles.

Revisionist historians will claim that slavery was going to end on its own within a generation of when the Civil War broke out. Which is no doubt why it was 99 years later when the federal government finally had to tell Southerners that black people could indeed vote and go to the same schools as white folks.

Social Security *IS* going to be a problem in this country. Which is why, of course, we'll do absolutely nothing about it until it's far too late. It's the American Way!

I fully expect we'll deal with the problem of global climate change, too, once it's already completely out of control.

Procrastination: Because if the planet ends tomorrow, you won't have wasted your time trying to do anything productive!

I have a dim view of Americans. To compare them to children is unfair in the extreme. Most children can learn, and are eager to do so. Most Americans, on the other hand, will hit you right in the face for trying to teach them... well, ANYTHING. Or they'll just shoot you.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Monday, April 19, 2010 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

I have a dim view of Americans. To compare them to children is unfair in the extreme. Most children can learn, and are eager to do so.

So what makes American children turn into adult dopes, in your opinion?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 3:24 PM

That, my friend, is a question for the ages.

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Monday, April 19, 2010 3:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
That, my friend, is a question for the ages.

Advertising.

That's my call.

We *need* to be pretty, to have nice rides, to live great- all despite actually being HEALTHY, changing the oil once in a while, and appreciating our lot.

I am an EPIC FAIL as far as consumerist fare is concerned.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, April 19, 2010 5:22 PM

Apparently so am I. I tend to buy cars that have already depreciated, and then drive 'em into the ground. The only time I go into a McDonald's is if I'm on the road and need to take a crap. Last time I did that (yesterday), when I came out of the bathroom and headed for the door, the old guy behind the counter said the restrooms were for customers only. So I told him I was just returning a Big Mac. :)

I'm a sucker for my electronic gadgets, though. Got the iPod touch, and STILL want the iPad. And the iPhone. What can I say? I have a need to be connected, it seems...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Monday, April 19, 2010 5:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm psychologically mandated to be angry with the government. It's in my alignment class.

If they were to ever disappear, I would stand up from the computer, step outside my fortress of hatred, look up at the sky, and turn into a fine dust on the wind. There might be singing, as all the stars in the universe sparkle out an incomprehensible symphony in light, but I would no longer be able to hear it.

Or I'd eat a strawberry.

I'll have you know, that sent me into complete hysterics when I read it..

It *IS* kind of a Pavlovian effect though, isn't it ?

I had a kind of "what-now?!" mental crisis when the Hellcamps folded last Feb and I handed things off to Justin - I start to go loopy without some butts to kick, alas that the world seems to have no end of idiotic, malicious folk with "ideas" who need that.

I wonder what I'd do if I ran outta those tho, cause I really don't have any idea any more.

As for "america", I believe in the *idea* of america, the concepts it was supposedly founded on, even if about half the guys sayin so were lying through their teeth from the start - but I sure hell don't care for it's culture or government, since those things are in direct opposition to the concepts and principles of it's founding.

-Frem

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Monday, April 19, 2010 7:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA

On a more topical note: lemme boil it down for ya, Chris...

Obviously the Righties have zero intention of reaching across the aisle, come on, we've seen that played out time and time again - and the Lefties are busy digging in, leastways the ones with any sense are, and as to why *they* are not reaching out instead ?

Boils down to just one notion, and imma sum it up for you nice and easy.

"Ain't no point in pettin a rabid dog, son."

End result of this is as obvious as it is inevitable.

-Frem

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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:31 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mal, if we’re going to talk about the Tea Partiers, they reflect 18% of Americans. I don’t find that a big enough number for them to have a major say. If you add in Republicans, I’m sure it’s a different number, but I happen to believe a lot of these people are buying into talking points and NOT educating themselves on the issues (or why would death panels be hollered about so much, given they didn’t exist, and what they’ve turned into “death panels” was originally pushed by Republicans?).

The thing about a “clear majority” made me seethe too, I remember it all too well. For me, this “party of no” thing is about the POLITICIANS on the right deciding to do it; it doesn’t reflect all the Republicans out there, or necessarily even a majority. The option is to go along as we’ve been doing...which isn’t working. Our “representatives” (I use the word advisedly) are supposed to LEGISLATE to improve the country...do you really feel we should just continue the way we’ve been going, with no changes to health insurance, Wall Street, or ANYTHING else? I don’t. I think it’s up to government to try and FIX things, and the only logical way to do that is if both parties work together. The Republicans being so vociferous about things put into the health reform bill WHICH THEY HAD SUPPORTED, OR EVEN AUTHORED, shows me they have no intention whatsoever of doing what they’re supposed to do. It’s a political ploy, in my view, and nothing more. They’re there to do a job, not just sit on their hands and say “No” to everything. It leaves the administration no choice but to find ways around them to make the effort to improve the situation. That isn’t right.

Frem put it succinctly for me:

Quote:
"Ain't no point in pettin a rabid dog, son." End result of this is as obvious as it is inevitable.

Sky:

Quote:
Believe in Americans. Believe they can solve problems on their own, like the grown ups they are, without a big daddy or super nanny government.

I believe in Americans, in general, but it’s not about “Americans”. It’s about those who have garnered power to do whatever they want, a prime example being health insurance companies and Wall Street. WE don’t have the power THEY do, so I look to someone with power to help us balance it out. The only ones with as much power are the government; which is set up to look after the country, as in the Americans.

Quote:
America is about freedom, self-sufficiency, and resourcefulness. It is about compassion, generosity, and community. It is about diversity, dissent, and cooperation.

If everyone believed as you do, we could move ahead. I wish they did. Unfortunately, the hard-core of either party seems to see only one sentence: The right believes in the first sentence, the left in the second, and neither seems to have a very good grasp of the third.

I agree with you about warmongering and Glenn Beck fully, and find it sad they have so many sycophants who AREN’T willing to self-educate, but just swallow what people like him and FauxNews dish out, not realizing it’s to get ratings and/or further the Republican agenda. I wish people would learn for themselves...hell, if they just listened to both MSNBC AND FauxNews, they might see such a contrast that they’d want to find out what the TRUTH is...it’s a shame they don’t.

Sadly, Mike, I agree:

Quote:
we'll do absolutely nothing about it until it's far too late. It's the American Way

That goes for just about any problem in our country. I don’t blame people, to a large extent; first off, most human beings, not just Americans, are busy dealing with their own lives to have enough interest in self-educating and being involved. Second, even if they GET involved, we’re actually pretty powerless to do anything national, unless we want to run for office, and even then, change is difficult to implement.

Chris, I have little difficulty figuring out

Quote:
what makes American children turn into adult dopes, in your opinion?

Education is a time when one can focus on learning—someone else is paying the bills, it’s the child’s JOB to learn, if you can get them to. Once adults, as above, most people are too busy struggling to get by and pay the bills to have the time to self-educate or get involved, so they swallow whatever’s told them, except the rare person who cares enough to learn. Life gets in the way of having time to investigate and go on learning and growing. It’s not just Americans, it’s humans.

Quote:
Apparently so am I. I tend to buy cars that have already depreciated, and then drive 'em into the ground. The only time I go into a McDonald's is if I'm on the road and need to take a crap

Me too. Except I usually find a gas station to use the bathroom...put a buck or two I the tank, and I figure I’ve “paid” to use it. Or go into a supermarket or store—all of them have bathrooms.

But yeah, we’ve always bought used cars, and tho’ Jim takes care of his, I drive mine into the ground. I don’t buy much and tend to sneer at advertisements, but I buy some...like my computer (which is old, but I’ve got a thing against “planned obsolescence”), Jim bought me an iPod, I want nothing to do with the other crap and rarely use it, etc. We live pretty simply and don’t spend much money on “stuff”, but we used to...got tons of camera equipment made out of date by new developments (and yes, I did buy an electronic SLR, because it’s cheaper and easier than getting film developed) and motorcycles; tho’ we tend to buy those used, too, and ride ‘em for years and years. I have a “thing” against getting any new gadgets, so I guess I’m not a good little consumer.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:43 AM

Quote:
For me, this “party of no” thing is about the POLITICIANS on the right deciding to do it; it doesn’t reflect all the Republicans out there, or necessarily even a majority.

I disagree. Sure, it's the politicians deciding to shout "Hell no you can't!" at every turn, BUT THEY ARE DOING SO WITH THE FULL SUPPORT OF THEIR PARTY AND ITS PEOPLE. If John Boehner's constituents told him to knock that shit off, he would, or risk being voted out of office. The fact that they're amping up the rhetoric clearly shows that their constituents are endorsing such behavior.

Seriously, how many listeners do you think turned off Limbaugh and quit listening to him when he started shouting that "we have to destroy these people... we have to wipe them out" when referring to Democrats? One? A million? ANY? He and the others say this shit because it's what their followers want to hear. They were real big on the old "Nuke 'em 'til they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark" line of bullshit regarding Iraq a few years ago, too.

I know these people; I grew up around these people; I've lived among them. They say stupid, insipid things because they have stupid, insipid beliefs, beliefs which they will NEVER question. Hell, talk to Rappy for five minutes, and you'll see that every word I've posted here is true.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:53 AM

Y'know, Niki, I love a good SLR camera, but I haven't been able to justify the price, so I'm kinda stuck - for now, anyway - with a simple little digital point-n-shoot. But I do miss my old film cameras. Had to sell them when I moved, but it was fun going out and shooting rolls and rolls of film and developing it. Not sure I'd go back to it, though - digital just makes thins SOOOOO much easier and cheaper (once you've bought the equipment and software, anyway...)

And you're right - the day-to-day of trying to stay alive takes so much time that it's HARD to try to get informed and stay informed on the issues. I'm lucky, in that I work virtually alone, and get to set my own listening preferences, so I can listen to news and podcasts all day long, and my wife doesn't have to be subjected to it all night when I get home. But once in a while, a story will break into the national headlines, and she'll be shocked, and it throws me for a minute, because we've been talking about it for weeks already, and I tend to assume that she's as up on things as I am!

As for Mickey D's: I seek them out on purpose, just as my little form of protest, my "Eff YOU!" to them for all the damage they do. :) Maybe I'll start a movement. A "movement movement", if you will. We'll have a facebook page, flashmobs, the whole big ol' deal. :)

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:04 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

That's a toughie Mike: Self-fulfilling prophecy maybe? Like that Republicans watch FauxNews, believe it so support that attitude? I just can't believe ALL Republicans think like what they espouse...or maybe I don't WANT to, dunno...

DIGITAL! That's the word I couldn't bring up, DIGITAL cameras. Used to be just like you, the fun of having a roll come out and see what I'd got, but tho' I think digital isn't as good, nowadays I'm pretty much of a snapshot person, and loading it on the computer is sooo much easier! Lazy...well, and I can print out numerous copies without paying for them, and erase something if I don't like it right there, instead of paying for it to be developed. In that way at least I guess I'm a good little consumer...

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, April 21, 2010 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
But paranoia is un-American? Well, it'd be nice if it wasn't true, but looking at the evidence...

It's like Frem said, it wasn't what this country is founded on.

I believe in the America it has the potential to be. I believe America and Americans have the strength and intelligence and integrity to pull themselves together to reach that potential.

Right now, America has a lot of bad habits, attitude problems, and emotional baggage. But like a mother who loves her messed up teenager, I have faith that America can rise out of it if she wants to.

After 9/11, everyone was focusing on Al-Qaeda and looking for someone's ass to bomb. I just saw how incredibly generous and loving everyone was to each other. It was our worst time, but our best shone through as well.

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"I was aiming for his head." -- Richard Castle, Season 2, Episode 18, "Boom"

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
It's like Frem said, it wasn't what this country is founded on.

I believe in the America it has the potential to be. I believe America and Americans have the strength and intelligence and integrity to pull themselves together to reach that potential.

I think our system has the potential to change, which is why I don't think that "lopping off the top" is a good solution to what currently ails us. (As in: our own French Revolution to do away with those filthy rich abusers of power.) Change goes slow, but the US govt was established with the ability to change. I think it's happening now.

By which I mean: yes, I also believe in what this country was founded on. I think it's potentially a great system, though currently broken. It's greatness will prove itself if it can correct without violence.

I don't believe that Americans are better than any other people in the world. We have a large and diverse population and that could be an advantage if we weren't so divided and bigoted. But as far as individuals go, we're no smarter or more hard-working or greater-hearted than anyone else in the world.

Quote:
After 9/11, everyone was focusing on Al-Qaeda and looking for someone's ass to bomb. I just saw how incredibly generous and loving everyone was to each other.

Having a hard-time parsing that. We were joined together and feeling generous about wanting to bomb someone?

OK, I think I get the gist of what you're saying. I experienced it to - the feeling of bonding with Americans I didn't know because we'd all gone through this horrible thing together. But any group of people who've been attacked will react like that - draw together, then counter-attack. I don't see how it makes America great, or even unique. (Yes, I'm cynical.)

What would have made us great would have been NOT counter-attacking the way we did, not handing away our rights to fear-mongerers, not letting money-grubbing corporations take over the military actions, and for Heaven's sake not voting a moron and his evil handler into office a second time.

Fail. Epic fail.

Yep, Americans are just as stupid and easily manipulated as anyone else in the world.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:50 AM

Quote:
Yep, Americans are just as stupid and easily manipulated as anyone else in the world.

The biggest difference is, we call what THEY do "propaganda", but when WE do it, we call it "Fair & Balanced™".

And we pretend there's a difference between the two.

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:05 AM

Quote:
I think our system has the potential to change, which is why I don't think that "lopping off the top" is a good solution to what currently ails us. (As in: our own French Revolution to do away with those filthy rich abusers of power.) Change goes slow, but the US govt was established with the ability to change. I think it's happening now.

By which I mean: yes, I also believe in what this country was founded on. I think it's potentially a great system, though currently broken. It's greatness will prove itself if it can correct without violence.

The ability for the Roman Republic to pass resolutions and change to meet changing conditions/new problems sure helped when Caesar became Emperor. ._.

So in a sense you're right. I just tend to add if it can correct itself without violence, without first completely devolving into a full on oligarchy, and without the executive branch permanently declaring martial law.

Because so far? we're not so much heading that direction as SLIDING. That is if we aren't already an oligarchy, which I'm not at all sure about, and kind of suspect we are.

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:55 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I believe America and Americans have the strength and intelligence and integrity to pull themselves together to reach that potential.

Unfortunately, I don't. I think, like people everywhere, Americans can be propagandized and manipulated, mostly because most people ARE too busy trying to get by to put a serious effort into improving the country.

I am forced to look to the people to make the best decision they CAN to vote good people into office (which hasn't worked so well thus far) who can improve things. Given I don't believe total revolution is the answer, that's all I see left for me to do; try to be responsible myself and hope enough others do the same.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:00 AM