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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Niki, I think it's cause most folk who care at all about this issue are pretty sure the Arizona state government is quite, quite insane.

Come on, these are the folk who keep a nutter like Sheriff Joe Arpaio in power, which is about all the evidence one needs to prove it.

-F

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...it's unequivocally racial profiling

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, if you AGREE that there should be open borders, and rapists, thugs, drug runners, criminals and the like should all be granted equal access, and be lumped in with law abiding, hard working, honest and productive people..

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Originally posted by Niki2:You're not worth responding to, but what the hell: "rapists, thugs, drug runners, criminals and the like" as describing who comes across the border is rather obviously illustrative of your racist bent.

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Originally posted by Niki2:

Crapper: Nice try, but it failed.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
We already have those.

They're called Republicans.

-F

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
How is this in ANY way 'moving backwards' on civil rights ?

Seriously.

The worst part about all this is that the border states are having to do all the heavy lifting on what has become a national crisis.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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...it's unequivocally racial profiling

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Ahhh yes... the standard " IT'S RACISM " cry.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

So, if you AGREE that there should be open borders, and rapists, thugs, drug runners, criminals and the like should all be granted equal access, and be lumped in with law abiding, hard working, honest and productive people, wanting to become full fledged citizens, then you " care " about the issue ?

Really?

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...simple minds want to deduce such things to, well, the most simple of terms.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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...it's unequivocally racial profiling

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Ahhh yes... the standard " IT'S RACISM " cry.








Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Gotta love that the people bitching about Government interference will cheer on a step towards becoming a full-on police state.

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Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signs US's toughest immigration law; Obama says you ain't arresting me bitch!

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," Brewer said after signing the law. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created a dangerous and unacceptable situation."

www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/04/23/2010-04-23_president_bara
ck_obama_slams_arizona_immigration_law_as_misguided_and_a_threat_t.html#ixzz0lz9Hy55H

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Originally posted by piratenews:

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Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signs US's toughest immigration law; Obama says you ain't arresting me bitch!

"We in Arizona have been more than patient waiting for Washington to act," Brewer said after signing the law. "But decades of inaction and misguided policy have created a dangerous and unacceptable situation."

www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/04/23/2010-04-23_president_bara
ck_obama_slams_arizona_immigration_law_as_misguided_and_a_threat_t.html#ixzz0lz9Hy55H

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I say bring the US military back to USA, put em on the border, and shoot to kill.

US troops killed 2.7-million Iraqis who never set foot on USA, so it's only fair to kill 2.7-million Mexicans. Not like we haven't done it before.

If any liberal Commies want to get in the way, so be it. Kill em all, let Gaia sort em out.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

I don't see this as a "national crisis", but I'm not as fearful, paranoid, or easily manipulated as you are, either.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

I don't see this as a "national crisis", but I'm not as fearful, paranoid, or easily manipulated as you are, either.

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That you don't see this as a national crisis only shows you're not as informed as me either.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

You said "informed" where you meant "brainwashed".

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The body of Rancher Rob Krentz and his dog were found shot to death on his ranch. Krentz, who always was good-natured and willing to help people, had called in that he had found an illegal alien at one of his watering holes and was assisting him. That was the last that was heard from him before his body was discovered.
Rob Krentz was a lifelong rancher in Southeastern Arizona, 12 miles north of the U.S./Mexico border and 25 miles northeast of the city of Douglas. He was the father of three children. The ranch has been in his family for three generations, more than 100 years - since 1907, and sits on about 35,000 acres with 1,000 head of cattle. Running a ranch is hard work and with the influx of illegal aliens increasing, Rob was at ground zero of the stampede that is destroying the fragile desert landscape.

The Krentz family has received numerous threats in the past by illegal aliens trespassing on their property. In 2002, the family was physically threatened when one of them stumbled upon a group of 39 illegal aliens. They were told to get off the land and they made threats. The Border Patrol did catch the illegal aliens after they were called, but we all know that illegal aliens, if deported, come right back across.

In 1999, Krentz and his wife Susan did an interview with PBS when they came around asking about the issue of illegal immigration and its impacts on the local ranchers.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/003355.html]

Violence Surges Along U.S.-Mexico Border
by JOHN BURNETT

February 12, 2006
John Burnett reports one the recent surge of violence along the U.S.-Mexico border. In the past weeks, gunmen have fired on U.S. Border Patrol agents, Mexican drug traffickers have attacked Texas lawmen, and last week, gunmen stormed the offices of a newspaper in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5203014


Thu Apr 1, 11:11 pm ET
MEXICO CITY – Mexican officials are responding to the decision of New Mexico's governor to send more National Guard troops to the border by calling for more cooperation with the U.S. on border violence.
The Foreign Relations Department says Mexico respects the right of U.S. authorities to determine how to provide security along their side of the border, but adds that increased cooperation is the answer.
The department's Thursday statement says U.S. officials should step up efforts to curb smuggling of weapons and cash into Mexico.
New Mexico ordered more National Guardsmen to the border this week to beef up surveillance after an Arizona rancher was shot to death. Investigators believe he was killed by an illegal immigrant who fled to Mexico. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100402/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_mexico_us_bor
der_violence

You ( hopefully ) get the idea. There'a a serious issue here, as was made plain back in '06, when Bush tried to address the issue, with what amounted to blanket amnesty. America stood up and didn't WANT that as the solution.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

That you don't see this as a national crisis only shows you're not as informed as me either.

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Originally posted by Niki2:And that's the sum total of your argument. You can't offer up any substantive, reasonable reply, other than dole out insults and dismissive, personal comments.

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Wonderful; that's one I'm going to keep and throw back at you, because you do that more than anyone else here.

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As for what you cited (thank you for specifics!), nobody is arguing that there isn't a major problem on the border; there is and we all know it.

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The argument is against MAKING policemen accost anyone who LOOKS like they might be an illegal alien. It's totally absurd on the face of it; those actual criminals with the money will probably change their mode of dress, etc., and it'll be harder to recognize them...which means perfectly legal citizens will be accosted.

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The ONLY possible good that will come of this is it will push the administration to get serious about the issue. We'll see.

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But this is no solution. For one thing, anyone coming in from another state who doesn't know about the law (and there will be many; most people don't pay attention to, or remember, such things) runs the risk of being jailed because who in other states walks around with their "papers"? The guy on TV last night who said there are many ways to recognize illegals, by their dress, even their SHOES??? So, now warned, criminals can go out and buy different shoes, and only poor immigrants will wear "recognizably Hispanic" shoes. Great solution.

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I assume you're one of those who wants every illegal alien in America hunted down and deported.

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It's just not possible, it's ludicrous to think it could ever be achieved. So some kind of immunity has to be established, some kind of "back-of-the-line" thing and work program. It's not that "America" doesn't want something done, it's that those who want immigrants deported don't want it, and those who have no problem with immigrants don't want to deal with it.

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By lumping all illegal immigrants into the categories of "rapists, drug lords", etc., "and the like", you are omitting the VAST majorit of illegal immigrants and focusing only on the unsavory element, addressing the issue as if all illegal immigrants fall into that category. That is as racist as saying any cateory of people are all one thing or another. That IS racism, pure and simple. I know you can't see it, I imagine most racists can't see their own racism, but that is a perfect example of how it comes out.

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This is going to pull cops off their protective duties, require money to hire more cops, destroy the trust between the cops and their community (which is where they get a LOT of cooperation in getting the actual criminals among them), give bad and/or racist cops freedom to abuse their power, harrass actual citizens who don't carry papers because they don't know about it, forget about it, or whatever, and cause a further rift between both illegal and legal-citizen Hispanics and the rest of the citizenry. Who WOULDN'T feel persecuted if only their own race were targeted?

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This is not a good way to deal with the problem. It will cause more trouble than it solves, wait and see.

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Posted by Rappy:

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As for what you cited (thank you for specifics!), nobody is arguing that there isn't a major problem on the border; there is and we all know it.

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Well, no one except Kwickie. To which those remarks I made were directed. But fret not, I'll not lay HIS idiocy at the feet of others.

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Well,if the guy on t.v. said it, then I guess that settles it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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The argument is against MAKING policemen accost anyone who LOOKS like they might be an illegal alien. It's totally absurd on the face of it; those actual criminals with the money will probably change their mode of dress, etc., and it'll be harder to recognize them...which means perfectly legal citizens will be accosted.

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But that's not what this law does. So, while you DO have a valid claim, it's really not applicable here on this matter.

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A. NO OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY ADOPT A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW.

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

ANY "lawful contact", an attempt "SHALL BE MADE", etc. This is legalese for saying that police MUST hassle anyone they suspect of being illegal. Not "MAY be made", but "SHALL be made". There's a difference, not that I expect you'll be able to figure it out.

As usual, you're lying, making shit up where you really have no idea what you're talking about. You really should stop; you're embarrassing yourself. Not that this is a new condition for you...

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"That's legalese for saying illegal aliens can come into your house, make a sandwich and take as many cheeze its as they like"

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Crappy, damn it, did you even READ where anyone who thinks the cops AREN'T stopping (or stopping enough) potential illegal aliens can be SUED?!?!

It is a MANDATE: "an authoritative command; especially: a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one". Can you grasp that? They bloody-well BETTER do as the law mandates, or they can be involved in a lawsuit, get it??

Not that there won't be tons of lawsuits anyway, if they already haven't begun. Because it's going to wreak havoc with law-enforcement agencies statewide.

Do you understand "unfunded mandate"? It means they're REQUIRED to do something, but they're not given any funds to hire extra cops to do it; ergo, the cops they have will HAVE TO spend a certain amount of time checking out "potential illegals" on any given day, time they would otherwise be using for real crimes, BECAUSE THAT'S THE LAW.

Try, Crappy, try to understand.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Try, Crappy, try to understand.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Try, Crappy, try to understand.

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Oh, I think he understands. But he's here to piss people off, and stubborn misunderstanding works better for that.

When do we get that "ignore" feature on fff 2.0? It's the only cure for Rappy.

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