Happy Earth Day...sorta by Niki2

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I MAY be a bit naive on this matter, but it seems to me that we can raise awareness, respect for the planet, live cleaner & more responsibly, with OUT resorting to chicken little tactics of the global warming zealots.

And what zealotry would you be referring to. The enviroterrorists who have resorted to violent overthrow of the polluting capitalist pigs. Oh no, that's right. They don't exist.

In fairness, they kinda DO exist. EarthFirst is an example, burning down new housing subdivisions, "spiking" trees, vandalizing construction equipment. I agree with their motives, not their methods.

Quote:
By zealot you mean those who state their opinions and demonstrate factual data and lobby for change. Outrageous undemocratic behaviour.

Agreed. It seems anyone who stands up against polluters does so purely because they hate capitalism and they hate America.

Quote:

And by middle ground, you must surely mean 'same as it ever was' because any concessions to environmental causes is obviously zealotry in your book.

What policies do you support that would be considered beneficial to the environment?

"Drill, Baby, Drill!" I know for sure Rappy supports that environmental policy. And it's not like anything back could ever happen by drilling off the coast of, say, Louisiana...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:22 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Can you show me one time in our history when the data on ANYTHING *wasn't* politicized?

Nothing remotely rises to the level of global control over people's lives when it comes to the man made global warming scam. Nothing.

Quote:

Are you admitting that the Bush administration went overboard after 9/11? That invading Iraq was a mistake, because Saddam's WMD didn't exist? That there was a happier middle ground between invading and not?

Saddam was in violation of the U.N., as well as broke terms of the previous Gulf War cease fire. We've been over this a thousand times. Just move on.

Quote:
Point being, data ALWAYS gets politicized. It's in humans' nature, it would seem. Such politicization doesn't render the data meaningless, or nonexistent.

See response to 1st paragraph.

And per man made global warming, I'm right. The evidence says so.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:25 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I MAY be a bit naive on this matter, but it seems to me that we can raise awareness, respect for the planet, live cleaner & more responsibly, with OUT resorting to chicken little tactics of the global warming zealots.

And what zealotry would you be referring to. The enviroterrorists who have resorted to violent overthrow of the polluting capitalist pigs. Oh no, that's right. They don't exist. By zealot you mean those who state their opinions and demonstrate factual data and lobby for change. Outrageous undemocratic behaviour.

And by middle ground, you must surely mean 'same as it ever was' because any concessions to environmental causes is obviously zealotry in your book.

What policies do you support that would be considered beneficial to the environment?

Anything from the likes of Cap & Trade to the spiking of trees in old growth forests is what I consider zealotry.

, right back at ya

I find it funny that you ask a reasonable question, after tossing me the finger. Pretty much kills any chance of rational discussion once you've attacked and dismissed, out of hand, my point of view.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:50 AM

I think our interpretation of the finger differs somewhat. I didn't intend it to mean 'the bird'.

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:53 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I think our interpretation of the finger differs somewhat. I didn't intend it to mean 'the bird'.

Misunderstood. O.K.

So, point by point though, you asked about zealotry,and I offered up a couple of examples. Did that help you understand what I was saying on the matter ?

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 6:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You've been very reasonable in dealing with this thread, Raptor; congratulations. You've been totally unreasonable in dealing with his responses, Mike; shame on you! You're twisting his words and behaving like he sometimes does, not responding to the pertinent points but only hurling silliness. I know you love to do so, but if you do, you can't complain about him.

There; that's my "schoolmarm" lecture for the day.

That said, of couse I disagree with Raptor on many points. Most importantly, I would need cites where it is "proven" that climate change is no happening before I could begin to accept your claim. Saying it's not so, "period", is illogical, given the debate rages on both sides and there are facts which both sides are using to back up their argument.

You can't know without a doubt that climate change is a farce, THAT's a fact. You're not a scientist, nor have you any viable facts at your disposal, you're merely stating what you believe and presenting it as fact. As such: Conclusion

There are many steps in many countries being taken to counter the effects of our activities, and more coming along. But you cannot hope to have people change things on their own; it takes too long to be convinced, then to act. But it is happening. The question is: Will it happen in time?

Because most of those "mistaken" prophecies you listed ARE happening right now, and some will inevitably follow if we continue on our course. THAT is a fact; if you want cites, I'll look for them, but from what you write I think even you recognize this.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Can you show me one time in our history when the data on ANYTHING *wasn't* politicized?

Nothing remotely rises to the level of global control over people's lives when it comes to the man made global warming scam. Nothing.

Quote:

Are you admitting that the Bush administration went overboard after 9/11? That invading Iraq was a mistake, because Saddam's WMD didn't exist? That there was a happier middle ground between invading and not?
Saddam was in violation of the U.N., as well as broke terms of the previous Gulf War cease fire. We've been over this a thousand times. Just move on.

Quote:
Point being, data ALWAYS gets politicized. It's in humans' nature, it would seem. Such politicization doesn't render the data meaningless, or nonexistent.
See response to 1st paragraph.

And per man made global warming, I'm right. The evidence says so.

And that's the sum total of your argument. You can't offer up any substantive, reasonable reply, other than dole out insults and dismissive, personal comments.

What a handy rejoinder! It sums you up perfectly, for every occasion! You have no evidence, you have no reasonable reply, no substantive response, and all you do is dole out insults and dismissive, personal comments. Yup, your own words sum you up quite handily!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:27 AM

America loves a winner!

kwickie -

Did someone forget to feed you your crackers ? You're parroting more than usual.

Are ya hungry boy? Ya want some crackers ? Nummy nummy crackers ?

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
kwickie -

Did someone forget to feed you your crackers ? You're parroting more than usual.

And that's the sum total of your argument. You can't offer up any substantive, reasonable reply, other than dole out insults and dismissive, personal comments.

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:58 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
kwickie -

Did someone forget to feed you your crackers ? You're parroting more than usual.

And that's the sum total of your argument. You can't offer up any substantive, reasonable reply, other than dole out insults and dismissive, personal comments.

Thanks for making my point for me.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:05 AM

I know you are, but what am I?

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:53 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I know you are, but what am I?

Skittish, Tombs. Very skittish.

Don't care if it doesn't make any sense. I just love that line.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 1:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I know you are, but what am I?

Skittish, Tombs. Very skittish.

Don't care if it doesn't make any sense. I just love that line.

And that's the sum total of your argument.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

In fairness, they kinda DO exist. EarthFirst is an example, burning down new housing subdivisions, "spiking" trees, vandalizing construction equipment. I agree with their motives, not their methods.

We've got some more radical elements in the conservation movement, but they pretty much restrict themselves to protest actions... which can include blockading. I might add, it was quite a successful tactic when preventing the damming of an area of virgin forest in Tasmania, so I'm not against that sort of thing, per se. The stakes are high, and the industries that they go up against often have a lot of power on their side, so saying 'don't do it' politely doesn't generally make a difference.

I can't say that eco terrorism exists in any way that poses a real threat to the general population, like Al Quaeda or other terrorist organisations - let's just say its not the environmentalists that I worry about when I board an aeroplane.

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[
Saddam was in violation of the U.N., as well as broke terms of the previous Gulf War cease fire. We've been over this a thousand times. Just move on.

And the US was in violation of the UN when it invaded Iraq.

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Anything from the likes of Cap & Trade to the spiking of trees in old growth forests is what I consider zealotry.

It seems pretty clear that we have a big difference in how we see zealotry then. BTW I don't approve of tree spiking if it may result in anyone being injured.

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:16 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

And the US was in violation of the UN when it invaded Iraq.

Oh puhleeeeze MD, don't pull facts out of actual documentation, and CERTAINLY don't expect the biggest kid on the block to play "fair."
Me & AU absolutely LOVE the fact that the U.S. is "flexible" enough to torture creeps without torturing them, breaking UN resolutions without breaking them, and getting the mission accomplished by any means necessary while still holding true to the concepts of Truth , Justice & The American Way.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[
Saddam was in violation of the U.N., as well as broke terms of the previous Gulf War cease fire. We've been over this a thousand times. Just move on.

And the US was in violation of the UN when it invaded Iraq.

Yeah, but in RappyWorld™, that doesn't count, because he really doesn't LIKE the UN, so he doesn't have to listen to them. Everybody else, though, DOES have to listen to them. Unless we say they don't.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:52 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
RappyWorld™

Sorry, Mickey Cheney was not available for the photo-op that day.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, April 24, 2010 3:07 PM