Why are we moving backwards on civil rights??? Bad enough that Dumbya did it, but now Arizona is going nuts on its own![quote]A sweeping immigration bil..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Arizona Legislature sends immigration bill to gov

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, December 11, 2021 23:28
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Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

ANY "lawful contact", an attempt "SHALL BE MADE", etc. This is legalese for saying that police MUST hassle anyone they suspect of being illegal. Not "MAY be made", but "SHALL be made". There's a difference, not that I expect you'll be able to figure it out.

As usual, you're lying, making shit up where you really have no idea what you're talking about. You really should stop; you're embarrassing yourself. Not that this is a new condition for you...




Doesn't say or mean anything of the sort. You're the one lying here, making shit up about what the law says when it plainly states nothing remotely what you claim it does.

" That's legalese for saying cops can come into your house, make a sandwich and take as many cheeze its as they like "

You're such a dumb ass. Because YOU blatantly misinterpret what something says doesn't make your case. Not by a long shot.



I think it's time you take your own advice, man up, admit you're wrong, you screwed up, you apologize deeply, and move on.

You really are embarrassing yourself.

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Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I think it's time you take your own advice, man up, admit you're wrong, you screwed up, you apologize deeply, and move on.

You really are embarrassing yourself.



Responding to anything you post is a colossal waste of time. I am embarrassing myself, sinking to your childish level.

Must do better.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Sunday, April 25, 2010 3:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I think it's time you take your own advice, man up, admit you're wrong, you screwed up, you apologize deeply, and move on.

You really are embarrassing yourself.



Responding to anything you post is a colossal waste of time. I am embarrassing myself, sinking to your childish level.

Must do better.




And yet, here you are, still hanging on my every word. Sucks to be you, doesn't it?

Go ahead, run away, child. Run and hide under your bed from the "national crisis"!

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Monday, April 26, 2010 4:18 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


So, Niki. As I remember, when you first came here you said you'd been chased off other sites because of your views. Insulted, ganged up on, etc.

You happier here where you're one of the bullies instead of the bullied?

BTW, here's the text of the Arizona law.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, April 26, 2010 5:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Is somebody being "bullied"?

I've seen Rappy ridiculed and mocked for posting demonstrably false, intentionally idiotic things here and claiming them as "fact", but I haven't really seen the bullying you seem to be claiming is happening.

Although I have definitely seen instances where several right-wingers ganged up on one or two people here (whether said righties are actually different people, or just an army of sockpuppets, remains to be seen) in an effort to beat them down. Oddly enough, you were conspicuous in your absence in those threads, not voicing any of your - ahem - "non-partisan" concern over bullying in such instances.

You're not biased by any chance, are you? Maybe just a li'l bit?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Monday, April 26, 2010 6:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:You may be right, Frem. But I think it's definitely something to rise up against, given it's unequivocally racial profiling and "papers, please" and would affect not only the police department's ability to go after REAL criminals, but surely require the expense of hiring additional cops, and the ways it could be abused by racist policemen is beyond MY imagination!

Just to have proposed it shows how insane Arizona is--added to their legislation that any candidate for Prez. has to show a birth certificate! We'll have to shove them down the map with Texas if they decide to secede, eh?

Of course, "Non-Maverick" McCain is right in there pushing it, yazzah... But then, who takes HIM seriously these days, either?





70% of Arizona Voters Favor New State Measure
Cracking Down On Illegal Immigration


The Arizona legislature has now passed the toughest measure against illegal immigration in the country, authorizing local police

to stop and check the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally.


A new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 70% of
likely voters in Arizona approve of the legislation, while just 23% oppose it.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/ele
ction_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/arizona/70_of_arizona_voters_favor_new_state_measure_cracking_down_on_illegal_immigration



By all means, rise up. Show your 23 %. Stand and be counted.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Monday, April 26, 2010 6:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, Geezer, you no not of what you speak! At that other board, I wasn't just bullied; there's a clique of people over there, hard right wing, one unbelievably religious. I got along as well with most everyone else there (except they got on my case for worsening the situation by replying in kind to the clique). Literally everything personal I ever told about myself was used against me, in some pretty cruel ways.

They never gave up; they went after me with both bores and never let go. I have deleted what I had saved, after I left, but I found one doc I had kept, to remind me never to go back. Want a small sample?
Quote:

You want to know what real waste is? People who are so freakin' insane they are a waste of skin, air...space. Go back to the Mother Ship. I don't know how you got out of your straight jacket but I sure as heck wish the guys in the white coats would hurry up and take you back to the padded cell you obviously escaped from. You are a sexually confused, drug addled, liberal who thinks wearing your old 'love beads' makes you a flower child who spreads peace, love and harmony...yet you love stirring up as much trouble as you can with your insane blather that makes no sense to anyone but yourself. You wanna throw down the guantlet with me? Alright freakshow, it's ON!
That's only a taste, it got a lot worse. That person dogged my every post from then on and got even nastier. Eventually they convinced even the people I had believed were friends, and despite efforts to talk to some of them in e-mail, I was cut off. With no support whatsoever, the clique got serious about going after me.

One of them went so far as to look up my information, go to the website I run, which is a support site so we talk about our lives and what bothers us, and quote one of my complaints about what was happening. I had to close the site to the public.

They then had a fake person come in who said they'd known me for years and I was always a horrible person. I knew it wasn't true, so I traced them back to the website they "said" they came from, and found the name they had used (one of the people who runs the site), contacted that person and they'd never heard of this person, didn't know me and were concerned that their name was being used.

I even screen-shot copied the fake person's registration, showing they'd registered just two days before, and the e-mail from the ACTUAL person on the site. They claimed it was all fraudulent and the attacks got worse. I even had Choey, who fell in love with Firefly and is on the site I run, go there and try to tell them she'd known me ten years and what they were saying was wrong. They called her a sockpuppet.

Others had told me that their version of RWE is dangerous, the clique "owns" it, and anyone who disagrees needs to either shut up or not go there. It got to the point where I gave up, deleted my account and looked for another website. Someone had suggested I try here, and I did.

I told some of what had happened to me when I first arrived--I think Mike will remember, maybe others. They followed me here. They said vicious things about me, supposedly "warning" the members about the insane woman. Have I ever seemed insane to you?

Gawd bless everyone here at the time; they told the intruders that they'd rather make up their own minds about me from my own words and to please leave them alone. I've been grateful ever since, and held the members of this board in high esteem for the way they reacted, which has proven ever since to be a reflection of those here.

Eventually they left here; at the time I promised not to talk about them or what had happened there, and I haven't told any of the specifics to this day. Even now, I'm withholding a lot. There are at least a couple of people here who are also there, and they've been kind enough to leave me alone or be civil and not carry over the situation; they were as it turns out the nicest people there, whom I admired, and one of them had tried repeatedly to lessen the hate, only to be told they were trying to "control" the board. To them I apologize for breaking my word, but I need to defend myself and I'll go back to not mentioning it again.

I pray this doesn't bring any here who are over there out of the woodwork to go after me; thus far none has appeared, and I won't reply to them if they do. IF someone does show up, please know it is one side of the story, because I won't let myself be dragged into defending myself again.

I'm the same person here as I was there; the difference is that I can disagree with and debate other members without being persecuted. As I said, it's a reflection of this place that I'm allowed to be myself. Yes, I snark, but I try not to the majority of the time. Yes, here I am among a group represented by liberals, anarchists, other religions, conservatives, and I try to respect them all unless given a reason to do otherwise.

Here I can hold my own, there is no concerted effort to drive me off. I try to discuss and debate fairly, with facts and cites, and sometimes get triggered into responding in ways not in accordance with my beliefs. It's partly because others do it, which is NOT an excuse, merely a statement that I'm weak and no more perfect than anyone else here. I speak my mind. Believe it or not, I refrain from joining in a lot of the time when I see things devolve into nothing but ugliness...and yes, I remark on that, which I probably shouldn't, I should just find another thread.

I do not believe there is any "ganging up" on my part. When Raptor makes valid points, I respond to them. When others go after him in what I feel is an unfair manner, my sense of balance gets the best of me and I remark on it. I have agreed with everyone here at one time or another, and offered my respect when I recognize valid arguments. I despise PN's bigotry and ugliness toward seemingly everything and everyone; I add my feelings to others about Raptor and a few others, but I TRY not to go over the line.

As to bullying, I don't think anyone here bullies anyone else. There are a few who get ugly and attcking, and Raptor is one of them, and his attitude is to crazy that I find it hard to believe they truly reflect how he feels. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with him, the best way, I realize, being to ignore him. I haven't managed that; his statements are so over the top that I take the bait all too often. I'll try to do better.

I disagree with Mike in that I think people DO together snark at Raptor, even sometimes when he's made valid points and/or not gone after them first, and I've seen both right and left "gang up" on someone on the other side. But it's evenly distributed enough that I don't think any one group can be considered as bullying all the time. I'm told it was conservatives going after liberals when Dumbya was in office, but I wasn't here then. The only remaining true "right wingers" I see now are ones who rarely, if ever, make valid points and argue from a logical, civil point of view. Nonetheless, yes, there are a couple here who are pretty vociferous in their statements about Raptor. It's not my place to judge them (tho' I've chastized, which I also don't have the right to do, in fairness).

'Nuff said; I'd tell you to there and lurk and see for yourself, but I don't want to mention the name of the forum, as they have the right to do as they please and are no longer any of my business.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, April 26, 2010 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


However, upon thinking about it a bit: Thank you, Geezer, for pulling me up short. I will try to go back to reading and responding to posts for what they say, rather than carrying forward my previous opinions (too much). Just said I'll TRY, remember!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, April 26, 2010 5:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Pfffth, strikes me as a rather interesting amount of pissin and moanin from folks who are all too happy to act in such a fashion, but don't seem to have the belly for it when the boomerang comes back - kinda like Rush and his whole "druggies should be locked up" bit when it was found he was knockin back Oxy, neh ?

So if the conservative-authoritarian types didn't wanna catch a verbal beatdown, perhaps they shouldn't have been so quick to hand one out when their collective had a lock on the media and government ?

Just sayin...

Besides, as an Anarchist, if imma puttin my boot to someones ass, it's cause *I* mean to do it, and what other folk do is up to them - not to mention my reasons are often very different from the assumptions applied, which continue to get applied despite every effort to explain what they are, since those are often summarily dismissed by folk who cannot wrap their mind around the fact that some folk do things for reasons other than appeasing some social or political faction.

Not to mention some folk seem to have a serious lack of understanding about cause and effect around here, you do or say nasty things to folk, sooner or later that's gonna come back on ya, action and reaction, baby - on every scale from foreign policy all the way down to parent-child, it's the very nature of social interaction of any species bright enough to realize cause and effect.

So really, I see the current batch of whining in the same light as someone who spent several years kicking a dog being outraged that said mutt went and had the audacity to bite them, as it this were not the inevitable result ?

And therefore, you won't be finding much sympathy from THIS corner of the verse, thankee muchly.

-F

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:42 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Its pretty simple, folks.

Arizona had some of the highest murder rates, drug problems, gang problems, kidnappings ect. Like it or not, it could (almost exclusivly) be traced to the illegals.

So, whats the response?

1. Lock and load (Arizona, in accordance with the Constitution, no longer makes you register for CC)

2. If you are commiting a crime, you can have your citizenship status checked.


They did that (the citizenship check) in a few counties in VA, I believe. Granted, all the illegals just moved to another county, but it helped end the rise in crime that had been happening.

Im curious as to what will happen. I've read reports that crime/kidnapping has already dropped by 5%.


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 2:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Wulfboy, for all your talk of "independence", every time you open your mouth, you show yourself to be nothing but the same old right-wing authoritarian.

And of course, you've completely missed the bigger implications here. One more constitutional check on unbridled government power has just fallen away, but you're fine with that as long as it's only Mexicans they target. Which it may be, today. Tomorrow it will be you.

I can only imagine your outrage if this had been Obama's idea...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 2:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Here's a real quick f'rinstance, Wulfie, which I'm sure you haven't thought about:

Let's say this law is allowed to stand, isn't challenged in the courts at all, or is challenged and upheld. Police now have not only the RIGHT, but the DUTY to check the paperwork of everyone they even think MIGHT be "committing a crime", WITHOUT ANY NEED FOR PROBABLY CAUSE, without any need for a warrant.

Oh, did you forget already that you're now required to carry health insurance coverage?

Can I see your papers, please?

As I pointed out, you don't mind when it's "Mexicans" being targeted for systematic hassling and shakedowns. You wouldn't tolerate it if it were you being hassled, though. You'd grab your gun, or so you claim.

But when it's your turn, it'll be far too late...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 2:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Didn't say I was for (or against) this. Just curious.

Is anyone tracking this? The drop in crime vs the evacuation of illegals?

Can it even BE tracked?

What if it works? What if it doesn't?




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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 3:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Didn't say I was for (or against) this. Just curious.

Is anyone tracking this? The drop in crime vs the evacuation of illegals?

Can it even BE tracked?

What if it works? What if it doesn't?







What if I show you stats that prove that crime on the streets goes to zero if you imprison the entire population? Would you be for that? I mean, if it works, is that your standard for supporting it? Not whether it's constitutional, not whether it's right or wrong, but just whether it "works"?


Again, I'd like to know where the outrage and hand-wringing are from the Tea Party people over this. I thought y'all were for SMALLER government, LESS intrusion. I guess you're only for less intrusion into the lives of white people...

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:22 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Also, I think people in New Mexico, Cali, Colorado, Nevada and Utah should prepare themselves for an upswing in crime rates as this law is enforced.

Its just my opinion of course, but just as Houston and Texas (in general) dealt with a similar rise after Katrina, these states should prepare for the same.


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA



You paperz pleeezee!

Sounds like the fuckin KGB to me, and it's bullshit, racist bullshit, and not only that - don't be more of an idiot than you can help Wulfie, sure, they might START with a segment of the population that folks ain't so quick to defend, cause most folk don't *really* believe in human rights being universal, only about their own...

But you of all people should know damn well just how fast shit like this will wind up expanded to include everyone - why give Authoritarian fuckheads that first inch when you *know* they're gonna try to grab a mile out of it, especially when the prime mover is a fucking nutter like Arapio ?

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2010/04/borders-are-closing-in.ht
ml


Dude, why not go the other way, streamline the process, hand em a W-2 and an ID card at the line, Welcome to America! - and then let those fucking rabid IRS bastards do something other than nitpick honest americans while sucking corporate cock, neh ?

Literary recommendation for you, specifically Wulf, and you will actually like the book a hell of a lot cause it has a lot of themes which are near and dear to your heart...
1632 by Eric Flint.
I suggest you pick up a copy, but you can read it for free while you look, via the Baen Free Library.
http://www.webscription.net/10.1125/Baen/0671578499/0671578499.htm
Read the discussion in Chapter Seven between Simpson and Stearns over what I guess we'd call "immigration policy", and you will understand more of what America really stands for.

I figure, if they're gonna come here, live here, work here, or even loot and pillage (and like there are not plenty of americans who do this, and the worst of em wear suits and ties!) fuck it, we *make* them Americans - whether they like it, or not.

Welcome to America, Jose, now you're as fucked as the rest of us!


-Frem

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:55 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

You paperz pleeezee!

Sounds like the fuckin KGB to me, and it's bullshit, racist bullshit, and not only that - don't be more of an idiot than you can help Wulfie, sure, they might START with a segment of the population that folks ain't so quick to defend, cause most folk don't *really* believe in human rights being universal, only about their own...

But you of all people should know damn well just how fast shit like this will wind up expanded to include everyone - why give Authoritarian fuckheads that first inch when you *know* they're gonna try to grab a mile out of it, especially when the prime mover is a fucking nutter like Arapio ?




Bingo. 'Course, as I've pointed out, Wulfie doesn't seem to mind cops or feds hassling people - he just doesn't want them hassling HIM. As long as it's only the Mexicans, or only the blacks, or only the Jews, or only the "undesirables", he doesn't have a problem with that AT ALL.

Round 'em all up and deport 'em all, that's Wulfie's motto. And it doesn't just extend to "Mexicans", but to liberals, "hippies", blacks, and anyone else he disapproves of.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:03 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Kwick, thats just silly.

I have not said that here. Just posing questions. I've already stated Im neither for or against this. Just curious.

Really its up to the citizens (legal ones) in Arizona on what they want to do.


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Your solutions, Wulf, are irrelevant:

1) If Arizona already allows CC, then “lock and load” already EXISTS. If you’re saying it should be OPEN carry, you’re just asking for the criminals to up the violence.

2) If you’re caught committing a crime in Arizona, the law ALREADY mandates that your immigration status be checked. Been that way for years. This is different; this is checking status of people just walking down the street or driving by.

As to
Quote:

I've read reports that crime/kidnapping has already dropped by 5%
How can that have anything to do with anything? The law was passed TWO DAYS AGO...they certainly can’t know crime has dropped in that time!

This law won't have much effect on the actual criminals involved, I'll bet. The law already WAS that anyone pulled over for something or caught in a criminal act would be checked for ICE status. This takes it further, makes it up to the police who they check. So you don't think most actual criminals will find ways NOT to be checked (unless pulled over or caught in the act)?

We won't suffer for it in other states any more than we do now. That I can guarantee. What I'm pretty sure of is that at least some non-Latino criminals are going to head FOR Arizona, because the police aren't going to be able to keep up their "quota" of checking people and fight crime with equal effectiveness at the same time. That's a real shame.

Naah, Mike, I don’t think it’ll spread to other populations. White Americans would raise an incredible ruckus if THEIR papers were required, they’d scream to the rafters and politicians would LISTEN to them. It’s safe to do with Hispanics because of existing racism and anti-immigrant feelings, so they can get away with it.

Nonetheless, lawsuits are already in the works, so Arizona’s gonna have its courts busy and court costs, along with costs for increased police staffing (despite almost all towns being in the red already) go up. It’s the ‘Murkian way!

Silly man, Mike; why would you think the Tea Party would mind this? It has nothing to do with THEM, after all, and no doubt appeals to the racists and anti-immigrants among them.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Nonetheless, lawsuits are already in the works, so Arizona’s gonna have its courts busy and court costs, along with costs for increased police staffing (despite almost all towns being in the red already) go up. It’s the ‘Murkian way!"

Well, thats why Arizona ALSO passed the law which allows a citizen to carry without a permit.

People can AND WILL, polic themselves.

Like I said, this is going to be interesting.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick, thats just silly.

I have not said that here. Just posing questions. I've already stated Im neither for or against this. Just curious.

Really its up to the citizens (legal ones) in Arizona on what they want to do.





So you'd just toss the U.S. Constitution aside? Leave it completely up to the states? No federal laws at all?

There goes that pesky 2nd Amendment, eh?

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, that's real encouraging! How long do you suppose until vigilanties with guns start stopping people to check their "papers"? Shall we wait for the first person who dies as a result?

Interesting? No. Sad, and scary for Arizona residents, citizen or not? Yes.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Then why have it at all, Wulf ?

Just a waste of time, money and resources - why not depend on, and trust, the american people with their own lifes instead of interfering ?

Just a thought for you.

-F

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


1) If Arizona already allows CC, then “lock and load” already EXISTS. If you’re saying it should be OPEN carry, you’re just asking for the criminals to up the violence.

2) If you’re caught committing a crime in Arizona, the law ALREADY mandates that your immigration status be checked. Been that way for years. This is different; this is checking status of people just walking down the street or driving by.



I'll note for the record that if I'm a cop in Arizona right now, anyone openly carrying a weapon has just provided me "reasonable suspicion" that they're up to something illegal, so I'm completely within the law to stop them and hassle them. Thanks for giving me that power, citizens! :)

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:59 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Actually, the real question is when does the Arizona militia start moving...

To secure its borders, and to end federalist government intrusion.

Like I said, this is going to be interesting.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Naah, Mike, I don’t think it’ll spread to other populations. White Americans would raise an incredible ruckus if THEIR papers were required, they’d scream to the rafters and politicians would LISTEN to them. It’s safe to do with Hispanics because of existing racism and anti-immigrant feelings, so they can get away with it.



No offense, Niki, but you're being naive. If this is upheld or allowed to stand unchallenged, it becomes a legal precedent. This nation is governed by legal precedent for the vast majority of its laws and regulations. Allowing this opens the door for others to follow. And then one day, you actually DO get some little burg somewhere - maybe a majority black or majority Hispanic town - where they decide that checking the legal status of white folk in the town is a perfectly legal and normal thing to do. Baltimore? Detroit? Los Angeles? If it has legal standing for one group, you can bet your ass it will be applied to another group.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


We'll have to agree to disagree on that one, Mike; I don't see it happening.

On the other hand, anyone interested in who's behind this law, who wrote it and who backed it? I'm sure none of our RWAs are, but for anyone interested in the FACTS of who's behind it:

Quote:




"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:21 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Niki,

To prove your "point" and to bring "facts" to play... you post something said by Rachel Maddow?

Really?

Come on, really?


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Niki,

To prove your "point" and to bring "facts" to play... you post something said by Rachel Maddow?

Really?

Come on, really?


'


Wulfie - do you have anything that refutes the report by Maddow? Anything with, y'know, FACTS behind it?

Really?

Come on, really?

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, I knew that was coming, and that you’d dismiss it because it was Maddow. So I've taken the time to get the facts from OTHER sources...not that it will make any difference. The material is easy to find on the internet; what I'm posting represents a small sampling--you could find more if you were willing to look, or to learn:
Quote:

The state senator who wrote the law, Russell Pearce, had long been considered a politically incorrect embarrassment by more moderate members of his party — often to the delight of his supporters. There was the time in 2007 when he appeared in a widely circulated photograph with a man who was a featured speaker at a neo-Nazi conference. (Mr. Pearce said later he did not know of the man’s affiliation with the group.)

In 2006, he came under fire for speaking admirably of a 1950s federal deportation program called Operation Wetback, and for sending an e-mail message to supporters that included an attachment — inadvertently, he said — from a white supremacist group.

But Mr. Pearce, 62, cannot be dismissed as just the party’s right-wing fringe. As chairman of the Senate’s appropriation committee, he controls whose bills are financed, and he has shown an uncanny knack to capitalize on this border state’s immigration anxiety.

While surveys show immigration is less of a hot-button issue than it was a few years ago, Republican conservatives still care about the issue. In a New York Times/CBS News poll released last week, 82 percent of self-identified Tea Party supporters said illegal immigration was a “very serious” problem.

More than a few Democrats took notice that Mr. Pearce, whose district is in Mesa, a Phoenix suburb, managed to win unanimous support for the bill from House Republicans, even from some moderates who had voiced misgivings about it.

One of those moderates, State Representative Bill Konopnicki, Republican of Yuma, said planned amendments to address legal and other concerns never materialized. In the end, he said, “everybody was afraid to vote no on immigration.”

“We are going to look like Alabama in the ’60s,” said Mr. Konopnicki, who is facing a tough election and did not believe voting no would change the outcome..

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/us/20immig.html

Quote:

A week after Rep. Russell Pearce drew fire for immigration remarks many called racially insensitive, the Mesa Republican sent an e-mail to supporters in which he copied an article from a white separatist group and a link to that group's Web site.

The article from the National Alliance's Web site was pasted on the bottom of an e-mail Pearce sent to supporters slamming The Arizona Republic for its articles about his comments on the radio last month about a 1950s federal deportation program called "Operation Wetback."

Titled "Who Rules America? The Alien Grip on Our News and Entertainment Media Must Be Broken," the article criticized the media for promoting multiculturalism and racial equality, for portraying "any racially conscious White Person" as a bigot and for presenting the Jewish Holocaust as fact.

The media presents a "single view of the world - a world in which every voice proclaims the equality of the races, the inerrant nature of the Jewish 'Holocaust' tale, the wickedness of attempting to halt the flood of non-White aliens pouring across our borders, the danger of permitting citizens to keep and bear arms, the moral equivalence of all sexual orientations, and the desirability of a 'pluralistic,' cosmopolitan society rather than a homogeneous, White one," the article says.

Pearce said he sent the e-mail and the article to a few dozen supporters in his Mesa legislative district. The subject line of the e-mail implored supporters to put out yard signs and get people they know out to vote.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/1010pearce-ON.html?&w
ired
Quote:

Russell Pearce is in full-on denial mode in the face of the latest Nathan Sproul flier linking him to Mesa neo-Nazi J.T. Ready. In Saturday's Republic, Pearce was paraphrased as saying the photo of he and Ready arm-in-arm "was one of dozens he posed for" during a June 2007 anti-immigration bash on the lawn of the state Capitol. (This ignores several other photos of them working the crowd together at the same event.)
(video proof and more at http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2008/08/russell_pearce_applau
ds_alread.php
)
Quote:

The man behind many of the deeply flawed anti-illegal immigrant laws passed recently is Kris Kobach, the "national expert on constitutional law" who works for the Immigration Reform Law Institute (IRLI). IRLI is the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), recently listed as a nativist hate group.

The laws have not done well. The Hazelton ordinance, crafted by Kobach and fellow IRLI attorney Michael Hethmon, was struck down last year by a federal judge who also charged the city for all legal fees. "Everything he does has been a failure," Mira Mdivani, a Kansas immigration lawyer, told The Pitch in January 2007.

In 2004, Kobach ran for Congress. (At the same time, he worked on a FAIR lawsuit against a Kansas law granting in-state tuition rates to the children of undocumented immigrants. The suit was dismissed.) Kobach lost by 11 percentage points after his opponent accused him of ties to white supremacists.

Kobach also has taught constitutional and immigration law since 2003 at the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law, but has come under attack there for anti-immigrant bias. In January 2007, for instance, fliers appeared on campus accusing Kobach of inflating his credentials and crafting bad law. In the classroom, he uses as a text a controversial book by political science professor Samuel Huntington that argues that today's immigrants will "divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, two languages."

Kobach, who in 2007 became chairman of the Kansas Republican Party, is far-right Christian fundamentalist. During his 2004 campaign, he accused his opponent of associating with groups supporting "homosexual pedophilia." He was referring to the Human Rights Campaign, a mainstream gay rights organization that has never come remotely close to endorsing pedophilia.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-i
ssues/2008/spring/the-nativists?page=0,11
Quote:

The country's leading anti-immigration organization — whose leaders have testified repeatedly before Congress and are frequently quoted in the media — has ties to known racists and a long track record of bigotry, according to a new report released today by the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).

The group, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR):

- is the creation of a man who operates a racist publishing company and has compared immigrants to "bacteria;"

- has employed members of white supremacist groups in key positions;

- has promoted racist conspiracy theories; and

- has accepted more than $1 million from the Pioneer Fund, a racist foundation devoted to eugenics and to proving a connection between race and IQ.

FAIR and its ties to white supremacy are examined in the latest issue of the SPLC's quarterly Intelligence Report.

The SPLC today added FAIR to its list of hate groups operating in the United States.

"FAIR's position on immigration is rooted more in its anti-Latino and anti-Catholic beliefs than in policy concerns," said Mark Potok, the director of the SPLC's project that monitors hate group activity. "Remarkably, it has still managed to infiltrate the mainstream and shape the immigration debate in this country."

FAIR helped defeat federal immigration reform earlier this year and has played a key role in fueling the fierce, anti-immigrant backlash in the United States. It was founded in 1979 by John Tanton , a man who has compared immigrants to bacteria and warned that high birthrates will allow Latinos to take over America. Still a member of FAIR's board, Tanton also operates The Social Contract Press, listed as a hate group for many years by the SPLC because of its anti-Latino and white supremacist writings.

"The sad fact is that attempts to reform our immigration system are being sabotaged by organizations fueled by hate," Henry Fernandez, a senior fellow and expert on immigration at the Center for American Progress, told the Intelligence Report.

http://www.chasingevil.org/2008/04/john-tanton-and-more-money-trails.h
tml
Quote:

The Pioneer Fund is an American non-profit foundation established in 1937 "to advance the scientific study of heredity and human differences." Currently headed by psychology professor J. Philippe Rushton, the fund focuses on projects it perceives will not be easily funded due to controversial subject matter. The Pioneer Fund has been the main source of funding for the partly-genetic hypothesis of IQ variation among races. The fund's grantees and publications have generated controversy since the 1994 publication of The Bell Curve, which drew heavily from Pioneer-funded research. The fund has also been criticized for its perceived stance on eugenics.

There are reported links between various past contributors to the science journal Mankind Quarterly, which receives funding from Pioneer, and Nazism. Italian biologist and Mankind Quarterly associate editor Corrado Gini authored an article titled "The Scientific Basis of Fascism" and was once a scientific advisor to Italian leader Benito Mussolini. The editorial board member Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer was Josef Mengele's mentor before and during the Holocaust and is suspected of being his collaborator.

The Center for New Community, a human rights advocacy organization, mentioned the Pioneer Fund in an article on their website. They characterize the Pioneer Fund as "a white supremacist foundation that specializes in funding 'science' dedicated to demonstrating white intellectual and moral superiority."

The Pioneer Fund was described by the London Sunday Telegraph (March 12, 1989) as a "neo-Nazi organization closely integrated with the far right in American politics." It has also been criticized by some scientists and journalists, and in various peer-reviewed academic articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Fund

That’s as much time as I’m willing to spend on it. You can hide behind your dislike of Maddow in order to dismiss what she reports, but the problem with that is her researchers KNOW THEIR FACTS and she presents them. By dismissing those facts out of hand, you show your mindset and unwillingness to know the truth, nothing more. Unlike FauxNews, the things Maddow has had researched are the truth and can be proven. Not that you'll recognize, much less admit, that fact.

You need to remember when dismissing a source that they may well be citing facts which can be found through research; and by now you know I'll do everything I can and take the time to verify facts before presenting them. Just for future reference.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:01 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Not really, Niki.

Just saying.

Rap could post stuff from Fox, and you would say the same thing.

Just pointing out the.... hypocrisy?

Blatant bias?

Hell, I dont know.

At this point I refuse to believe anything unless I see it for my own self.

So, whatever.


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wulf, "bias" is one thing, "lying" is another. FauxNews lies, so I can never trust anything I get from them. BUT, if I heard something that caught my attention, just as with MSNBC and others I would research it and find out the facts. Unquestionably some of what FoxNoise brings up from time to time is worth looking into, and if it's important to me, I do. Usually I get those things from other sources, tho', since I can't bear to watch the bullshit on ClusterFox, given they have no problem with lying and fraud.

But if they did come up with something that didn't make the news or internet, absolutely, yes, I would search it out myself and have an opinion about it if I found it to be accurate. I don't believe it's hypocrisy or blatant bias; I've read a LOT of the cites put up here--I dismiss things from the more obviously biased cites, which are usually pretty easy to tell by the articles on the cite and/or the name, but that's not all of them. Things posted from what aren't obviously cites with an agenda, I read and take at face value unless I want to pursue it further.

The difference is that Rachel Maddow has a "thing" about facts. Numerous times people she's done stories about have come at her that she should have checked her facts better and try to portray her as inaccurate; she actually gets a kick out of that, you can tell. She then sends her researchers deeper until they get to the bottom, then presents what they found. She's always right; if you work at it, you can almost always find the facts on things people haven't tried TOO hard to hide. She has also apologized for any mistakes, like using the wrong puppet face in a finger-puppet illustration of something that happened in Congress. She never misses an opportunity to correct or apologize for anything she might have gotten wrong.

Yes, she comes from a liberal bias, and I happen to share her point of view. But the one thing I always know about Maddow is that she will present researched FACTS, she will never deliberately lie to her audience.

Her "mission", if you will, is to make the things happening in politics easier to understand (with the emphasis of course on liberal issues), to weed out the truth and try to present it in such a way as to make it understandable to her audience, and to go behind the scenes to see who's ACTUALLY funding/pushing/backing stuff we see and hear. I take nobody completely at their word, and do my own research to verify things, but I trust Maddow more than ANY other single newscaster out there, and on unimportant things, I tend to take her word for it.

The only ground I will give is that her choice of issues leaves out things which could equally be exposed about the left. There's nobody out there who does that; the instant someone shows up who does, I'd watch them just as much as I watch Maddow. I pay little attention to Olbermann Matthews and definitely Schulz (!), but Maddow I pay attention to.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:30 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Not really, Niki.

Just saying.

Rap could post stuff from Fox, and you would say the same thing.

Just pointing out the.... hypocrisy?

Blatant bias?

Hell, I dont know.

At this point I refuse to believe anything unless I see it for my own self.

So, whatever.




So, following the Fox comparison for a bit...

Can you post any factual evidence that Rachel Maddow has fabricated facts in her coverage of stories? 'Cause Fox has done that, and been exposed for it, time and time again.

And remember, Dan Rather got shitcanned for doing something similar (allegedly).

As for seeing for yourself, have YOU actually seen with your own eyes the alleged decrease in crime in Arizona? If I have never seen a murder with my own eyes, does that mean Austin hasn't had any murders in the last 20 years?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, March 30, 2021 12:44 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Arizona's GOP governor says VP Harris, a daughter of immigrants, is the 'worst possible choice' to oversee the border situation

...


Mayor of Arizona border town says he is declaring ‘state of emergency’ over illegal immigration

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/arizona-
state-of-emergency-mayor-immigration-b1821843.html


Arizona rancher on Biden's immigration policies: 'We got spoiled with Donald Trump'

https://news.yahoo.com/arizona-rancher-bidens-immigration-policies-124
530444.html


Congress Debates Next Move On Immigration Reform
https://azdailysun.com/news/national/congress-debates-next-move-on-imm
igration-reform/video_57f4ce09-ec84-5e52-83e9-bbcb9a9cc98e.html

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Tuesday, March 30, 2021 12:46 PM

REAVERFAN


Fascists gonna fash. ^



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Tuesday, March 30, 2021 12:55 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:

Fascists gonna fash. ^




Lets see reaver, who else aside from jayneztown is anti immigration? Oh yeah, signym. You can't miss the connection.

T



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Saturday, December 11, 2021 6:02 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Saturday, December 11, 2021 11:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Ted doesn't say a word to me now that his Antifa idiot bully isn't here anymore.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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