You gotta admit, they're damned good at what they do![quote]Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah has lashed out at the Republican National Committee ov..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz Calls RNC 'Census' Mailers an Outrage

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, April 30, 2010 14:50
SHORT URL:
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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 10:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


You gotta admit, they're damned good at what they do!
Quote:

Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah has lashed out at the Republican National Committee over its continuing practice of sending out a fundraising mailer that claims to be a "census document."

"They're trying to be deceptive, and it outrages me," Chaffetz said in an interview with The Plum Line's Greg Sargent.

The RNC is continuing to send out a fundraising appeal with the words "census" and "DO NOT DESTROY/OFFICIAL DOCUMENT," despite a law passed weeks ago banning these types of mailers.

The RNC, which has faced a string of scandals under the leadership of chair Michael Steele (pictured), argues the law does not apply to its mailers, which note (in relatively smaller print) that it is not a U.S. government document.

Chaffetz, who co-sponsored the law banning such mailers, said it is indeed a violation.

"I'm happy to walk over there and give them a lesson," he told Sargent. "Just don't use the word 'census' and you don't have a problem."

"They're going to have to abide by the law," added Chaffetz. "The reason they're using the word census is they're trying to deceive people. I think that's wrong. Even though it's my own party I've got to call this out for what it is."

Along with Darrell Issa of California, another Republican and the co-sponsor of the law, Chaffetz is reportedly drafting a letter calling for a halt to the mailers.

(More at http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003553-503544.html?tag=cbsnew
sSectionContent.8
)







I LOVE the wording!








"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ?








Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:48 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


I gotta say, anyone who'd believe that this document is the official U.S. Census and not a fundraising appeal must be...well...not so bright. I get similar stuff from the DNC all the time, except they're called an official survey instead of a census. They're recycled along with the RNC ones.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:11 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Actually come to find out, the sheer AMOUNT of bullshit mailers, scams and the like which pretend to be official documents is *WHY* anything from the Census finds it's way into the trash bins around here as much or even more than privacy concerns.

Folks take one look and "Oh, more cheaply disguised shit-mail" *shred shred dump*.

Which is prolly why they put up a law against it, not that anyone will bother to enforce it here, since that'd fall on Cox, who's useless for ANYTHING but sabotaging our state any way he can for political points - that's a guy who'd best run like hell the minute he's out of office, as angry as people are about a state attorney general who refuses to do their job at all, AND nonstop destroys everything he can reach just to be a dick about who's currently in charge in Lansing.

-F

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ?






Actually, because it's a violation of federal law, that's an outrage.

Try to keep up.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 12:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ?






Actually, because it's a violation of federal law, that's an outrage.
Try to keep up.



It says nothing about U.S. Government, it clearly says REPUBLICAN .... this is just silly b.s.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:17 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Okay, here's the new legislation. Search H.R.4621 at
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c111query.html


and here's U.S. Code 39 USC 3001 i,
http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t37t40+1
520+1++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%2839%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%283001%29%29%3ACITE%20%20AND%20%28CHAPTER%20ADJ%20%2830%29%29%3AEXPCITE%20%20AND%20%28PART%20ADJ%20%28IV%29%29%3AEXPCITE%20%20%20%20%20


...which hasn't been updated with the new language.

Put them together and, per paragraph (2)(B) it's illegal to mail something with "Census" on the envelope unless exceptions are met, such as... "(B) the envelope or outside cover or wrapper in which such matter is mailed bears on its face in capital letters and in conspicuous and legible type, in accordance with regulations which the Postal Service shall prescribe, the following notice:
"THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT.", or a notice to the same effect in words which the Postal Service may prescribe...".

Here's the envelope.



now we have to find out what "...a notice to the same effect in words which the Postal Service may prescribe..." is to find out if the notice meets the letter of the law. Would "THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT" not in all caps apply?




"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1:31 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because it says " census ", that's an OUTRAGE ?








Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."



Rappy dismissing an outright falsehood from the GOP? Wish I could say I was shocked.


Equivicate all you like, they've done this before, and a lw was passed making it illegal for them to do again - and yet here it is. They broke the law, the end.



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 2:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Okay, here's the new legislation. Search H.R.4621 at
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c111query.html


and here's U.S. Code 39 USC 3001 i,
http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t37t40+1
520+1++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%2839%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%283001%29%29%3ACITE%20%20AND%20%28CHAPTER%20ADJ%20%2830%29%29%3AEXPCITE%20%20AND%20%28PART%20ADJ%20%28IV%29%29%3AEXPCITE%20%20%20%20%20


...which hasn't been updated with the new language.

Put them together and, per paragraph (2)(B) it's illegal to mail something with "Census" on the envelope unless exceptions are met, such as... "(B) the envelope or outside cover or wrapper in which such matter is mailed bears on its face in capital letters and in conspicuous and legible type, in accordance with regulations which the Postal Service shall prescribe, the following notice:
"THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT.", or a notice to the same effect in words which the Postal Service may prescribe...".

Here's the envelope.



now we have to find out what "...a notice to the same effect in words which the Postal Service may prescribe..." is to find out if the notice meets the letter of the law. Would "THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT" not in all caps apply?




"Keep the Shiny side up"




Keep going; what else have you left out? Holler if you need help with the rest of it.

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:08 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Keep going; what else have you left out? Holler if you need help with the rest of it.


Mike, if you got anything substantive showing that the RNC's letter was illegal, I'd be glad to see it. I consider solicitations from either political party a waste of my time. But illegal? Based on the letter of the law, it'd be a hard call. Up to a court to decide. In this case, I'm not sure there's sufficient evidence.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


From http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR4621:/

Here's the CRS summary:

Quote:


H.R.4621
Title: Prevent Deceptive Census Look Alike Mailings Act
Sponsor: Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. [NY-14] (introduced 2/9/2010) Cosponsors (20)
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 111-155 [GPO: Text, PDF]

SUMMARY AS OF:
4/7/2010--Public Law. (There is 1 other summary)

Prevent Deceptive Census Look-Alike Mailings Act - Declares matter that bears the term "census" on its envelope, outside cover, or wrapper, but that constitutes a solicitation by a nongovernmental entity, to be nonmailable by the United States Postal Service, unless: (1) it satisfies one of the exceptions specified for otherwise nonmailable matter under existing law (such as displaying an appropriate disclaimer); and (2) its envelope, outside cover, or wrapper bears on its face an accurate return address including the name of the entity that sent it.



I can find the words "CENSUS DOCUMENT" on the envelope, as well as the declaration "DO NOT DESTROY - OFFICIAL DOCUMENT", yet I can find no trace of a return address at all, much less an accurate one, or one including the name of the entity that sent it.

And this wasn't some whackadoodle partisan bill. It passed 416-0. Seems someone forgot to inform Mr. Steele.



PS: By the way, Geezer - sorry about the confusion. I thought you were being coy, intentionally leaving out that part of the bill.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 5:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Coy??? Geezer???

You're much too kind Mike. MUCH too kind!

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:30 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
I gotta say, anyone who'd believe that this document is the official U.S. Census and not a fundraising appeal must be...well...not so bright. I get similar stuff from the DNC all the time, except they're called an official survey instead of a census. They're recycled along with the RNC ones.

"Keep the Shiny side up"


Surveys are optional.

With a Census, participation is required from EVERY USA citizen (No Exceptions, be they farmer, police, or even President), by the Constitution.

That's the difference.

The RNC is NOT an agency of the US Government, therefore, has NOT the power to conduct a Census.


It's bullshit like this that makes a legitimate Census Enumerator's job (from the US Census Bureau, Dept. of Commerce) all the harder.



--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:49 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.








Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:00 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I can find the words "CENSUS DOCUMENT" on the envelope, as well as the declaration "DO NOT DESTROY - OFFICIAL DOCUMENT", yet I can find no trace of a return address at all, much less an accurate one, or one including the name of the entity that sent it.



That'll teach me to try and read the actual legislation. I understood it as having the discalimer OR the address, not AND. Forgot all about looking for the CRS writeup.

That being said, I wish I could see both sides of the envelope, as many such solicitations have the return address on the flap.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.

(Emphasis added)

Anyone who DOESN'T think this at the very least APPEARS to have broken the law needs a serious eye exam and some serious English comprehension lessons.

You've seen the scans of the documents and the mailer; I've posted the wording of the law and shown quite clearly where and how the mailer violates that law.

You can argue that it's a petty violation, a small infraction, but to argue that there's no infraction at all is like holding something in your hands, feeling it, looking at it, and still arguing that the object in your hands doesn't exist at all. Anyone who subscribes to your positions needs to have their head checked.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:16 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Surveys are optional.

With a Census, participation is required from EVERY USA citizen (No Exceptions, be they farmer, police, or even President), by the Constitution.



With the U.S. Census that'd be true, however the U.S. government doesn't have a copyright on the word "Census".

I was thinking about this last night and believe this law could well have unintended consequences.

Say the Morton Arboretum wants to extend it's 2010 Tree Census http://www.mortonarb.org/our-impact/tree-census.html by sending out a letter to all homeowners with "Chicagoland Tree Census" on the envelope, asking what kind of trees they have on their property. If they don't put the "THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT" disclaimer on the envelope (edit to add: and their return address), they're in violation of Federal law.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You can argue that it's a petty violation, a small infraction, but to argue that there's no infraction at all is like holding something in your hands, feeling it, looking at it, and still arguing that the object in your hands doesn't exist at all. Anyone who subscribes to your positions needs to have their head checked.
Rappy is frequently in denial of absolute fact. That is why I call him delusional... and I mean that in a clinical sense, not a rhetorical one.
Quote:

Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible, for example, an ugly individual who believes they could be a successful model. ... A person with delusional disorder may be high functioning in daily life and may not exhibit odd or bizarre behavior aside from these delusions.

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:46 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Equivicate all you like, they've done this before, and a lw was passed making it illegal for them to do again - and yet here it is. They broke the law, the end.


Its well established that prhibitions such as the one described do not apply to political speech which is what these mailers are.

Thats why you can get political calls even if your on a 'do not call list'.

Is it false or misleading? Only if you can't read and people who can't read are not their target audience anyway.

H



"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 7:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hero is wrong, end of story. The laws DO apply to political mailers. If you have facts and cites to prove your point, please provide them, which you cannot, because you're wrong.

Raptor, if you seriously believe "Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation", then you'd best look to our legislators, because THEY not only believe it breaks the law, they voted in ANOTHER law just to stop the practice. Personally, I don't think they need a vacation, they take plenty as it is.

As to people being confused; anyone who thinks the American public can't be manipulated via tactics such as this is fooling themselves. Look how much effect robocalls filled with misleading information has done in the past. The American people are easily misinformed; if you want an example, look up how many (especially of the elderly) are scammed by money-raising schemes. It's just a fact of life, and the RNC knows it.

The back of the envelope is blank, by the way. However, the "return" envelope is thus:


The fact is BOTH parties have complained, and by unanimous vote passed recently passed a law JUST to prohibit such tactics. Unanimous vote: all members of both parties.
Quote:

The Republican National Committee is continuing to send out a misleading fundraising mailer labeled "Census Document," just weeks after Congress passed a law aimed at banning such mailers.

Last month, in response to virtually identical RNC mailers, members of both parties cried foul, raising the concern that the mailers could reduce the response rate for the actual Census -- which was mailed to Americans last month -- by confusing some voters. "Nothing could be more wrong," declared Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) -- not a lawmaker known for a commitment to bipartisanship. Congress quickly passed a law -- the House vote was 416-0 -- requiring that mailers marked "census" state the name and address of the sender on the outside of the envelope, and contain an unambiguous disclaimer making clear that the mailer is not affiliated with the government.

"What is with these guys?," she said. "We pass a law in record time, with unanimous bipartisan support in both houses of Congress, to reduce confusion about the real Census-- knowing that every census form that isn't returned costs taxpayers money and hurts accuracy. But there goes the RNC again, right back to trying to make a buck on the Census!"

She added: "I don't understand why the RNC has so much trouble following the law given the level of bi-partisan support to protect the Census."

But RNC spokesman Doug Heye told TPMmuckraker: "We simply looked at the new law, saw that it did not apply to our mailer and continued with the mail pieces." Heye did not elaborate on the RNC's view that the new law did not apply to its mailers.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/even_after_law_aimed
_at_banning_it_rnc_still_sendi.php
Quote:

Without a single vote of opposition in either chamber, Congress recently passed a law to restrict fake-census materials as part of sleazy fundraising campaigns.

Oddly enough, Dems aren't the only ones concerned. In a rare display of bipartisanship, some House Republicans aren't happy, either.
Quote:

A Republican Congressman just sharply criticized the RNC's mailers as an effort to "deceive people" in an interview with me just now, and confirmed that he and a second GOPer are set to demand that RNC chair Michael Steele drop the practice immediately lest they remain in violation of the law.

What's more, the U.S. Postal Service is investigating the RNC's use of the mailers, the Congressman, Jason Chaffetz of Utah, confirms to me.

"They're trying to be deceptive, and it outrages me," Chaffetz said by phone just now.

Chaffetz and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) are reportedly drafting a letter to the RNC, demanding they stop their fake-census mailings.

I realize that, on occasion, the RNC will do something outrageous in the hopes that its misconduct will generate its own attention. For example, it might create a loathsome web ad, which it has no intention of airing on television, simply in the hopes that the networks will air for free as part of the coverage of the story.

But if there's an upside to the fake-census story, I don't see it. The RNC just looks sleazy, reckless, and possibly even criminal, with no apparent upside. When far-right House Republicans are raising a fuss, you know the RNC has crossed a line.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_04/023530.ph
p


Their problem is, their fundraising isn’t keeping up with their spending, by a long shot; they're not only spending more than they're bringing in, but they're using more expensive methods to do so. So they’re getting desperate:
Quote:

A 2009 spending spree has left the Republican National Committee (RNC) with its worst election-year cash flow this decade.

The largest GOP party committee has $8.7 million in the bank heading into an election year with 37 governors’ races, a dozen major Senate contests, dozens more in the House and an all-important redistricting cycle on the horizon.

Said one RNC official: “It is very troubling, and the thing is, most people don’t understand this. But it is really troubling.”

The RNC had $22.8 million in cash and no debt when Michael Steele was elected chairman at the end of January, but has since seen its cash on hand drop to less than $9 million at the end of November.

Over the previous five months, while governors’ battles were being waged in New Jersey and Virginia, the committee saw its cash reserves drop by a full $15 million. Through November, the committee spent more than $90 million last year, which is nearly $20 million more than the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

“They’re spending money at 2002 levels when they are not raising money at those levels,” said a GOP operative. “That kind of thing worked when RNC was awash in money, but you can’t do that in this environment.”

Off-years like 2009 are generally a time for committees to get their financial house in order. They work to retire any debt left from the last election cycle and then build a war chest in preparation for the even-year election.

The RNC, though, made huge investments in New Jersey and Virginia, betting on the momentum created by those gubernatorial races to spur more giving.

Both were big GOP wins, but the question for many in the party is whether they were worth such a dent in the party’s coffers. And even subtracting the $13 million spent in those races — $9 million in Virginia and $4 million in New Jersey — the committee has just about broken even since Steele took over.

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) lost both races, but saw its cash on hand climb to a debt-free $13 million. That’s not a whole lot better than the RNC, but the DNC began the year in much worse fiscal shape, with $5.6 million in cash and $5 million in debt.

RNC spokeswoman Gail Gitcho noted that Republicans had taken just one governorship or Senate seat from Democrats in the last four years before the wins in New Jersey and Virginia.

While the RNC continues to spend heavily on consultants and outside help — about half of the $90 million it spent between January and November — the DNC has moved much of its operation indoors.

The RNC has spent about twice as much as the DNC on consultants this cycle, according to a review of Federal Election Commission (FEC) data.

About $35 million of the $90 million spent by the RNC has gone to direct mail and telemarketing — its trademark methods of rounding up donors. The DNC has spent about $11 million on those two things, but has raised nearly as much as the RNC.

http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/4999865.html



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:00 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Equivicate all you like, they've done this before, and a lw was passed making it illegal for them to do again - and yet here it is. They broke the law, the end.


Its well established that prhibitions such as the one described do not apply to political speech which is what these mailers are.

Thats why you can get political calls even if your on a 'do not call list'.

Is it false or misleading? Only if you can't read and people who can't read are not their target audience anyway.

H



"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.



Once again, the lawyer lies. The law in question was passed specifically because of such mailers.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:01 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.



Deny reality - the typical Raptard response.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I think you only need change one letter to be accurate:
Quote:

Deny reality - the typical Rapturd response.



"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:20 AM

STORYMARK


Either way works. I like to throw the "tard" in there, because it's useful in illiciting more proof of that douchebag's hypocrisy. He'll hurl that word at others, but when you use it on him , he likes to accuse folks of hating the handicapped.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:31 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


It's insulting and demeaning to call Rappy a retard. It insults the mentally retarded, who are better and smarter than he is. Rappy is a willful moron, aggressively stupid and militantly ignorant. And he's quite proud of that.


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.



Deny reality - the typical Raptard response.



Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response.

Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 12:14 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.



Deny reality - the typical Raptard response.



Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response.



Well, you are the expert.

Quote:


Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless.



Oh, so you've gone from saying no law was broken - but it clearly was - so now you're falling back on the "it doesn't matter" excuse..... Once again, you prove yourself entirely willing to overlook crimes if they're committed by your side. Classic Rappy.

So, with nothing else to fall back on, you insluted and evaded.... like I said - you are the expert.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 28, 2010 12:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.



Deny reality - the typical Raptard response.



Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response.

Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless.




Insult and evade. Typical brain dead Rappy response.

That sounds an awful lot like you're backing off your earlier certainty that no laws were broken at all.

Why is it that you're fine with demanding Hispanics have all THEIR papers in order, but you don't give a damn if your own party has its own papers in order? Don't you find that all just a wee bit too coincidental and convenient?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:17 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Once again, the lawyer lies. The law in question was passed specifically because of such mailers.


Perhaps, although many folks complain about such "official documents" like the "official" Obama housing modification letter that showed up in my mailbox yesterday.

Even if they passed a law that says "you can't say "Census" on a political fundraising letter, such a prohibition would be ignored because the Supreme Court has made it clear that political speech is protected speech and also that fundraising letters (and calls) are political speech.

I note that the folks on this board consider free speech a subjective right that must be protected at all costs...except when they disagree with the speaker.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:19 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why is it that you're fine with demanding Hispanics have all THEIR papers in order, but you don't give a damn if your own party has its own papers in order? Don't you find that all just a wee bit too coincidental and convenient?


I agree, apples are exactly like oranges and the pot should be charged with ethnic intimidation.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I note that the folks on this board consider free speech a subjective right that must be protected at all costs...except when they disagree with the speaker.


Incorrect, this "folk" considers it an ABSOLUTE right, to be protected at all costs...ESPECIALLY when they disagree with the speaker.

And you bloody well know that, you ass.

-F

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Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

I note that the folks on this board consider free speech a subjective right that must be protected at all costs...except when they disagree with the speaker.




That's mighty funny, coming from you, you who are the ONLY person on this board who has ever come right out and claimed that PirateNews SHOULD NOT have any kind of Constitutional protections, and you who has said time and time again that all legal protections should apply to everyone EXCEPT PN.

It seems you're the only one here who is trying to limit anyone's free speech rights. Well, when you disagree with the speaker, anyway.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Thursday, April 29, 2010 4:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I note that the folks on this board consider free speech a subjective right that must be protected at all costs...except when they disagree with the speaker
What an incredibly inane remark, you didn't even think it through. It's both houses of Congress which wrote the law that it's illegal--there were already laws protecting the census from fraud before and they weren't GOOD enough, so they wrote yet another to try and protect it against just this.

I realize you think you're wiser than all of the House and Senate, but thinking it doesn't make it so. You're welcome to agree to disagree with what we say or believe, but we, at least, are depending on the law of the land for our opinions; you are not.

Not all "speech" is "free". There are caveats, and this is one of them. Accept it or not, but if you put your own opinions above those of us who both recognize the wrongness of this AND agree with our governing body, guess who's the ass?

Are you SO intent on defending the RNC at all costs that you're willing to overlook the obvious fraud in this instance, law aside? If so, I've got another one for you: wait for it.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...



Try this one on for size, if you're so determined to defend the RNC fundraising effort:
Quote:

The Republican National Committee at the end of last year struck a deal with the Michigan Republican Party that if the state party could raise what turned out to be a half a million dollars for the RNC from its donors, the committee would immediately give the money back, in a scheme apparently devised to increase the RNC’s 2009 fundraising numbers.

“It was a known secret that a deal had been struck on the topic,” a former RNC official confirmed to The Daily Caller.

The allegations appear to be backed up by FEC reports: Fifteen donors from Michigan maxed out their donations to the committee on a single day —Dec. 31 — the last day of 2009 — giving $456,000 to the committee. Over the next two months, $500,000 was disbursed back from the RNC’s coffers to those of the Michigan Republican Party, with $250,000 given in January and another $250,000 disbursed in February.

No state came close to reaching the half a million dollars disbursed back to the Michigan GOP over the following two months. Michigan received by far the most disbursed money of all states over January and February.

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/07/former-rnc-official-steele-struck-a-
deal-with-michigan-gop-to-increase-fundraising-numbers-possibly-to-circumvent-federal-funding-limits
/

Is THAT illegal enough for you? If they're so lilly white (pun intended) and there's nothing wrong with their census fundraiser, wanna defend this? It's off topic, yes, but I'm sick of people trying to make excuses for them!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Thursday, April 29, 2010 9:55 AM

FREMDFIRMA



That was the other thing which hung Black Bart out to dry and convinced him to find another career path, given he was one of the primary facilitators...

Bein evil is one thing, being evil AND incompetent is intolerable, playin with sums like that when you don't even know how to properly launder the money ?

Seriously, they make it too easy!

-F

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Thursday, April 29, 2010 3:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Anyone who thinks this is breaking any law needs a serious vacation.



Deny reality - the typical Raptard response.



Insult and evade. Typical brain dead response.

Idiots will fuss over the 'butterfly ballot' will likely get upset over this mailer. It's beyond inane and pointless.




Insult and evade. Typical brain dead Rappy response.

That sounds an awful lot like you're backing off your earlier certainty that no laws were broken at all.

Why is it that you're fine with demanding Hispanics have all THEIR papers in order, but you don't give a damn if your own party has its own papers in order? Don't you find that all just a wee bit too coincidental and convenient?





Why not just answer the question, and stop trying to change the subject or hurl mindless, petty insults ?

Too much to ask ?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 2:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Still no response from Rappy?

Color me not surprised in the least.

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