REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Spill baby, spill!

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 14:40
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Friday, April 30, 2010 3:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


After days of soothing words and reassurances from BP, the spill turns out to be even worse than the Exxon Valdez.

A series of explosions and spills on offshore rigs had the Obama administration ALREADY primed to write new regulations for offshore rigs. It's clear that the oil companies, whose only motive IS profit, cannot be trusted to safely operate offshore rigs, nor can they be trusted to respond to disasters OR to clean up their mess.

They are simply following the successful business model: Make off with the profits, and leave the costs to everyone else. In this case, the costs include destroying the oceanic and coastal environment. This affects fishermen and tourism operators, and degrades the protection of human habitation from the sea by degrading the marshes.


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Friday, April 30, 2010 3:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


A "series" of explosions and spills from offshore rigs ?

Care to recite them all ?

As for current BP disaster, I've yet to hear even any speculation as to what happened, what caused it.

Seems a bit curious to me. ( not to go all PN or anything )






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 3:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rappy, I don't have time right now to google up everything. You can take me on my word, knowing that I always have the broadest set of facts to back up my claims, you can google this up for yourself, or you can wait a day or two while I do your thinking for you.

Most of the accidents have been traced to poor training of, and communication between, the "operators" of the rig (the owners, in this case BP) and the "contractors" who actually run the rig. It's a story I've seen over and over and over again as a regulator of oil refineries: They get rid of their experienced people and bring in a bunch of shit-for-pay newbies, and then things blow up.

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Friday, April 30, 2010 3:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Will follow up, when time permits.

But I don't recall a rig like this blowing up, toppling over, sinking and causing anywhere near this sort of disaster. I know rigs have gone down before, but in calm seas or no hurricane ? ( Yeah, I know there was a really big explosion.... what caused it ? )


Here's a crazy idea.....want to save the pristine waters and sea life in the oceans? Drill in ANWR.







Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 5:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


What's really ironic is that this happened just 11 days after former half-governor and full-time twit - er, Twitterer - Sarah Palin gave a speech IN NEW ORLEANS claiming that we didn't need any more studies, we didn't need any safety measures, what we needed was to just "Drill, baby! Drill!"

How's that oily-spilly thing workin' out for ya, Sarah?


Looks like at the very least we can expect some rigid new regulations, among them requirements similar to what Brazil has in place, to require remote cut-off switches on the ocean-bottom well heads.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 5:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How do you save the pristine wilderness of the ANWR, then?

Sounds like you're admitting that no matter where you drill, you run the very real risk of destroying the environment, or at the very least having a massive negative impact on it.

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Friday, April 30, 2010 7:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sig, I’ll get this one for you, given I spend more time looking up facts and cites and searchin for topics that might be of interest than I do actually responding here lately, it seems. Since I have more free time to so, it only seems fair to catch this one for you:
Quote:

I don't recall a rig like this blowing up, toppling over, sinking and causing anywhere near this sort of disaster.
In 1980, The Alexander Kielland was a Norwegian semi-submersible drilling rig that capsized whilst working in the Ekofisk oil field in March 1980 killing 123 people.

In 1984, during a blowout and fire on the Petrobras' Enchova PCE-1 Platform off Brazil, 42 workers lost their lives attempting to evacuate the platform.

In 1987, a blowout led to six months of trouble for the Steelhead Platform, resulting in fire and extensive platform damage.

In 1987, the Mississippi Canyon 311 A Bourbon platform in the Gulf of Mexico was tilted to one side by an extensive underground blowout.

On 1988. Petrobras' Enchova PCE-1 Platform again suffered a blowout and fire, ending with the loss of the platform.

July 1988, 167 people died when Occidental Petroleum's Piper Alpha offshore production platform, on the Piper field in the UK sector of the North Sea, exploded after a gas leak.

In 1993, explosion and fire destroyed a platform control room and damaged adjacent platforms on Lake Maracaibo, Venezuela, with eleven fatalites.

In 2005, a support vessel collided with Mumbai High North rupturing a riser and causing a major fire that destroyed the platform

In 2001, the Petrobras 36 Oil Platform exploded and killed 11 people in Brazil. The platform sank five days after the explosions.

I left off any that occurred in storms, high winds and hurricanes. But there are many more at http://www.oilrigdisasters.co.uk/, which lists them by deadliest, most expensive, offshore blowouts, structural collapse, sunk rigs and hurricane damage.

As to how much of a spill each one caused, that's not listed, you'll have to look it up yourself. Given the fact that the Exxon Valdiz was never cleaned up, ANY spill should obviously be considered serious and an environmental disaster, in my opinion.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 30, 2010 7:26 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


We don't need more drilling, we need less.

We don't need less regulation, we need more.

Here's the logical end result of "Drill, Baby, Drill!": "Spill, Baby, SPILL!"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/ns/msnbc_tv#36861570

Hear Ms. Palin's comments at about 1:50 in.




The slick as seen against the shoreline of Louisiana.




Coast Guard ships working to contain a tiny section of the spill.




Another view of the shoreline and the slick, which is still growing.
















Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 7:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, gawd, that last one made my heart lurch.

I spent a goodly amount of time cleaning up birds and others from a SMALL oil spill we had off Rodeo Beach, where MMC is located. It was heart rending, to say the least; by the way, that's back when Dawn was first discovered as the perfect way to clean oil spills off birds and give them the best chance at recovery. I've bought Dawn ever since.

We had another just outside the Bay, and I helped take flyers and a packet of information around to boat owners to teach them how to keep their boats safe and how to clean the shit off their hulls. I didn't have the heart to do spill cleanup by then, I'd seen too much in rehab of seals with plastic rings digging into their flesh, harbor seals torn up by props, etc.

That one, I also helped clean the crap off Stinson Beach, which was lots of fun. You had to wear special protection to keep the stuff off you because it was toxic...and we were just doing the last of it, the big stuff had been done by hazmat teams!

But this; this is one of the horrendous ones that will kill so many above and below the water line, it sickens me something fierce. I wish I were there to help; I'd even stomach cleaning wildlife; this one's gonna need a TON of help.

When I heard Sarahcuda do her "drill baby drill" I wanted to scream and smack her--she as governor of the state which suffered (and still suffers) the Exxon Valdiz should know better, of all people. Just showed me what she was, if I didn't know already.

Sick people who just want profits; may they all rot in...oil slicks!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 30, 2010 7:53 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Tesla Motors is looking better every day...

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Friday, April 30, 2010 7:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Remember the Valdez? Twenty years late:
Quote:

wenty years after the Exxon Valdez supertanker spilled nearly 11 million gallons of crude oil into Prince William Sound in southern Alaska, everything is pristine and natural again, right? Not exactly. A study in 2004 estimated that perhaps 25,000 gallons of oil remained along the sound's gravel beaches and was degrading very slowly.

Slthough Exxon says it spent more than $2 billion in cleanup, and billions in compensation, the oil company is still battling court-ordered damage payments. They still resist paying the restitution required by the courts. Twenty years later, those local fishing economies still haven’t recovered. The fisheries have not come back. In 2007, 25,000 gallons of oil are still under the surface and on the seabed of the beaches in Prince William Sound. The oil remains toxic in some areas. March 24th remains a day of mourning for a whole ecosystem. There is still evidence of oil as far as 450 miles away from the Sound, and there are still areas of the beach where it’s still as toxic as 20 years ago. Some wildlife has returned, but most fishermen moved away or found other ways to make a living.

Even worse, experts say there is no technology to completely clean up an oil spill. With the prospect of more oil exploration in the region, the environment will continue to be at risk.

Exxon says it has cleaned up the spill and is a good corporate citizen. Nature, wildlife, and even residents of the area are still far from recovery.

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/01/18/Why_Alaska_Isnt_Free_of_Exxon_Va
ldez_Crude
/

“It’s going to live on in history as the worst environmental disaster we’ve ever encountered. We have to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.”

Not anymore. Imagine what the long-term results of THIS one will be, or the future ones (because there WILL be more), and I dare anyone to defend “Drill, Baby, Drill”.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 30, 2010 8:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Tesla Motors is looking better every day...




Look into the Nissan Leaf. More affordable, at least. Not exactly pretty, though. But also not $100,000.00, so it's got that going for it.

There will need to be oil. There will need to be drilling. What there need NOT be is such a cavalier attitude about it, the whole, "Eh, shit happens, no one could have foreseen this or taken any kinds of measures to lessen its impact" outlook. People HAVE foreseen this, and countries HAVE taken measures to lessen the impact of events like this. To say we couldn't is to admit and embrace laziness and stupidity.

And yes, IT WILL MAKE OIL COST MORE. I just want to get that on the record before anyone accuses me of not thinking of that end of things. Yes, oil and gas prices will go up.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 8:22 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg





Maybe George Carlin was right... we were here to invent plastic... and oil.

lol


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Friday, April 30, 2010 8:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Carlin's great. Made me laugh. I hope he's right. But he's wrong that I go around worrying...I vent my feelings, then go about my day doing my tiny part, secure in the knowledge there's nothing else I can do, and that we probably WILL be shaken off like so many fleas. At least I certainly hope so.
Quote:

oil and gas prices will go up


Works for ME. The sooner it gets expensive enough, the sooner people start waking UP!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 30, 2010 8:31 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Works for ME. The sooner it gets expensive enough, the sooner people start waking UP!"

How boojie, lib of you Niks...




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Friday, April 30, 2010 8:40 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Yeah, this is ghastly, but try to look at the brightside of things.

I'm down for the end of the world, or at least all life on earth. This is a step in the right direction.

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Friday, April 30, 2010 8:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nope. I'm no more Bourgeois than anyone else hanging onto the lower middle class by their fingernails.

I'm just rooting for the planet, just like Carlin.

I happen to think we're doomed, too; I'd just like to see us do as little more damage as possible before we go extinct. It'll be a hardship on me, probably a pretty big one. Such is life, I'm a microspore flea, too.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 30, 2010 9:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"Works for ME. The sooner it gets expensive enough, the sooner people start waking UP!"

How boojie, lib of you Niks...







Ah, yes - Wulf-childe, the champion of the poor. Well, at least the WHITE poor, eh?

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Friday, April 30, 2010 9:22 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Oh NO!! Im being called a raciss! Whatever shall I do?

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Friday, April 30, 2010 9:41 AM

CANTTAKESKY




One of my earliest "music videos" on YouTube, for Hoobastank's The Reason.

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Friday, April 30, 2010 10:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Oh NO!! Im being called a raciss! Whatever shall I do?




I'm not sure what you mean by "raciss". Are you poking fun at Rappy's inability to properly pluralize any word that ends in "-ist"?

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Friday, April 30, 2010 12:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Umm...

Yanno, seems there's a market here that's going untapped.

Say, just for the sake of argument, some folk knew of a way to suck up, filter out, and reclaim that oil efficiently...

Would you be in favor of allowing them to keep it, and refine/sell it themselves, or sell it back to the oil company at a profit ?

Askin for a reason here, mind.

-F

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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
What's really ironic is that this happened just 11 days after former half-governor and full-time twit - er, Twitterer - Sarah Palin gave a speech IN NEW ORLEANS claiming that we didn't need any more studies, we didn't need any safety measures, what we needed was to just "Drill, baby! Drill!"

How's that oily-spilly thing workin' out for ya, Sarah?




Yeah, that is interesting, isn't it?

1st time any such event like this has happened....






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How do you save the pristine wilderness of the ANWR, then?

Sounds like you're admitting that no matter where you drill, you run the very real risk of destroying the environment, or at the very least having a massive negative impact on it.



A football field area in an empty tundra ?

'pristine wilderness' ?

Please.

Far easier to clean up a land leak than one at the bottom of open water.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:10 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
What's really ironic is that this happened just 11 days after former half-governor and full-time twit - er, Twitterer - Sarah Palin gave a speech IN NEW ORLEANS claiming that we didn't need any more studies, we didn't need any safety measures, what we needed was to just "Drill, baby! Drill!"

How's that oily-spilly thing workin' out for ya, Sarah?




Yeah, that is interesting, isn't it?

1st time any such event like this has happened....



No, it's not the first time any such event like this has happened. See the list Niki provided above. It's more common than you'd think - both the exploding platforms AND the sinking of them afterwards. What makes it interesting is the irony of it happening just after Palin made a speech basically saying that kind of thing was nothing to worry about.

But feel free to go looking for conspiracies in all that, or half-implying them by continually saying in effect, "Well, isn't THAT interesting... Hmmmm... I wonder..." It's almost as big a conspiracy as the notion that it was a mere coincidence, the WTC being hit by two airliners a month after Bush received a report claiming that that was EXACTLY the kind of thing Al Qaeda was determined to do. Hmmmmm... makes ya wonder, huh? :facepalm:

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


First time any such event LIKE THIS has happened.

I kinda grew up in the South. Don't recall a disaster of this magnitude ever occurring in the Gulf.

As for conspiracies, this makes for a far more believable scenario than Bush setting charges to take out the levees.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
How do you save the pristine wilderness of the ANWR, then?

Sounds like you're admitting that no matter where you drill, you run the very real risk of destroying the environment, or at the very least having a massive negative impact on it.



A football field area in an empty tundra ?

'pristine wilderness' ?

Please.

Far easier to clean up a land leak than one at the bottom of open water.



So you're saying leaks are a risk no matter where you drill, right?

Far easier to clean up the leak you don't have because you didn't drill in the first place. Fewer wells, fewer drilling sites, fewer leaks.


Quote:

The refuge supports a greater variety of plant and animal life than any other protected area in the Arctic Circle. A continuum of six different ecozones spans some 200 miles (300 km) north to south.
Along the northern boundary of the refuge, barrier islands, coastal lagoons, salt marshes, and river deltas provide habitat for migratory waterbirds including sea ducks, geese, swans, and shorebirds. Fish such as dolly varden and arctic cisco are found in nearshore waters. Coastal lands and sea ice are used by caribou seeking relief from biting insects during summer, and by polar bears hunting seals and giving birth in snow dens during winter.



Sounds like a lot more than a football field in that pristine wilderness. And it sounds like quite a bit more than just your "empty tundra" You *DID* get that they call it a "National Wildlife Refuge", right? Maybe you're thinking of Lambeau Field, the famous "frozen tundra" which actually IS a football field.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Funny, I never SAID that, but keep interjecting what ever the hell you want. You usually do.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
First time any such event LIKE THIS has happened.



... NEAR WHERE YOU LIVE. As pointed out above, events LIKE THIS aren't uncommon. They tend to occur where there's drilling.

Quote:


I kinda grew up in the South. Don't recall a disaster of this magnitude ever occurring in the Gulf.



That's like saying "I kinda grew up in New York. Don't recall anyone flying airliners into skyscrapers before." So what? So that means there's no further risk? One time and no more? What's the point you're trying to make? No one could have foreseen this happening?

Quote:


As for conspiracies, this makes for a far more believable scenario than Bush setting charges to take out the levees.



"Far more believable"? How so? They both seem pretty much out of cloudcuckooland. And of course, I never said that, but keep interjecting things I never said. You usually do.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:36 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Far more believable"? How so? They both seem pretty much out of cloudcuckooland.


Whoa, stop, hold the presses.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CloudCuckoolander
Ok, on behalf of us cloudcuckoolanders I can say with some authority that he is NOT a citizen or resident alien and if he is here, that's illegal immigration and we should deport him immediately!

Besides, we can prove it, he doesn't have any weirdness coupons!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdnessCoupon


-Frem

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Friday, April 30, 2010 1:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



There's far more for Obama and those who support him to gain by this event taking place than anything near what Bush could have ( what the hell was there to gain again ? ) by taking out a section of New Orleans.

The sinking of the Deepwater Horizon has long list of implications, and we ALL know how this administration LOVES a crisis!

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.

From Cap and Trade, to regulation / take over of BIG OIL, ...

Is it any wonder that one of the first things this administration is doing about this disaster is to send a team of LAWYERS down to New Orleans ?

UPDATE 1-US Justice Dept sends team to monitor oil spill

WASHINGTON, April 30 (Reuters) - U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said on Friday he was dispatching a team of lawyers to New Orleans to monitor the oil spill and that the Obama administration would vigorously enforce environmental laws.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN3024154920100430?type=marketsNews


You go get litigious on that big,bad oil slick, Eric!!









Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Friday, April 30, 2010 2:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Get litigious, indeed. Make sure and send every single one of those cleanup bills to British Petroleum, too. We certainly don't want taxpayer money being used to "bail out" oil-spilling
"Big Oil" companies, do we?

Heck, shouldn't the federal government stay out of it completely? I thought you didn't want them involved. Leave it to the state. Bobby Jindall can handle it, can't he? Let him take up the costs with BP on his own.

Does that sound like a better plan to you? Keep the dreaded big gubmint out of your oil spill?

By the way, that not letting a crisis go to waste thing? That's straight out of the BushCo playbook. And they had a ton to gain by the flooding of the poor areas of New Orleans. Run the po' folks out and let the rich developers (Bush's "base" as he refers to the rich) come in and gentrify the entire area. I know you don't want to believe that, and neither do I, but there WERE motives for flooding New Orleans.

I don't think it was intentional; I think they definitely played up an agenda in the aftermath, though, same as with 9/11. They used horrific circumstances to "never let a crisis go to waste".

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Monday, May 3, 2010 8:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


The sinking of the Deepwater Horizon has long list of implications, and we ALL know how this administration LOVES a crisis!

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.




Classic inhuman response.

Bravo.

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Monday, May 3, 2010 9:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I repeat: He's not here to engage in discussions or debates, he's here to piss people off.

Limbaugh, et al., gave him talking points. Whether he's just mimicking them or actually believes them, he's repulsively loathsome in his desperate desire to blame Obama for anything and everything. It would be pitiful if it weren't so disgusting.

That said, just because you don't remember anything exactly like this happening Crapper is completely irrelevant. I guess you missed those "39 well blowouts" over the last 14 years in the Gulf of Mexico...(see below)

Want a list of the major oil spills around the world?
Quote:

1991 - During the Gulf War, Iraqi forces opened valves and destroyed oil facilities in Kuwait, releasing about 520 million gallons (1.9 billion litres) of oil, creating a slick that covered some 4,000 square miles (10,360 square km) in the biggest spill in history.

1983 - In the gulf off Iran, a tanker struck a drilling platform which collapsed into the sea, releasing some 80 million gallons (303 million litres) before it was repaired.

1983 - The Castillo de Bellver sanks off the South African coast, spilling 79 million gallons (300 million litres) of oil.

1979 - A Greek oil tanker collided with another ship during a tropical storm, spilling 90 million gallons (340 million litres) of crude oil off the coast of Trinidad and Tobago.

1978 - The Ixtoc exploratory well blew out in the Bay of Campeche off Ciudad del Carmen, Mexico. By the time it was brought under control almost a year later, it spilled some 140 million gallons (530 million litres) of oil into the bay.

1978 - The Amoco Cadiz ran aground off the coast of Britanny, France, spilling its entire cargo of 69 million gallons (260 million litres) of oil and polluting 200 miles (322 km) of coastline.

1967 - The Torrey Canyon, one of the first oil supertankers, hit a reef and spilled 31 million gallons (117 million litres) of crude oil in the sea between England and France in the first major oil spill. It contaminated about 180 miles of coast (290 km), and many of the attempted measures to clean up the slick proved more deadly to wildlife than the oil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/7654043/Major-oil-spills-
the-worst-ecological-disasters.html


The Exxon Valdez was a baby in comparions, spilling only 10.8 million gallons, yet polluted 1,100 miles of coastline...much of which is still devastated today.

This one had spilled about 7 million gallons by April 30. It'll dwarf the Exxon Valdez easily.

After the Montara oil platform blew up in Australia’s Timor Sea last August, it took 10 weeks to stop the flow of oil. If recent history is any guide, it may be months before the sea of oil stops growing.

You REALLY want someone to blame?
Quote:

According to Transocean Ltd., the operator of the drilling rig, the blowout resulted just after HALLIBURTON workers had finished pumping cement to fill the space between the pipe and the sides of the hole and had begun temporarily plugging the well with cement.

The oil-drilling procedure called cementing is coming under scrutiny as a possible cause of the explosion on the Deepwater Horizon rig in the Gulf of Mexico that has led to one of the biggest oil spills in U.S. history, drilling experts said Thursday.

Regulators have previously identified problems in the cementing process as a leading cause of well blowouts, in which oil and natural gas surge out of a well with explosive force. When cement develops cracks or doesn't set properly, oil and gas can escape, ultimately flowing out of control. The gas is highly combustible and prone to ignite, as it appears to have done aboard the Deepwater Horizon, which was leased by BP PLC, the British oil giant.

The scrutiny on cementing will focus attention on Halliburton Co., the oilfield-services firm that was handling the cementing process on the rig. The timing of the cementing in relation to the blast—and the procedure's history of causing problems—point to it as a possible culprit in the Deepwater Horizon disaster, experts said. Several other drilling experts agreed, though they cautioned that the investigation into what went wrong at the Deepwater Horizon site is still in its preliminary stages.

A 2007 study by three U.S. Minerals Management Service officials found that cementing was a factor in 18 of 39 well blowouts in the Gulf of Mexico over a 14-year period. That was the single largest factor, ahead of equipment failure and pipe failure.

Halliburton also was the cementer on a well that suffered a big blowout last August in the Timor Sea, off Australia. The rig there caught fire and a well leaked tens of thousands of barrels of oil over 10 weeks before it was shut down.

http://www.truthout.org/whistlelower-bps-other-offshore-drilling-proje
ct-gulf-vulnerable-catastrophe59027


Halliburton, notice.

As to ANWAR:
Quote:

In 1998, the USGS estimated that between 5.7 and 16.0 billion barrels of technically recoverable crude oil and natural gas liquids are in the coastal plain area of ANWR. (That would be between 239 and 672 billion gallons)

In comparison, the estimated volume of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil in the rest of the United States is about 120 billion barrels (or 5,042 billion gallons).

Yeah, it's sure worth endangering one of the last pristine areas in our country FOREVER (things don't recover from oil spills). I know: "You've seen one tree, you've seen them all". Blind, deaf asshole.

You're so desperate to look for conspiracies; look at Halliburton and BP:
Quote:

A former contractor who worked for British Petroleum (BP) claims the oil conglomerate broke federal laws and violated its own internal procedures by failing to maintain crucial safety and engineering documents related to one of the firms other deepwater production projects in the Gulf of Mexico, according to internal emails and other documents.

The whistleblower first raised concerns about safety issues related to BP Atlantis, the world's largest and deepest semi-submersible oil and natural gas platform, located about 200 miles south of New Orleans, in November 2008.

It was then that the whistleblower discovered that the drilling platform had been operating without a majority of the engineer-approved documents it needed to run safely, leaving the platform vulnerable to a catastrophic disaster that would far surpass the massive oil spill that began last week following a deadly explosion on a BP-operated drilling rig.

BP's own internal communications show that company officials were made aware of the issue and feared that the document shortfalls related to Atlantis "could lead to catastrophic operator error" and must be addressed.

Last May, Mike Sawyer, a Texas-based engineer who works for Apex Safety Consultants, voluntarily agreed to evaluate BP's Atlantis subsea document database and the whistleblower's allegations regarding BP's engineering document shortfall related to Atlantis. Sawyer concluded that of the 2,108 P&IDs BP maintained that dealt specifically with the subsea components of its Atlantis production project, 85 percent did not receive engineer approval.

Even worse, 95 percent of Atlantis' subsea welding records did not receive final approval, calling into question the integrity of thousands of crucial welds on subsea components that, if they were to rupture, could result in an oil spill 30 times worse than the one that occurred after the explosion on Deepwater Horizon last week.

In a report Sawyer prepared after his review, he said BP's "widespread pattern of unapproved design, testing and inspection documentation on the Atlantis subsea project creates a risk of a catastrophic incident threatening the [Gulf of Mexico] deep-water environment and the safety of platform workers." Moreover, "the extent of documentation discrepancies creates a substantial risk that a catastrophic event could occur at any time."

"BP's recklessness in regards to the Atlantis project is a clear example of how the company has a pattern of failing to comply with minimum industry standards for worker and environmental safety," Sawyer said.

BP has consistently put profits ahead of safety.

http://www.truthout.org/whistlelower-bps-other-offshore-drilling-proje
ct-gulf-vulnerable-catastrophe59027
(details on their fines and PREVIOUS FELONY CONVICTIONS--there are many, many--at that website)

I know what Limbaugh is spouting; if you want to believe his idiocy rather than the FACTS and who is most likely at fault for the Deepwater Horizon, your an idiot, as well as blind and deaf.

You want connections? How about Bush and Halliburton, Bush and Big Oil, and how BP got away with all this shit FOR YEARS (roughly 2002-2007). I wonder who was in charge of regulation during that time???

I know this is far too long for your little brain to even CONSIDER reading, so I'll let you just go on desperately looking around for SOMETHING that might connect this disaster to Obama, liberals, or whoever you want. I don't apologize for what I have written; when it comes to this, you ARE a deaf, blind idiot so why not say so.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, May 3, 2010 11:05 AM

DREAMTROVE




Massive ordinance set off 5 miles underground precedes massive earthquakes along the fault line, and then an oil rig collapses.

I'd have to say this one is either friendly fire or in BP's case, an actual own goal.

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Monday, May 3, 2010 11:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


The sinking of the Deepwater Horizon has long list of implications, and we ALL know how this administration LOVES a crisis!

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.




Classic inhuman response.

Bravo.




Then we agree. Rahm Emanuel is pretty damn inhuman. HE said it. Never forget that. Never.






Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Monday, May 3, 2010 11:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Do It appears the cause may well have been as I reported above...and it EXPLODED, didn't just fall over; so why jump to the conclusion it's all a conspiracy?

What would be the purpose of causing a gigantic earthquake to make an oil rig explode, even if you could? Why would anyone (our government?) want to create such a disaster?

Why would BP want to explode one of their own oil rigs, get stuck for a huge tab, and lose all that oil? Sorry, doesn't make sense to me.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, May 3, 2010 12:14 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


I'm not usually much of a boat person, but...



In the midst of a big shitty oil disaster, that is one pretty ship.


Needs to tow a giant shop-vac to suck up all the oil.


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Monday, May 3, 2010 12:16 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's far more for Obama and those who support him to gain by this event taking place than anything near what Bush could have ( what the hell was there to gain again ? ) by taking out a section of New Orleans.



From New Orleans, maybe. But ol' Dubya had a field day with applying that approach to 9/11, so he's still the reigning champ of opprotunistic douchebags.


Quote:

You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.



Then we agree. Rahm Emanuel is pretty damn inhuman. HE said it. Never forget that. Never.



Not a fan of the guy myself. Though you should love him since he's embraced the Bush/Cheney playbook like that.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, May 3, 2010 12:20 PM

DREAMTROVE


Niki

You miss the point. They weren't trying to blow up an oil rig, they were digging some very deep tunnels looking for oil, which they did with explosives. Two days after the most massive man made explosion at unprecedented 5 miles depth and then two days later begins a long series of quakes. It might be coincidence, but it's a damn stupid thing to do at any rate. Something similar happened in South Africa a few years back with 4 mile deep blasts. I don't think the blast itself is sufficient to cause anything, but it can create a small fissure through which the magma, lava whathaveyou can start to work though, and as it does, it forces things apart. The whole event ended in South America moving 3" west, and the Earth tilting off it's axis. Yes, that would have happened anyway, but it might have happened slower. Just gnawing it over. At any rate, I strongly suspect seismic activity caused the rig disaster, and there's a possibility that activity was indirectly caused by lots of guys under water with bombs. Oh, another one, this stuff never gets talked about, but you can see the statistical abberations: N. Korean nuclear tests and earthquakes, also, Iran/Pakistan and earthquakes. Just saying there's a possible correlation between people setting off large amounts of explosive underground and seismic activity, which isn't much of a stretch.

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Monday, May 3, 2010 1:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, if you'd rather believe that than what the experts are looking at, I won't argue with you. But they are looking at the cementing done by Halliburton:
Quote:

Regulators have previously identified problems in the cementing process as a leading cause of well blowouts, in which oil and natural gas surge out of a well with explosive force. When cement develops cracks or doesn't set properly, oil and gas can escape, ultimately flowing out of control. The gas is highly combustible and prone to ignite, as it appears to have done aboard the Deepwater Horizon
Bearing in mind that this problem has been the cause of OTHER oil-rig explosions, and that both BP and Halliburton have been proven to be negligent in the past, I think I'll put my money on that.

I understand what you're saying, and if it weren't for the past record, I might be more inclined to consider it. But given all the facts as we know them now, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Monday, May 3, 2010 1:49 PM

BYTEMITE


Oh god! Groundwater seepage of a land based oil spill the size of Rhode Island! Oh god! No! Happy thoughts! HAPPY THOUGHTS!

*Runs screaming from thread*

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Monday, May 3, 2010 1:53 PM

BYTEMITE


:o I just saw DT. :o

Interesting. DT's idea IS possible, based on what I know about fractures, earthquakes, and oil drilling. And you do see the statistical comparisons.

Niki's has historical precedent, but it doesn't rule out this one... Or even the possibility that some of those historical precedents are CAUSED by this same issue, and that we have really been destabilizing continental fault structure with human activity.

We don't really know the cause, nor are we likely to find out because either way it's an accident.

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Monday, May 3, 2010 2:30 PM

DREAMTROVE


Niki,

Not a disagreement at all. Both could easily be true. I mean, think about it: The rig could be built out of plastic if there were no seismic activity at all. Just set up on pontoons, tether, and run a pipe to the well. Of course, and movement and that might die on you, but who cares, it's not your country anyway, didn't Halliburton move it's headquarters to Dubai or something?

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Monday, May 3, 2010 3:40 PM

MAL4PREZ


Of much interest, though I haven't time to look into the research, nor to identify the group that funded it:

Scientists Find That Tons Of Oil Seep Into The Gulf Of Mexico Each Year

ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2000) — Twice an Exxon Valdez spill worth of oil seeps into the Gulf of Mexico every year, according to a new study that will be presented January 27 at the Ocean Sciences Meeting in San Antonio, Texas.

But the oil isn't destroying habitats or wiping out ocean life. The ooze is a natural phenomena that's been going on for many thousands of years, according to Roger Mitchell, Vice President of Program Development at the Earth Satellite Corporation (EarthSat) in Rockville Md. "The wildlife have adapted and evolved and have no problem dealing with the oil," he said.

Oil that finds its way to the surface from natural seeps gets broken down by bacteria and ends up as carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas. So knowing the amount of fossil fuel that turns to carbon dioxide naturally is important for understanding how much humans may be changing the climate by burning oil and gas.

Using a technique they developed in the early 1990s to help explore for oil in the deep ocean, Earth Satellite Corporation scientists found that there are over 600 different areas where oil oozes from rocks underlying the Gulf of Mexico. The oil bubbles up from a cracks in ocean bottom sediments and spreads out with the wind to an to an area covering about 4 square miles.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000127082228.htm

And please don't take this to mean I dismiss the present spill as "harmless" or "natural". Not at all! I'm as up in arms about it as anyone, and will be back to explain why. But I still find this article hella interesting - for the remote sensing and waveform analysis (it's what I do) and much as for the the ramifications of what's going on in the Gulf.

The web page also has links into several studies about the fallout of the Exxon Valdez - oil remaining after 18 years (as published in 2007), oil in the subsurface.

I think the subsurface is going to be a huge new issue for the Gulf spill, one that won't be fully seen for a while. The oil slick on the surface is only part of the disaster, is my feeling.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, May 3, 2010 3:55 PM

DREAMTROVE


Mal,

good point. I would, of course, dismiss it. The fact is that the natural world is seeping in oil all of the time. Fortunately. If ti wasn't, we would all die. In fact, there's nothing directly harmfully to the environment that I've been able to find coming from the oil industry, and I say that as an ardent environmentalist with no sympathy for the oil biz.

But examining it in detail, there's really nothing here to dislike. It's not like the coal or even natural gas industry, let alone hydro. Oil just isn't an environmental disaster. The Co2 is probably healthy for the earth overall.


That said, there are indirect issues: Wars fought for oil, financial fallout from the energy industry, etc.

I fear that in seeking alternatives to oil right now, we're diving headlong into an environmental disaster with biofuels. We should study alternatives, and spend the time, because we have lots and lots of time. Oh, and someone made the point that the 50 mile limit was a major contributor to this disaster. But all of that taken into consideration, we actually don't have to decide this one right away, we have plenty of time. Moving too quickly could be harmful, cutting down forests for cheap ethanol, frakking, etc.

The best solution would be to reduce consumption, which would be pretty simple, it's just we live in a society that's way too stupid to do it. I'm using a laptop right now that uses 7 watts of power, replacing a 350 watt computer. The result is a machine about 10 times as fast and much more powerful, for 1/50th the power, while having very similar specs on an absolute scale. I remember in physics reading about the inefficiencies of the internal combustion engine and the fuel it burns, a little bit of pressure could work wonders. I don't know if anyone's followed the Tesla's adaptations to save power to extend battery life, but the electric car is quickly slicing consumption in a way that the gas guzzler never did. I think they started with 20kw, to 8, and now 5.6

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Monday, May 3, 2010 4:06 PM

BYTEMITE


Mal: Looked up Earth Sat, they don't appear to have any connection to the oil industry, so this may actually be a legitimate unbiased study.

On CO2: Well... It could be worse. And runaway greenhouse effect is unlikely. But we do know that whether you believe in CO2 global warming or deforestation global warming, there's negative consequences to human life from global warming, such as large storms.

Ah, Tesla, mad science at it's most applicable. I tip my hat to thee.

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Monday, May 3, 2010 4:08 PM

MAL4PREZ


Well, I won't go so far as dismissing the spill. It will harm many cute (and non-cute) creatures. According to that 2000 paper, the spill is putting 4 times the natural seepage of the entire gulf into one spot. Concentration is everything. Inject enough of the most benign chemical into a lab rat and you'll give it cancer. (Except maybe THC. That just gets you a mellow rat. )

The politics of oil are truly horrible, and I'm totally with you about efficiency. I heard some blowhard on TV talking about how much we'd save if folks could work in satellite offices near their homes rather than commute for hours a day. It was a good point. A guy I did a project with (an oil exploration project, actually) worked in Houston (for an oil exploration company) and spent 4 hours a day in his car. On the interstate. With AC blasting. Ridiculous.

Oh - back to efficiency - I've always heard rumors about "magical mechanical" devices invented by some schmoe somewhere that would double your fuel mileage. But then the oil companies bought these out and bury them. I have no actual proof of it, but wouldn't be surprised. Makes a good story, if nothing else.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, May 3, 2010 4:14 PM

MAL4PREZ


Thanks Bytemite. I looked a little into this company today and they seem independent, but I'm curious as to where they get their funding (a lot from the govt I think I saw?) and where their people come from.

DT: the thing about electrical cars: where does the electrical power come from? Coal and oil burning plants?

I'd like to see more solar. There was a good National Geo article about that last summer. The technology is really improving, though I think we're still a long way away from making it affordable to the average folk. I cannot wait until I can coat the roof of my house in panels.

BTW - I know a wealthy couple who were doing all kinds of nuttiness to install geothermal power because they thought solar panels were ugly. In the middle of fucking deep forest, Vermont! Who's gonna see?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, May 3, 2010 4:24 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Inject enough of the most benign chemical into a lab rat and you'll give it cancer.


oooh! This is something DT and I talk about a lot. :) I'll let him tell you, he's got these really cool ideas about the actual cause of cancer that could actually lead to a cure.

Here's a preview though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_mouse

Quote:

But then the oil companies bought these out and bury them.


Them or the auto-industry, though they're pretty close to one and the same. Oil companies are just now starting to look at alternative fuels because they see the end of the line. And oh look, automobile companies are finally switching over to /doing research on electric cars at the same time. Why, that's not at all suspicious.


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