REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

We love nature, but only in 3D movies of Avatar. Bees, OTOH...

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, May 14, 2010 19:51
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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Bee numbers plummet as billions of colonies die across the world
Quote:

The world faces a future with little meat and no cotton because of a catastrophic collapse in bee colonies, experts have warned. Many vital crops are dependent on pollination by honeybees, but latest figures show a third failed to survive the winter in the U.S.

More than three million colonies in America and billions of bees worldwide have died since 2006.

This is the third winter in which one-third of bees have died in the USA and elsewhere.
Quote:

Pesticides are believed to be a key cause of a crisis known as Colony Collapse Disorder (CDD), damaging bee health and making them more susceptible to disease. But scientists do not know for certain and are at a loss how to prevent the disaster. Other potential factors include bloodsucking parasites and infections.

Some experts believe bees are heading for extinction.

The number of managed honeybee colonies in the U.S. fell by 34 per cent last winter, according to a survey by the country’s Agricultural Research Service, and some commercial beekeepers have reported losses of more than 60 per cent over a year. In Britain, the latest report into the fate of the estimated 250,000 honeybee colonies is expected this month after losses of up to a third in the last two winters.

Bees are a critical part of the food chain because flowering plants depend on insects for pollination and the honeybee is the most effective. {Bees} pollinate 90 commercial crops worldwide, including most fruit and vegetables – from apples to carrots – alfalfa for cattle feed, nuts, oil-seed rape and cotton. A world without honeybees would mean a largely meatless diet of rice and cereals, no cotton for textiles, no orchards or wildflowers and decimation among wild birds and animals in the bee food chain.

Bees are worth £26 billion to the global economy, and £200 million in Britain.

'Bees contribute to global food security and their extinction would represent a terrible biological disaster,' said Bernard Vallat of the World Organisation for Animal Health.

U.S. scientists have found 121 different pesticides in samples of bees, wax and pollen, increasing fears that pesticides are a key problem. The wipe-out of so many colonies has been dubbed ‘Marie Celeste’ syndrome because many hives have been found empty, with no sign of dead bees. The British government’s National Bee Unit denies the existence of CDD over here, blaming the bloodsucking varroa mite and rainy summers that have stopped bees foraging for food.



www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1270698/Bees-face-extinctio
n-billions-colonies-die-worldwide.html


I have to add a caveat, though. Bee colonies are NOT dying off "worldwide". Managed bees colonies are thriving in Turkey, Argentina, and China. But given the importance of honeybees in the USA, Australia, and Britain you'd think that USDA and other scientists would be pushing hard to determine the cause of CCD. But if a high-volume pesticide is at fault that would be a real problem, as Monsanto, Dow, Bayer or whoever is fault, would push back hard.

This is akin to the loss of frogs worldwide.

People use the term "historic" far too often, but I think we're at a historic point in human history. I also think we're setting the stage for disaster, but too many people would rather do "business as usual". This goes for population growth, climate change, and banking/ economy as well.

For my part, I'm planting a bee-friendly backyard, as the bees in our neighborhood seem to be doing quite well. Most suburban landscapes are ecological barrens. By the time I'm done with my backyard, I hope to be able to have it certifiable as a wildlife habitat, heavily using such natives as pink-flowering currant, scrub oaks, pines etc. If I can find a way to post pix, I will bc it's coming out to be extraordinarily beautiful as well.

Certified wildlife habitat
www.nwf.org/gardenforwildlife/certify.cfm?campaignid=WH10A150

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:45 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Hey SignyM

I was in Australia last year and caught this report on how the Australian Bee was being flown out to the USA to help with pollination/research. They are doing something. Whether it's the appropriate thing and whether it'll suss out the route of the problem - who knows? But it is a concern generating serious action.

Wish I had more to tell you but I caught a fleeting glance of the report and as I say it was about a year ago.





Would you like to see some cartoons? http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


huh. Interesting.
Thanks for that!

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:12 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


No probs. Just wish I could remember which channel broadcasted it. As I'm sure there was to be a follow up story...

Would you like to see some cartoons? http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 2:00 AM

DREAMTROVE


Sig,

I read that the recent start up of bee commodity markets has created an unprecendented level of bee-swapping, which might be the culprit. The theory is that bees, like humans, trees, and many other life forms, carry group-specific bacteria, fungi and viruses to which the group has evolved an immunity or tolerance, but still toxic to the outside bee community. Such a pattern might even have evolutionary advantages favoring the dominants of certain hives, but if so, it's disastrous in the current situation. It's like bee-columbus.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 4:47 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
But if a high-volume pesticide is at fault that would be a real problem, as Monsanto, Dow, Bayer or whoever is fault, would push back hard.


That is unfortunately true, and doubtless a big part of the problem. Another part of the problem could well be crops and other plants that have been engineered not to breed on their own. The plants that have their breeding capabilities taken out of them might be offering less and sub-standard nutrition to honeybees. There's also infections and the introduction of more aggressive species of bees that take over from the more basic honeybee, but aren't as effective at pollination. So there are three or four major factors, two of which we have little control over. The remaining and likely larger factors, though... Well, as you said, must not disrupt the status quo

Quote:

oil-seed rape

O.o!

[/sig]

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 6:48 AM

DREAMTROVE


The pesticides aren't new and would kill slowly, this is way too sudden. Only other thing I can think of is hornets, but I don't have a reason to do so.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I like DT's theory...well, I don't LIKE it, but it makes sense to me. I know about the bee thing, and it's saddened me for quite some time. Most people have no concept of how important they are to US, so it doesn't get attention. Me, I do, and it worries me (when I think about it, which, in my own little life, I rarely do).

We egotistical humans really tend to forget how interwoven the fabric of nature is; if it doesn't affect us personally, right now, visibly, we don't think it's important. Sigh...strange little species, we are...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:24 AM

MINCINGBEAST


I love nature, so long as I don't have to experience it. Like people---lovely in theory, invariably vile in practice.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:50 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The pesticides aren't new


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid
Maybe not new, but newer. Been around since around 1990, with widening usage, and coincides with the start of the colony collapses. Hornets aren't new.

[/sig]

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:57 AM

DREAMTROVE


The culprit needs to show a usage pattern geographically similar to the bee collapse. Your target has the right timeline, could be, if you have map data...

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Lord, there goes Johnny Appleseed
He might pass by in the hour of need
There's a lot of souls
Ain't drinking from no well; they're locked in a factory

Hey - look there goes
Hey - look there goes
If you're after getting the honey - hey
Then you don't go killing all the bees...




Just because I was listening to Joe Strummer & The Mescaleroes when I read this post...

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:20 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Flying off

Diana Cox-Foster, professor of entomology at Pennsylvania State University College of Agricultural Sciences, which received $150,000 from Häagen-Dazs, believes researchers have identified a major cause of CCD.

Her team has recently given the mite-transmitted Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus (IAPV) to healthy bee colonies and has seen rapid die-off??. As it is winter those tests took place in greenhouses so the researchers are waiting for the weather to improve to verify the results with bees in their normal environments.

The mysterious and unique aspect of CCD is that the bees are not being found dead near their colonies. They are flying off; just abandoning their life's work, leaving behind the queen and a few younger bees.

Professor Cox-Foster believes that there are other factors together with IAPV are the cause of CCD, such as other viruses, the use of chemicals near colonies and whether the bees are receiving enough nutrition.

To beekeepers pesticides are definitely part of the problem, says Troy Fore, executive director of the American Beekeeping Federation. "A lot of beekeepers blame neonicotinoid insecticides. These are safer for humans and other mammals but they affect the neurological systems of bees. They don't kill the bees outright but they cause to act in ways different to the norm."

The beekeepers believe these insecticides, which in fact have been partially banned in France, weaken the immune system of the bees thereby allowing viruses such as IAPV to strike.

Beekeepers that have their hives in the forest or grasslands and not near cultivated crops are doing well, so there is anecdotal evidence that the pesticides and insecticides are part of the problem, said Fore.

Australia on the attack

But not everyone agrees that IAPV is a cause of CCD. Australian government scientists miffed that the Penn State team suggested in a paper published in Science that IAPV arrived in the US in imports of live bees from Australia pointed out in a follow-up letter that there were several CCD colonies free of IAPV and the "shivering phenotype", and the death of bees close to the hive associated with IAPV in Israel.

The assertion that IAPV came from Australian bees was also refuted by the US Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service, which said that IAPV was found in the country back in 2002, two years before the importation of Australian bees was instituted to replenish colonies.

The Australians, which see their $5m a year live bee exporting industry endangered by such allegations, have demanded that Penn State withdraw its conclusions. They also point out that neither CCD nor large-scale, unexplained mortality events have occurred in the Australian bee industry.

The first description of IAPV came from Israel in 2002 and since then there have been die-outs of bees across the globe, some definitely attributable to the virus.

British beekeepers too are worried that CCD may come to these shores and they have called on the government to back a five-year, £8m research programme designed to save the insect.

Back in America all eyes are nowadays on California's almond trees, which represent a $2.5bn industry. The pink and white blossoms have started to appear and the concern is whether there are the tens of thousands bees needed to pollinate the crop.

"The almonds are in bloom right now in California and we are hearing there are some significant die-offs. It's worrisome," said professor Cox-Foster.



Here's another thought. We're oddly no seeing die off of the bees, as it says, excepting the uncared for larva. We're seeing worker bees abandon their job role.

The difference between a worker bee (female) and a queen bee is a compound found in the royal jelly. Depending on what's switched on, a bee becomes either a queen or sterile, which tells me there's some sort of bee sex hormone involved.

...Chemical that imitates queen bee sex hormone involved in demethylizing the appropriate section of DNA, but doesn't cause the worker bee to develop reproductive ability, as ovaries weren't fully developed during the larval metamorphosis stage?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:29 PM

BYTEMITE


I note, however, that the biology and instinct pathways of insects are very simple, and it is known that it's possible for parasites to completely change the behavioural patterns of insects.

What I'm wondering about is what the study with the particular parasite above is reporting. Are they reporting a die-off of the larva because the workers leave, or a die-off in general?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:51 PM

DREAMTROVE


I thought there were die offs in farms

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:58 PM

BYTEMITE


Bee keepers do see a lot of it, if that's what you mean.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:49 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
if you have map data...


Do you have map data on hornets? My theories at least have timelines, which is something. By your own admission, you have no reason to suppose it's hornets, it's just what you think it must be despite the total lack of any evidence, but you demand more data from me? Really?
Fine.
Here.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8436
http://www.infowars.com/death-of-the-bees-gmo-crops-and-the-decline-of
-bee-colonies-in-north-america
/
http://www.naturalnews.com/025287_bees_honey_crops.html
http://www.youris.com/Environment/Bees/Bees_restored_to_health_in_Ital
y_after_this_springs_neonicotinoidfree_maize_sowing.kl

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/requiemForTheHoneybee.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder#Pesticides
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_4557.cfm





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Thursday, May 6, 2010 3:25 AM

DREAMTROVE


Phoenix,

Hornets was not my theory. It was a "we never know" comment. It's like the population of the Earth had a massive die off in the 1300s, and no theory will say "oh, some humans did this" unless John is going to say that it was the jews spreading the plague.

I'm not interested in being right, only in finding out what happened.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 5:51 AM

BYTEMITE


Same, which is why I offered my hormone idea. I have no idea if it's true or not, and I'd have no idea what chemical we could narrow it down to that might even cause such an effect.

I was just trying to explain why we might see worker bees fly away when the pesticides described are supposed to paralyze (as I understand it).

But it's possible that the flying away is a side effect of the pesticide, or even that there's chemicals associated with the pesticide or breakdown products that cause this.

Or, like in the article I put up above, it could be a combination of a lot of factors. Pesticides causing weakened immune systems, pesticides in general, parasites, bee swapping which causes spread, inbreeding of commercial bees destroying some of the variability in the population that might protect against pathogens/ resist chemicals.

Maybe the worker bees fly away because they've gotten bee drunk and chemicals have made it so they can't home in on the hive anymore. I know ants use chemical trails, and bees can use an elaborate dance to tell other bees were to go, but what directs them HOME?

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 11:38 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
worker bees fly away when the pesticides described are supposed to paralyze (as I understand it).


They're nerve toxins. Damage to the nervous system may paralyze, but a lesser effect is probable loss of function, i.e. flying off aimlessly or getting lost on the way back to the hive. Smaller insects might be paralyzed rather quickly, but bees seem to degenerate, then die.
I think the hormone idea could be beneficial, if only for making more queens capable of breeding healthy hives of bees. I don't think lack of this hormone is causing the problem, but isolating the hormone might be a viable solution for repopulation.

[/sig]

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 11:49 AM

DREAMTROVE


Or it's bee politics. Queen Bee Sarah Palin

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 12:03 PM

BYTEMITE


It's a possible idea, though I'm not sure, the problem remains that bees are bringing something back to the hive and infecting the hive. And the queen can't feed herself, so she has to be able to produce workers.

Hmm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laying_worker_bee

Although, they can only lay unfertilized eggs, which develop into drones. The colony dies because no workers are produced.


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Thursday, May 6, 2010 12:39 PM

TRAVELER


I saw a program on PBS about this last year. It is called Colony Collapse Disorder. A lot of people are looking into this. The problem is the bees don't return to the hive. If a bee realises it is sick it will instinctively know to avoid the hive to protect it from the illness. So the researchers have very few bees to work with in determining the cause. This has occurred several times. The first reported incident was in 1869. So this could be a nature occurrence.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 1:06 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

If a bee realises it is sick it will instinctively know to avoid the hive to protect it from the illness.


That's a good explanation also.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 3:27 PM

DREAMTROVE


Thanks Byte, I missed that from Travelers post (I can't believe those who lurk actually read the stuff we type ;) you guys must read fast.

Oh, and that brings up an editing point.

People, I know I always annoy people with my editing suggestions, but I've seen everyone not doing this, so here it is, undirected...

Put your salient point at the beginning of the post.

That was it.

Traveller,

Thanks, interesting point. Anything that causes any disease or plague would cause CCD, even if it didn't kill everyone. Humans would not do this, but that bees would makes them the more evolved, more successful species.

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Thursday, May 6, 2010 3:33 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Anything that causes any disease or plague would cause CCD, even if it didn't kill everyone. Humans would not do this, but that bees would makes them the more evolved, more successful species.

Or, as AU might say, bees are socialist & they get what they deserve.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Friday, May 14, 2010 7:51 PM

RIVERDANCER

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