Stand with Arizona by AURaptor

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
How very libertarian of you.

I have always maintainted on this board that libertarian values must be tempered with some regulations.

Examples: On the subject of economic liberty, some regulations are needed to prevent unfettered abuse of markets (look to Enron for an example). I'm sure you'd agree.

On the subject of personal liberty, borders need to be monitored and regulated to prevent abuses of human rights (look to reciently murdered ranchers by illegal border crossers). On this I'm certain you do not agree.

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Friday, May 14, 2010 7:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, sounds like you're all for boycotting Arizona. Thanks for your support!

BTW, I'm for "Buy"cotting AZ. Not that I'm going to make a special trip there to spend my money, but there are now some lists appearing on boycott websites that offer decient info on items to purchase. I also found it amusing how Arizona Tea and Arizona Jeans both issued press releases indicating that they are in NY and MI respectively.

So Kwik, are you going to boycott Indiana when we pass similar measures? What about TX and WY who are also making moves that direction? You going to end up boycotting 20 of 50 states before this is all over?

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Friday, May 14, 2010 7:36 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
How very libertarian of you.

I have always maintainted on this board that libertarian values must be tempered with some regulations.

Examples: On the subject of economic liberty, some regulations are needed to prevent unfettered abuse of markets (look to Enron for an example). I'm sure you'd agree.

On the subject of personal liberty, borders need to be monitored and regulated to prevent abuses of human rights (look to reciently murdered ranchers by illegal border crossers). On this I'm certain you do not agree.

Thank you for clarifying my positions for me. Without you, I'd have no idea what I was for or against. You have such certainty, but you're certainly wrong.

Thing is, SB 1070 isn't about monitoring borders so much as it's about hassling people and demanding to see their papers, please. Which I notice you're fully in favor of, as long as it's not white people being asked for their papers.

You're all for "human rights", but it seems in your libertarian world, some humans have decidedly more rights than others.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 14, 2010 7:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, sounds like you're all for boycotting Arizona. Thanks for your support!

BTW, I'm for "Buy"cotting AZ. Not that I'm going to make a special trip there to spend my money, but there are now some lists appearing on boycott websites that offer decient info on items to purchase. I also found it amusing how Arizona Tea and Arizona Jeans both issued press releases indicating that they are in NY and MI respectively.

I found it amusing that they want to distance themselves as much as possible from a state with such racist policies and views. I guess they know that economic pressures brought to bear on the state of Arizona are likely to have blowback on thier brands, and want to get out ahead of the issue.

Quote:
So Kwik, are you going to boycott Indiana when we pass similar measures? What about TX and WY who are also making moves that direction? You going to end up boycotting 20 of 50 states before this is all over?

I already boycott Indiana. I've never bought a Jim Nabors album or a Winnebago, and Hoosier racing tires, while grippy, have too short a track life for my tastes. I prefer Kumho or Goodyear race tires for their lower price and longer life, as well as their more progressive breakaway characteristics on the edge of adhesion.

And yes, I'll be boycotting any state that stands with Arizona or follows suit. Are you going to boycott every state that DOESN'T go along with Arizona?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 14, 2010 7:48 AM

By the way, the GOP announced that they AREN'T going to be holding their 2012 convention in Arizona. At last count, the city of Phoenix has already lost over $90,000,000 in contracts and commitments, according to the mayor of the city.

Oh, and Austin (my home) announced yesterday that they'd passed a resolution to boycott Arizona in the wake of this fiasco.

So let's all vote with our wallets, and see how it all shakes out. I'll bet we can get it resolved before any court cases are even decided! My money is on Arizona backing down, especially once the federal government decides to call their bluff; if they want to make border control and immigration a states' rights issue, I'm sure the fed would be happy to pull all its federal agents, support, and funding from the state, and let them pick up the tab for watching their own borders.

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Friday, May 14, 2010 8:12 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Jen, you’re entitled to your beliefs, but I disagree wholeheartedly with them

Quote:
believe that people of Hispanic descent who are legal citizens have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Runaway imaginations are turning blowing this out of proportion. Although the law was only recently signed, there are no reports of masses of hispanics being rounded up and put in death camps.

The actual fact is that people of Hispanic descent who are legal citizens have a LOT to worry about; if they can’t prove their citizenship immediately upon questioning, they will be JAILED and, once it is proven, fined and possibly jailed again for not carrying the proof with them. That is a FACT, it HAS HAPPENED, you haven’t bothered to read the facts I posted if you can deny that. Nobody has said a damned thing about death camps that I have read, so that’s irrelevant.

Strawman, I HAVE read the law, I have posted portions of it and what it allows and how what it allows can be interpreted. I have no “insane hysteria”, I merely recognize that this law is wrong, unconstitutional and harms what our country is based on, not to mention putting actual citizens in danger. Indiana has my sympathy but has just lost any respect I might have for it.

We have tens of thousands of immigrants in California, they don’t suck up to ANY teat (I’ve also posted about the question regarding whether illegal immigrants cost more in services than they contribute in entitlement taxes they will never benefit from). You won’t see us passing any such law; we may be Crazy Californians, but we understand reality, and the reality is that this is 100% wrong; we also appear to have more common sense and more understanding of our country.

Jen,

Quote:
Hysteria is a good description. Both the knee jerk left and the card carrying Glen Birch Society right trot out the Nazi analogy as suits them.

Health reform was going to turn America into a Socialist (or Facist) state depending on who you talk to, and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh.

That is so “hysterically” funny it doesn’t need response; however, your beliefs about health reform are both knee jerk and hysteria if you think it will turn us fascist or socialist!

Bluesun: I’ve already put up facts and figures showing the crime rate has gone DOWN in Arizona, despite the “massive influx” of illegal immigrants. There are crimes committed every day in every state; pointing to one crime is fallacious. I happen to agree that “borders need to be monitored and regulated”, but this way of doing so IS an abuse of human rights, citizens’ and illegals’ both.

I, too, will be boycotting any state that passes a racist, anti-human-rights law such as this. And I’ve already begun voting my conscience by boycotting Arizona, not to mention just having bought a gallon jug of Arizona Tea. This law cannot stand, or here’s some equivalent hysteria for you: If it stands, we are on our way to a NAZI state!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 14, 2010 8:21 AM

Quote:
...and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh

So I have to ask: In your world, in your America, are there such things as "human rights" and "civil rights" that DON'T apply only to U.S. citizens, that are supposed to be universal for ALL people? Or are those the sole province of the "real" Americans, and non-Americans have no rights at all?

I could've sworn that there was some kind of document written and signed that mentioned something about "unalienable" rights, and kind of hinted that such rights didn't begin and end at the American border.

Maybe that was a dream...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 14, 2010 8:28 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No, Mike: Arizona is the nightmare!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 14, 2010 11:29 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Jen,
Quote:
Hysteria is a good description. Both the knee jerk left and the card carrying Glen Birch Society right trot out the Nazi analogy as suits them.

Health reform was going to turn America into a Socialist (or Facist) state depending on who you talk to, and now a law to expel those who are in a sovereign state illegally will lead to mass violation of (non citizen's) civil rights. Sheesh.
That is so “hysterically” funny it doesn’t need response; however, your beliefs about health reform are both knee jerk and hysteria if you think it will turn us fascist or socialist!

I wish you would read that again Niki in the context that it was meant. Momcarp was saying how both sides say every issue will "Extreme Blank" this country, just as they did with health care (it'll turn us socialist or fascist), and now they are reacting in extremes to this law.

So you guys are going to boycott AZ even though as Jongs mentioned, and I agree, it'll probably hurt the low wage and illegals? Seriously, when money gets tight who do you think feels it first?

"Sorry you lost you job Jose, but I got your human rights covered. Don't know about you but I'll certainly sleep better."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, May 14, 2010 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Are you going to boycott every state that DOESN'T go along with Arizona?

Such a foolish question. I'd quite expect it from you.

But I'll make this deal with you Kwik. I'll consider Buycotting any state, city, company, or enterprise you boycott. Beyond that I'll allow the free market to work for itself.

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Friday, May 14, 2010 12:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You have such certainty, but you're certainly wrong.

Kwicko: king of the glittering generality.

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Friday, May 14, 2010 12:49 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"So you guys are going to boycott AZ even though as Jongs mentioned, and I agree, it'll probably hurt the low wage and illegals? Seriously, when money gets tight who do you think feels it first?"

Hello,

I agree here. This is why the embargo on Cuba should be lifted. It's not hurting Castro.

If money gets tight in Arizona it will only heighten the hysteria against illegals.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Friday, May 14, 2010 1:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Are you going to boycott every state that DOESN'T go along with Arizona?
Such a foolish question. I'd quite expect it from you.

Let me guess: YOUR question, though essentially identical, was NOT foolish?

Quote:
But I'll make this deal with you Kwik. I'll consider Buycotting any state, city, company, or enterprise you boycott. Beyond that I'll allow the free market to work for itself.

In a free market, am I free to NOT shop where I *DON'T* want to? I thought you didn't like mandates; sounds like you're trying to say that I have to buy Arizonan, even if I don't want to. You are free to buy Arizona, or not, and I should be free to NOT buy from them. You seem to view "free markets" in that uniquely "libertarian" way, in that you feel you should be free to buy from anyone, but I shouldn't be free to NOT buy from those I disagree with.

Hey, maybe you can engineer a big bailout for Arizona when things get really bad because of the boycotts!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 14, 2010 1:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You have such certainty, but you're certainly wrong.
Kwicko: king of the glittering generality.

Isn't that title a glittering generality in itself?

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Friday, May 14, 2010 1:09 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ah, my apologies. I read "Glen Birch Society" and wondered ?? Does she mean JOHN Birch?" ...then skipped right over the "right". Mea culpa, Jen.

As far as boycotting, yes, I will. Just as boycotting non-dolphin-safe tuna cost me for years, as I like tuna. Because I can't help it if the Latinos suffer, so will their employers, for one thing. Because if my boycott helps at all, it will help the Latinos. Because I refuse to support something I find so reprehensible.

As said, free market, my decision. The boycott of those bringing in tons more money than I ever could is already hurting them...my little bit follows my conscience.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, May 14, 2010 1:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

So you guys are going to boycott AZ even though as Jongs mentioned, and I agree, it'll probably hurt the low wage and illegals? Seriously, when money gets tight who do you think feels it first?

That's why I thanked Jongsie for his support of the boycotts. He claimed that boycotting Arizona would force illegals to leave Arizona. From what he's written, I take it that's what he WANTS to happen. So shouldn't y'all be GLAD we're boycotting Arizona, if you want the illegals gone from there? After all, if it hurts them, that makes you smile, right?

As for who feels it first, I'd wager that the lower-wage hourly LEGAL employees would be let go, so the companies that are hemorrhaging money can replace them with lower-paid illegals who they also won't be paying any taxes on.

If, as Reagan lovers like to believe, money spent at the top goes to the bottom, then NOT spending money on Arizona businesses should impact the business owners first, hurting their bottom line. My guess is they'll take it out on the legal workers before they will the illegal ones, because that saves them more money, and historically the risks and fines are so low that it's worth the risk to them.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 14, 2010 1:10 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"You seem to view "free markets" in that uniquely "libertarian" way, in that you feel you should be free to buy from anyone, but I shouldn't be free to NOT buy from those I disagree with."

Hello Mike,

Please confine your slings and arrows to their intended targets.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Friday, May 14, 2010 3:33 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Mike,

Please confine your slings and arrows to their intended targets.

I'm suddenly struck by the urge to start singing Krokus's Ballroom Blitz!.

You'd have to have seen the video to get the joke though.

-F

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Let me guess: YOUR question, though essentially identical, was NOT foolish?

Um..no. Nope. Not foolish. My question, which by-the-by you have not yet answered, was to inquire if you intend to boycott other states when they pass similar measures. You have already stated you will boycott one state: AZ. This makes my question NOT foolish.

Your question however was foolish because it attempted to hijack my interrogative with a new one: who I won't boycott. I can't see why it matters what I personally will-or-won't do since I asked you first, but I'll answer anyway. I'm not boycotting anybody. I will however choose, like many other like-minded people to buycott where I choose. And there are plenty of resources to choose from to do so, such as: http://www.buycottarizona.com/

So will you answer? Will you boycott other states when they pass similar measures? You going to wrap yourself up in a boycott fever and maintain it?

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:31 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I can only answer for me: Yes, I will. Any and every one of them until either this law is taken down or (gawd forbid) it is made nationwide. I just can't believe that will happen; little as my faith in the American people is, it extends at least that far.

I also agree that his question is not pertinent to what you asked.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:33 AM

Here's something to scoff at: The boycotters have a comprehensive list of everyone in AZ including: Todd McFarlane Productions Inc.

Yep. No more Spawn comics. So you better stop reading your spawn comics if you hate Az! *sigh* I never liked Spawn anyway.

I note that Discount Tire is on the list and I've been needing new tires for 4 months now, so forget Wal-mart or Indy Tire (local chain). I guess I'm off to Discount Tire!

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 10:16 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Bear in mind, this is the state that gave us Barry Goldwater, and had the NFL pull the Superbowl from them because they wouldn't recognize Martin Luther King Day.

For those of you who want to join me, here's a list of some of those to boycott:

- Arizona Diamondbacks, Location: Phoenix, Arizona

- Best Western International, Inc., Headquarters: Phoenix, Arizona

- Cold Stone Creamery. Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- Grand Canyon

- P. F. Chang’s China Bistro. Headquarters: Phoenix, Arizona

- PetSmart. Headquarters: Phoenix, Arizona

- Sky Mall, Headquarters: Phoenix, Arizona

- U-Haul. Headquarters: Phoenix, Arizona

- US Airways. Headquarters: Tempe, Arizona

- Alcor Life Extension Foundation (Cryonics, the science of freezing gullible dead people). Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- ClubJenna, Inc. (branded internet porn). Headquarters: Glendale, Arizona

- Go Daddy (Sleezy domain name registry). Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- TASER International, Inc. Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- Discount Tire Company (Americas largest tire and wheel retailer). Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- BeachWare (computer games). Headquarters: Tuscon, Arizona

- Channel Master (TV accessories). Headquarters: Gilbert, Arizona

- Circle K (convenience store chain) Headquarters: Tempe, Arizona

- Dial Corporation (formerly Greyhound Dial Corporation--Dial soap and anti-perspirant deodorant; AromaSense; Armour Star canned
meats; Borateem; Boraxo; Coast soap; Combat insect control; Dry Idea deodorant; Fels-Naptha soap; Pure and Natural beauty products; Purex laundry detergent; Renuzit air freshener; Right Guard deodorant; Twenty Mule Team Borax). Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (guitars, basses, amplifiers, etc.). Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- Flying Buffalo, Inc. (game company: board games, card games; Tunnels and Trolls, Nuclear War card game, Death Dice, others). Headquarters: Scottsdale, Arizona

- Ramada Worldwide hotel chain. Headquarters: Phoenix, Arizona

- Shamrock Farms (dairy products: various “Mmmmilk” products; Rockin’ Refuel; “Milk
Essentials” for Kids; various frozen treats) Headquarters: Phoenix

About the only ones I can boycott are PetSmart, Dial and Cold Stone Creamery, but if anyone knows others, please share.

Just a few more things:

Quote:
Law enforcement groups and agents in Arizona and across the country have opposed the legislation. The Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police this week issued a statement, noting in part, “The provisions of the bill . . . will negatively affect the ability of law enforcement agencies across the state to fulfill their many responsibilities in a timely manner. ” Individual Chiefs of Police across the country, including in Colorado Springs, Raleigh, San Francisco and Sacramento, have also come out in opposition to the bill.

According to an article in Thursday’s New York Times, approximately 85 percent of the calls going in to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer’s office are being recorded in OPPOSITION to the legislation.

Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony, who heads the nation’s largest Roman Catholic archdiocese with 4.3 million members, spoke for many people of faith when he lambasted the bill on his blog, stating, “The Arizona legislature just passed the country’s most retrogressive, mean-spirited, and useless anti-immigrant law. The tragedy of the law is its totally false reasoning: that immigrants come to our country to rob, plunder, and consume public resources. That is not only false, the premise is nonsense.”

Sojourners CEO Jim Wallis has also spoken out against the bill, writing in Huffington Post, “[E]nforcement of this law would force us to violate our Christian conscience, which we simply will not do. It makes it illegal to love your neighbor in Arizona.”

Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Groups, including the ACLU, the NAACP and the Anti-Defamation League oppose it. “The passage of SB 1070 is a catastrophe in the making that would institutionalize racial profiling in a misguided attempt to fix our broken immigration system,” said Wade Henderson, President and CEO of The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights.

Leaders of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, including Reps. Gutierrez and Grijalva, have asked President Obama to block the Arizona legislation if it passes. Grijalva added, “When you institutionalize a law like this one, you are targeting and discriminating at a wholesale level against a group of people.”

Arizona’s tourism officials are growing increasingly concerned at the prospect of huge hotel and convention dollar losses because of fallout from the state’s new immigration law.
In Phoenix alone, David Krietor, a deputy city manager who is tracking the issue, said this week the city faces lost business worth about $90 million over the next five years.

Similar concerns are being expressed across the state. “We have an image and public relations problem of what might be unprecedented proportions,” Krietor said.

Debbie Johnson, president of the Arizona Hotel and Lodging Association, said a boycott might be disastrous for the state’s more than 200,000 hospitality-industry workers. “We really don’t need another hit,” she added.

As of April 30, the lodging association had identified 19 conventions cancelled, worth an estimated 15,000 room nights, or $6 million.

Highland Park High School in Chicago’s suburbs is pulling its champion girls basketball team from a tournament in Arizona, because of the law. Arizona’s tourism board estimates it is losing $90 million to boycotts already. The state has become the butt of jokes.

More than two dozen North Texas residents are headed for Arizona to join protests against that state’s new immigration law.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Let me guess: YOUR question, though essentially identical, was NOT foolish?

Um..no. Nope. Not foolish. My question, which by-the-by you have not yet answered, was to inquire if you intend to boycott other states when they pass similar measures. You have already stated you will boycott one state: AZ. This makes my question NOT foolish.

If "not foolish", then certainly dishonest, since I *DID* answer your question, quite explicitly, and you even quoted my answer when you responded to it. So were you not paying attention then, or are you being needlessly obtuse now, or both?

For the record - AGAIN - here ya go, quoted from my very own answer to your question, which by-the-by I have indeed answered, TWICE now:

Quote:

I already boycott Indiana. I've never bought a Jim Nabors album or a Winnebago, and Hoosier racing tires, while grippy, have too short a track life for my tastes. I prefer Kumho or Goodyear race tires for their lower price and longer life, as well as their more progressive breakaway characteristics on the edge of adhesion.

And yes, I'll be boycotting any state that stands with Arizona or follows suit. Are you going to boycott every state that DOESN'T go along with Arizona?

I even underlined the most explicit part of the answer so maybe you can read it this time. Dong ma?

Quote:
Your question however was foolish because it attempted to hijack my interrogative with a new one: who I won't boycott. I can't see why it matters what I personally will-or-won't do since I asked you first, but I'll answer anyway. I'm not boycotting anybody. I will however choose, like many other like-minded people to buycott where I choose. And there are plenty of resources to choose from to do so, such as: http://www.buycottarizona.com/

So will you answer? Will you boycott other states when they pass similar measures? You going to wrap yourself up in a boycott fever and maintain it?

And how is it foolish to worry about who you will or won't boycott, but not foolish at all for you to worry about who *I* will or won't boycott? Are you now the king of the glittering double standard?

Again, why do you consider MY question to you foolish, especially given that I posed it to you AFTER I answered your question?

Further, you claim I tried to hijack your interrogative. How? By answering you, then asking you a question back? In your world, are you the only one allowed to ask questions? (If so, I'm breaking all kinds of rules in your world, aren't I?

)

Now, I don't know what a "boycott fever" is, and I don't intend to wrap myself up in any kind of fever, because that sounds potentially dangerous to one's health, but I intend to boycott Arizona and encourage others to join the boycotts, because in a free market, we should be able to choose with whom we DON'T do business, as well as with whom we DO give our patronage. Wouldn't you agree?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 3:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"You seem to view "free markets" in that uniquely "libertarian" way, in that you feel you should be free to buy from anyone, but I shouldn't be free to NOT buy from those I disagree with."

Hello Mike,

Please confine your slings and arrows to their intended targets.

Anthony,

Sorry if you got hit with unintended friendly fire. I was aiming the "libertarian" snark directly at BSCM, because he claims libertarianism, yet seems to act just like a neocon more often than not. What I should have to him was "in YOUR uniquely 'libertarian' way", so that it would have been clear that I wasn't questioning libertarian viewpoints, just HIS "libertarian" views.

Sorry for the mixup. Mea Culpa, my bad, and all that.

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Saturday, May 15, 2010 8:12 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Well, I'm not a very good libertarian myself. Willing as I was to tolerate Public Option health care. And seeing as how I voted Democrat in the last election.

I need to do something Small Government soon or they'll take my voting card.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Sunday, May 16, 2010 6:52 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

So you guys are going to boycott AZ even though as Jongs mentioned, and I agree, it'll probably hurt the low wage and illegals? Seriously, when money gets tight who do you think feels it first?

As for who feels it first, I'd wager that the lower-wage hourly LEGAL employees would be let go, so the companies that are hemorrhaging money can replace them with lower-paid illegals who they also won't be paying any taxes on.

Thanks for clarifying that by boycotting AZ you're completely aware that your actions will likely cost people their jobs. All while you risk absolutely nothing. Ironically, some of these people may be legal immigrants who agree with your position. Nice one!

I'm sorry to disappoint you: I don't hate illegals. Apart from Rush I can't think of anyone I actually might hate. What's the point of hating?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:08 AM