North Korea v. South Korea by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

North Korea v. South Korea

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, January 13, 2024 14:41
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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 7:54 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, boy, here we go again. Anyone up for a war with North Koriea?

Quote:
North Korea announced Tuesday a freeze in relations with South Korea and threatened military retaliation in response to alleged intrusions into its waters by the South Korean navy.

North Korea's Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea said it would "abrogate the agreement on non-aggression" amid heightened tensions on the divided peninsula over the sinking of a South Korean warship earlier this year.

An official South Korean report accused the communist North of firing a torpedo at the ship, killing 46 sailors.

A North Korean military official accused the South of intruding into North Korean waters in the Yellow Sea from May 14 to May 24, the Yonhap news agency reported.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton urged North Korea on Monday to reveal what it knows about the "act of aggression" that sank the South Korean warship.

She also said that the United States' "support for South Korea's defense is unequivocal" and that North Korea should "stop its belligerence and threatening behavior."

South Korea has said an investigation concluded that the North fired a torpedo that sank the South Korean military ship in March. The United States supports that finding, Clinton said while in China.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak announced Monday that his country was suspending trade with North Korea, closing its waters to the North's ships and adopting a newly aggressive military posture toward its neighbor.

U.S. President Barack Obama has directed military commanders to work with South Korean troops "to ensure readiness and to deter future aggression" from North Korea.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/05/25/n.korea.threats/index.html
?hpt=Sbin

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 7:57 AM

PENGUIN

Do they have any oil???

King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I dunno, but by gawd, if they DO, we oughta invade right away! Just think of all the oil we're losing to the Gulf? Which, amusingly, was one politician's excuse for why we should be drilling MORE...NOW!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 10:28 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin:
Do they have any oil???

South Korea is a fine ally and makes some pretty nice cars. I wish them well. North Korea makes noise and has a funny looking leader. I hope we kick their ass all the way back to China then we can finally bring our troops home.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin:
Do they have any oil???

South Korea is a fine ally and makes some pretty nice cars. I wish them well. North Korea makes noise and has a funny looking leader. I hope we kick their ass all the way back to China then we can finally bring our troops home.

You really are retarded, aren't you?

Remember all that bluster about how Iraq was going to be over in a matter of weeks, and for only a couple billion bucks?

How'd that work out for ya? Well, not YOU, personally, because you're a coward and would NEVER volunteer to serve in any of the wars you cheerlead.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:43 PM

KIRKULES

If I remember correctly that police action never really officially ended, there was just a secession of hostilities. I don't know how may ships the South will allow the North to sink before hostilities resume, but if they do respond unfortunately our troops are already on the front line. I doubt Obama will respond until the North draws first blood. Then after the North nukes 30 thousand of our troops he'll send a high level diplomat to negotiate our surrender. After they send the diplomats head back on a plate, he'll piss himself and claim he was born in Kenya.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:53 PM

KWICKO

Sounds like you're projecting your own chickenshit attitudes onto your President, Kirk.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:01 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think our nation can ill afford another war at this time. I expect that if war breaks out, we will use our superior technology to cripple the North Korean ability to wage war effectively. Then the South Koreans will be expected to perform the majority of the actual soldiering.

If a land war commences, it will be interminable. I pray we don't get involved in slogging it out on the ground. When I say we can ill afford another war, I mean that quite literally. We simply can't pay for it.

Hopefully, war will simply not happen. It's not in the North's best interests to wage one. They do not sit in the superior position.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:14 PM

KWICKO

Anthony, you say North Korea is not in the superior position. I take a slightly different tack; they have the least to lose. How do you destroy their infrastructure if it doesn't much exist in the first place? How will you destroy their computer networks if they don't have such things? (Hint: They definitely DO know how to destroy or severely cripple OUR infrastructure and our digital grid, as well as our power grid and more).

While not in a militarily superior position, they have options and weapons that are simply unavailable to us, because they DON'T have the top-heavy multi-trillion-dollar military might that we have. They put their efforts and research into hurting us where we're weak, much like Al Qaeda did to such devastating effect on 9/11/2001.

What if I could fly planes into buildings without even having to be on board those planes? Who needs a box cutter when you have a good high-speed connection and the hacks into the air traffic control system for the entire U.S. airspace?

Just something to consider.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:16 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

If it comes to war, without China's intervention (I think it's unlikely unlike last time ) I would be surprised not to see a quick and decisive victory and a massive improvement of the status quo.

The question is the cost, and more specifically what the capability of North Korea's nuclear arsenal turns out to be. There's a small but unignorable chance it could be devastating. This decision is one for South Korea I feel, as they have the most to lose and gain.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:22 PM

CATPIRATE

We are at war with North Korea. We have a truce. The DMZ is an active war zone. So many troops have been killed in that area over the past 60 years. You just don't hear about it like the cold war was. Up by the border of China the Commie Koreans are munching down on each other. So they need a war to thin the herd and quit rebellion. The Japs will go on alert because North Korea would throw some silk worms to stir up hate again. RED CHINA would make a move on Taiwan for security reasons. Now the price of rice the number one staple in the world hits the roof. It is all over folks. Iran makes an early unplanned move on the Israelites. Man it is over now. The US would not be able to handle it. The good thing is that if we all pray St Reagan, St Thatcher, and the holy father John Paul II will come down to earth to bring Peace.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:32 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Mike,

None of the things North Korea can do to the U.S. can do more than cause pain. Momentary pain. As long as we don't invade with ground forces, their ability to defeat the United States is nil. Within 7 days of the breakout of hostilities, North Korea will have no missile sites, no air force, no navy, no radar, no electricity, and no communication. If they manage to cause disruption to our communication or air travel- if they knock out a satellite or crash a dozen planes- Then we will make a lot of noise. We will wail and complain and be shocked and amazed. And we will be fully operational again within a month. It will be a shot heard round the world. The first true battle of the 21st century, using 21st century methods. The first and last assault they'll make against us. Then they're finished.

The only way they can truly hurt us is if we are foolish enough to occupy territory.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:41 PM

KWICKO

Y'know, I spent some time warning about the dangers of invading Iraq, and actually understood WHY Bush's daddy didn't "finish the job" way back when, and I was told that I was a worry-wart, that I was trying to build the Iraqi army into a massive army of ten-foot armored giants, and I insisted that I wasn't doing any such thing. I was just pointing out that no hostilities ever go the way you think they will, and they're never as easy as you hope, or as the media leads you to believe they'll be.

We already occupy territory. Our own. We imagine we're safe. We pretend we'll fight this war like the first Korean War. We haven't learned, and we haven't prepared, and we haven't moved on. If it comes to hostilities, there's more than bombs and missiles involved. Much more. And you're not even looking in the right places for the enemy.

Good luck with that.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:53 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"We pretend we'll fight this war like the first Korean War."

Hello,

I'm actually specifically hoping we don't fight this war like the first Korean war. I'm hoping war doesn't happen at all. But if it does happen, I expect it to look much more like the six day war and much less like the first Korean war. I'm praying we don't occupy any (enemy) territory because we simply can't afford to. I can see that you are anticipating being obliterated by the first cyberwar, but I do not credit them with the capability to end us over broadband.

Inflict casualties? Yes. But only briefly. I'm sure we will be very shocked and make loud noises about the damage they cause. But in the end it won't be more crippling than when a bee stings your derrier. You shout, you jump, you limp for a while, and then it's over. The bee dies in the stinging. The victim of the sting goes on living.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:14 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"We pretend we'll fight this war like the first Korean War."

Hello,

I'm actually specifically hoping we don't fight this war like the first Korean war. I'm hoping war doesn't happen at all. But if it does happen, I expect it to look much more like the six day war and much less like the first Korean war. I'm praying we don't occupy any (enemy) territory because we simply can't afford to. I can see that you are anticipating being obliterated by the first cyberwar, but I do not credit them with the capability to end us over broadband.

Wow. Way to wildly misinterpret what I *JUST* said. I specifically went out of the way to insist that I *DON'T* think our enemies, whoever they may be at any moment, are ten feet tall and bulletproof.

I don't think anyone is going to "end us" or "obliterate" us via a cyber attack. I *DO* think there is a capability on the part of some, and serious vulnerabilities on our part, that allow us to be quite heavily damaged ECONOMICALLY. You didn't really think 9/11 was simply about the killing of 3000 people, did you? That was the "sting" to which you refer, the one you think is as nothing to us (I'm fair certain it still stings quite a bit to the families of the dead).

What I'm telling you is that if we find ourselves embroiled in hostilities with North Korea, it's not going to be a "six day war". I'll guarantee that 100%. And there will be more than a few casualties. But as I said, the main crux of it will come from collapsing our already crippled economy the rest of the way. In this, you can absolutely count on China to help them out, too - only that help will come in ways that can't be traced back to China. It's more likely to look like Iran or some rogue Russians helped them; if I were doing it, that's where I'd make the electronic fingers point. Or India, just to show that we can't really trust ANYONE, even our alleged allies. Or Palistan, just to destabilize that already tenuous and tumultuous relationship even further.

You all still seem to imagine that any "war" fought with North Korea would center around a military shoot-em-up on the peninsula, involving us and maybe seven armed and starving North Korean irregulars. It almost certainly will not.

I don't overestimate the ability of the North Koreans, but you certainly seem to have underestimated them. It's okay; I'm used to it. We as a nation are used to it. We've filled our cemeteries with the bodies of the soldiers we sent to take care of such "minor problems".

There is an idiotic tendency by most Americans, which they should have been roundly disabused of on September 11, 2001, that we are the sole superpower and the only real military power in the world, and that therefore nobody else is any threat to us at all, and we can do anything we like. You'd think at least a few people would have learned something of reality in the intervening nine years and thousands of dead American soldiers and civilians. Remember, Al Qaeda didn't really have much of a military to speak of, either. And yet, nine years later, they're still more than just a stinger in our ass, aren't they?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:31 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Mike,

Firstly, it is certainly not my intention to misinterpret you. I'm not sure that I have. I understood you were speaking of a cyberwar targeting our economy.

However, I do not expect the current administration to do what Bush did after 9/11.

The damage to our economy caused by the 9/11 attacks was indeed a brief sting. What happened next, with two wars and nine years fighting, was self-inflicted.

Try to imagine a world where we didn't invade any countries after 9/11. Instead, we made a tit-for-tat air strike against bases in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, our commercial planes came back online. Our stock market came back online. We hired a buttload of air-police and invested in anti-terror intel. Then we rebuilt the towers and moved on with our lives.

It wasn't Al Qaeda who caused the real pain after 9/11. It was we ourselves. We rolled out the Patriot Act and the Big Fear. We fought two wars of occupation. We poured trillions down the hole. We did that. Not them. Al Qaeda drew blood, but only a pinprick compared to the ocean of red that we poured out upon the sands. Even the anguish of 3,000 dead civilians is a drop in the bucket compared to the anguish caused by our response.

North Korea can't do that to us. We can only do it to ourselves. I think (hope) that we won't do it to ourselves again. We can't forget the lesson of recent history so completely.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:38 PM

CATPIRATE

GEO politics, Iraq is keeping the pipeline free to the west that is why we are staying. In the movie Charlie Wilson's War. The Texans and Right Wingers knew why the Russian went into Afghanastan to have a strike base into the gulf. North Korean will kill the Pacific economy. I am just saying they will be alot of manuevering by other countries. Our battle groups are focused in the Gulf. Our Navy is not what it has been under Secretary Lehman back in the 80s. He was on Cspan 2 last summer warning about the Navy's slipage and China as up and coming threat. It takes 2 years to build a warship. We have not recovered from 9/11, Katrina, .com bust, and the mortgage crisis. I believe we are in real trouble. Our state department the last 3 to 4 presidents is just lacking a future view of national and world security.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:17 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Remember all that bluster about how Iraq was going to be over in a matter of weeks, and for only a couple billion bucks?

Iraq was over in weeks. I have always considered the lingering insurgency to be a different conflict since the players on the other side had largely changed.

Quote:

How'd that work out for ya? Well, not YOU, personally, because you're a coward and would NEVER volunteer to serve in any of the wars you cheerlead.

How'd Iraq work out for me? What I wanted was Saddam Hussein removed and tens of thousands of Jihadists killed followed by the establishment of a stable, democratically elected govt outside the influence of Iran and Syria.

So while I might have hoped for an easier road...I'm happy with the destination.

As for Korea. I never said the war would be easy...it was not last time. What would happen is a massive offensive by a huge but poorly equiped army that would achieve limited success until they shoot their logistical bolt and US air and naval power comes into play (2-4 weeks). At that point a US led counter attack would cause the North Korean Army to disintigrate and eventually lead to the occupation of their country and reunification with the South who are more then capable of handling an insurgency provided they have US support. Weapons of mass destruction could be deployed, but absent Chinese intervention the result would be complete defeat for North Korea.

I would not volunteer not because I don't want to fight but because I doubt they want a 35 year old out of shape lawyer on the front lines.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:58 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

I would not volunteer not because I don't want to fight but because I doubt they want a 35 year old out of shape lawyer on the front lines.

Well, that's your excuse THIS time around. Seems you're always just doughy enough to avoid volunteering, eh? That must be morally convenient for you.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:31 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Then after the North nukes 30 thousand of our troops he'll send a high level diplomat to negotiate our surrender.

You're a moron. Nothing else need be said.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Then after the North nukes 30 thousand of our troops he'll send a high level diplomat to negotiate our surrender.

You're a moron. Nothing else need be said.

I agree. Obama would surrender long before that ever happened.

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:24 PM

STORYMARK

Thank you for making Kirk look ever so slightly more intelligent.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:01 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Then after the North nukes 30 thousand of our troops he'll send a high level diplomat to negotiate our surrender.

You're a moron. Nothing else need be said.

I agree. Obama would surrender long before that ever happened.

Maybe he'd just declare "Mission Accomplished" instead. ;)

By the way, I note for the record that of the two presidential candidates in the 2008 election, only one of them had a history of actually surrendering. Remember him?

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Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:34 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Well, that's your excuse THIS time around. Seems you're always just doughy enough to avoid volunteering, eh? That must be morally convenient for you.

Me? Or are you talking about 300 million of my fellow Americans?

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, May 27, 2010 5:04 PM

DREAMTROVE

If he was serious, Obama would have put Hill back in NK, finish what he started. Hillary is bent on war, and I'm afraid she's the one wearing the pants in the administration. Fuck it, were screwed. We haven't had a Korean war in over half a century, time for another one. Then we can go back to Vietnam.

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Saturday, January 13, 2024 2:41 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

The South might have issues but still 1,000 times better than NKorea

'Parasite' director criticizes SKorean authorities, media
https://www.manilatimes.net/2024/01/13/videos/parasite-director-critic
izes-skorean-authorities-media/1927938

at least you have the right to call for investigations

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