[quote]Outraged at the proposed building of a 9/11 Anti-Memorial Mosque right near Ground Zero, radio host and [u]Tea Party Express chairman[/u] Mark Wil..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Tea Party isn't racist, no indeed...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, June 5, 2010 14:12
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PAGE 5 of 6

Tuesday, June 1, 2010 11:26 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Fair enough.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 1:30 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
Be Excellent to each other


Absolutely freaking HYSTERICAL! When did you ever follow that advice??? Certainly not HERE, for heaven's sake!

Let's see you go into the ghetto and try to teach people to fish, that should be fun! No, wait, you don't think it's necessary, do you? You're ready for the "dump them in the middle of the ocean" part now, aren't you? Uh, huh. Definitely excellent to each other, definitely.

The RWA mind is a mystery...not a pleasant one, mind you, but a mystery...


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off




To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 1:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Plan of action. Ok. I do have one. Not that its going to be well received...

But I need to put it into words so folks have something to attack.

Give me a day to do so.

I doubt this thread will drop off before I can respond.



That's 23 hours and 44 minutes longer than you gave Anthony, by the way. And I've been asking you for days what your solution was.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:24 PM

FREMDFIRMA


My "cause" as it were is prettymuch thus.

"All humans have human rights".

Is that really, honestly, so bloody hard to wrap your head around ?

And if it takes you THAT long to articulate your "plan" then you don't actually have one, and it shows.

Whereas we have the golden rope program, which operates on a pay it forward meme, and works pretty well, all things considered - the problem with helping folk is that most folk halfass it, either they take their damn life over, which does em no good, or they help em just barely *not* enough, enough to keep em hangin on, hoping, but never enough to actually improve their lot.

Both of those are crueler than doing nothing, sure, but watching you squirm and try to justify it, shovelling excuses by the dozen, speaks no good of you neither, Wulf.

You could try, yanno, bein honest about it, even with yourself, for once.

-Frem

ETA: PS, I know it's gotta be hard, Anthony, and it's kind of amusing to watch you try, but really, snark is more Mikey's cup of tea, even as subtle as you've been lately.

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


How about "all living creatures have rights"? I like that one.

I hate to tell you, but as far as being honest with himself, I don't think it's possible. You have to be able to WANT envision the truth to even admit it to yourself...you know, back to RWA and all that.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
ETA: PS, I know it's gotta be hard, Anthony, and it's kind of amusing to watch you try, but really, snark is more Mikey's cup of tea, even as subtle as you've been lately.


I didn't take it that way. I see it more as Anthony TRYING his damnedest to hold back his temper, and channeling it into snarkiness as a kind of pressure-release valve to keep from just going off on someone.

And he's doing pretty damned good at it, too. :) Both the snark AND the restraint!

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Whereas we have the golden rope program, which operates on a pay it forward meme, and works pretty well, all things considered - the problem with helping folk is that most folk halfass it, either they take their damn life over, which does em no good, or they help em just barely *not* enough, enough to keep em hangin on, hoping, but never enough to actually improve their lot.



Refresh our memories for those who may have missed this in the past, please.

As I understand it, you pull folk up, and you make damn sure they know that it's THEIR responsibility to keep returning the favor, yes? You throw 'em a rope, and they're obligated to keep throwing that rope down to others who need it worse.

At least, that's what I *think* you were talking about.




Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"ETA: PS, I know it's gotta be hard, Anthony, and it's kind of amusing to watch you try, but really, snark is more Mikey's cup of tea, even as subtle as you've been lately."

Hello Frem,

I must admit to my human failings. I do try, but sometimes I am weak.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:46 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I got the same impression Mike did: I can almost see the seething and smoke coming out of his ears, but what's coming out of his "mouth" is civility tinged with sarcasm, between gritted teeth. That's just the impression I got. Me, I'm not so self-controlled!

And yes, I'd like to hear more about the golden rope thing, too. ALWAYS good to hear something uplifting, in times like these!


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"ETA: PS, I know it's gotta be hard, Anthony, and it's kind of amusing to watch you try, but really, snark is more Mikey's cup of tea, even as subtle as you've been lately."

Hello Frem,

I must admit to my human failings. I do try, but sometimes I am weak.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma



Anthony, I think you may be one of the strongest people here. You have my respect and admiration.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 4:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ditto, squared. and I am DEFINITELY not!!!


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Tuesday, June 1, 2010 5:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA



That's what I meant, Mikey - the snark was slipping through his determined effort to be polite even there is smoke boilin out his ears.

And yes, the golden rope program works just like that, once they "make it good" they're then obligated to pull three more out after them - we actually don't run it no more, as it got split off by one of the first folk who bought out a charity group that was dying off and rebuilt it to run as a seperate thing, but there's still a lot of crosstalk and idea sharing, especially since we tend to find more potentials who might have what it takes in our work, and all.

-F

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 5:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Outside

1. End the War on drugs. Make them ALL legal. Use the money that was previously used for enforcement for building Rehab clinics. Enforcement would be based on alchohol laws.

2. Education: Failing schools would fire all teachers that do not perform. Vouchers would be in place. Schools would teach the basics of economics, how to save and use your money properly as well as the other basics of education. I do like the idea of basic courses in how to get a job right out of HS.

Children refusing to participate would be expelled.

3. Crime: The population would be allowed to defend themselves. Castle Doctrine would also apply to vehicles. Further, local groups could organize, and be allowed within certain limits to drive out, by any means necessary, gangs and/or crime.

4. Welfare: Drastically reduced, and more controlled. Having a baby is no longer enough of a reason to get aid.

Just a start... and the rest has to come from the community/culture itself.



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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 5:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


1. I agree. With reservations; at the very least, stop the assinine "war on drugs", and I like your idea of where the money should go.

2. I agree again; with the caveat that I have reservations about vouchers, and I'd say rather than fire, do a better job of overseeing, and definitely do away with tenure!

And expelling children who "refuse to participate" I disagree with; there has to be a better way to deal with the problem than just letting them do what they want anyway (MOST of us didn't want to go to school, given the option, and it just tosses kids in bad home/societal situations back into same.

3. 50/50 I agree with the local groups, don't know what the Castle Doctrine is, and definitely don't think a fully-armed population (especially given the state of he country NOW) solves anything.

4. Welfare needs to be fixed, but reducing it across the board isn't the answer. Again, better oversight and an overhaul. And I hate to tell you, but the VAST majority of those getting welfare don't have kids just to do it. That argument is as fallacious as saying you're gay gets you out of the military. Come to think of it, there was no response that I recall to my refuting that one by saying it's a VOLUNTEER army and one doesn't need to pretend to be gay to get out. But that's another discussion.

Damn, Wulf, you almost restore my hope in your fellow nasties. Someone who can make a lucid, if not completely valid in my opinion, argument! Kuddos. After last night's exercise in futility, I needed it! Oh, if you were only like this all the time...sigh...

Those are my opinions on the matter.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

...so much for "together"...this, instead, weakens us...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 6:07 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I have my lucid moments.

:)P

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 6:09 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Outside

1. End the War on drugs. Make them ALL legal. Use the money that was previously used for enforcement for building Rehab clinics. Enforcement would be based on alchohol laws.

2. Education: Failing schools would fire all teachers that do not perform. Vouchers would be in place. Schools would teach the basics of economics, how to save and use your money properly as well as the other basics of education. I do like the idea of basic courses in how to get a job right out of HS.

Children refusing to participate would be expelled.

3. Crime: The population would be allowed to defend themselves. Castle Doctrine would also apply to vehicles. Further, local groups could organize, and be allowed within certain limits to drive out, by any means necessary, gangs and/or crime.

4. Welfare: Drastically reduced, and more controlled. Having a baby is no longer enough of a reason to get aid.

Just a start... and the rest has to come from the community/culture itself.




Hello,

Thanks for this reply. It turns out that your plan has components from many plans variously proposed by various people here. Let's see what I think.

1) Sounds good to my Libertarian ears. Been advocating this for a while.

2) Other than firing under-performing teachers, most of this is actually being done in high schools across the nation. My own school had all of this, including a work experience program so that students would have a resume' proving experience before ever graduating. I also like the idea of school vouchers, because if school costs X per person, then you ought to be able to decide where to invest your X. It would be important to define 'children refusing to participate.' If you mean children who don't attend any classes? Sure. I guess they've already expelled themselves.


3) This phrase makes no sense: "be allowed within certain limits to drive out, by any means necessary, gangs and/or crime." Please reconcile 'within limits' and 'by any means necessary.' What would these citizens actually be empowered to do?

4) This is vague. More definition is needed. You could mean many things by 'more controlled' and 'less welfare.' Also, I'd like to know what provisions there would be to keep children from starving to death, if any.

--Anthony




"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 6:19 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


3. Much of the problem with gang/crime infested areas is that the people are afraid to do anything about it. The cops are no help, and are sometimes on these guys payroll. I propose that a community organization (small, neighborhood only) be allowed to drive them out themselves. If this group were to ask the offenders to leave, and they refuse... they would have the right to MAKE them leave. And not face charges for doing so. Actually empower the people to forcibly drive the element out.

4. The provisions to keep children from starving are called "parents". (Sorry to snark :)P). Much of the money wasted on welfare, can be better used as a job-creation program. Loans to start business, ect.

Welfare would be limited to a few years, and based on income. You wouldn't be kicked off for having a job at MCDonalds, but you wouldnt get any more if you had another child.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 10:43 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Bump for effect.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:20 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Wulf,

Item 3 is sketchy to me. You are essentially empowering people to drive out 'undesirables.' But one wonders what that means. People convicted of a crime are in jail. People observed to commit a crime can be sent on their way to jail. What else are you proposing here, exactly?

4) You didn't quite address what you would do with starving children. Would there be an intervention system? Would they be allowed to starve? I'm not clear on this.

I'm also curious on health care for children.

--Anthony




"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No, you're lucid all the time; misguided sometimes, misinformed others, and it's only your nastiness which makes you completely irrelevant at certain times...and/or your desire to get under the skin of others. You have a brain, you just don't seem to use it often enough.

I don't think #4 is workable. If regular folks went up against gangs, it's pretty clear which would win. Even if they drove them out, I think it would make the neighborhood even less safe because of potential retaliation. I also don't think I'd trust weapons and permission to just any old person; just like jobs such as cops, leading such a group can easily attract the wrong kind of person who wants to go beyond the bounds of reasonable, thus endangering everyone. It's a nice idea, which I like, but I don't think it's workable.

Without the "driving" and weapons, it's what we already have in many places here, called "neighborhood watch". We exchange information on any neighbor who's been robbed, etc., report things that are questionable, call the police--who around here at least are VERY helpful. I don't know what steps would be viable beyond that, but then I don't live in a crime-ridden area anymore.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.”

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Nix, thats the problem.

You do not trust regular folks to have any sort of power.

This is wrong and against what our country is about.

A simple, regular person SHOULD have the power to conrol their own destiny. AND protect their lives, their families, and their neighborhoods.

Its the only thing that works.

ETA: So, whats the idea then, besides sitting behind your cutains and calling he cops?

Even I am not so far gone that I would hope for the A-Team.


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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"If regular folks went up against gangs, it's pretty clear which would win. Even if they drove them out, I think it would make the neighborhood even less safe because of potential retaliation. I also don't think I'd trust weapons and permission to just any old person; just like jobs such as cops, leading such a group can easily attract the wrong kind of person who wants to go beyond the bounds of reasonable, thus endangering everyone. It's a nice idea, which I like, but I don't think it's workable."

Hello,

The regular folks would win, outnumbering their opposition a hundred to one. However, that's not the point.

You can't oust someone for being 'undesirable.' They have to do something illegal. And when they do, you call the police. This IS what Neighborhood Watch is. Observe and Report.

This does NOT appear to be what Wulf is advocating.

--Anthony




"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:44 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"This does NOT appear to be what Wulf is advocating."

No.

Its not.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
ETA: So, whats the idea then, besides sitting behind your cutains and calling he cops?

Cut the budget of the cops when they can't be bothered to do any goddamn thing but prey on the community themselves...

And use the money to hire contract security, that's what.

We did it here, and it worked so damn well that others have followed suit, and this has reduced crime and chaos significantly - and all the while the blue suit mafia throwing a hissy and revealing themselves to be part of the problem instead of it's solution.

Essential problem with it, is making damn sure you hire someone with ethics, and that's a tricky business given that the security industry is very hit or miss in that respect - but at least you have the option to friggin FIRE them, which you don't, when it comes to the blue suit mafia, and no security company is going to bother with the level of harrassment the badge bearing goons will just to keep a contract.

Private enterprise, don't you know - and that oughta make your corp-fondling libertarian heart go pitter patter, oughten it ?

And yes, obviously one of them contract security companies is mine, but then this concept around here was kinda my idea in the first place, and that I profit from it is no secret - but it HAS benefitted the community, tremendously.

-Frem

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:49 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yay... call the A-team.

Call anyone who you can pretend has authority.

Or.

Take it upon yourself to deal with the problems you have.

I would rather have my friend and my neighbor parolling the street than some hired goon or government agent.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Obviously it's not what he's theorizing. I know he's a gun bunny. But I maintain they WOULDN'T win--thousand to one or not (which it wouldn't be, as not everyone in a neighborhood would be willing to participate), gang mentality would send them back to take revenge, and you can't run someone out when they just drive through shooting or something.

No, Wulf, around here we don't have the same problems you do. We have a PEACEFUL community. Oh, we have our problems, occasional murders, rapes, robberies, but no "gangs" to speak of, and no neighborhoods with what we call "undesirables". Partly it's because we DO have a good police force, and they work WITH the community to keep it that way, because the community trusts them to do so.

I realize that's not the case everywhere, so hey, strap on your six-shooter and see what "difference" your concept makes. I'm putting money on "none".

No, change the wording and you'd be right: I don't trust EVERYONE, not "regular people". Among regular people are those with mindsets I'd not trust with a gun, or power over me, simple as that. Who makes the rules? Who has the power? Even for what you suggest, someone's got to be in power; getting any three people to agree on anything is virtually impossible as it is. You're slipping back into that fantasy world inhabited by heroes and stuff. I certainly agree that it's the way it SHOULD be, but in the real world: not so much. You'd find out if your wish came true, one or another of YOUR 'gang' wouldn't like you, might have an argument, might be drunk when they have it, and you'd REALLY be in that fantasy world...or the hospital.

Not all people are responsible, so no, I wouldn't trust all people with guns and power.

Yes, Anthony, that's what neighborhood watch is, and it works great for us.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.”

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:54 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I would rather have someone who has a stake in things than just someone who is drawing a paycheck.

Stake vs paycheck in the safety of the neighborhood.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 11:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
Essential problem with it, is making damn sure you hire someone with ethics, and that's a tricky business given that the security industry is very hit or miss in that respect - but at least you have the option to friggin FIRE them
Now THAT idea I can agree with! With the caveat above. Giving trained people whose employment is within the neighborhood's control isn't half bad.

In areas that need it. I know there are areas where the cops are less than useless (and more than harmful!) and areas where cops can't handle the situation...call 'em goons if you will, but it's the most viable option I've heard in the kind of venue we're discussing. Having power over those who have power, THAT's what America's founded on, if you will...only trouble is, we've lost the power over those who have the power...politicians, government AND cops, as it were.

It's not what Wulf wants, HE wants to have the power...one reason I'd not trust him with it!

But done as private enterprise, it makes sense, IF it were done right. Just my opinion.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.”

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:05 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Giving trained people whose employment is within the neighborhood's control isn't half bad."

Trained.

It always comes back to that with you guys doesn't it?

I'm more trained than most cops walking out there.

But ok, so you get a neighborhood to buy "trained" people to patrol the streets.

They still don't have a real stake in the place. Not like someone who actually lives there.

You know, they don't have a reason to make things better like someone who has their family living in a house on the block does.

But hey, paying someone to take care of your "problem" is so convienant.

Don't feel like mowing your lawn, pay someone... don't feel like changing your oil... pay someone... don't feel like raising your kids... pay someone...

Its always the same.




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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Niki,

I think you see now why there are certain personalities I would never invite to the RLSH movement. I spent a few moments cussing quietly to myself when you posted what you did. (I apologize for my harsh language.)

The movement has enough gung-ho rambonistas already. What Wulf has described is essentially a gang of his own. His gang, pushing out undesirables. And he gets to decide who the undesirables are. I have a terrible image of Cartman rounding up the Hippies.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:21 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yeah, Anthony. Its a joke. Its a very funny joke.



http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103809

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:26 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yeah, these guys are the ones to fix things.




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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:28 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
I'm more trained than most cops walking out there.
but nowhere near as responsible!

Yes, Anthony, that's why I SAID "your gang", because that's exactly what it would BE. And your description was exactly what I was envisioning. But HE wants the power, that's it. HE wants to decide who's undesirable. HE wants the satisfaction of evicting them. HE wants to strut around with his sidearm buckling his swash and humming the national anthem, secure in the knowledge that HE is responsible for his own destiny. Not a pretty picture, you're right.

Oh, thank goodness, Wulf...I'm glad you see what a joke it is. Good for you!


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:30 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wulf: Irrelevant nonsense. Back down the rabbit hole with you.

Anthony: What's an RLSH movement? I can see why nobody would invite Wulf into ANY movement, but I'm not familiar with that term.


Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:36 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Uh huh.... its a joke, it really is.

Right to the point its at your door. But hey! You've got afew years before that happens!

Now, I saw a vegan thread before... so ENJOY!

Its not like there are real problems in the world... and even if there were you guys could pay osmeone to take care of them! Cops, military, crime, whatever! Enjoy the bliss!


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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:37 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Anthony: What's an RLSH movement? I can see why nobody would invite Wulf into ANY movement, but I'm not familiar with that term.
"

It means Real Life Super Hero you aging hippie.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:37 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Real Life Super Heroes (as opposed to Imaginary Villains), recently brought to my attention in a different thread, and very, very tempting targets for my nascent villainy. They apparently take themselves seriously.

My costume is nearly complete; my henchmen being interviewed.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:38 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


“Trained.

It always comes back to that with you guys doesn't it?

I'm more trained than most cops walking out there.”

Hello,

I don’t care if the force is a free volunteer group, or security for pay. It doesn’t matter. Training *does* matter. And as expertly trained as you seem to think you are, you shouldn’t be eager to get out there enforcing the law without additional training. There’s things you don’t know, Wulf. Perhaps and especially you may not know how to solve problems without the threat of violence ever needing to surface. You also need careful instruction on how people can’t be ‘driven out’ of a neighborhood just because they are ‘undesirable.’ You may need training on how to distance yourself from the situation so that you can deal with it sans emotional contamination. From the statements you’ve made here, I think you could benefit from a lot of additional training.

Or did you mean training how to shoot people and beat them with a baton? If you need that training, you’ve already failed. Everything from that point forward is damage control. The moment you engage any type of violence, everybody loses. Some just lose more than others.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:47 PM

BYTEMITE


mincingbeast: Ha! Sounds like that comicbook/movie, Kickass.

I do like that movie, and the comic book is equally excellent, treating the father figure as the affectionate-but-complete-monster that he is, and realistically showing that anyone who tried to be an everyday (super) hero is probably going to get their ass kicked.

At the same time, the willingness to put yourself on the line for someone else, even complete strangers, knowing that you're going to get your ass kicked... It's stupid, but it's the kind of stupid that deserves respect.

Good luck on your villainy, there can be no heroism without villainy. But try to limit it to rolling your waxed up mustache and stealing candy?

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
Perhaps and especially you may not know how to solve problems without the threat of violence ever needing to surface. You also need careful instruction on how people can’t be ‘driven out’ of a neighborhood just because they are ‘undesirable.’ You may need training on how to distance yourself from the situation so that you can deal with it sans emotional contamination. From the statements you’ve made here, I think you could benefit from a lot of additional training.
Nah, he's perfectly trained to be a mindless blowhard; just give him a gun and turn him loose, think how it would solve the population explosion!

I see we're back on "hippie", idjit. And here I was lulled into think you had a brain. I take back what I said; you know absolutely nothing of real hippies, but it seems you are just like Whatsit, curled up in your closet with your hippie bobblhead clutched in your hot, sweaty little hand. No other conceivable reason for you to be so focused on them.

Let's see, I'll have to add that to my title...

Byte, I hate to disillusion you, but he wouldn't be putting himself on the line for others...does that REALLY fit your picture of the Wulfster? No, it's more like enjoying the vision of himself, out there, trusty six-shooter at his side (in holster, tied with one of those little leg straps), strutting around deciding who's desirable and who's not, and ridin' 'em out of town on a rail at the barrel of his gun. Has nothing to do with protecting others, that just doesn't fit his fantasy world...unless you count the hooker-with-a-heart of gold who's leaning on the saloon door, ready to melt into his arms...


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:49 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Oh hell.

No, I mean in the very real sense "Get offa my lawn".

But yeah, pretending that a gunshot solves everything is foolish.

However, it is decisive.

And for SOME neighborhoods, 2 in the head 1 in the heart works a lot better than community service.

Glad to know that you have never seen these places tho.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:53 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"No other conceivable reason for you to be so focused on them."

No, Nix, none at all.

Except its that which has made this world/country so much the worse for it.

I lay most of societies problems square at your feet.

But thats an argument for another thread.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
And for SOME neighborhoods, 2 in the head 1 in the heart works a lot better than community service.
See? I rest my case.
Quote:
Except its that which has made this world/country so much the worse for it.
That sentence doesn't make sense. Not that you mind.

Ach, waste of time. Time to go do something actually CONSTRUCTIVE with my day...like housework. It's been fun...


Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off


To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:58 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
mincingbeast: Ha! Sounds like that comicbook/movie, Kickass.

I do like that movie, and the comic book is equally excellent, treating the father figure as the affectionate-but-complete-monster that he is, and realistically showing that anyone who tried to be an everyday (super) hero is probably going to get their ass kicked.

At the same time, the willingness to put yourself on the line for someone else, even complete strangers, knowing that you're going to get your ass kicked... It's stupid, but it's the kind of stupid that deserves respect.

Good luck on your villainy, there can be no heroism without villainy. But try to limit it to rolling your waxed up mustache and stealing candy?


wow, thanks for the inspiration! the waxed mustache is just what my costume lacks. i'm going to dress up in a suit and tie, and carry a brief case. i'll add a mustache, and a stylish robber mask.

my villainy will be rather mild, at least at first. i'll scale it to the competence of the heroes. i shall introduce myself to the so-called hero as a Jew lawyer from Hollywood, and threaten to sue them. While they try to process that, I will deliver purple nurples, wedgies, melvins, and hot karls, until they wail and say uncle. eventually, however, this will no longer satisfy me, and i will be forced to resort to murder. or corporate fraud.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:03 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


*Wulf remembers to be responsible*

“But yeah, pretending that a gunshot solves everything is foolish.”

*Then, wistfully...*

“However, it is decisive.”

*Now with a gleam in his eye*

“And for SOME neighborhoods, 2 in the head 1 in the heart works a lot better than community service.”

*The image completes itself, as he established his superiority over others as the grizzled veteran of the streets*

“Glad to know that you have never seen these places tho.”

Hello,

You’d be surprised what people have seen, Wulf. It’s just that not everyone goes around claiming to be an authority on the ‘real’ problems of the world, where the ‘real’ bad things happen on the ‘real’ streets. You yourself might be surprised on how much ‘real’ stuff is going on out there that you ‘really’ have no idea about.

But of course, crediting other people with wisdom means exercising a bit of it yourself.

--Anthony


"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:12 PM

BYTEMITE


That was a response to mincingbeasts Real Life Heroes or whatever. I probably should have made that more clear.

Oh look, there's a discussion going on about neighborhood watches versus police versus vigilantism.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:17 PM

BYTEMITE


XD

Just have a camera for all your exploits, man. I have a feeling you could make more money marketing your villainy and entertaining an audience than you could doing actual crime.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutLexLuthorACheck

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 4:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I would rather have someone who has a stake in things than just someone who is drawing a paycheck.

Stake vs paycheck in the safety of the neighborhood.

Idiot.

Oh, did I mention I moved over *into* site three cause the rent was cheaper and the place was nicer, although it was all of a block and a half anyways.

You see, it's MY neighborhood too, MY turf, and I do have a freakin stake, somehow in your chest beating blowharding you kinda missed that, and for your information I tend to draw my recruits from the area that they'll be protecting for that very reason, duh.

As for "training", the whole idea is for it NOT to come to violence, if it does, as a general rule you fucked up.

I bit my tongue on it since I knew left unchecked you'd tip your hand and reveal once again what a sick little bastard you are - you don't want a neighborhood watch at all, do you ?

No, you want a lynch mob, and I am pretty sure your definition of "undesirable" means anyone darker than you, as well.

So tell us all again how racist you're not, Klanboy, and watch us laugh at you.

You *do* understand it's people LIKE YOU, which folks hire us to protect their community AGAINST, right - that you, and people like you, are the real undesirables, always stirring trouble and violence against anything and everything that isn't exactly like them, paranoid xenophobics who by their attitudes and actions, make it a self-fulfilling prophecy by drawing the ire of every reasonable, and many unreasonable, people upon them, thus "justifying" (*snort*) their pathetic squalls of rage, like any other bully when they suddenly realize they don't have numbers on their side, oh woe the whining...

And yeah, I ain't exactly all that respectable cause I do indeed get a kick of out setting different factions of xenophobes against each one another and hoping for a slaughter - but in my opinion the worlds better off without em.

See, I wouldn't *have* to run you out of town, just let you wind yourself up against a bunch of xenophobes darker than you, who also hate anything that isn't just like them, and let matters come to their natural conclusion as you wind up pounded into the pavement by the very WORST of the paranioac xenophobes, who have a tremendous amount of troops, weapons and equipment at their disposal...

You know, the ones wearing badges.

And damn right I'd be grinnin all the while.

-Frem

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 4:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Just have a camera for all your exploits, man. I have a feeling you could make more money marketing your villainy and entertaining an audience than you could doing actual crime.

Hey Byte, you remember the silent film buff who loaned me the villain outfit for my rather theatrical exit from the city council ?

He does pretty well for himself with that, especially since he has a perfect hammy, over the top villain to work with.

-F

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 4:54 PM

BYTEMITE


Hell yes. I would so watch any of you guys if you started some sort of "villain" media series of some kind. Or even just general badassitude/wiliness.

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