Quote:

---

UNDATED - Bad news for drivers with a need to speed. The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled police officers can make a speeding judgment using only their eyes, and the officer's recollection is enough evidence to convict drivers of speeding.

The case involves a driver caught on radar violating the speed limit. The driver challenged the ticket, saying he wasn't speeding, but drivers near him were.

The radar reading was thrown out when the officer involved could not prove he was qualified to operate the radar gun, but a judge decided the driver was still guilty because the officer was trained to visually judge speed. Ohio's highest court upheld the lower court conviction in a 5-1 ruling.
John Townsend with AAA Mid-Atlantic says the ruling is troubling.

"Human beings make mistakes, and what this is saying is that officers of the law can't make mistakes," he says.

If you get a speeding ticket this way, Townsend says you should take it to court.

"Challenge it," he says. "Make the officer prove that you're actually speeding. It's worth your time, and it's worth your money."

(Copyright 2010 by WTOP. All rights reserved.)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

The driver challenged the ticket, saying he wasn't speeding, but drivers near him were.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

I've been driving for 40 years without a seat belt

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

http://wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1971527

---

Quote:

---

Ohio Supreme Court Upholds Speeding Ticket By Visual Guess

Police officers in Ohio can issue speeding tickets based on sight, state supreme court rules.

In a 5-1 decision yesterday, Ohio's Supreme Court upheld a speeding ticket based solely on how fast a driver appeared to be moving. The court considered the case of motorist Mark Jenney who drove through a State Route 21 radar speed trap operated by Copley police officer Christopher R Santimarino on July 3, 2008. Santimarino guessed based on the appearance of Jenney's black SUV that it was traveling at 79 MPH in a 60 zone.

Santimarino claimed that his thirteen years as a traffic cop and his certification in speed estimation by the Ohio Peace Officer Training Academy qualified him to make expert visual determinations of how fast vehicles are moving within 4 MPH. In court, Santimarino testified that his radar showed Jenney was traveling at 82 MPH on direct examination and 83 MPH on cross-examination.

Based on this, a district court convicted Jenney. On appeal, Jenney succeeded in having the radar evidence thrown out because the officer failed to produce the required certification documents at trial. The appeals court then ruled that the visual guess as to Jenney's speed was sufficient evidence for a conviction. Jenney appealed to the supreme court, which agreed with the lower court rulings that an officer's educated guess is sufficient to overcome that state's burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

"A majority of the appellate districts that have considered the issue have held that an officer's testimony that in his opinion, a defendant was traveling in excess of the speed limit is sufficient to sustain a conviction for speeding," Justice Maureen O'Connor wrote for the majority. "Given Santimarino's training, OPOTA certification, and experience in visually estimating vehicle speed, his estimation that Jenney was traveling 70 miles per hour was sufficient to support Jenney's conviction... We hold that a police officer's unaided visual estimation of a vehicle's speed is sufficient evidence to support a conviction for speeding in violation of R.C. 4511.21(D) without independent verification of the vehicle's speed if the officer is trained, is certified by the Ohio Peace Officer Training Academy or a similar organization that develops and implements training programs to meet the needs of law enforcement professionals and the communities they serve, and is experienced in visually estimating vehicle speed."

Justice Terrence O'Donnell filed a dissent that argued the majority essentially created a standard that the police officer is always right.

"Like any other witness, a police officer's credibility is to be determined by the jury or other fact-finder," O'Donnell wrote. "In fact, jury instructions given regularly by trial judges advise that a jury is privileged to believe all, part, or none of the testimony of any witness. Thus, I would assert that a broad standard as postulated by the majority that a trained, certified, and experienced officer's estimate of speed is sufficient evidence to support a conviction for speeding eclipses the role of the fact-finder to reject such testimony and thus such testimony, if found not to be credible, could, in some instances, be insufficient to support a conviction."

http://thenewspaper.com/news/31/3160.asp

A copy of the decision is available in a 50k PDF file at the source link below.

Source: Barberton v. Jenney (Supreme Court, State of Ohio, 6/3/2010)
http://thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2010/oh-visual.pdf

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
What's next?...$ 1000 fine for smoking in a car??...or $500 fine for changing the radio station in a car? Where does it stop?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Here's something you could do, Jong.

Have a friend in the car with you take your picture, with timestamps, as you take off your shirt, put on the seat belt, and then (somehow?) put your shirt on over it. Try to make the illusion as convincing as possible, then drive to the intersection where the sting operation is taking place.

Hopefully one of the cops will try to write you a ticket. This is probably time-stamped as well for a report.

Afterwards, take some pictures again showing that you still had your seatbelt on under your shirt.

Then challenge the fine in court, and lodge a formal complaint about the sting operation.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratenews:
Or make a citizens arrest of the cop at any time, using the same procedure as any private security guard arresting shoplifters, or a homeowner arresting a burgler.

Either the judge MUST sign the arrest warrant for the cop, or MUST dismiss all charges against the driver. That's THE LAW.

---

Quote:

---

Generally, obstruction charges are laid when it is discovered that a person questioned in an investigation, has lied to the investigating officers. However, in most common law jurisdictions, the right to remain silent allows any person questioned by police merely to refuse to answer questions posed by an investigator without giving any reason for doing so.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Theoretically, you might be able to get your friend to get a picture of the interaction with the officer, showing that the seatbelt was still on during the exchange, especially if they weren't in the car with you at the time.

---

Quote:

---

If they didn't ask if my seat belt was belted, I didn't have to tell them it was.

---

Quote:

---

I'd take an obstruction of justice charge, though, if it caused police to look more closely at their practices. That really can't be the best use of their time, either to get funding for their precinct OR to promote public safety.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratenews:

Or make a citizens arrest of the cop at any time, using the same procedure as any private security guard arresting shoplifters, or a homeowner arresting a burgler.

---

Yeah, try that one and ignore my evil laugh...

---

Quote:

---

"Don't get a DUI. When a cop pulls you over..... shoot him!" (crowd cheered wildly)
-Christopher Scum, The Dirty Works, Rebel Scum movie premier, Knoxville Tennessee
http://www.myspace.com/rebelscumthemovie

"Back during Prohibition, when ATF agents went to the mountains to bust stills, they didn't come back. People wouldn't tolerate that oppression. That was before fluoride was added to the water..."
-Police Officer Jack McLamb, Jack McLamb Radio Show, 20 Feb 2010 (his webmaster was sent to prison for infiltrating Bohemian Grove and shooting video as an employee)
http://www.jackmclamb.org

"Rocky Top you'll always be
Home sweet home to me
Good ole Rocky Top, Rocky Top, Tennessee
Rocky Top, Tennessee.
Once two strangers climbed old Rocky Top
Looking for a moonshine still
Strangers ain't come down from Rocky Top
Reckon they never will."
http://www.utk.edu/athletics/tn_songs.shtml

"I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend."
-Vice President Dick Cheney, Fox News
youtube.com/watch?v=pR7CH9zvD6s
www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheney_doc.html


"I saw two officers as before, who rode up to me, with their pistols in their hands, said God damn you stop, if go an Inch further, you are a dead Man, and swore if we did not turn in to that pasture, they would blow our brains out. Major Mitchel of the 5th Regt clapd his Pistol to my head, and said he was going to ask me some questions, if I did not tell the truth, he would blow my brains out. I told him I esteemed myself a man of truth, that he had stopped me on the highway, & made me a prisoner, I knew not by what right; I would tell him the truth; I was not afraid."
—Paul Revere, owner of RevereWare¨, sworn affidavit: "Memorandum on Events of April 18, 1775" (declassified Top Secret), while under arrest (and subsequent escape) from Redcoat martial-law traffic police at Minute Man National Historic Park, Paul Revere Capture Site, on the eve of the American Revolutionary War and kicking off the Battle of Lexington and Concord, against the army, navy and courts of King George III, heriditary dictator of England who attempted "gun control" by an Assault Weapons Ban of defensive 50-caliber muskets and cannon, Paul Revere's Ride, by David Hackett Fischer



"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—President George W. Bush, CNN Larry King Live, November 2, 2000
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

"Cheney’s first DWI conviction came in November 1962 when he was 21. According to the docket from Cheyenne’s Municipal Court, Cheney was arrested for drunkenness and 'operating motor vehicle while intoxicated.' A Cheyenne Police Judge found Cheney guilty of the two charges and hit him with a 30-day suspension of his driver’s license. Cheney also had to forfeit a $150 bond posted at the time of his arrest. Further information about the case - such as the defendant’s blood alcohol content or whether Cheney was jailed following the arrest - is unavailable since other court records from that period have been destroyed, according to Wyoming officials. Details of Cheney’s second Wyoming arrest in July 1963, have also fallen victim to time and records destruction practices at the local Municipal Court. But a police arrest card maintained by the Rock Springs Police Department shows that Cheney was fined $100 for his second DWI conviction. The card lists the charge against Cheney, who was then working as a groundman laying power lines, as '11-44,' the criminal code classification for drunken driving, according to Police Chief Neil Kourbelas. At the time of the Rock Springs arrest, Kourbelas said that local cops and judges would not have known that young Cheney was a repeat offender. The police department, Kourbelas said, 'wouldn’t have had the ability to automatically check with other jurisdictions to find out if anyone had prior arrests or convictions. We could have arrested Jack the Ripper back then and had no idea what he had done.'”
-Allen Trapp, GaDUIblog.com, Top 50 DUI Arrests of All-Time, February 16, 2007
http://gaduiblog.com/category/dui-arrests-that-made-the-news/top-50-du
i-arrests-of-all-time/
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cheney_doc.html

"Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, and then there are ignorant mutherfuckers like you! You can put lipstick on a pig. Sorry ass mutherfucker's got nuttin on me. I inhaled frequently - that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead. That's where I'd been headed. You ain't my bitch nigger, git your own damn fries!"
-Barack Hussien Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father, MP3:
http://www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Its a waste of their time, you would have wasted their time, you would have wasted the Court's time...and that why I'd fight hard to waste some of your time...in the City jail or maybe doing community service, its summer, maybe you could wash police cars. We like our cars shiny.

H

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Even more ridiculous is the TICKET I got yesterday for not wearing a seat belt......$ 115 frikkin' dollars! It's goddamn fascism is what it is.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by piratenews:
Or just shoot and kill crooked copsters on sight with your AK47, as juries will allow you to do:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:

Or they convict you and hopefully sentence you to death.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hero:
An earlier suggestion was made to conceal the seatbelt to somehow entrap the officer. I note for the record that an officer can rely on good faith as a defense to his actions.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:
But a citizen can't? If I know I wasn't speeding but a police officer says I was - just based on his judgement (or the need for civic revenue) with no backup from radar or other means - I'm considered guilty?

---