For Frem: Recording of Police is illegal in some places. Be careful. by Wulfenstar

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:14 AM

:o

What? That's... What? Why do they get a privilege other citizens don't get? The only thing that does, is protect the police if they're doing something they shouldn't be. It makes any recorded evidence obtained inadmissable at trial because it was technically obtained illegally.

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:18 AM

I'm sending this to my brother, he's studying constitutional law. He's going to shit a brick when he sees this.

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:20 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Yeah, its crazy.

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 1:11 PM

Well aware of it, been watching the Maryland case for a while now - PG county cops have always been pretty slimy, with a long history of really over the top abuses.

They're pissed that we're turning their surveillence society back upon them and using it to scrutinize their conduct, much like how my nieces school now wants those cameras gone, cause someone showed the locals and the students how to hack into the network, levelling the playing field and scrutinizing the school administration.

But that's just it, these assholes do not WANT a level playing field, they want it all their way, and they'll not have it, folks in general are tired of their crap, and if they cannot act professional we go to the one control we have left, the purse strings.

As predicted, Detroit mayor Bing (who's in Worthy's pocket) vetoed our 6.5million budget cut for the DPD, but we're gonna run his ass over with it, oh yes we will - Pugh, the city council leader, he's "with" us on this, completely.

Of course, since they can self-finance by the legalized theft of forfeiture and "traffic enforcement" they've gotten really rabid about it, but then took a 1-2 punch on the chin when it was determined that many places (who get a cut of the ticket money) had illegally low speed limits or illegally short lights, and so now it's become a multi-front kind of thing as the community has all but declared war on the blue suit mafia.

I *do* with they'd stop freakin shootin at each other though, it's a losing proposition against the superior firepower, equipment, and organisation (such as it is) of the badge bearing horde - much better to chop their funding and political support (which means taking on Kym Worthy, and that's gonna get nasty..) then to try and directly engage and then "justify" their bullshit.

But yes, we're gonna cram the Maryland case up their ass crossways, cause MD is gonna soft-shoe it, but once it goes federal, since we have less jackboots and jackboot lickers in power right now, they're gonna get cut to pieces in the courtroom.

Not to say this administration doesn't have it's flaws, but they got other problems on their plate and this one isn't part of their platform, so we'll steal a march on em here while they're all looking south, neh ?

-Frem

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 1:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

If it is illegal to film police without their consent, is it not also illegal for them to film you without your consent? How can this not be a goose-gander situation? It seems this sort of legislation could easily backfire on them.

How many cameras does law enforcement point at people in public areas?

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 1:30 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Equal Protection...1-million Americans were genocided and entire American cities were burned down by the fed govt to enforce it.

US Constitutions...use it or lose it.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=equal+protecti
on+doctrine

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 3:19 PM

RIVERDANCER

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
it was determined that many places (who get a cut of the ticket money) had illegally low speed limits or illegally short lights

This may be an odd thing for me to focus on, but can you tell me more about this? I've wondered more than once exactly how speed limits were determined. It stemmed from wondering why some stretches of nothing let you go 65mph and other stretches of nothing dropped down to 55mph, but I've also started to wonder about in-town limits and who comes up with them.
I have timed a green light at ten seconds. What constitutes an illegally short light? What recourse can be taken?

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 3:39 PM

Gee, can you tell it's my vaction day ?

Lucky you, gimme a sec.

This is the basic info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_the_United_States

Now, here's the bit on low MI speed limits.
http://blog.motorists.org/michigan-cities-break-law-more-speeding-tick
ets/

And here's a bit about short yellows in other cities, which is a bigger problem than piss poor light timing, although that too tends to get solved by a decent engineering study.
http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-
light-times-for-profit/

When it comes to this kinda stuff you got two really good sources.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/
http://www.motorists.org/
And a little diggin there will find you all the information your heart desires, and likely more than you can stomach, since they get right down to the nitty gritty details of the actual studies themselves.

Which, of course show without a doubt that traffic enforcement has nothing to do with safety, and everything to do with money, showing up cops as the mafia protection racket they really are, once again.

-Frem

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:03 PM

I will also add something I found, which isn't mentioned too much in the above sources, but what is why I avoid the PA turnpike even if it adds a lot of distance.

PA turnpike officials have this habit of putting up phonyass "construction zones" as a speedtrap for profit, like down to 35mph for SIXTEEN MILES, for a single road cone, I mean you can really tell it's just a bullshit setup to provoke folk into "speeding" so that they can slap a double fine - and it's frustrating as shit when what should be a 2 hour leg of the trip becomes SIX hours of frustration and annoyance despite the idea of a turnpike being that you pay for a quick, well maintained, nonstop routing, yes ?

Mind you, this is at 3am in the goddamn morning, and there are no workers out there, nor is there any work going on, and often there's not even any EVIDENCE that any work was, or is being, done, just whoop - out of the blue, cones closing off a lane and down to 35mph, or even 30mph, for TWENTY TWO MORE MILES (the cones and lane closure lasted 150 feet) and then... oh yes, here's the real rumdinger.. a sign saying "Resume Legal Speed", which is.. what, exactly ?

Of course you don't know, cause various sections have different speed limits and the last sign you saw before the bullshit construction zone was miles and miles ago and may not even apply - but should you dare trying to accellerate, that'll be your ass, cause the "legal speed" is still what the last construction zone sign said it was, till you SEE another speed limit posted, which could be another fifteen, twenty miles.

And you bet your ass there's a cop or three hidden near that "Resume legal speed" sign just waitin for your ass too.

Now, after well over a hundred miles of that shit, you can imagine a certain frustration when you reach another, and another, of these zones where there's no work being done, and no evidence any ever was or will be, and a temptation to blow off that 35mph sign, yes ?

And that's a HUGE fine, since it's a construction zone, and they get to double it up on top, and since you're a transient (PA residents know this is a scam and avoid the turnpike at all costs) they know damn well you'll pay the extortion and go, and if you don't, well, then they will hit you with massive court costs for your temerity.

Mind you - they've never caught me out, so this isn't cause I am pissed about a ticket, I've never recieved one, not in 24 years, and THAT one was bullshit anyway... this is because I find it offensive in more ways than I can express, most especially cause you're supposedly paying the toll to avoid that kind of hassle.

And yes, I *did* complain, and threaten, quite bitterly, and they *DID* refund my toll rather than make an issue of it which would lead to public questions about the nature and purpose of those construction zones.

This is a big pet peeve with me since I will NOT get on an airplane if it requires being pawed at by TSA goons, since that would entail a long striptease and a removal and inspection of all my prosthetic equipment, which I find utterly intolerable for any savings of time or money.
(not to mention the possibility of their fucking attitude making me lose my cool and pitch one out a terminal window)

Of course, once I get off the turnpike, if some cop decides to screw with me in the appalacian hills, well... hope they brought a 4x4 and a really good map, cause your GPS ain't gonna be no help findin ME in the dark up in the back hills on the old shine routes.

-F

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:17 PM

RIVERDANCER

Wow, thanks Frem, that's very interesting. I will start checking the yellow light times in my town, most definitely. And I might actually find some of those engineering studies interesting, if they answer some of my questions about the where and why of speed limits.
I find it troubling that not all limits and lights are set with studies. It seems like they should be. That they aren't explains some of the slower middle-of-nowhere limits I've encountered, I think. I know your opinion leans towards the money-making aspects, but could cost be a factor in roads not being examined often enough? I'll be interested to see if that motorist site has any analysis of what it takes to run the studies.
Thank you again.

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:25 PM

RIVERDANCER

I've seen construction zones that weren't construction zones! Not in the area you mention, but on the interstate I take sometimes. It always irritated me that they had the zone all set up when no work was being done on it yet (some eventually was) and it slowed traffic to a crawl.
I am a very responsible driver, and I always follow the posted limits, but they've certainly irritated me in the past. It's nice to hear that wasn't at all irrational on my part.

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:34 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

This is something that needs to work its way to the Supremes. If they affirm it, maybe it's time for some big changes.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:
could cost be a factor in roads not being examined often enough?

It can be, but more often that's just an excuse, most of the townships using that "couldn't afford the study" excuse suddenly go crosseyed and clam up when we point out they could simply take it out of the ticket income...
It's HILARIOUS to watch the mental trainwreck happen on their face when you spring that on em, too.

Here in Michigan, at the end of the workday, the construction guys move the cones over and throw heavy tarps over the work zone speed limit signs, so folks don't have to put up with that crap unless there's work being done - rather than any legal hoodoo, just a matter of mutual consent that works out quite well, cause folk *know* that the signs actually MEAN workers, and will obey them rather more strictly for that reason, meaning more safety for everyone.

Cryin wolf can lead to bad consequences there.

Oh, and fair warning, PirateNews is also quite a fan of both sites I mentioned, so you may find yourself tripping over ole Johnboy over there as well, just so you know.

-Frem

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 5:51 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

This is really horrifying. How are we to hold corrupt officers accountable when the prime source of evidence of same is being deemed inadmissible? What the hell are they playing at? "Oh, we're getting caught being assholes more and more often, we better do something about it." Disgusting.

Frem, did I ever tell you about my traffic enforcement encounter? They really like those middle of the night pounces, don't they?
I'll check those sites you mentioned, because since I was stopped I've been wondering if a speed limit decrease of 20mph within about 15 yards is reasonable. I mean, in terms of traffic laws as well as the laws of physics. I've meant to look into it, but the whole situation left me so irritated and disgusted that I don't like to think about it much.

[/sig]

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 6:06 PM

IREMISST

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I've meant to look into it, but the whole situation left me so irritated and disgusted that I don't like to think about it much.

That's what they WANT you to do...They give you a while to pay so that by the end of it they hope you are so tired of being irritated that you will just pay your fine and move on. I would love to join a society that has the sole purpose of fighting speeding tickets for it's members and would gladly pay several times what a ticket would be worth, I just don't have resources or support to fight one on my own...

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 7:16 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Oh no, I went to court over it. I had to, because I was accused of having no insurance, so I had to wave all my proof under their noses until they dropped that charge, and dropped my speeding ticket down to something silly like failure to signal.
The insurance card I had with me was out of date by less than a week, and the cop acted as though I was a felon. I mean, literally. I was charged with 'felony lack of insurance' for something that the Registration Office says is a misdemeanor at most. That was part of my annoyance. Other things just piled on from there. It was, to put it mildly, an ordeal.
I always put my new insurance card in my wallet the moment I get it now, even if the 'effective' date is a month or two away. Fuck that noise, I'm never going through that again.

[/sig]

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 8:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
This is really horrifying. How are we to hold corrupt officers accountable when the prime source of evidence of same is being deemed inadmissible? What the hell are they playing at? "Oh, we're getting caught being assholes more and more often, we better do something about it." Disgusting.

Frem, did I ever tell you about my traffic enforcement encounter? They really like those middle of the night pounces, don't they?
I'll check those sites you mentioned, because since I was stopped I've been wondering if a speed limit decrease of 20mph within about 15 yards is reasonable. I mean, in terms of traffic laws as well as the laws of physics. I've meant to look into it, but the whole situation left me so irritated and disgusted that I don't like to think about it much.

Heard about that from Kwicko, so you'd have to ask him for the specifics, but NO, that kind of speed trap with a drop of 15 or more miles per hour is very illegal.

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 9:02 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Good to know, thanks Byte.
It's permanently set up that way on the highway heading into either end of Longmont, Colorado. There's a 65mph sign, then a 55, then a 45, all lined up in a pretty row. Unless my eyes are totally deceiving me, it's not much more than 15 or 20 yards from the first one to the last. If I ever drive there again I'll try to clock it on my odometer and take pictures.
Rotten bastards.

[/sig]

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Thursday, June 3, 2010 11:30 PM

You have NO idea.
(Note: all of this is worth a watch, my word on it.)

This is what happened to local activist Brett Darrow when he decided not to be a meek little jackboot licker at one of those check points.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/15/1522.asp
Once they realize they're on candid camera, their attitude changes real quick.

Of course, soon after that vid made the rounds, THIS happened.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1961.asp

And they learn not a goddamn thing cause they're still rolling right along.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/31/3161.asp

And it's THIS, crap like the attitude displayed by the officer in the second incident particularly - every day, all day, every where, here, PG county MD, Baltimore MD, Houston, Detroit, everywhere *I* have ever been the only difference is that by turning the cameras on THEM we catch em at it now, this isn't a "few bad apples", this isn't "isolated incidents", this is WHO THEY ARE.

And they do not want people to know that, hence, the desire to ban the cameras pointed at THEM, while rolling tape directed at YOU, tape which they control, and can make "go missing" (in fact, officer Kuhnleins dashcam suffered a convenient and suspicious "malfunction" on the night he decided to threaten Mr. Darrow.) or edit to please before handing over, if they can be bothered to do so at all.

Screw that, time to expose these cretins for what they are, and then respond by cutting their damn budgets till they either shape up, or the communities can then afford to pay someone who WILL answer for their behavior.

And this ticket income, forfeiture, nu-uh, that's glorified theft, any proceeds to the general fund, NOT the police budget, cause that's just an express ride vehicle straight down corruption street.

ETA: And NO, no more police investigating police, fuck no, hell no, civilian review board drawn from the community in question with a hotline to a Fed from the USDOJ if the cops start fuckin with and intimidating them, PERIOD.

And you think alla that was awful - I got pulled over on 3/301 South in northern VA once by a cop who was the same bitch-bastard who used to harrass me and the other kids goin to my school when we were little teeniboppers, he eventually got fired from that department (the fifth one he'd been fired from) for beating a councilmans son so badly it left him brain damaged, and mostly he got away with that cause of that whole youth-are-scum attitude, which was even worse back then.

Well, as most officers do, when fired they don't really get any black mark, so they move to the next department, and the next, and the next...

I guess northern VA was payin a prime rate or something, cause this asshole pulls me over on a deserted stretch of road miles and miles from anywhere at all, accuses me of speeding (I wasn't) and then plays the "I smell dope!" game and decides he wants to "search" (i.e. plant some shit in) my car, to which I decide, he ain't gonna do that, cause I too have realized we're far, far from anywhere at all.

He wound up in the back of his squaddie with some bumps and bruises, eventually it came down to him swingin his nightstick at me - and I got on HIS radio and called in a supervisor, who came pretty close to shootin me, but eventually realized that if I *had* assaulted the guy for nefarious reasons I certainly wouldn't be still there, and if I wanted him hurt or dead, he woulda been.

Fucker chased me outta his county too, two feet off my rear bumper every inch of the way, cause he was REAL pissed, but also REAL alone, up against someone who'd already handed one of his bullyboys his ass, so he just wanted rid of me, with an admonishment to never, EVER come back.

FYI - Do not, DO NOT EVER, pull over for a cop in a deserted area with no witnesses, you have the right to reach a place of safety, put your hazards on and go slow, and also now in this day of cellphones you can call 911 as well, even if your phone is off the network, so long as you got power to the battery, it WILL connect.

The cop might get pissed off about it, mind you, so be prepared for that...
http://www.startribune.com/local/east/38980869.html
But you will be in the right, and more importantly, you'll be ALIVE to make an issue of it, something which, if caught out alone in the dark by one of these goons... you never know.

-Frem

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Friday, June 4, 2010 2:18 AM

Annnnd speaking of double standards...

Remember I told y'all I was watching the case where a CCW holder had a stray bullet from his weapon kill someone ?
http://detnews.com/article/20100604/METRO/6040384/1409/

Quote:
The warrant issued today by the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office charges Bell with manslaughter, which is punishable by up to 15 years in prison, and discharge of a weapon at a building, which carries a sentence of up to four years.

Now, the police officer who's bullet negligently killed Aiyana ?

If he ain't charged with the same, or more, imma raise up a shitstorm tsunami on them, holding this case up as an example and ramming it down their throats.

And since there WAS no physical contact with the grandmother, and they lied, then arrested her to support their lie - follow that up with making false offical statements, and false arrest besides.

But no, they'll "find no evidence of wrongdoing" likely enough, and instead of helping keep the lid on, I might just help blow it off - cause it's startin to look like that *is* what it's gonna take.

I really, REALLY don't want that to happen, but word on the street is that the guys the michigan state police chased around that neighborhood with half the goddamn force, shot at, hit, clobbered and arrested (along with a local activist who told them their little touchdown party was conduct unbecoming) - well, those were the guys who had the video of the police immediately trying to cover it up, not that it was the only copy, but it does explain why they used a dozen cruisers and shot up the neighborhood for "reckless driving", and also why the case utterly fucking DISAPPEARED.

There's NO record of it, and if I hadn't spotted that buried on the back page news clip, not a word woulda reached the masses, neither.

They oughta pray, pray really hard, that if the lid blows off and we do get a riot around here Gus doesn't follow through with his plan to be on the scene offering "helpful advice" with a megaphone....

How do you be a good guy, when the only way to stem the tide of abuse is villainry ?

-Frem

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Friday, June 4, 2010 2:29 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
they want it all their way

How long before they deputize blackwater ?
(or backwater as iPad renamed them)

I can see the whole system as having a free reign to create its own money and to fund this situation endlessly. Of course, it's not just the confiscation, it's large scale drug running, but I can see this drawing into the taproot ultimately, and then their cash becomes infinite.

Of course, I never thought about it this way, there's a ton of payola ticket scams around here, but someone set those policies up, not because they were morons and didn't realize the level of abuse that it would lead to... They wanted this result.

The traffic stop has become the soviet checkpoint.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 2:35 AM

DREAMTROVE

Wulf

If cameras are the new guns, then does this become a second amendment issue?

I have trouble with the 2A in large part because I don't know where it ends. It's definitely arms, not guns, but where's my right to a a personal nuke?

It would make sensed to me if the law was defined as "the right to bear arms for the personal or collective defense of citizens or groups" or something like that, to say, yes, you defend yourself with your guns, and id like to see something that says the Waco compound had the right to defend itself... But I don't know of any law that says any of this.

I see this as cut and dried, the camera here is being used as an instrument of self defense.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 2:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
:o

What? That's... What? Why do they get a privilege other citizens don't get?

You mean like wearing a police uniform, driving a marked cruiser, pulling people over, investigating crime, or having a fancy swipe card to get into the secure part of the City building?

As a Prosecutor in Ohio I can carry a gun (but our boss wont let us). I have a fancy gold badge that gets me out of speeding tickets and reduced hotel rates. I also have the fancy swipe card...but your right, I wish I had a light bar on my Honda to let me go 90mph on the way home from work...er...I mean to travel at a reasonable speed on official law enforcement business.

If you want to use a camera, however, I have no problem with that. If an officer is trained properly and shows professional respect, as ours most often do, then a video is nothing to fear. If they make a huge mistake or act in an inappropriate fashion, then I damn well want to know about it so I can protect my City from liability by either getting them proper training, discipline, or firing their asses (video would help at the union arbitration hearing).

Plus videos can be damned funny.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 4:29 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Moral of the story?

Record them anyway. Try and upload it directly to a server at home in real time (can you do that?)

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Friday, June 4, 2010 5:18 AM

Quote:
If you want to use a camera, however, I have no problem with that. If an officer is trained properly and shows professional respect, as ours most often do, then a video is nothing to fear. If they make a huge mistake or act in an inappropriate fashion, then I damn well want to know about it so I can protect my City from liability by either getting them proper training, discipline, or firing their asses (video would help at the union arbitration hearing).

Neat. Then looks like we agree about the cameras and necessity for proper conduct.

And I meant "special privileges under the law," but yeah.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 5:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Moral of the story?

Record them anyway. Try and upload it directly to a server at home in real time (can you do that?)

On that, we are agreed.

I'd like to have a real-time link-up via a wireless connection, and have things recording, just in case I ever need the video for backup.

And a sticker on the car stating that for quality assurance purposes, it may be recorded. Hey, if it's good enough for Dell's technical support... :)

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Neat. Then looks like we agree about the cameras and necessity for proper conduct.

One place most folks disagree about is 'proper conduct'. Some hate police so much that they paint with a very wide brush stories of routine abuse. Like unfounded cries of racism and bias it only serves to cloud the issues so that legitimate grievences get less investigation.

Take PN for example. He'll claim abuse just because he was pulled over and issued a simple speeding violation by an officer that was professional and had a legitimate beef. He'll cry so long and so loudly that, like the boy who cried wolf, folks simply stop listening. Now if he had a video of a police officer stopping him for no reason and beating him half to death in front of a busload of nuns and an impartial team of UN observers...I'd still not believe it and support charging him with a crime while making him pay to get his blood cleaned off the officers uniform. Thats on him and his chicken little jew-hating anti-govt crazytalk.

My officers, as seen in countless DUI videos put up with tremendous amounts of abuse with courtesy and professionalism that I doubt I'd show under the circumstances. I note for the record that my experiance is limited to those couple hundred officers I've worked with. Out of that couple hundred I can think of two...and only two bad apples both of whom are now in another line of work. I suspect the ratio is pretty much the same overall with some exceptions to the norm. Thats why I always give officers the benefit of the doubt until contrary evidence arises.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:50 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

So, in order to make sure that things are fair and things were done properly (while also protecting citizens rights to privacy) I think that every police encounter should be videotaped by the citizen.

A copy can be kept by the citizen (uploaded real time) while a copy can be handed over to the police.

Any discrepancy in video would be handled by a third party.

How does that sound?

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
How does that sound?

You need to do it in such a way that it does not interfere with the police.

For example. Police video is done by a camera mounted on the cruiser. The officer does little to operate the camera, mostly just the on and off.

If you want to spend five minutes fumbling to get your camera working and then stick it in the officers face while he's trying to conduct his investigation is not reasonable.

I note for the record that the day is coming when every police encounter will be recorded by one or more cameras in police control but available for inspection by defense attorneys. I've seen the little cameras they want to put on the officers themselves. We can't afford them yet, but I bet we have them in ten years. Storage is another problem. We'd record every traffic stop but we don't have the hard drive space.

In short, technology will soon solve your problem, then you can fuss about us 'altering' the video or how unfair it is for us to record you.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:03 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"In short, technology will soon solve your problem, then you can fuss about us 'altering' the video or how unfair it is for us to record you."

So you would follow the British model?

I disagree. I think the power of the video MUST reside in the hands of the citizen.

Sorry dude, but I don't recognize authority in the same way you do.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I disagree. I think the power of the video MUST reside in the hands of the citizen.

Sorry dude, but I don't recognize authority in the same way you do.

Cops are citzens...some are even people.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Moral of the story?

Record them anyway. Try and upload it directly to a server at home in real time (can you do that?)

You can, that is what Darrow did, and it's a smart thing cause it prevents the on-scene officers from seizing and destroying the footage, although you might lose a camera when someone puts a jackboot through it.

Although, I would advise somewhere other than your home as the drop-off point, cause if you dig deeper into the Maryland case here, you'll see they immediately got a search warrant and trashed his place to get the footage and equipment, so it's better to have the data sent to a seperate location and then keep your damn mouth shut about where it is.

Indymedia got that kind of treatment so regularly from the US authorities during the last administration (having the servers seized to shut them up, destroy the evidence, and if returned at all, wrecked beyond use) that the "servers" stateside are mostly just terminals, and the actual data is kept far overseas.

Oh, and Mikey ?
"For quality assurance purposes, this call may be recorded.."
You know, that can ALSO be interpreted as express permission to do so, legally - I know, I've done it, and the 14th district agreed that the statement in question can legally be interpreted both ways, and if any party has stated intent to record, all parties present have that right.

Just so you know.
(Which also means if the cops have a cruiser cam goin, you have every right to have your own camera running)

Hero, I do not trust the police not to lose or mess with the footage, it's a rather common problem - although I will point out one place the mini cameras are doing some good.

I dunno if they all have em, but some of the Wayne county cops have a taser equipped with a camera, which has done wonders for their accountability cause turning it off or disabling it is a pretty big no-no, as is tampering with the weapons sealed internal counter.

One of em recently got in trouble around here for disabling the camera prior to using it on someone under disputed conditions, not that he got anything but a slap on the wrist, but the presence of a camera and sealed internal counter has become a rather strong check against abuse of the taser units - and while they are not yet required to account for a discharge to the degree they are with a firearm, having to account for it at all is a step in a positive direction.

The big problem, however, is that when the county prosecutor has everyone from the mayor on down to the meter maids by the balls, and happens to be corrupt as hell, the only way to resolve it is federal involvement, but that's fallen on it's face cause andy the bullshitter thinks he's fuckin jack bauer and his little pack of boot lickers have been assisting, rather than prosecuting, the abuses.

Currently the feds have noticed, and they're trying to get him out of the position even if it means "promoting" him to some flashy, but powerless, position somewhere the hell else.

In the meantime though, what it means is a low level guerilla war between the police and the community, with contract security being about the only reliable way of securing your neighborhood, since neighborhood watch folk are no more immune to corruption, racism, or personal vendetta than police are.

Yes, I come down really, really hard on the cops, they SHOULD be held to a higher, not a lower, standard, and they're not and do not even meet the bare minimum professionalism required in any service profession, much less law enforcement - and imma bust their damn chops till they can man up and act like adults instead of grade school bullies on the playground.

Not all of that is malice though, a good chunk of it is that they have insufficient training, and what they DO have is aggressive, militarized "situation control" which in fact escalates most situations needlessly - they NEED more training in proper use of a firearm (the better trained with their weapons they are, the more confident they are and LESS, not more, likely to be blazing away in fear when they run low on options), but most especially, critically, they need to revamp the training towards conflict resolution and de-escalation.

Much of the time an officers presence, which with the right training, could chill a situation, and resolve it BEFORE it gets out of hand - instead escalates it, and when the ego of a poorly trained officer gets involved, it winds up being a "regrettable incident" or even a firefight.

That's bullshit, Hero, and a waste of your time, the courts time, and the tax money of all involved - every time a cop escalates a situation he SHOULD have been able to mitigate or resolve, it costs us all, and frankly I would rather invest the money in better training than payin out the goddamn lawsuits.

But first, we *have* to get these "goons" who are drunk on power and privledge, who think they're some kinda petty lords, OUT of the uniform, AWAY from the badge, and that means holding them accountable for acting like a goddamn mafia, cause they DO.

And so I treat them like one.

-Frem

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Friday, June 4, 2010 1:00 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

See Frem?

Even a "Kowardly Klansman" can (kan) watch your back from now and again...

:)P

Ok, I gotta bounce for the weekend.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:15 AM