Isreal attacks Turkish aid convoy. by oldenglanddry

America loves a winner!

This was no flotilla of " peace ".

The Islamic radicals - the Turks - went specifically to break the blockade, and nothing more.

They brandished weapons ( metal bars and broken glass ) well before any IDF troops were on board.

What sort of "peace" activist arm themselves like that, before a fight, which they egged on ?

This entire event was orchestrated for the explicit intent to make Israel look like the bad guy.

They aren't, not even by a long shot.

Glenn Beck me all you want, the facts are irrefutable.

"Israel is presumed guilty until it's found guilty, "

Truer words were never spoken.

** ANYONE ** who thinks the Fed Gov't has done " all it possibly can " in response the Gulf Coast oil disaster, or who thinks Obama isn't lying to us all - I have no use for you. You deserve all the animosity and any vulgar "tone" directed your way. ( Anthony , that includes you, buddy. Sorry )

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
This was no flotilla of " peace ".

The Islamic radicals - the Turks - went specifically to break the blockade, and nothing more.

They brandished weapons ( metal bars and broken glass ) well before any IDF troops were on board.

What sort of "peace" activist arm themselves like that, before a fight, which they egged on ?

This entire event was orchestrated for the explicit intent to make Israel look like the bad guy.

They aren't, not even by a long shot.

Dearest Rappy,

Stories are circulating that at least three of the slain Turks were self-styled shahids, or martyrs, who boasted of their lust for death and hatred of the Joos, etc....I am not surprised, but would hesitate to let the presence of a few crazed bronze-age holdovers characterize the entire flotilla, or make Israel's actions reasonable by default.

I agree with you on the general principle that the flotilla was designed, at least in part, as a stunt to challenge the blockade.. Thats as far as I'll go, inasmuch as agreeing with a known conversative furry is very awkward for me.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:

I agree with you on the general principle that the flotilla was designed, at least in part, as a stunt to challenge the blockade.. Thats as far as I'll go, inasmuch as agreeing with a known conversative furry is very awkward for me.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:24 PM

Ah...I recognize the well-worn phrase. But I don't follow you. You forget, I'm rather dim. Whose history are you referring to? Is this a veiled referrence to the holocaust?

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 1:57 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Ah...I recognize the well-worn phrase. But I don't follow you. You forget, I'm rather dim. Whose history are you referring to? Is this a veiled referrence to the holocaust?

I'd rather use the Excalibur version of the line, but to the point.

World public opinion is being formed here, on purpose. Accusing the Jews of all sorts of atrocities, inhumanity,... just like the photo shopped pics from the '06 war w/ Hezbollah.... Notice how, almost on queue, there were world wide "demonstrations " , condemning Israel for the incident. The chants were nearly identical, regardless of what city the marches took place.

As if they had been scripted....

To the point... this is a repeat of the 1930's... blaming the Jews for all the world's problems.

Here we go again.

( and yes, the raid was poorly thought up and executed. The IDF isn't blameless here. Even though this was a set up, the IDF should have known better )

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 3:04 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I just read this on CNN:

“An attempt by Israel to deliver the goods from the flotilla that was stopped Monday was rejected, the Israel Defense Forces said Wednesday.

Palestinian sources confirmed that trucks that arrived from Israel at the Rafah terminal at the Israel-Gaza border were barred from delivering the aid.”

It is odd that needed aid would be refused.

This makes me believe that the whole routine is a political game, and not at all about the aid in question. If so, it is a game that Israel is currently losing.

I remember there was once a provocateur who led thousands of protesters in a blatant, public rejection of an unpopular law. He marched his people defiantly towards the sea in an effort to smuggle contraband into the country. The government who had outlawed the contraband felt that they would be cast in a negative light if they enforced the ban, and so they backed off I wonder if something similar is going on here. Of course, the historical provocateur believed in nonviolence, and endured indignity and beatings. Our modern copycats seem to be willing to engage in violence.

Still, I wonder who be victorious. With more aid convoys enroute to Gaza, Israel’s response will tell all.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 3:52 PM

CATPIRATE

KM. Well I am jew lover. And even though they don't assimilate it makes them seem strange in other lands. Now that area is the unholiness place on earth. That is why Jesus showed up to make a change in their world. Ya know the jews outlasted Babylon, Rome, and the Nazis. They got away from Mose's law and look what happen. Is the US gonna bulldoze Manhattan Island for the indians. The Palestinians are always going to be the jews burden. Israel has to what it has to do.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 5:34 PM

ANTIMASON

you know.. ive never been to Israel. this may sound calouse, but its my opinion that we have no more responsibility for what happens there, then we do in Darfur or any other impoverished or war torn area. i personally dont care what happens in that region, what Israel or the Arabs do, so long as we are not involved. i do not believe in allying ourselves with anyone, just as our founding fathers advocated

i personally believe that we should not only distance ourselves from Israel, but our European allies, and the entire UN. stop giving aid to all of them, Israel included, and quit giving aid to the Arab nations around them(whom we give 5x as much).

im christian, i know im not an antisemite. if Israel truly feels threatened by Hamas, or Ahmadinijad, let them respond! its their right. but if Israel commits an act of aggression, we should not be held liable for it- they do not have the right to drag us into the middle of every little conflict they find themselves in. we do not have the right to violate the liberties of anyone, whether by our own volition or on behalf of another entity. this is why we should have no allies, especially unconditionally.

if Israel(or any other nation) is victimized, and they ask us for help in defense, then our congress has the obligation to go to the American people, and ask for an up or down vote, whether we as Americans, want to go to war in their defense. thats one thing. but they do not have the right to command our service in their defense, nor do American political leaders have the right to obligate AMericans to go into conflict in foreign lands without our consent. all in all, we should just stay out of these things..

Israel is perfectly capable of defending themselves, and i think we ought to let them.

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[B
I'd rather use the Excalibur version of the line, but to the point.

World public opinion is being formed here, on purpose. Accusing the Jews of all sorts of atrocities, inhumanity,... just like the photo shopped pics from the '06 war w/ Hezbollah.... Notice how, almost on queue, there were world wide "demonstrations " , condemning Israel for the incident. The chants were nearly identical, regardless of what city the marches took place.

As if they had been scripted....

To the point... this is a repeat of the 1930's... blaming the Jews for all the world's problems.

Here we go again.

( and yes, the raid was poorly thought up and executed. The IDF isn't blameless here. Even though this was a set up, the IDF should have known better )

There's an infinite number of reasons to hate the Jews--or at least to dislike Israel.

If I were European, I suspect I would hate Israel because 1) it gives me a chance to apologize for my own brutal, colonial past 2) while kicking Jews (for a good cause!).

Alas, I am self-loathing Jew and no ardent suppporter of Israel. I dislike any state that is invested in a strict religious identity. But I also dislike cant and bullshit. No doubt that Israel has a bloody past and created a lot of problems for itself, but the attention and spite its actions generate are disproportionate. Is it just me, or is Israel a proxy for the religious and geo-political tensions of our time?

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 7:26 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Mincing,

I think our massive support for Israel causes a feeling that we are responsible for anything they do. This is not only the feeling in other countries, but also within our own.

So when they level a city block, or shoot up an aid shipment, it's our money or equipment that enabled the action.

I think we care far less about governments we don't supply massive support for. I'm with the policy of ceasing aid to Israel. They are the most technologically advanced military in the region. They're small, but they're not the underdog anymore. I want to stop feeling responsible for the continuing skirmishes of an ancient war.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:42 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

By the way, one of those "radicals" that was killed was an American citizen.

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/03/american-citizen-killed-
on-turkish-flotilla/?test=latestnews

He was shot once in the chest and four times in the head. I guess he wouldn't obey orders and stay down, so they had to keep shooting him in the head at close range.

How would y'all feel if this was an American citizen trying to enter Iran, and the Iranian forces board the ship far out to see in international waters, and started executing American citizens? Would that change the equation?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:46 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Said it before, will say it again..

The Jews learned very well from the Nazis.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:54 AM

NPR and BBC have reported that several of the slain, including the US citizen, have...questionable ties to put it politely. No doubt the humanitarian aim of the flotilla was noble. A shame these violent gave the Israelis a chance to act like asses (which they seem to never refuse). Really, this has become a discussion of proportionality, because there is no denying the shitty intent of some of the "activists." And now were locked in the same dreary accusations that Israel always inspires.

In other news, I'm organizing a Freedom Convoy to the Kurdish area in Northern Turkey. There may, or may not be, members of the PKK in the convoy.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Said it before, will say it again..

The Jews learned very well from the Nazis.

What a brilliant, and brave, observation.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
NPR and BBC have reported that several of the slain, including the US citizen, have...questionable ties to put it politely. No doubt the humanitarian aim of the flotilla was noble. A shame these violent gave the Israelis a chance to act like asses (which they seem to never refuse). Really, this has become a discussion of proportionality, because there is no denying the shitty intent of some of the "activists." And now were locked in the same dreary accusations that Israel always inspires.

In other news, I'm organizing a Freedom Convoy to the Kurdish area in Northern Turkey. There may, or may not be, members of the PKK in the convoy.

Well, if you die, I'm sure someone in the Turkish military will say you got what you deserved.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
NPR and BBC have reported that several of the slain, including the US citizen, have...questionable ties to put it politely. No doubt the humanitarian aim of the flotilla was noble. A shame these violent gave the Israelis a chance to act like asses (which they seem to never refuse). Really, this has become a discussion of proportionality, because there is no denying the shitty intent of some of the "activists." And now were locked in the same dreary accusations that Israel always inspires.

In other news, I'm organizing a Freedom Convoy to the Kurdish area in Northern Turkey. There may, or may not be, members of the PKK in the convoy.

Well, if you die, I'm sure someone in the Turkish military will say you got what you deserved.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

If I had a point, you wouldve just proven it for me. Think the rest of the world would care?

Free Kurdistan!

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:35 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Free America.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 1:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
NPR and BBC have reported that several of the slain, including the US citizen, have...questionable ties to put it politely. No doubt the humanitarian aim of the flotilla was noble. A shame these violent gave the Israelis a chance to act like asses (which they seem to never refuse). Really, this has become a discussion of proportionality, because there is no denying the shitty intent of some of the "activists." And now were locked in the same dreary accusations that Israel always inspires.

In other news, I'm organizing a Freedom Convoy to the Kurdish area in Northern Turkey. There may, or may not be, members of the PKK in the convoy.

Well, if you die, I'm sure someone in the Turkish military will say you got what you deserved.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

If I had a point, you wouldve just proven it for me. Think the rest of the world would care?

Free Kurdistan!

While supplies last!

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Friday, June 4, 2010 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Free America.

With purchase.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 4:46 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Said it before, will say it again..

The Jews learned very well from the Nazis.

What the hell does that even mean ? Seriously.

Did the gypsies learn as well ? What about the homosexuals ? Or the disabled ? Did they learn as well, or did the Jews simply grasp being gassed, shot, experimented on and shoved into ovens far better than the rest ?

I've heard this said by others, and just wanted to clarify as to what you mean by such a statement.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:12 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

It's a basically insane statement, as far as I'm concerned. But it doesn't surprise me.

They're at it again, by the way:

Quote:
For the second time this week, Israeli naval commandos seized aid headed for the Gaza Strip, but Saturday's action had a peaceful ending.

The Israeli military said it boarded the Irish-owned MV Rachel Corrie 22 miles (35 kilometers) off the Gaza coast with the compliance of the crew. The cargo ship loaded with humanitarian aid had been heading for Gaza on Saturday in defiance of an Israeli blockade.

Israel said its naval blockade is in place to stop weaponry from reaching militants in Gaza intent on attacking Israel. But many people are incensed that the three-year blockade -- imposed after Hamas took over Gaza -- has deepened poverty in the Palestinian territory. According to the United Nations, 80 percent of Gaza's population depends on food aid.

The voyage of the Rachel Corrie on the heels of the raid put the international community on edge until the events unfolded peacefully on Saturday.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel "used the exact same procedure" aboard the Rachel Corrie as it did on the Mavi Marmara ship, where the raid occurred.

"Today we saw the difference between a sail of peace activists, with whom we don't agree but honor their right to express a different opinion, and a hate sail organized by terrorism-supporting violent extremists," he said.

Free Gaza Movement spokeswoman Mary Hughes sharply criticized Israel's seizure of the ship.

"This is unacceptable to be happening in international waters," she said.

The ship was taken to Ashdod, Israel, where its cargo will be offloaded and screened. People on board will be processed by immigration officials and flown to their countries of origin as soon as possible, Israel said.

As the ship was proceeding to Gaza, the Israeli military said it sent several radio transmissions telling the vessel to change its course before boarding the ship.

A crew member on board the Rachel Corrie who spoke to CNN earlier Saturday said three Israeli ships had been following.

Activists on the ship had said they would surrender peacefully if Israeli forces boarded the boat.

Israel had offered to deliver the aid to Gaza, but passengers rejected the offer, according to a statement from Michael Martin, Ireland's minister for foreign affairs.

Organizers say the ship was carrying 550 tons of cement to help rebuild schools, homes and other buildings destroyed in Gaza.

Irish Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Maguire, who was aboard the ship, said Friday that the Rachel Corrie was also carrying "tons" of writing materials donated by Norway, pharmaceuticals and medical equipment -- including wheelchairs donated by Scotland -- and toys.

"If, as is their stated intention, the Israeli government intercepts the Rachel Corrie, the government demands that it demonstrate every restraint," said Martin. He called on Israel to lift its blockade.

Monday's violence continues to spark official and grassroots rage in governments and streets inside and outside the Middle East, and it has led to even further deterioration of the relationship between Israel and Turkey, the one-time close allies who have grown apart over the Gaza crisis.

In Istanbul, Turkey's largest city, thousands took to the streets to protest Israel's actions in Gaza. Protests were also staged in London, England, and Paris, France.

At the United Nations, the Security Council called for an inquiry into the flotilla raid, and the Human Rights Council voted for a probe, but Israel said it alone -- and not an international entity -- should be investigating.

The MV Rachel Corrie was named for a 23-year-old American woman who was killed in Gaza in 2003 while attempting to keep IDF forces from bulldozing the home of a Palestinian.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/05/gaza.flotilla/index.html?hpt
=T2

I'm getting really, really sick of these assholes, and really, really ashamed of our backing of them...

Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Niki, although Wulf is a bonehead, that one was an observation many folk have made, that Israels conduct toward Palestine is eerily similar to Germanys toward Poland, at one time, much like an abused child unknowingly emulating that abuse upon their own children, you know ?

As for the aid shipments being seized by Israel - well, as often as they've been caught out dumping the supplies into the sea, burning them, or just outright stealing them, there's a certain reluctance to actually trust them to deliver any of it to Palestine, that being one reason the activists are being so hardnosed about it.

Do you remember what Nigeria did to Biafra ?

Most younger folk don't, I wouldn't either save that the original collective of people who founded Eagle/A-1, who had just come out of some involvement in that, the Biafran "air force" consisted of armed civvie junk and a pair of A-26 Invaders which didn't last out the year, along with whatever mercs they could find willing to fly anything they could get their hands on at almost suicidal odds in order to suppress Nigerian air cover so they could get food supplies in, and they still lost a damned lot of those planes.

It takes a special kind of crazy bastard to fly a DC-3 full of food and medical supplies into a place like that, at least, more than once, and two of the guys who did it were the founders of Eagle/A-1, who personally witnessed the horrors of a starvation blockade from point blank range.

That's also where doctors without borders came from, if I recall correctly, but anyhow, knowing and working closely with folks who saw that kind of thing happen makes me a special kind of hateful to those who would practice it - how soon the bitter lessons of history are forgotten, neh ?

-Frem

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:57 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I'm getting really, really sick of these assholes, ...

Yeah, me to. Those Islamic nut jobs are a blight on humanity.

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 7:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't think it has anything to do with the Nazis. Do we really believe the Nazis dreamed it up all on their own? I think societies were doing similar things throughout history; I just think the Jew/Nazi comparison is just too easy and people jump to it.

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 11:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, one reason I don't mind that comparison being out there so much, ponder this...

Eighty years from now, Palestine being all paranoid and doin that shit to some other country ?

We gotta break the chain of abuse before it strangles us all.

-F

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 12:27 PM