Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Which means it's just two bad dogs deciding who is alpha. Is this what it might look like when a victory isn't a victory?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:


A law is an announcement about the official stance of things, and the official tolerance of situations. It gives people some kind of recourse to some kind of authority. Without the law, who do you appeal to? Fight guerilla tactics the rest of your life in an unbalanced war? With a law, you can pursue justice within a system. Laws may not matter as much as I'd like, but they do matter enough to make some kind of difference. I haven't seen a colored water fountain in a long while.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:


A law is an announcement about the official stance of things, and the official tolerance of situations. It gives people some kind of recourse to some kind of authority. Without the law, who do you appeal to? Fight guerilla tactics the rest of your life in an unbalanced war? With a law, you can pursue justice within a system. Laws may not matter as much as I'd like, but they do matter enough to make some kind of difference. I haven't seen a colored water fountain in a long while.

---

Right! How about the LAW 460,000 illegals are breaking in AZ right now?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
At this point, the Federal government needs to be disolved. Period.

The purpose of the Fed gov was to be a loose alighnment of the states. A way of rallying all of us when things got bad.

Now? They want to be kings.

Ooops. They've stepped and squatted over the people long enough.

Btw, its called the "Battle Hymn of the REPUBLIC" for a reason.

But sure... ignore me. Say I'm a "teabagger". Refuse to see the clouds of revolution and war gathering on the horizon.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:


A law is an announcement about the official stance of things, and the official tolerance of situations. It gives people some kind of recourse to some kind of authority. Without the law, who do you appeal to? Fight guerilla tactics the rest of your life in an unbalanced war? With a law, you can pursue justice within a system. Laws may not matter as much as I'd like, but they do matter enough to make some kind of difference. I haven't seen a colored water fountain in a long while.

---

Right! How about the LAW 460,000 illegals are breaking in AZ right now?

---

I've never understood this line of reasoning. "They're breaking the law, so we can disregard any pretense of the rule of law as well!"

By this reasoning, you also get to torture people if you feel like it, because others do so.

I thought at some point America was supposed to stand for some ideal of a better way, a respect for all. Until we don't feel like it, I guess...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
How about it? People have equated the Arizona law with illegal immigrants, but to me it's not a law about illegal immigrants. It's a law about citizens. And it will continue to be a law about citizens for as long as citizens are required to have proof of citizenship on their person at all times, just in case.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Frem,

A law is an announcement about the official stance of things, and the official tolerance of situations. It gives people some kind of recourse to some kind of authority. Without the law, who do you appeal to? Fight guerilla tactics the rest of your life in an unbalanced war? With a law, you can pursue justice within a system. Laws may not matter as much as I'd like, but they do matter enough to make some kind of difference. I haven't seen a colored water fountain in a long while.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by pizmobeach:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:


A law is an announcement about the official stance of things, and the official tolerance of situations. It gives people some kind of recourse to some kind of authority. Without the law, who do you appeal to? Fight guerilla tactics the rest of your life in an unbalanced war? With a law, you can pursue justice within a system. Laws may not matter as much as I'd like, but they do matter enough to make some kind of difference. I haven't seen a colored water fountain in a long while.

---

Right! How about the LAW 460,000 illegals are breaking in AZ right now?

---

I've never understood this line of reasoning. "They're breaking the law, so we can disregard any pretense of the rule of law as well!"

By this reasoning, you also get to torture people if you feel like it, because others do so.

I thought at some point America was supposed to stand for some ideal of a better way, a respect for all. Until we don't feel like it, I guess...

---

The law being observed is the same law that applies equally to all nationalities from all countries - that's torture? Please, just a little more hyperbole.

Over 500,000+ people, human beings of all colors and from all countries and all religious backgrounds become LEGAL citizens of the US every year. Every year. They start their relationship with their new country with respect and respect - the blind kind that govs only can show - is generally returned. At least as much respect as the rest of us US Citizen sorry asses are given.

So yeah, when you say, "I've never understood this line of reasoning. "They're breaking the law, so we can disregard any pretense of the rule of law as well!" I agree, I don't understand that line of reasoning either.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:

"Overwhelmed"? Talk about hyperbole! Violent crime is DOWN in Arizona. Phoenix is in the TOP FOUR cities in the nation for having the LOWEST violent crime rates. They certainly don't seem to be "overwhelmed", by any stretch of the imagination. Illegals taken into custody have fallen off dramatically since Bush crashed the economy, from over a hundred thousand a few years ago, to fewer than 10,000 last year. "Overwhelmed"? I think the only one overwhelmed here is you, by the crap you're buying into and repeating here as if it were true.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, that "law being observed" is NOT the same law that applies to all nationalities and countries. You're wrong about that, and you should damned well know it. We cut special deals for certain groups, nationalities, and countries all the time. Cuba is the most prevalent. Vietnam got a sweetheart deal once we ruined their country and lost it to the communists for them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Niki2:

I sure wish you'd stop changing titles, PN. You don't "own" other people's threads, much as you'd like to, and it's wrong to change things into "PN Speak" just 'cuz you want to be heard.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:
Prince William County in Virginia passed an illegal immigration law similar to Arizona's in 2007. Here's a study done by the University of Virginia on it's implementation.

http://www.virginia.edu/surveys/Projects/2009/PWC09_Immigration/Interi
m%20report%20summary.ppt

"Keep the Shiny side up"

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

These phrases jumped up at me from the report:

"Policy was modified by BOCS in April 2008
Changed to cover only those physically arrested."

"Revised policy somewhat easier to implement than the original."

In fact, were the policy in Arizona changed in this way, I'd have little to say about it.

--Anthony

---

Quote:

---

8 USC 1304(e): Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties. Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both. 8 USC 1306 (a): Willful failure to register. Any alien required to apply for registration and to be fingerprinted in the United States who willfully fails or refuses to make such application or to be fingerprinted, and any parent or legal guardian required to apply for the registration of any alien who willfully fails or refuses to file application for the registration of such alien shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not to exceed $1,000 or be imprisoned not more than six months, or both.)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

As currently written, the law gives them the ability to bother folks for proof of legal status without an arrest, and that's my concern. I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's foolish to construct a law in such a way that it has ample room for abuse or even unintentional harm to the citizenry.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by antimason:
i just want to voice my opinion: GO ARIZONA!! do your thing..

when America was established, the 13 colonies joined the union as SOVEREIGN entities. they have every right to defend their citizenry from an invasion of foreign wellfare/entitlement recipients.. since the federal government forced most of these entitlements on the states to begin with. this is entirely an economic problem, created by government. in a truly free society, this wouldnt matter! but since we live in a collectivist society, this becomes an issue. and the bottom line is, a legal citizen has no obligation to subsidize a foreign national, period.

unfettered immigration wasnt a problem before the wellfare state. now, IT IS A PROBLEM! you collectivists and progressives out there cannot have it both ways- if you want this pervasive entitlement safety net, you cant allow anyone for whatever reason, to just up and settle in the country, without requiring citizenship(and the burdensome taxation that comes with it). otherwise, we will be subsidizing the lives of any 3rd world person who can make it onto our property! its unsustainable!

i want a society that thrives on economice freedom and the liberty to travel and trade and settle wherever. but that doesnt exist today- we have a government that sticks its nose in EVERYTHING, and over-regulates and controls so much of the economy that the private sector is insufficient to meet its demands! and remember, the government is funded by the people- government gets its money from the private sector! thats why we have a deficit, because we cant support the government we've created!

Arizona is just the first one to stand up to the federal government. the liberal, collectivist run states like CA and NY are going bankrupt, and we have many states, particualarly in the south and midwest states reaffirming their 10th amendment rights

nothing is sustainable under this current system. return to freemarkets and limited government, and we solve the problem overnight. that, and repeal the drug laws- finally let people be responsible for themselves! its symbolic. so long as i dont harm another person, government cant and will never be able to protect me from myself- without stealing my liberties(and yours) in the process. give it up!

we have to change our view of government

until then, Arizona has to play politics. and personally, im hoping Colorado follows suit

---