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I know very well my own answer, and have, after about the 3rd time, never asked it of myself again.

My wife says that people who willingly jump into harms way to help another are "selfish" in that they don't care about themselves or the family they have/might leave behind.

Its a long standing argument beween us. Her view being "Those who willingly die to save another dont believe they have anything to live for."

I disagree. But I've never been able to win the argument.

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Yeah, if she were looking at it practically, the fact that the insurance is all taken care of should help the situation. But, from the sounds of it, she really loves her some Wulf and no amount of money would make losing him any easier...

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Something else to add: A good book that addresses the selfishness of man is Lord Jim by Joseph Conrad.

In this book, the main character begins by selfishly preserving himself instead of trying to save ship's passengers under his care.

Then, when this cowardice is exposed, he selfishly flees from port to port, trying to escape his own infamy. In the process, he surrenders several positive relationships and friendships because he can not live with his shame.

Later, out of a selfish desire to reclaim his honor, he fights for native peoples in a far flung corner of the world.

Finally, he sacrifices his life out of selfishness, unwilling to preserve himself at the cost of others, and taste again the bitterness that started the tale.

His actions run the full gamut from cowardice to heroism, but never is he anything less than selfish. Throughout the whole book, he is on a quest to become the man he wants to be. Once he achieves that goal, he prefers to die as that man, rather than live as anything less. He leaves behind him loyal friends and a devoted wife, who can never quite forgive him for abandoning her when he had other options available.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Yep, a third type: those who fetishise the beauty of heroism and actually make a nuisance of themselves trying to act out hero fantasies...

Not putting that charge on you by the way, but it ought to be included. I agree with you actually, with your 'throwing yourself on a grenade' example of selflessness and heroism.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
... and all we have here is an argument to BE selfish.

Toss yourself on a grenade to save your friend... why, you are being selfish. You've "foolishly" given up your life, forgotten your family, and did did it all to serve some "simplistic" ideal of heroism.

Sure.

There will always be people who condemn heroic acts. It makes their truly selfish, immoral, evil, and spoiled lives all the more bearable.

There are 2 types of people (maybe more), those who see a heroic action for what it is (and maybe even praise it), and those who must condemn it in order to not hate themselves.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Sometimes being "heroic" is compusary. You HAVE to do it. Its not like someone chosing at the last second to help someone else (see Wesley Autrey) but more along the lines of..

Here is a dangerous situation with someone needing help. Noone was ever there to help you and goddamit but you are going to be there to help someone and fuck the consequences. Yes, I know, you hear that rational part of your mind telling you not to do it, that this could really hurt and at the worst kill you, but ignore that shit. You see that person, they need someone, and since noone else is standing up, and even if some are calling 911, you need to get in there and do something NOW. NOW, NOW. NOW.

And in the end you say fuck it and run into some stupid fire to help people who need it.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Of course, KPO...

We should just let the people who have "training" handle it...

Cus they are always there and always know what to do...

Yep. TRY and help someone... be a nusiance... it just gets in the way.


ETA: SURE! Let someone be raped in front of you, killed, whatever. Its not YOUR problem right? You called 911, and well those with training and guns and whatnot will handle it... forget the fact that you are THERE, NOW,... forget that even if you are not phycially imposing, doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING, could actually help... make a difference... nope.

WOuldnt want to be one of THOSE people... a nusciance, a person acting out some sort of hero fantasy... nope.

Better to watch (or leave cus you dont want to watch) as someone gets hurt, or killed...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Its this fucking mentality that I cant stand

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
KPO... do both have the same outcome?

Then they ARE the same

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nobody behaves heroically if it doesn't make them feel good about themselves, whatever the conscious motivation. JMHO.

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The Board of Governors: This seems a steep price for so small a service: to crush a powerless cripple.

Tan'elKoth: Doubly fools. He does have power. One power: the power to devote himself absolutely to a single goal, to be ruthless with himself and all else in its pursuit. It is the only power he needs - because, unlike the great mass of men, he is aware of this power, and he is willing, even happy, to use it.

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For some people, happiness comes easy- like breathing air. For others? happiness is more like breathing mud...

You are the ONLY person on this planet that can put in the effort it takes to make YOU happy. Only you can care enough for you to fix you.

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