How Can I Prove I am Not a Racist? by AURaptor

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Yes, I concur with Niki about Rappy's last post.Well put and entirely in keeping with the discussion. You see what can happen when the back biting ceases and we post to each other with a little respect and articulation?. Works wonders doesn't it?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Just giving an honest view on the situation, and not having to defend myself against partisan attacks, false claims and straw man arguments.

I agree, sure does make things run more smoothly 'round here.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

To clarify...

Quote:
I thought you were Hungarian(?) - just on one side of the family...?

No, hubby was born in Hungary. Dad was born in Poland. For a white dude brought up in a backward peasant culture, he was pretty (small "c") catholic.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Perhaps what I am really trying to say is that we are all discriminatory on a racial level to a certain degree.
Any middle ground here, Rappy?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

We discriminate, we prejudge... so yes, at a very basic physical ( racial ? - still not comfortable with that word, but I'll play along ) level, we are quick to pick up on visual differences which distinguish one group from another. It not only includes physical features, but the clothes we wear, the manner in which we speak, how we communicate ( via hand gestures, etc.. ) all sorts of things.

This was brought up ( man, I hate to even go here ) on what I think was the very first REAL WORLD, on MTV. Kevin, a black guy, and Julie, a white girl from the South, didn't exactly see eye to eye on some things. One key component was in how different each person acted while engaged in an argument. Kevin would get very loud ( from the perspective of Julie ) and stand very close to that person. In Julie's view, that crossed the line from "arguing " to intimidation. Kevin was simply doing what seemed normal to him, and wasn't overly trying to threaten anyone, but Julie saw the exact same thing through different eyes, and had quite a different take.

My point is, clearly we are quick to point out differences on a visual scale, but we also notice differences of culture as well. In fact, it's my personal view that culture goes further to distance people, even of like lineage , more than just race. From the Hutu and Tutsi tribes, to the Protestants and Catholics of N.Ireland, culture ( or religion, as it's practiced ) will pit same looking, same sounding, same damn near everything people against each other where otherwise it would seem they're pretty much the same.

How do we judge how advanced or " progressive" a culture is ? The Chinese were far more advanced than the Europeans for centuries. And the Egyptians predated the Greeks in all manner of technological prowess.... and yet many wrongly assume that mankind made some sort of quantum leap - when ? Only during the EUROPEAN Renaissance, as recent as a few hundred years ago.

Looking at a timeline of great human accomplishments, from art, to science and architecture, it's sorta laughable to think that white Europeans are the "height" of human evolution. Western European ancestors were likely living in huts or occupying caves when the Pyramids were being built. The Mongols were all but at western Europe's door step and ready to conquer the continent, until they called off their armies, and headed home. The halt came not due to some great defense by the Europeans, but from political infighting between the Mongols.

Anyway..... the idea that how much light one's skin reflects is any indicator of genetic superiority.... is, by all measure, absurd.

One sad development, around 20 years ago, was the devolution of the definitions in your statement, and in the overall arguement.
I learned then that Public Schools had begun teaching that the definition of Prejudice had been changed to mean the same as Discrimination.
Prior to that, Prejudice was the natural evolutionary instinct of survival, and only when the Prejudice was unfairly applied and actions were altered did Discrimination occur.
When walking down the street and you see a Bengal Tiger on the sidewalk, is you very first instinct to wonder, ooooh, that poor big kitty wandered off from the local zoo and must be looking for somebody to pet him, and scratch behind the ears? If so, your genetic code is worthy of the Darwin Awards as soon as you are removed from the gene pool. If you instead think, gee, I should get my kids, spouse, and then myself and anybody else less abled than me behind some protective barrier, and notify somebody trained to capture large carnivores, then congratulations, you have just used the Prejudging instinct to protect your genetic code and keep it in the gene pool. You will later have time to reflect, maybe it got out of the zoo, maybe it really is tamed, and seek evidence that it is not feral, wild, hungry, even though it remains obviously lethal.
When an elderly sees somebody in their path who is frequently known (to anybody who can read the newspapers) to carry weapons, habitually commit crimes, or otherwise endanger their lives or liberty, it is their Prejudice which alerts them to potential danger, and then it is their intellect and logic which must harness that information to determine whether discriminatory response is appropriate.
To deny that prejudice exists in every human of average or above intellect is just ridiculous delusion.

This post is in Chinese to these people. They can't come to grips with prejudice because they have below average intelligence making this whole concept alien thought.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh Kaneman, I see you're late to the party. Too bad! Everyone has already agreed that Rappys' post was insightful and valuable. But yours??? Not so much. Here, have some leftovers. I'm sure there are a few empty beer bottles you can pour together.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh Kaneman, I see you're late to the party. Too bad! Everyone has already agreed that Rappys' post was insightful and valuable. But yours??? Not so much. Here, have some leftovers. I'm sure there are a few empty beer bottles you can pour together.

Hey signy bitch.....Thanks for setting me straight, I hadn't noticed I was late. But no-thanks on the leftovers you can shove those empty bottles in your vagina...

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:24 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
If they constantly have IQ's lower than whites and Asians all over the world. How can it be anything other than genetics. Environment has been debunked.

Except by the majority of scientists.

Quote:
White poor inbred hillbillies still have a higher IQ. Read the post about what it takes to move out of Africa and shun gratification. It only makes sense that whites and Asians are smarter. And all the data proves this. I say it's genetic...You say what exactly? Are they lazy, is it my fault, or is it Bush's fault? Or are you going to tow the "it's years of oppression" line. That may sound plausible here in America, however there is a whole world of dumb blacks....Well, it's true........

In my country interestingly, white working class students form the bottom rung of the ladder:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/mar/27/schools.uk4

Quote:
Statistics from the Department for Children, Schools and Families, show just 15% of white working-class boys finish compulsory education with basic skills in reading, writing and arithmetic.

For black boys from similar backgrounds, the figure is 22%, while it is 29% for Asian boys and 52% for Chinese boys.

Some 20% of white working-class girls left with the basic skills.

So black students outperforming white students from comparable backgrounds - that must boggle your racist mind a little bit. One can also break down the black population into 'African' and 'West Indian' students, and there is a clear gap between them (maybe lending some credibility to the 'legacy of slavery' argument) - Black African girls outperform white boys I believe. The UK doesn't have a perfect racial history but I think it's a bit better than the U.S's, and that helps.

Here's some despicable, wooly, liberal obfuscation, filled with social and cultural excuse-making for the white working class:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article641312.ece

Quote:
Read the post about what it takes to move out of Africa and shun gratification. It only makes sense that whites and Asians are smarter. And all the data proves this. I say it's genetic...You say what exactly?

My view is of large human potential, across races. But that it requires an excellent education and culture to bring it out (as well as social comfort and harmony). Most of the black people in the world are living in underdeveloped Africa, or in other countries as historically oppressed minorities (sometimes both).

I don't know what tiresome conservative sermonising this 'shunning gratification' is, but I disagree with the conclusion that the difference is genetic - I think it was culture that evolved to meet new challenges, while African culture remained relatively stagnated. The culture evolved, and made fuller use of the human potential that was always there.

Think how much white society has been transformed going back to about 400 years ago, when we were all pretty much peasants. Civilisation and culture has made massive leaps and developments - have we have evolved from that backwards culture into a new race of genetic supermen in that short time? No, but the potential was always there. My view, at least.

And with IQ scores, get out of your head that they are measures of genetic intelligence, and see them as 'realised brain potential', or something along those lines.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
If they constantly have IQ's lower than whites and Asians all over the world. How can it be anything other than genetics. Environment has been debunked.

Except by the majority of scientists.

Quote:
White poor inbred hillbillies still have a higher IQ. Read the post about what it takes to move out of Africa and shun gratification. It only makes sense that whites and Asians are smarter. And all the data proves this. I say it's genetic...You say what exactly? Are they lazy, is it my fault, or is it Bush's fault? Or are you going to tow the "it's years of oppression" line. That may sound plausible here in America, however there is a whole world of dumb blacks....Well, it's true........

In my country interestingly, white working class students form the bottom rung of the ladder:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/mar/27/schools.uk4

Quote:
Statistics from the Department for Children, Schools and Families, show just 15% of white working-class boys finish compulsory education with basic skills in reading, writing and arithmetic.

For black boys from similar backgrounds, the figure is 22%, while it is 29% for Asian boys and 52% for Chinese boys.

Some 20% of white working-class girls left with the basic skills.

So black students outperforming white students from comparable backgrounds - that must boggle your racist mind a little bit. One can also break down the black population into 'African' and 'West Indian' students, and there is a clear gap between them (maybe lending some credibility to the 'legacy of slavery' argument) - Black African girls outperform white boys I believe. The UK doesn't have a perfect racial history but I think it's a bit better than the U.S's, and that helps.

Here's some despicable, wooly, liberal obfuscation, filled with social and cultural excuse-making for the white working class:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article641312.ece

Quote:
Read the post about what it takes to move out of Africa and shun gratification. It only makes sense that whites and Asians are smarter. And all the data proves this. I say it's genetic...You say what exactly?

My view is of large human potential, across races. But that it requires an excellent education and culture to bring it out (as well as social comfort and harmony). Most of the black people in the world are living in underdeveloped Africa, or in other countries as historically oppressed minorities (sometimes both).

I don't know what tiresome conservative sermonising this 'shunning gratification' is, but I disagree with the conclusion that the difference is genetic - I think it was culture that evolved to meet new challenges, while African culture remained relatively stagnated. The culture evolved, and made fuller use of the human potential that was always there.

Think how much white society has been transformed going back to about 400 years ago, when we were all pretty much peasants. Civilisation and culture has made massive leaps and developments - have we have evolved from that backwards culture into a new race of genetic supermen in that short time? No, but the potential was always there. My view, at least.

And with IQ scores, get out of your head that they are measures of genetic intelligence, and see them as 'realised brain potential', or something along those lines.

It's not personal. It's just war.

I would just say they don't have the ability to create a decent culture...Thus, they will languish at the bottom forever. Proof is there in basic black and white general observation. The bottom line is they have lower IQ's and a shitty community..Why?

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:42 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, shit, it's back. Well, it was nice while it lasted, more like what this site was when I first found it, and what deeply impressed me about it.

Such is life.

Yes, KPO, xenophobic is a pretty normal human trait, too; what we don’t understand, we fear; what we fear, we hate, and so it goes. Good, salient point.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:15 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Thus, they will languish at the bottom forever. Proof is there in basic black and white general observation. The bottom line is they have lower IQ's and a shitty community..Why?

But apply this same standard to the white working class in my country... and you contradict yourself. Blacks (of comparable social standard) are smarter, and whites live in a more shitty community. Can you explain that?

But I'll bet you're not interested in the world outside of America - right?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 7:16 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Update on that 'letter' from Williams:

Quote:
A member of the Tea Party Express leadership defended a satirical letter Friday that he says was intended to spark discussion but has instead erupted into a national controversy.

Saying he wanted to make a "serious point about the hypocrisy in the NAACP" and that he hoped to "get the dialogue going," Tea Party Express spokesman Mark Williams said on CNN's John King, USA that he has made some apologies because "what I said, and the way I said it, was getting in the way."

Earlier this week, and apparently in reaction to an NAACP resolution regarding racist behavior exhibited by some attendees at Tea Party events, Williams published a mock letter from NAACP president Benjamin Jealous to the late President Abraham Lincoln, which Williams has since removed from his blog.

in the course of defending his post, Williams said that the NAACP resolution passed earlier this week in Kansas City was the work of "race baiters."

"I would have far preferred to be on stage at the NAACP convention explaining to the assembled membership why it was so important for them to join with the Tea Party movement rather than stand there, listening to screeds from race baiters about what racists we were, because that was a complete lie," Williams said.

Williams made several modifications to his blog post after its initial posting, including removing references to bailouts as "big money welfare" that should handed "directly to us coloreds" and Tea Party demands for lower taxes preventing black Americans from getting "a wide-screen TV in every room."

In a personal note on his blog posted Friday afternoon, Williams explained his decision to remove the controversial mock letter entirely.

"I learned this morning that Ben Jealous, author of the NAACP anti-tea party resolution has offered something of an olive branch and wants to open discussions with tea partiers regarding dialing down the unproductive shots going back and forth," Williams wrote.

Although Jealous disputed the version of events offered by Williams, the civil rights leader said he was open to meeting with the Tea Party activist.

"I have not reached out to Mark Williams nor have we made statements against the Tea Party. We have simply called on the leaders to repudiate racist elements in their ranks … If Mark Williams does so, I would be happy to sit down and talk with him," Jealous said in a statement to CNN.

Gee, I guess Jealous lied, as well as being a race baiter[/snark]

Once again, note the NAACP was only asking the Tea Party to disown the actions/words of "SOME" members of its party, rather than being a "screeds from race baiters". Defensive, much?

Besides, they got it wrong; Williams resigned, remember? Wonder how much this had to do with it.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 7:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Further update: Williams didn't "quit", he and his Tea Party Express were banned from the movement! He's right, this DID start something...something GOOD. It's the first sign that they WILL call out the racists among them, and I applaud them for it!

Quote:
The National Tea Party Federation, an organization that represents the Tea Party political movement around the country, has expelled conservative commentator Mark Williams and his Tea Party Express because of an inflammatory blog post he wrote, federation spokesman David Webb said Sunday.

Appearing on the CBS program "Face the Nation," Webb said that Williams and the Tea Party Express -- which has held a series of events across the country to generate support for the movement -- no longer were part of the National Tea Party Federation.

"We, in the last 24 hours, have expelled Tea Party Express and Mark Williams from the National Tea Party Federation because of the letter that he wrote," Webb said of the blog post by Williams that satirized a fictional letter from what he called "Colored People" to President Abraham Lincoln.

Webb called the blog post "clearly offensive."

Ooops, I guess this disproves the cries that "there is ZERO racism in the Tea Party. It's a first step, I'm impressed.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:13 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
.... Williams and the Tea Party Express -- which has held a series of events across the country to generate support for the movement -- no longer were part of the National Tea Party Federation.

"We, in the last 24 hours, have expelled Tea Party Express and Mark Williams from the National Tea Party Federation because of the letter that he wrote," Webb said of the blog post by Williams that satirized a fictional letter from what he called "Colored People" to President Abraham Lincoln.

Webb called the blog post "clearly offensive."

So, right here, we have the complete and total debunking of not only the naaLcp's fanatical , pointless and utterly politically motivated referendum against the Tea Party. There was no need for this thread to even exist in the first place.

Now, if the Left would openly rebuke their own racists....

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:17 AM

HKCAVALIER

Okay, I'll give this another go.

"How can I prove I am not a racist?"

Easy, easy, easy--that is, if you're not racist. If you're racist and just trying to hide it this will PISS YOU OFF!

Here it is: D E M O N S T R A T E compassion for people of other races on issues of race. Best of all, be forgiving of other races when they express outrage at the wrongs done them by members of your race. Do this simple thing and you have pretty much invalidated any accusations of racism against you in the eyes of right-thinking people (never gonna prove anything to zealots).

K, can we go now?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:26 AM

America loves a winner!

HK

Are you an individual, or are you a "race"?

Are we to judge you by your character, or the color of your skin?

My 'race' has done no injustices to people of color. I can honestly say that because we didn't transport anyone on a cargo ship, didn't buy / sell anyone, didn't treat anyone like property or cattle.

Were these things done ? Absolutely, but not by me, or by most others.

I refuse to accept blame for that which I am not guilty of having committed.

We, all of us, regardless of color, are just folk.

The sooner we all get to realizing that fact, and stop this pointless guilt trip, the sooner we can get to Rev. King's promised land.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Okay, I'll give this another go.

"How can I prove I am not a racist?"

Easy, easy, easy--that is, if you're not racist. If you're racist and just trying to hide it this will PISS YOU OFF!

Here it is: D E M O N S T R A T E compassion for people of other races on issues of race. Best of all, be forgiving of other races when they express outrage at the wrongs done them by members of your race. Do this simple thing and you have pretty much invalidated any accusations of racism against you in the eyes of right-thinking people (never gonna prove anything to zealots).

K, can we go now?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Don't bother HK. Whozit got it taken care of. He answered Crappy's question on another thread:

"Thanks to the Tea Party they want you to belive[sic] that becuase[sic] of your political affliations that when people see you they see someone who is a complete racist. JUST RELAX!!! You're paranoid, everyone DOES NOT see you as a racist. Stop trying to prove something your not, or do you see the government everywhere! No one is after you, enjoy your life."

Or that's how it works if it's Moslims/terrorists rather than Tea Party/racists.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44327

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:54 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Or that's how it works if it's Moslims/terrorists rather than Tea Party/racists.

Wait, did you just try to compare al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism to the Tea Party ?

Really?

Please, elaborate.

Show the long list of car bombs and heads cut off that the Tea Party has had a hand in, if you can.

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You start w/ a tiny, indefensible and unsupported lie. Upon that you feign outrage and heap loads of hysterical propaganda, and before long, you have Nero blaming Christians for the burning of Rome.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 9:48 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Crappy, are you saying you are not of the caucasian race (as the term is used these days)? Or that people of the caucasian race ""has done no injustices to people of color. I can honestly say that because we didn't transport anyone on a cargo ship, didn't buy / sell anyone, didn't treat anyone like property or cattle."

I'm curious.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:21 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Or that's how it works if it's Moslims/terrorists rather than Tea Party/racists.

Wait, did you just try to compare al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism to the Tea Party ?

Really?

Please, elaborate.

Show the long list of car bombs and heads cut off that the Tea Party has had a hand in, if you can.

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You start w/ a tiny, indefensible and unsupported lie. Upon that you feign outrage and heap loads of hysterical propaganda, and before long, you have Nero blaming Christians for the burning of Rome.

... or you have Tea Partiers blaming the NAACP for racism. Can you maybe show us the long list of folks the NAACP has lynched?

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Or that's how it works if it's Moslims/terrorists rather than Tea Party/racists.

Wait, did you just try to compare al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism to the Tea Party ?

Really?

Please, elaborate.

Show the long list of car bombs and heads cut off that the Tea Party has had a hand in, if you can.

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You start w/ a tiny, indefensible and unsupported lie. Upon that you feign outrage and heap loads of hysterical propaganda, and before long, you have Nero blaming Christians for the burning of Rome.

... or you have Tea Partiers blaming the NAACP for racism. Can you maybe show us the long list of folks the NAACP has lynched?

It's the same length as the number of people the tea party has lynched...And you are gay

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
.... Williams and the Tea Party Express -- which has held a series of events across the country to generate support for the movement -- no longer were part of the National Tea Party Federation.

"We, in the last 24 hours, have expelled Tea Party Express and Mark Williams from the National Tea Party Federation because of the letter that he wrote," Webb said of the blog post by Williams that satirized a fictional letter from what he called "Colored People" to President Abraham Lincoln.

Webb called the blog post "clearly offensive."

So, right here, we have the complete and total debunking of not only the naaLcp's fanatical , pointless and utterly politically motivated referendum against the Tea Party. There was no need for this thread to even exist in the first place.

Now, if the Left would openly rebuke their own racists....

Wait - because the Tea Party movement acted out, and did as the NAACP (there's no "L" in their name, Rappy, no matter what Rush tells you) asked them to do, that proves the NAACP was wrong?

That doesn't compute. The NAACP asked the tea party movement to speak out about racism in its ranks. The Tea Party Federation has now done so, ousting Mark Williams and his Tea Party Express from the Federation. So in RappyWorld™, that equates to proving there was never a single racist in their ranks? Because they kicked him out, he wasn't ever there?

Gosh, maybe if we could get Al Qaeda to give Bin Laden the boot, they wouldn't be terrorists anymore!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:36 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Or that's how it works if it's Moslims/terrorists rather than Tea Party/racists.

Wait, did you just try to compare al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism to the Tea Party ?

Really?

You betray your own prejudices Rap...

Look again, it's comparing Muslims, not terrorists, to Tea Partiers.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Or that's how it works if it's Moslims/terrorists rather than Tea Party/racists.

Wait, did you just try to compare al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism to the Tea Party ?

Really?

You betray your own prejudices Rap...

Look again, it's comparing Muslims, not terrorists, to Tea Partiers.

It's not personal. It's just war.

But we can all see how it is in Rappyland. He's allowed to condemn a whole group of people because of the actions of a few on the fringe, even if it means killing them. No shit - even if it means KILLING innocent people. He doesn't care about that.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Gee, Muslims are just real people, like anyone else ? Gosh, I've been so wrong,....

Wait, no I haven't. Not even a little bit.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44327

But if anyone says anything bad about a group the Rapp identifies with, even if it does him no actual harm...

He's a sick, pathetic little weasel of a man.

And he smells bad.

[Edited to apologize to all the weasels and the real men out there.]

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 11:11 AM

America loves a winner!

That you have to ask, Niki, shows you missed my meaning. What does my ethnicity matter ?

Seriously. Why should it matter at all ?

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 11:14 AM

America loves a winner!

I'm not missing anything, and there's nothing for me to betray here.

YOU made the comparison, not me.

No where, NO WHERE has there been any hint of violence, bigotry or hatred shown by Tea Partiers to minorities.

The same can't be said of Islamic terrorists.

Comparison fail, on your part - big time.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 11:34 AM

MINCINGBEAST

I never thought that one of the most taboo subjects of modern life could become so...dreary. I am amazed by RWED's ability to make even transform the contentious into the utterly petty and boring.

Truly, the cure for racism is reading Rappy and Kane post about race.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 12:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm not missing anything, and there's nothing for me to betray here.

YOU made the comparison, not me.

No where, NO WHERE has there been any hint of violence, bigotry or hatred shown by Tea Partiers to minorities.

Either you don't believe Mark Williams and the Tea Party Express are (or WERE) part of the "Tea Partiers", or you don't believe that anything he said or posted is in any way racist or bigoted. Either way, you're wrong.

You are the one who keeps insisting that such behavior DOES NOT EXIST, can't possibly BE, isn't there, has never happened. All one need do to prove you irrevocably wrong is show one single instance of it existing. That's been done, MORE than once.

To stand there and deny it shows you up as the fool you are already known to be.

I can point to racism in the Democratic party, such as Robert Byrd's Klan membership, and say without reservation that he was wrong, he was an idiot, and his views should be called out and ridiculed. And they were.
I can point to racism in the Republican party, such as Rush Limbaugh's, and say without reservation that he is wrong, he is an idiot, and he should be called out and ridiculed. And he is. And I can point to racism in the Tea Party movement, like Mark Williams's, and say without reservation that he is wrong, he is an idiot, and he should be called out and ridiculed.

The thing is, YOU can only find racism in one of those examples, because you are permanently blinded by your partisanship, and will either never see it in your own party, or can never admit it if you DO see it.

And now, of course, you'll declare that this subject is closed, there's nothing to talk about, and you won't debate further, because you can't. You've lost. You've hung yourself all the way out there by hanging your beliefs on such a ridiculous premise ("NO WHERE has there been any hint of bigotry by the Tea Partiers towards any minority"), and you've been cut off. Similarly, when you say that "ALL of the left" blames Bush and claims he blew up the levees, and then all you can find is one single person saying that, you blow your credibility. You hung yourself out again. You'd have had an easy score if I'd said that NOBODY on the left had EVER said that Bush blew the levees. But you claimed that ALL of us claimed it, a claim that is easily proven baseless.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:13 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm not missing anything, and there's nothing for me to betray here.

YOU made the comparison, not me.

No where, NO WHERE has there been any hint of violence, bigotry or hatred shown by Tea Partiers to minorities.

The same can't be said of Islamic terrorists.

Comparison fail, on your part - big time.

No really, look again: it's comparing Muslims, and not terrorists, to Tea Partiers. 'Muslims'. Not 'terrorists'.

'Muslims' corresponds with 'Tea Partiers', and 'Terrorists' corresponds with 'Racists'. Are you complaining that this is unfair on racists? Or that the Tea Party protests don't have a racist element (or no more than the proportion that exists in the civilian population)?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:32 AM

HKCAVALIER

AU,

The question was "How can I prove I am not a racist?" and I gave an answer to that specific question. If you can show compassion to people who consider themselves to be a different race from yours(regardless of your own feelings on the matter) on issues of race, you've proved you're prolly not a racist. However, if you fail to do this, it does not follow that you are a racist. But if you are outraged or disgusted by my answer, then yeah, I may start getting the idea that you're a bit racist, in terms of how you think. That wouldn't be the end of the world.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
HK

Are you an individual, or are you a "race"?

AURaptor, you and I don't think alike. That's obvious, isn't it? I see a lot of misery in the world growing out of this "either/or" way of thinking. We divide people that way, we divide ourselves that way, because very often what we think of as a matter of "either/or" is really, truly and forevermore, "both/and." When we love someone do we only love them? Do we have any non-loving feelings for them? Of course we do, it's only human. To deny my unloving feelings toward the ones I love, just means lying, dissembling to them, and that creates distance, undermines the love. Y'know what I mean?

Of course I think of myself as an individual (eccentric, even). I also am aware that I belong to an ethnic group or "race." I know I share a lot of characteristics with other people based on any number of criteria--race, sex, vegetarianism, etc. Bloodline matters, culture matters, but I do try to focus on my individuality in most cases. However, if I meet a black person who is hostile toward me on racial grounds I will tend to forgive him his prejudice in light of our nation's history and his personal experiences which have clearly been bad enough that he feels the need to mistrust an entire race of people because of it.

I'm painfully aware of our country's history and the scars left over from slavery and segregation. Did you know lynchings used to be celebrated, something you'd bring the whole family to and take pictures with the corpses? I'm not talking about in the days of slavery, I'm talking about this century! That these pictures used to be converted into postcards and sold in drugstores? I don't bring that up to implicate all whites in such lynchings or to exonerate all black hostility, only to give you just a single example of how accepted the torture and murder of black people was by our predominantly white culture only some 3 generations ago.

I am a little less sympathetic (just a little, mind) to a white person who finds he needs to blame all black people for his personal difficulties with black individuals in his past, because at no time in our American history have white people been tortured and murdered while whole families of blacks in their Sunday best celebrated and got their pictures taken with the corpse. There is a real inequity in experience there and it impacts my reaction to the folks I meet in my life. Only time can heal such wounds and I believe people deserve all the time they need.

You may call that racism, or perhaps racial favoritism and I see no reason to argue with you, because I think I understand how you get there. I see your point. But I know I get there by way of compassion. I only hope you can see my point.

Quote:
Are we to judge you by your character, or the color of your skin?

Of course I would prefer that you judge me by my character, but we don't always get what we want in life and I'm not a crybaby. If you choose to judge me by the color of my skin, I'll likely be saddened by it, but again, I can't control you, wouldn't want to, and tend to understand where most folk are coming from.

Quote:
My 'race' has done no injustices to people of color. I can honestly say that because we didn't transport anyone on a cargo ship, didn't buy / sell anyone, didn't treat anyone like property or cattle.

Well, that's nice and all, but it betrays a somewhat shallow appreciation of world history. Yes, your specific bloodline may have come over to America, y'know, three weeks ago and missed out on all the racial oppression over here, but racism is global and has flourished throughout history. Cultures all over the world and throughout its history have seen darker skinned people as inferior and lighter skinned people as somehow closer to divinity. America didn't invent racism, we just perfected it.

Even within our white culture blond people are granted a peculiar mystique. Just ask any woman who has died her hair blond about the difference in how she was treated. Or ask any blond woman if she's ever died her hair and if so, why might she do such a thing.

So, forgive me if I see your statement that your race has done no injustice to people of color as tragically naive.

Quote:
Were these things done ? Absolutely, but not by me, or by most others.

Yeesh. "Most." Yeah, this shows a grave wont of historical context in your thinking.

Quote:
I refuse to accept blame for that which I am not guilty of having committed.

See, I could say exactly the same thing. I don't feel personally guilty for the casual atrocities perpetrated by whites against blacks in this country. I just understand why black folks, any black folks in this country, might be a tiny bit P.O.'d and might just direct some o' their outrage my direction. For me it's an issue of compassion and forgiveness. While for you it seems a matter merely of fairness and of unreasoning pride.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I never thought that one of the most taboo subjects of modern life could become so...dreary. I am amazed by RWED's ability to make even transform the contentious into the utterly petty and boring.

Truly, the cure for racism is reading Rappy and Kane post about race.

All Hail the Great and Mighty Mincing, for stating the obvious!

Thank you Mincing, for the needed perspective. I wonder off and on why people keep on keepin' on trying to get through, rather than try once and give up (I know, I have trouble remembering that sometimes, but I'm trying to!).

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:50 AM

You can never prove you are not a racist to a liberal, once they know you are a Conservative their minds are made up. I know you are not a racist. And every conservative on this board knows you are not. So why care.....I am sure you don't.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:50 AM

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:51 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Kane for the Win... and the truth.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:53 AM

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:14 PM

ANTIMASON

how is a picture of Obama, made out to be a witch-doctor, racist? it's satire for crying out loud, quit being so sensitive.

you people on the left really need to get a backbone and try to stick up for your ideological views based on there merits for once, rather then resorting to impuning the character of your opponants. if you believe in marxist, collectivist thought, be up front and honest, and argue your points! if even a quarter of so called 'tea partiers' were racist, that would still leave three quarters who aren't, who have legitimate concerns and political differences. i think it says more about you, that you cannot appreciate a grassroots movement advocating liberty and individual freedom. why throw the baby out with the bath water, just because some in the movement are not yet consistent in their advocacy for personal liberty? its the message! is there someone here actually arguing against liberty?

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:40 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"You people on the right really need to get a backbone and try to stick up for your ideological views based on there (sic) merits for once, rather then resorting to impuning the character of your opponants."

That was too easy. Given that's what you do consistently, and little else, it fits so well.

You haven't been listening, dear; you haven't heard all the repeated statements that "nobody thinks the whole Tea Party is racist", nor have you noticed that the Repubs have made it clear the Midterms are to be about OBAMA, not the issues, and at one point one of their leaders said quite clearly that they were NOT GOING TO ENUMERATE their platform, just run against Obama's, etc., etc. They holler "drill baby drill", apologize to Big Oil, want less regulation and less government; but they want government deciding abortion, marriage, and everything else that fits THEIR agenda. They talk about fiscal responsibility, but say taxes don't need to be paid for, Voodoo Economics tells them tax cuts pay for themselves, which has patently have been proven they do not.

If the Tea Party would make sense, I'd listen. But they bitch about raising taxes (which have been lowered--don't talk to me about the future, talk about NOW), gun control (which was actually loosened), and when interviewed, the everyday members of the Tea Party can only espouse talking points, or can't even elucidate WHY they hate Obama and his administration...all they seem able to do is toss around "liberty" and "tyranny" and "patriot" and "return to values" and "take our country away" and the usual buzz words like "fascist", "commie", "marxist" and the rest--some of which are diametrically opposed.

They scream "reverse racism" and "racism" every bit as loudly as the other side screams "racism", their kookoo candidates talk about getting rid of the Dept. of Education, Social Security, Medicare, etc., etc., bartering for healthcare, giving free enterprise free reign, but have nothing viable to put in their place...I know, they want "nothing" in their place, everybody for himself, but that's not something the public is gonna buy.

So speak to the issues yourselves and tell them to do the same, not just shout out slogans and talk about things which aren't. Or not.

"if you believe in marxist, collectivist thought, be up front and honest, and argue your points!" How about if we don't? Because we don't. You just like to holler that.

We WOULD appreciate a true grass-roots movement. One is partly responsible for putting Obama in office. But as has been shown several times, the TP Express was NEVER "grass roots", it SOLD the idea of being grass roots to disenfranchised, frightened, angry people, that's all. And the GOP has been doing their damndest to make use of them too, which is kinda becoming a problem for them right now.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
you people on the left really need to get a backbone and try to stick up for your ideological views based on there merits for once, rather then resorting to impuning the character of your opponants.

Hey, speaking of needing to get a backbone, why don't you answer my question? I've been waiting three years now...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=29741

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i will likely always be skeptical and left with the same questions, because no one will ever know what happened 'in the beginning'
Are you skeptical of your own beliefs, or only of those that disagree with yours?

Anyway, by bringing up the "beginning" you're running away from my point (remember that I said evolution does describe the origin, only the process since then) My point - you repeatedly claim that there are no transitional fossils, that there's no proof that one species ever shifted to another. There is proof, my dear. You refuse to look at it, but it's there. A cartoon example:

The fossils of this transition from toed feet to hooves have been found, in our very earth. I'm sure there are museums where you can go see these fossilized bones set out before you. How do you explain them away? Do you think scientists have faked them? Or do you just try really hard not to look?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:07 AM

MALACHITE

KPO said: "And with IQ scores, get out of your head that they are measures of genetic intelligence, and see them as 'realised brain potential', or something along those lines."

I just wanted to add another link supporting this statement -- it has some citations of the studies it points out. The jist is that IQ tests measure various parameters, but it is hard to define what true intelligence is and IQ tests don't really measure innate intelligence -- they measure some problem solving skills (with a western philosophical foundation at its root), processing speed,a person's math/language skills, and some other factors. Also, IQ test results are based on what a person has already learned -- if a person has had plenty of opportunity to learn reading and math, they are going to score higher (in general). But it doesn't measure a person's future potential or their chances for future success. Those growing up in educationally/economically impoverished environments are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to taking IQ tests. Also, even an individual's perception of their own intelligence/test taking ability will affect their results (ie, if a person thinks they're dumb, chances are they'll test lower than they would have if they were more confident).

To sum, IQ tests don't appear to measure innate intelligence and they don't measure a person's future potential.

http://www.audiblox2000.com/dyslexia_dyslexic/dyslexia014.htm

ETA: As far as the original posted question. I would say that I agree with the people who are saying it is hard to prove one is not a racist, but a good start would be actively seeking to remove/disavow obviously racist elements in whatever organization you support. Yes, this applies to "reverse" racism, too. Racism is not just white oppressing blacks...

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 7:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:

you people on the left really need to get a backbone and try to stick up for your ideological views based on there merits for once, rather then resorting to impuning the character of your opponants.

What have you just done with your post, other than try to impugn the character of your opponents? Sounds like you need a backbone! Maybe you haven't evolved enough to become a vertebrate yet, eh? ;)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 7:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
you people on the left really need to get a backbone and try to stick up for your ideological views based on there merits for once, rather then resorting to impuning the character of your opponants.

Hey, speaking of needing to get a backbone, why don't you answer my question? I've been waiting three years now...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=29741

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i will likely always be skeptical and left with the same questions, because no one will ever know what happened 'in the beginning'
Are you skeptical of your own beliefs, or only of those that disagree with yours?

Anyway, by bringing up the "beginning" you're running away from my point (remember that I said evolution does describe the origin, only the process since then) My point - you repeatedly claim that there are no transitional fossils, that there's no proof that one species ever shifted to another. There is proof, my dear. You refuse to look at it, but it's there. A cartoon example:

The fossils of this transition from toed feet to hooves have been found, in our very earth. I'm sure there are museums where you can go see these fossilized bones set out before you. How do you explain them away? Do you think scientists have faked them? Or do you just try really hard not to look?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

Y'know, M4P, we've been very, VERRRRYYYY patient, waiting all this time for Ant to evolve and grow a backbone and face this question. I guess he's still hundreds of millions of years away from the truth, though...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:14 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Mal4prez-

Hey, speaking of needing to get a backbone, why don't you answer my question? I've been waiting three years now...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=29741

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by antimason:
i will likely always be skeptical and left with the same questions, because no one will ever know what happened 'in the beginning'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you skeptical of your own beliefs, or only of those that disagree with yours?

Anyway, by bringing up the "beginning" you're running away from my point (remember that I said evolution does describe the origin, only the process since then) My point - you repeatedly claim that there are no transitional fossils, that there's no proof that one species ever shifted to another. There is proof, my dear. You refuse to look at it, but it's there.

hahahahaahahaha! are you kidding me? just how long have you been sitting on this? tell me this whole time now you haven't been dwelling on that conversation? how long have you been sitting on this, just waiting to throw it out when its most irrelevant? i had to laugh- thats like taking a full 30 seconds to respond with a comeback from an off the cuff jab. in all honesty, i never even saw that response of yours. if it's eating at you, start a new thread, but can we try to stick to the subject at hand- we're talking about politics, not debating creation/evolution. if you do i'm sure i'll be there giving my opinions, same as you all. but forgive me if some peoples responses get lost in the shuffle, especially when you represent a minority view. its like being on stage, and trying to debate a crowd of people just shouting at you and over eachother. but i get under the skin of some people aroud here, so i must be doing something right

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:27 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Either you don't believe Mark Williams and the Tea Party Express are (or WERE) part of the "Tea Partiers", or you don't believe that anything he said or posted is in any way racist or bigoted. Either way, you're wrong.

No, you're wrong.

There's nothing remotely " racist " about lower taxes, smaller gov't, securing the border and balancing the budget.

I don't care what you say, what the NAACP says, what Obama says, there's nothing in the least bit 'racist' about the Tea Party movement.

This entire nonsense is nothing but a diversion by the Left to attack the right....

" deflect.. change the subject... call them racists!"

That's the sum of it all , in its entirety.

The Left simply can not win a debate on the merits of the facts alone, and must - MUST resort to cheap demagoguery and sensational tactics.

And you're no different.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Malachite:
.But it doesn't measure a person's future potential or their chances for future success.

QFT.
Of all the incorrect statements in your post, you did nail it right here. Numerous High-IQ societies have made this obvious, and consider it a running joke among the groups.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
hahahahaahahaha! are you kidding me? just how long have you been sitting on this?

I'll see your hahaha and raise you a BWAH-HAHAHAHA! You did it again, huh? How predictable.

We all see who's got no backbone. Again Antimason avoids. This time he doesn't disappear, but begs: "No - please don't bring up that topic again! Please don't make me look at that! I can't even include the picture in my quote, I've got to close my eyes. I've tried so hard to see only what the creationist sites show me. I avoid the discovery channel, museums, and anyone who's actually capable of *thinking* about reality! Please don't knock on my denial walls! I need them to keep me safe and warm!"

Anti, I'm going to keep bringing this up as long as you keep running away from it with your little vestigial tail between your legs. It's been several times now. Go on - avoid dealing with the question one more time. Here's your chance:

How do you explain the very real transitional fossils dug out of the ground, like this, which came from a peer-reviewed paper:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v16470436056263j/

(Denial/Avoidance in 5, 4, 3 ...)

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:13 AM