REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Paradox: U.S. Intelligence

POSTED BY: DMAANLILEILTT
UPDATED: Monday, July 26, 2010 08:03
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1644
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, July 22, 2010 9:45 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Okay. I'm suprised nobody hasn't already started a thread on this. I read it a few days ago and thought someone would have. But since I haven't seen one I'll do it meself.

From The Sydney Morning Herald:
Quote:

Blinded by information overload

WASHINGTON: When it comes to national security, all too often no expense is spared and few questions are asked. The result is an enterprise so massive that nobody in government has a full understanding of it.

In the US Department of Defence, where more than two-thirds of America's intelligence programs reside, only a handful of senior officials - called Super Users - have the ability to even know about all the department's activities. One Super User recounted that for his initial briefing, he was escorted into a tiny, dark room, seated at a small table and told he couldn't take notes. Program after program began flashing on a screen, he said, until he yelled ''Stop!'' in frustration.

''I wasn't remembering any of it,'' he said.

Underscoring the seriousness of these issues are the conclusions of a retired Army lieutenant-general, John Vines, who was asked last year to review the method for tracking the Defence Department's most sensitive programs. Vines, who once commanded 145,000 troops in Iraq and is familiar with complex problems, was stunned by what he discovered.

''I'm not aware of any agency with the authority, responsibility or a process in place to co-ordinate all these inter-agency and commercial activities,'' he said. ''The complexity of this system defies description.''

The result, he added, is that it's impossible to tell whether the US is safer for all this spending and all these activities.

The US Secretary of Defence, Robert Gates, said he did not believe the system had become too big to manage but that getting precise data is sometimes difficult. Singling out the growth of intelligence units in the Defence Department, he said he intends to review those programs for waste. ''Nine years after 9/11, it makes a lot of sense to sort of take a look at this and say, 'OK, we've built tremendous capability, but do we have more than we need?' '' he said.

The CIA director, Leon Panetta, said he's begun mapping out a five-year plan for his agency because the levels of spending since 2001 are not sustainable.

The former director of national intelligence, retired Admiral Dennis Blair, said: ''After 9/11, when we decided to attack violent extremism, we did as we so often do in this country. The attitude was, if it's worth doing, it's probably worth overdoing.''

Every day across the US, 854,000 civil servants, military personnel and private contractors with top-secret security clearances are scanned into offices protected by electromagnetic locks, retinal cameras and fortified walls that eavesdropping equipment cannot penetrate.

The US intelligence budget is vast, publicly announced last year as $US75 billion ($86 billion), which is 2½ times the size it was on September 10, 2001. But the figure doesn't include many military activities or domestic counterterrorism programs.

At least 20 per cent of the government organisations that exist to fend off terrorist threats were established or refashioned in the wake of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Many that existed before grew to historic proportions as the Bush administration and Congress gave agencies more money than they could responsibly spend.

It was phenomenal growth that began almost as soon as the September 11 attacks ended.

Nine days after the attacks, Congress committed $US40 billion beyond what was in the federal budget to fortify domestic defences and to launch a global offensive against al-Qaeda. It followed that up with an additional $US36.5 billion in 2002 and $US44 billion in 2003. That was only the beginning.

With the quick infusion of money, military and intelligence agencies multiplied. Twenty-four organisations were created by the end of 2001, including the Department of Homeland Security and the Foreign Terrorist Asset Tracking Task Force. In 2002, 37 more were created to track weapons of mass destruction, collect threat tips and co-ordinate the new focus on counterterrorism. That was followed the next year by 36 new organisations; and 26 after that; and 31 more; and 32 more; and 20 or more each in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

In all, at least 263 organisations have been created or reorganised as a response to the 2001 attacks.

With so many more employees, units and organisations, the lines of responsibility began to blur. To remedy this, at the recommendation of the bipartisan 9/11 Commission, the Bush administration and Congress decided to create an agency in 2004 with overarching responsibilities called the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to bring the colossal effort under control.

While that was the idea, Washington has its own ways.

The first problem was that the law passed by Congress did not give the director clear legal or budgetary authority over intelligence matters, which meant he wouldn't have power over the individual agencies he was supposed to control.

The second problem: even before the first director, John Negroponte, was on the job, the turf battles began. The Defence Department shifted billions of dollars out of one budget and into another so the ODNI could not touch it, according to two officials who watched the process. The CIA reclassified some of its most sensitive information at a higher level so National Counterterrorism Centre staff, part of the ODNI, would not be allowed to see it, former intelligence officers involved said.

Today, many officials who work in the intelligence agencies say they remain unclear about what the ODNI is in charge of.

Any improvements have been overtaken by volume, as the increased flow of data overwhelms the system's ability to analyse and use it. Every day, collection systems at the National Security Agency intercept and store 1.7 billion emails, phone calls and other types of communications. The NSA sorts a fraction of those intercepts into 70 separate databases. The same problem bedevils every other intelligence agency, none of which have enough analysts and translators for all this work.

Among the most important people inside these agencies are the low-paid employees carrying their lunches to save money. They are the analysts, the 20- and 30-year-olds making $US41,000 to $US65,000 a year, whose job is at the core of everything Top Secret America tries to do.

When hired, a typical analyst knows very little about the priority countries - Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan - and is not fluent in their languages. Still, the number of intelligence reports they produce is overwhelming, current and former intelligence officials who try to cull them every day say. The ODNI doesn't know exactly how many reports are issued each year, but in the process of trying to find out, the chief of analysis discovered 60 classified analytic websites still in operation that were supposed to have been closed for lack of usefulness. ''Like a zombie, it keeps on living'' is how one official describes the websites.

Beyond information overload, secrecy within the intelligence world hampers effectiveness in other ways, say defence and intelligence officers. For the Defence Department, the root of this problem goes back to an ultra-secret group of programs for which access is extremely limited and monitored by specially trained security officers.

These are called Special Access Programs - or SAPs - and the Pentagon's list of code names for them runs 300 pages. The intelligence community has hundreds more of its own and those hundreds have thousands of sub-programs with their own limits on the number of people authorised to know anything about them. All this means that very few people have a complete sense of what's going on.

''There's only one entity in the entire universe that has visibility on all SAPs - that's God,'' said James Clapper, Undersecretary of Defence for Intelligence and the Obama administration's nominee to be the next director of national intelligence.



What do y'all think of that?


"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 5:43 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Ahh, isn't the Patriot Act great?!

Hmm, I wonder what we should call the American version of the KGB?

We already have the CIA, the FBI, DOHS, ect...



"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 6:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I did post about it; it went nowhere. I guess nobody's interested, tho' I found it incredible. Maybe you'll have more luck...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44396

Quote:

Since the terror attacks of Sept. 11, top-secret intelligence gathering by the government has grown so unwieldy and expensive that no one really knows what it cost and how many people are involved, The Washington Post reported Monday.

A two-year investigation by the newspaper uncovered what it termed a "Top Secret America" that's mostly hidden from public view and largely lacking in oversight.

In its first installment of a series of reports, the Post said there are now more than 1,200 government organizations and more than 1,900 private companies working on counterterrorism, homeland security and intelligence in some 10,000 locations across the U.S.

Some 854,000 people — or nearly 1 1/2 times the number of people who live in Washington — have top-secret security clearance, the paper said.

Col. Dave Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman, said Monday the issue of redundancy within the intelligence community is a "well known" problem.

"We've been fighting two wars since 9-11 and a lot of that growth in the intelligence community has come as a result of needed increases in intelligence collection and those types of activities to support two wars," Lapan said.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates previously had ordered the services and defense agencies to find cost savings in the years to come. Lapan said the military's intelligence programs, including its reliance on contractors, was expected to be part of that sweeping review.

Gates told the Post that he doesn't believe the massive bureaucracy of government and private intelligence has grown too large to manage, but that it is sometimes hard to get precise information.

"Nine years after 9/11, it makes sense to sort of take a look at this and say, 'OK, we've built tremendous capability, but do we have more than we need?" he said.

The head of the CIA, Leon Panetta, said he knows that with the growing budget deficits the level of spending on intelligence will likely be reduced and he's at work on a five-year plan for the agency.

The White House had been anticipating the Post report and said before it was published that the Obama administration came into office aware of the problems and is trying to fix them.

The administration also released a memo from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence listing what it called eight "myths" and intended as a point-by-point answer to the charges the Post series was expected to raise.

Among them was that contractors represent the bulk of the intelligence work force. The memo put the number at 28 percent, or less than a third.

The memo said that 70 percent of the intelligence budget is spent on "contracts, not contractors."

"Those contracts cover major acquisitions such as satellites and computer systems, as well as commercial activities such as rent, food service, and facilities maintenance and security," the memo said.

The Post said its investigation also found that:

_In the area around Washington, 33 building complexes — totaling some 17 million square feet of space — for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since 9/11.

_Many intelligence agencies are doing the same work, wasting money and resources on redundancy.

_So many intelligence reports are published each year that many are routinely ignored.

"There has been so much growth since 9/11 that getting your arms around that — not just for the DNI, but for any individual, for the director of the CIA, for the secretary of defense — is a challenge," Gates told the Post.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 2:10 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


yeah apprently nobody wants to discuss a topic that might entail intelligent debate.



"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 2:29 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

What's to debate? We have here a hugely bloated government agency that is so big and complicated that it doesn't even know what it's doing. (Like many government agencies.) I don't think you'll have anyone chiming in with dissent on this one.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 5:40 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


well, i agree that there's is little reason to debate anything in this topic seen as it is so illogical; i would also say that debating on giving people the same rights as other people is just as illogical (gay marriage, for example).

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 6:20 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't see the connection between debating gay rights (something people disagree on) and this.

Is there a point of disagreement I've overlooked here?

--Anthony


Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 23, 2010 6:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'm at a loss to figure out how an overly large, overly complex U.S. intel apparatus is impinging on gay rights, too, Anthony.

Daniel, YES it's a clusterfuck. Is that what you wanted to hear? Of course it is. It has been since before 9/11, but it got exponentially worse AFTER 9/11. But "safety" and "security" were never what any of that massive growth and power-grap were about, were they? They were about power and authority, and who had it over whom, and who could exercise it, and how, and when, and where.

And nothing in any of these stories really addresses any of that, does it?

Is THAT the intelligent debate you're really angling for? Whether we got sold a bill of goods under the guise of "security theatre"? I don't think you'll get much argument around here about that, except from some on the right, who ironically argue that the government needs to watch and listen to everything we do and everything we say, so they can protect our "freedoms". Oh, and by the way, they would NEVER misuse those powers. Really. Trust us. ;)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:44 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But "safety" and "security" were never what any of that massive growth and power-grap were about, were they? They were about power and authority, and who had it over whom, and who could exercise it, and how, and when, and where.

And nothing in any of these stories really addresses any of that, does it?



Good old NPR has had a couple of discussions about the problems of out-of-control congressional committee oversight on various security agencies. It's apparently to the point that the supposed overall directors of Homeland Security don't even know which (or how many) committees have oversight over which agencies. None of the committees wanted to give up their power when things were reorganized, so some agencies have five or six different committees to answer to; many with different priorities for them. This isn't to say that oversight's a bad thing, but a bit more efficiency would be nice. I doubt that Congress will ever yield the power, or the purse strings.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, July 26, 2010 7:16 AM

DREAMTROVE


It is necessary for the system to be sufficient complex that the people in it can never figure it out.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, July 26, 2010 8:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But "safety" and "security" were never what any of that massive growth and power-grap were about, were they? They were about power and authority, and who had it over whom, and who could exercise it, and how, and when, and where.

And nothing in any of these stories really addresses any of that, does it?



Good old NPR has had a couple of discussions about the problems of out-of-control congressional committee oversight on various security agencies. It's apparently to the point that the supposed overall directors of Homeland Security don't even know which (or how many) committees have oversight over which agencies. None of the committees wanted to give up their power when things were reorganized, so some agencies have five or six different committees to answer to; many with different priorities for them. This isn't to say that oversight's a bad thing, but a bit more efficiency would be nice. I doubt that Congress will ever yield the power, or the purse strings.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Y'know, you might be onto something there, Geez. I wonder what it would be like if we put those same committees who want the authority and the power and the purse strings the responsibility to PAY FOR those programs over which they preside. You know, YOU wanted this program, YOU go convince the voting public that you need to raise taxes to cover its expenses. Something like that. I wonder how that would go over...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Japanese Culture, S.Korea movies are now outselling American entertainment products
Sun, November 24, 2024 07:24 - 51 posts
Russia should never interfere in any other nation's internal politics, meanwhile the USA and IMF is helping kill Venezuela
Sun, November 24, 2024 07:22 - 102 posts
The parallel internet is coming
Sun, November 24, 2024 06:04 - 180 posts
Giant UFOs caught on videotape
Sun, November 24, 2024 05:43 - 8 posts
California on the road to Venezuela
Sun, November 24, 2024 05:41 - 26 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Sun, November 24, 2024 05:37 - 71 posts
MAGA movement
Sun, November 24, 2024 05:04 - 14 posts
Will Your State Regain It's Representation Next Decade?
Sun, November 24, 2024 03:53 - 113 posts
Any Conservative Media Around?
Sun, November 24, 2024 03:44 - 170 posts
Thread of Trump Appointments / Other Changes of Scenery...
Sun, November 24, 2024 03:40 - 42 posts
Where is the 25th ammendment when you need it?
Sun, November 24, 2024 01:01 - 18 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sat, November 23, 2024 23:46 - 4761 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL