'Gun control' is meant to keep guns out of the hands of black and brown people. by Wulfenstar

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:26 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

By their own admission, the large gun control advocacy groups want to eliminate all private gun ownership. Period.

However, the laws I have seen enacted seem designed to discriminate.

That is, Class based discrimination, NOT Race based.

A good example is California's "melting point" law regarding firearms. The law requires firearms to have a minimum melting point. Why on Earth should anyone care what the melting point of a firearm is? If it doesn't melt in your hands when you're shooting it or turn to goo when it's sitting in the sun, that should be the extent of anyone's concern.

However, the lawmakers and anti-gun establishment folks hit on the melting point issue when they realized that many of the so-called "Saturday Night Specials" aka Guns That Poor People Can Afford were built with metals that had a low melting point. Hence, they could outlaw inexpensive firearms by instituting this rediculous requirement.

I only learned about this when my favorite plinker manufacturer, Heritage Manufacturing, started selling a 'steel frame' revolver that was structurally identical to, but more expensive than, their regular models. Research uncovered the reason. Their regular models could not be sold in California. The steel frame (more expensive) revolver could be. Because of the melting point.

I have owned a Heritage Manufacturing single-action revolver since I turned 21. I can tell you that this 'Saturday Night Special' is not only incredibly reliable and accurate, but is also safer than most other single-action revolvers on the market. This is because it has a safety catch that implements a robust hammer block safety. This safety has the added benefit of making dry-fire safe for the firing pin, since you can cycle the gun just fine with the safety on, but the pin is never impacted. If you want to practice fast-draw, buy a Heritage .22.

The short version is this: They want all the guns, but they want the guns of the poor first.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:31 PM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Prove me wrong.

Im sick of dancing around the issue and pretending that it isnt there.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

You're right, the strickest gun control laws are in major citys were most people of color live. Chicago, DC, Detroit, you're right.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:36 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"You're right, the strickest gun control laws are in major citys were most people of color live. Chicago, DC, Detroit, you're right."

Hello,

And don't forget Miami. Predominately Hispanic population, and the gun control laws are draconian.

--Anthony

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:45 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Oh, and I forgot Phoenix. 42% Hispanic. And the Gun Control is staggering.

--Anthony

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:49 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Oh, darn. I also forgot Houston, Texas. Whozit, you wouldn't believe the crippling gun control in Houston. It's clearly because of the minorities being suppressed. 2000 Census shows 25% African American and 37% Hispanics.

--Anthony

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:50 PM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Oh, and I forgot Phoenix. 42% Hispanic. And the Gun Control is staggering.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

As a "big brain" you would know that people from South America are people of color, black, brown, tan. You "big brains" know that......right?

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Friday, July 23, 2010 1:53 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Oh, and I forgot Phoenix. 42% Hispanic. And the Gun Control is staggering.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
As a "big brain" you would know that people from South America are people of color, black, brown, tan. You "big brains" know that......right?

Um...

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 2:27 PM

TRAVELER

I guess all the black police officers we have in Milwaukee carry toy guns. They really should put red plastic tips on them. It is agaist the law to carry a toy gun without one.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, July 23, 2010 6:32 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Oh, and I forgot Phoenix. 42% Hispanic. And the Gun Control is staggering.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
As a "big brain" you would know that people from South America are people of color, black, brown, tan. You "big brains" know that......right?

As a "small brain", I take it you DON'T realize that South America doesn't necessarily share the same laws or recognize the same constitutional rights as the United States of America. You "small brains" know that, right? South America isn't the U.S.A.? You get that, I hope.

Or am I crazy? I thought we were discussing UNITED STATES gun laws. Is gun control EVERYWHERE designed to disarm people of color? Switzerland? Finland? Somalia? Australia? Nigeria? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Mexico?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 6:50 PM

Wulfie, you've officially crossed over into PNWorld™. This marks AT LEAST the fifth time you've pasted the same weak video agitprop piece into a post in a vain effort to get someone to agree with you that it's all about keeping guns from negroes.

Even *IF* someone were to concede that point (and I don't concede the point, not even for a second), consider for a moment how successful it's been. In another thread, you claim that everybody must be armed in order to remain polite. Then you cite the influx of crack cocaine as the moment when murder became some kind of "gangland chic". So, you have your armed-up mobs, Crips on one side, Bloods on the other, and they behave very much less than politely towards each other, and towards the equally armed-up police.

But what's more, they put the lie to the idea that gun control is about keeping guns out of the hands of people of color, because here are groups of largely black and hispanic members, and they are armed to the teeth!

If that's the idea of gun control, it's a dismal failure, and hardly even worthy of the time you've wasted trying to keep selling that hoary old urban legend. If your position is that gun control is coming for us all, I'd point to the armed gangs that already proved that it doesn't work at all, and say, "So what are you worried about?"

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:15 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

If your position is that gun control is coming for us all, I'd point to the armed gangs that already proved that it doesn't work at all, and say, "So what are you worried about?"

Hello,

To this narrow specific I can speak for my own concerns. I don't want to be in an armed gang, nor a criminal, nor do I have fantasies about asymmetric warfare with the authorities. So gun control does concern me. I never want to be in the position of choosing between the laws and my rights. I like them to be synonymous.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:31 PM

Quote:

As a "small brain", I take it you DON'T realize that South America doesn't necessarily share the same laws or recognize the same constitutional rights as the United States of America. You "small brains" know that, right? South America isn't the U.S.A.? You get that, I hope.

To be fair, South America can actually be fairly racist towards darker skin colours as well, though from the accounts of people who moved from South America to here, the US is in an entirely different league.

Quote:
If that's the idea of gun control, it's a dismal failure

Also to be fair, saying that a "if this was the real intention, then it must be a dismal failure (so it's probably not the real intention)" doesn't necessarily follow. Many real programs are, in fact, dismal failures - often because the people pushing such programs have unrealistic expectations and world views created by some truly mind-boggling agendas.

Gun control laws may very well have some dirty fingerprints all over them.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:00 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Or am I crazy? I thought we were discussing UNITED STATES gun laws. Is gun control EVERYWHERE designed to disarm people of color? Switzerland? Finland? Somalia? Australia? Nigeria? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Mexico?"

Hello,

Whozit is right, Mike. Somalians are almost entirely people of color, and they have some of the harshest gun control going in the third world. It's even worse than in Phoenix.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
However, the laws I have seen enacted seem designed to discriminate.

That is, Class based discrimination, NOT Race based.

Which is what it was all about, even when it WAS about race - it was just that at the time, and to some degree even now, minorities made up a substantial portion of the class being discriminated against.

To say it was entirely about race is a chewbacca-lives-on-endor-cause-he's-furry kind of logic that doesn't make sense when addressed in logical terms.

The "lords" of a society always, ALWAYS, want the "peons" disarmed for some pretty damn obvious reasons, and at the time those "peons" consisted almost exclusively of minorities - but if you think color matters to the powers that be save as a wedge to drive between the peons to set us at each others throats, think again, cause the only colors THEY care about are green and gold.

That said, if you want an inexpensive automatic of reasonable quality, get a Bersa.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:51 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"That said, if you want an inexpensive automatic of reasonable quality, get a Bersa."

Hello,

Now, Frem, I own two single-action revolvers and a double-barrel stagecoach gun. The most modern firearm in my arsenal is a 59 year old design. Whatever gave you the idea I'd ever buy a Bersa? Why don't I just get one of them new fangled space ray-guns while I'm at it? ;-)

j/k

I'll peek at them, but I'll probably keep my Makarov- the only semiauto I've carried in the past decade.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 4:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, with my left eye going wild and not really able to hit a bloody thing with my depth perception going, it's a bit of a moot point these days - although a Taurus Judge loaded with #4shot makes that REALLY moot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Judge

Plus there's the old Radom/Vis which was a gift from a friends grandfather, which supposedly has a very dark and bloody history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vis_pistol
That thing still creeps me the hell out, I've nerved myself up to clean it, but haven't dared to put it in hand and fire it - prolly never will.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 7:32 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
As a "big brain" you would know that people from South America are people of color, black, brown, tan

But I thought the theory was that gun control is harshest in big cities with high "black, brown, tan" populations? If Phoenix, Houston (where, omygawd, whites are in the MINORITY!!!), Miami, etc., where people of color are a large part of the population, have "horrendous" (he was being facetious, did you know?) gun laws, doesn't that kinda kill your theory?

The book "No Guns for Negroes" was written in 1962, at the height of the civil rights movement. I don't know when the film was made, but it's used in myriad websites with one specific aim: to push the agenda that CURRENTLY the mentality is "no guns for negroes". It's bullshit and you should find something ELSE, something of more value, to speak to current times.

Anthony is right; it's about class discrimination, not racism.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 10:25 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
As a "big brain" you would know that people from South America are people of color, black, brown, tan
But I thought the theory was that gun control is harshest in big cities with high "black, brown, tan" populations? If Phoenix, Houston (where, omygawd, whites are in the MINORITY!!!), Miami, etc., where people of color are a large part of the population, have "horrendous" (he was being facetious, did you know?) gun laws, doesn't that kinda kill your theory?

Niki, I think you're gonna have to spell it out just a little more clearly if W is gonna have any chance of getting Anthony's running gag (very funny, btw, Anthony).

I noticed that W's video quoted the "400 years of slavery" line from my post in the other thread where W called me a brainwashed fool. But I've figured it out now! All ya gotta do to get W onboard with anything you say is to tack on "and therefore we need MORE GUNS!" at the end of every paragraph and he'll say, "Darn tootin'" or "You get'm" or some such folksy assent. Here, lemme translate your post into Wolfenese:

Quote:
The book "No Guns for Negroes" was written in 1962, at the height of the civil rights movement. I don't know when the film was made, but it's used in myriad websites with one specific aim: to push the agenda that CURRENTLY the mentality is "no guns for negroes". It's bullshit and you should find something ELSE, something of more value, to speak to current times BECAUSE WE ABSOLUTELY NEED MORE GUNS, NOT LESS!

Anthony is right; it's about class discrimination, not racism, AND THEREFORE, WE NEED MORE GUNS!

See how it works? I suggest you adopt this strategy in all future posts. I know I will.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Well, with my left eye going wild and not really able to hit a bloody thing with my depth perception going,"

Hello Frem,

Get an eye-patch. My Dad's a fair shot despite losing the use of an eye as a young adult. I think you are suffering because your left eye is going, but not gone. Shut it off entirely, and you might actually get some improvement.

A humble suggestion, based on observation and not personal experience.

That Vis is a rare piece of history. It's a human affectation to assign emotions and karma to inanimate objects, but I totally understand your reluctance to casually employ a weapon dipped in a dark and bloody past.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:55 AM

I have no facts or opinions to draw on one way or another here. I do think class discrimination is probably a more accurate representation of the agenda at hand, if there is one.

So, a thought:

Quote:
But I thought the theory was that gun control is harshest in big cities with high "black, brown, tan" populations? If Phoenix, Houston (where, omygawd, whites are in the MINORITY!!!), Miami, etc., where people of color are a large part of the population, have "horrendous" (he was being facetious, did you know?) gun laws, doesn't that kinda kill your theory?

Maybe these cities have less gun control because the ethnic-minority majority votes to give themselves better access and protections for gun ownership than places where these ethnic groups are a minority.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 2:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Get an eye patch ?
Well shit, maybe I should get a parrot too!

Arrr!

And I just HAD to read that the day after buying a bigass bottle of Rum, with my erstwhile bratling readin over my shoulder - imma hear about this for WEEKS now, thankee...
*eyeroll*

As for the Radom/Vis - you ever hit a like, for lack of a better term, a "cold spot", some place where it just sends shivvers up your spine, like a psychic residue of horror ?
That piece is practically DRIPPING with it, I've pushed it across the table to fellow gunbunnies without warning them and just touching the hellblasted thing makes em skittish and nervous, NONE of them besides me can pick it up and hold it for more than a couple seconds.
Yuriko thinks it could be a form of Kami, spiritual impressions left on an object due to it's use - all I know is the thing gives me the wiggies.
Some things in this world don't seem to have a simple, scientific explaination no matter how much we'd really prefer if they would.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 1:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Get an eye patch ?
Well shit, maybe I should get a parrot too!

Arrr!

Shit, I'm glad you said it, 'cause I was thinking it!

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

As for the Radom/Vis - you ever hit a like, for lack of a better term, a "cold spot", some place where it just sends shivvers up your spine, like a psychic residue of horror ?
That piece is practically DRIPPING with it, I've pushed it across the table to fellow gunbunnies without warning them and just touching the hellblasted thing makes em skittish and nervous, NONE of them besides me can pick it up and hold it for more than a couple seconds.
Yuriko thinks it could be a form of Kami, spiritual impressions left on an object due to it's use - all I know is the thing gives me the wiggies.
Some things in this world don't seem to have a simple, scientific explaination no matter how much we'd really prefer if they would.

-Frem

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilWeapon

"How did these weapons come to be evil? Some were deliberately enchanted, or rather cursed. Some are imbued with the evil of their maker, some indeed, are the Soul Jar of an evil human, if not something worse. With some it's the material they were made of, and some were corrupted by deeds done with them, even worse than the usual cruelty of the battlefield."

If it starts talking to you, find a way to destroy it, fast.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:10 AM

DREAMTROVE

Wulf has a point.

Here's what I think the liberal thinking on this issue is, and I say this as someone who is not a 2A fan myself, but I think this is the left doing it, and this is their logic:

1. Gang violence bad.
2. Lots of blacks dying.
3. Take away their guns.

This betrays a certain racist attitude that blackness means you are not responsible with your firearms and need someone else to determine whether or not you can have them, it's very white man knows best.

But I think Wulf is right that this is race based, not class. There are gunned poor whites all over the place. It's poor inner urban, by which they mean black, it's just that they can't legally *say* black.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:26 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Thanks DT.

I hate the idea of a government wishing to control the populace in any sense.

But whats even worse?

A governement that wishes to control a certain race... and then, because of the political fallout associated with saying what they REALLY want...

they lie.

Gun control, has layers upon layers. You cant say "I think black and brown people are childlike and unable to have the responsibililty of weapons.."

So they try and hoodwink people by making it that "Guns kill people".

2 birds with one stone.

1. You try and disarm the ENTIRE populace, therby removing the threat of (while you are trying to become a tyrant) the people can kill you.

2. You remove the ability of a race to defend themselves FROM themselves, thereby creating a slave like people, beholden and dependant on the gov. to save, feed, clothe, protect them.

AND, you keep them in such a state that they are grateful for the scraps you throw them and will always be on your side.

A gun is a tool. Its a tool to protect yourself and your loved ones... but its also a tool to remove evil people from the populace and from government.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:37 AM

I suppose it could go hand in hand with other racial profiling and discrimination performed by police forces with jurisdiction in those areas, and the points I made about the ethnic minorities not having the representation to keep their stuff.

The letter of the law supposedly targets everyone equally in the areas, possibly including poor whites and white gang members, but the law enforcement is more likely still to go after the blacks and latinos.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

DT, I disagree, strongly. As only one liberal, my view is more:

1) The wrong people have guns (gangs, not blacks, stupid people and criminals)

2) People who get guns who are NOT among the above usually don't know how to use them properly

3) Guns in the hands of ALL the above leaves open too much chance of drunken violence, rage violence, family violence, stupid violence, group violence, accidental violence.

4) The wrong people above, I don't think of as all Black, or even MOSTLY Black, but people who are afraid or are bullies (which also means afraid) or live in desperate circumstances. People who are afraid who are armed are too much a potential for violence.

5) The places people need guns because so many others have them, I have no particular problemw with them having guns; in such a situation, whatever means of self-protection they can get, they deserve.

It has nothing to do with Black or White for me, it has to do with looser gun laws making it easier for the wrong people to own guns.

Just FYI, Jim has a number of guns. As a child, his family were hunters; now he wouldn't be caught dead hunting, but he likes guns (which, accept it or not, IS mostly a "guy thing" as much as knives are). Given it's been decades since he shot one, I don't think going up against an intruder with a gun would give him any sort of advantage. But they make him feel safer, so I have no objection.

So maybe it IS class, I can't say. I fear George next door having a gun as much as I fear anyone of any other color; he's an idiot, although he doesn't do coke anymore he still gets drunk, he used to beat his wife, and I think a gun in his hands would be awful.

I fear the thinking of someone carrying a gun, not the gun itself; maybe it's that I don't trust the vast majority of humans more than anything eles, but that's how I see it.

And I don't believe your points hold true for the majority of people of any color or political leaning.

ETA: I actually think it might well be representative of gun bunnies to believe it's about race, and BELIEVE that's what liberals think.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:50 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2530358,59hours-chicago-shooting-07
2410.article

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:53 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

You attempt to murder me, I kill you.

I go to jail.

How is that right Nix?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Thanks DT.

I hate the idea of a government wishing to control the populace in any sense.

But whats even worse?

A governement that wishes to control a certain race... and then, because of the political fallout associated with saying what they REALLY want...

they lie.

You've just wonderfully summarized my problems with Arizona's SB 1070. Odd that you can't see it that way yourself... Of course, you don't REALLY mind controlling black and brown people; you just like using that language to prop up your pet little cause: gun rights. You could give a fuck about these people or their OTHER rights, and you know it.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:57 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

For the record, my children will be considered "brown".

I intend (if I live long enough) to train them much like "HitGirl".

So Im getting a kick out of these responses.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:05 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:16 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahhh, the simplicity of WulfWorld...

Meanwhile, back in reality...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:19 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Things really are not simple...

Unless you make them that way...

Yes, btw, I know that the moves in that scene are ridiculous...

But...

My kids will be able, ready and willing to fight, kill, and die, to protect the innocent.

They will have the tools to do so, the training to be able, and the WILL to bring the first 2 together.

So its whatever.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:01 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Hookay. Lots of stuff to reply to.

Niki-

"The wrong people have guns"

The only people the government can control are the people who obey the law. Removing legal access to firearms has the consequence of impacting primarily those people who routinely follow laws. But this is not your target group. Outlawing firearms would absolutely reduce the amount of guns available, but it would also ensure that the civilian population only had one armed group: Criminals. This is not my desired dynamic.

"People who get guns who are NOT among the above usually don't know how to use them properly"

I have a real issue with the lack of gun safety I see in the gun-toting population of the world. This includes the police. However, as to the actual functioning of the weapon, I find that most people who own a gun have the basic knowledge of its mechanics. They can generally load, unload, and fire it. They can generally hit the broad side of a barn. I think this is because most gun owners have taken their guns to a shooting range at some point and operated it. The most likely crisis in a stressful situation is that the operator will forget to disengage the safety or be fumbling with the storage/locking mechanism.

"Given it's been decades since he shot one, I don't think going up against an intruder with a gun would give him any sort of advantage."

I would wager that, if he ever used the firearms in question, he probably remembers how to operate them. So if he can get at it when he needs it, then it will be an advantage otherwise absent. However, given that most people are not prepared for danger when it comes, there's a real chance that the weapon will be stowed away out of reach or unloaded when he needs it. Operating a gun with precision in a crisis is a science. So is competition sprinting. However, I advocate running even to non-experts if they want to get away from something. I also advocate being armed when under attack, even to non-experts, as I consider it preferable to the alternative. Even if it just gives you one chance in a hundred to survive, it's a chance I'd argue in favor of.

In Anthonyworld, Gun training would be an elective in High School offered alongside Driver's Education (another dangerous machine requiring training to operate properly.) The populace would recognize the validity of the idea that everyone might like to be armed. Training in safety and operation would be ubiquitous and encouraged. Just as safety is stressed in Driver's Ed, it would be stressed in Firearms 101. No one would be trying to eliminate the right of gun ownership, and without that threat, everyone would be happy for common-sense regulation.

I don't think I'll ever live in this world, though. As long as there are people arguing that no one should have guns, I'm forced into the ludicrous opposite extreme of suggesting that everyone should have guns. The opposing tug of war hopefully results in good reasonable gun laws. But if the gun-bunnies started from the position of reasonable regulation, then the 'compromise' result with the 'no gun' extremists would put a stranglehold on gun ownership, carry, and use. This is why you see crazies on one end saying 'guns for everyone' and crazies on the other end saying 'guns for no-one.' Everyone knows that the laws will be the result of compromise, and so everyone is trying to yank the tiller as hard as they can in their desired direction.

"IS mostly a "guy thing" as much as knives are"

Hogwash. This is social programming. Most girls I've exposed to shooting have enjoyed it and eventually wanted a firearm of their own. If you taught girls to shoot and gave them pocketknives, they'd enjoy those things. I'm so frustrated with the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts for this reason. They operate on stereotypes. The Boy Scouts need high-profile Cooking and Baking badges and the Girl Scouts need Knife and Rifle badges. And in fact, preferably there wouldn't be any such thing as 'Boy' scouts and 'Girl' scouts. It'd just be Scouts. That way you get kids who can bake brownies AND operate a rifle proficiently. And cut rope and tie knots and etcetera. Every time I see a boy baby bundled in blue or a girl baby bundled in pink I think, "It has begun."

Wulf-

"I intend (if I live long enough) to train them much like "HitGirl"."

The idea that anyone would watch that movie and think, "Ah, ha! That's how I want to teach my kids" is appalling. You need to understand that the sort of programming given to that girl is extremely harmful, and the parenting was massively negligent. Please do not hold this movie up as an ideal of parenting.

"My kids will be able, ready and willing to fight, kill, and die, to protect the innocent."

This is another alarming statement. Programming children to fight, kill, and die. None of those should be in the top spot of any child curriculum. You should not see this as the proud ultimate goal of your parenting. At best, these concepts should be understood as a possible woeful necessity, to be taught well after the child understands things like compassion, ethics, responsibility, and restraint.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Things really are not simple...

Unless you make them that way...

Yes, btw, I know that the moves in that scene are ridiculous...

But...

My kids will be able, ready and willing to fight, kill, and die, to protect the innocent.

They will have the tools to do so, the training to be able, and the WILL to bring the first 2 together.

So its whatever.

You *HOPE* they'll have all those things. They might have autism, or they might have Downs. You don't KNOW any of what you claim. You HOPE. And you can't *MAKE* your kids anything at all. The more you try, the more they'll slip away, like sand in your fist.

But go for it. I'm convinced you'll end up with a bunch of hippie-libs for your trouble. :)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
For the record, my children will be considered "brown".

I intend (if I live long enough) to train them much like "HitGirl".

So Im getting a kick out of these responses.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

:O

OMG, Wulf. That's... That's not a good thing. Did you notice at the end of the movie when that police guy and KickAss are trying to help her lead a more normal life? And when that same police guy comes in and tells the father that he's taking away her childhood?

I know you didn't get much of a childhood, Wulf, but isn't part of the responsibility of a parent about trying to give your kids more than what you might have had? >_>

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:19 AM

Quote:
Hogwash. This is social programming. Most girls I've exposed to shooting have enjoyed it and eventually wanted a firearm of their own. If you taught girls to shoot and gave them pocketknives, they'd enjoy those things. I'm so frustrated with the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts for this reason. They operate on stereotypes. The Boy Scouts need high-profile Cooking and Baking badges and the Girl Scouts need Knife and Rifle badges. And in fact, preferably there wouldn't be any such thing as 'Boy' scouts and 'Girl' scouts. It'd just be Scouts. That way you get kids who can bake brownies AND operate a rifle proficiently. And cut rope and tie knots and etcetera. Every time I see a boy baby bundled in blue or a girl baby bundled in pink I think, "It has begun."

As someone who rejected that programming from the beginning and who even still refuses to conform to requests to be "more like a lady," I have to confirm the validity of this statement.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:36 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I had a grouping of about 2 inches this weekend, on the run, at about 30 feet (.40 btw... kind of proud of that)

I expect my kids to do better. :)

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:49 AM

Okay, so, you just mean like in the sense of target practice, and not shooting them while they're wearing a bullet proof vest or sequestering them away from the world and the friendship of people their own age for as long as they can remember. That's okay. Target practice is okay. Panic attack fading.

You might not want to call that that "HitGirl style parenting" because that means something very different than just teaching your kid how to handle a firearm well.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:51 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Well, hitting them with low velocity rounds... not such a bad idea. (KIDDING!!!....maybe. Hell, even wearing a vest and being hit with a .22 HURTS. Not much fun, but at least you arnt scared of it anymore. I think they should do that in military training... if they dont already...)

The sequestering away thing, hell no. (How lese are they going to learn about people,,, the one needing saving and the ones needing to be dealt with,,, hhehehehe Kidding... sort of)

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 12:10 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
My kids will be able, ready and willing to fight, kill, and die, to protect the innocent.

They will have the tools to do so, the training to be able, and the WILL to bring the first 2 together.

That is such a joke! Obviously you don't have kids. They may have no interest in guns; they may like them too much; you'll have no control over their "will"; even if you control them to the absolute best of your ability (gawd forbid), you can't MOLD them to be what you want. Only in the fantasies of WulfWorld...

Back to the real world:

Silly Anthony, everyone knows the old caveat about "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". Doesn't need saying.

As to "how to use them", I meant some of what you said, but more than that, how to shoot at a living, moving target with any competence. I'm trying to say that even if they come up against a robber, etc., who is armed, the robber has the advantage because they USE guns--even against someone with a knife, given some circumstances, they could be disarmed and having their own gun pointed at them.

I certainly don't want gun safety taught as a compulsory class in school! Parents should be responsible for training their kids in gun safety, not the school system, in my opinion. Everyone uses cars, not everyone owns guns. If Jim's son had gotten gun safety in school, believe me, he'd have found a way to get a gun. He was totally violence obsessed, weapon obsessed, and had rages. I thank gawd he didn't have access to one until he was an adult.

Of course Jim knows how to OPERATE a gun; my argument was...well, see above. You said it yourself: "Operating a gun with precision in a crisis is a science." I don't think the majority of gun owners are well versed in that science.

As to boy and girl scouts, I agree wholeheartedly: Scouts. But are scouts old enough to get "gun badges?" I thought boy and girl scounts didn't continue much into high school...?

As to a "guy" thing; I was speaking of the realities in today's society. I don't argue that exposure would change it (don't know if you read my post about how males and females reacted to my snakes), I made the point that, society as it is, males are encouraged to like guns, weapons, etc. I hate it too when kids are programmed from that first blanket on, or programmed at ALL into a mental framework of their sex; I'm just talking about how it IS, and it takes individual thinking to break out. I've ridden a motorcycle since I was 16--many women do now, but back then it was unusual. Society takes time to evolve.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, July 26, 2010 12:31 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I certainly don't want gun safety taught as a compulsory class in school!"

Hello,

I think the term 'elective' suggests that the class would not be compulsory. These sorts of electives actually require parental approval due to liability concerns. In fact, there is precious little that I think ought to be compulsory in school, but perhaps that's better suited to an education centered thread.

"Everyone uses cars, not everyone owns guns."

Well, not everyone uses cars, either. I know several people who don't drive.

"If Jim's son had gotten gun safety in school, believe me, he'd have found a way to get a gun."

I'm not sure how a gun safety class makes a difference as to whether the kid can get a gun. It's not like Driver's Ed gives kids the magical ability to get cars. But if you don't think he's mature enough for such a class, the answer is easy- don't send him to one. That's totally a parental perogative thing.

"But are scouts old enough to get "gun badges?" I thought boy and girl scounts didn't continue much into high school...?"

The Boy Scouts can be continued right up until graduation from High School, and it is in High School when determined Scouts reach the pinnacle of their training: The Eagle Scout classification. Achieving this classification is actually a big deal and is resume-worthy. It involves the completion of a large social benefit project. Someone in my son's troop actually organized the construction of a community park as his Eagle Scout project. And yes, the Scouts offer firearms training and safety certification to their membership. Archery, too.

I actually feel very bad about the Girl Scouts. Their training is a pale shadow of the Boy Scout training. I also lament the increasing tendency of these organizations to turn children into salespeople, pushing the company product. I know activities need to be paid for, but I can never escape the feeling that the children are being exploited somehow when they are pushed to sell something.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 12:38 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 12:54 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Everyone uses cars, not everyone owns guns." In California and most Western states, virtually everyone owns a car.

"I'm not sure how a gun safety class makes a difference as to whether the kid can get a gun"--no, but it can make a difference in how much a kid might WANT a gun.

As to scouts and firearm training, I don't know what the ages are for kids to own guns in various states, but I no more want a teenager handling a gun than I want them driving a car. Yes, they do, but I don't want to be around them when they do, training or not!

I agree about the selling aspect, tho' I'm awfully glad they sell their "thin mints" or whatever they are...well, "glad" may not be the right word actually; I'm addicted to them and the little monsters are right there when I exit the supermarket...sigh...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, July 26, 2010 1:05 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Girls/women

Children

Old folks

Black/Brown folks

Need to have and know how to operate weaponry more than anyone else.

We all do, but these catagories of humans need it more than anyone else.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 1:18 PM