WikiLeaks strikes again by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

WikiLeaks strikes again

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:22
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Monday, July 26, 2010 6:33 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm kinda on the fence when it comes to WikiLeaks. Whaddya think?

Quote:
Whistleblower website WikiLeaks has published what it says are about 76,000 United States military and diplomatic reports about Afghanistan filed between 2004 and January of this year.

The firsthand accounts are the military's own raw data on the war, including numbers killed, casualties, threat reports and the like, according to Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks.org, which published the material Sunday. On Monday Assange said the leaked reports from Afghanistan appear to contain "evidence of war crimes."

"This material does not leave anyone smelling like roses, especially the Taliban," he said, also implying that some U.S. troops had behaved improperly.

CNN has not independently confirmed the authenticity of the documents. The Department of Defense will not comment on them until the Pentagon has had a chance to look at them, a Defense official told CNN.

White House National Security Adviser Gen. James Jones, who was among those offering reaction to the large document document, issued a statement Sunday calling the documents' release "irresponsible."

"The United States strongly condemns the disclosure of classified information by individuals and organizations which could put the lives of
Americans and our partners at risk and threaten our national security," the statement said.

There's a whole lot of information in the documents and we're digging through them with you to get a sense of what's in them, what new information we're learning about the war in Afghanistan, and what the big takeaways are that you need to know about.

What are we learning from the documents?

WikiLeaks released the documents to The Guardian, The New York Times and Der Spiegel before any other media outlets, and they had a chance to look ahead of time. Each news organization concentrated on different angles, but here are some highlights:

THE GUARDIAN

The Guardian put together an interactive map using data from the WikiLeaks documents to show and detail what it deemed were several significant events from the logs for users to examine in greater detail.

The paper also dug into many other issues the WikiLeaks material offered information about including:

On Osama Bin Laden: The Guardian examined documents that allegedly link bin Laden to several incidents between 2004 and 2009.

Examples:
– Osama Bin Laden reported to have issued orders to suicide bombers in Afghanistan
– Afghanistan war logs: Bin Laden instigates suicide attack against Afghan President Hamid Karzai, according to U.S. report

On civilian casualties: Many of the documents deal with civilian casualties, whether from air strikes, at roadblocks or in other circumstances.

Example:
–Special forces wound two, kill six, including young girl, plus donkey and chickens

On Pakistan ties: Several documents that The Guardian highlights indicate the fingerprints of Pakistan's ISI spy agency on some Taliban activity.

Example:
–Pakistan's spies accused of arming Taliban ally with motorbikes for suicide attacks

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:01 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I don't trust him or his motives but I only know WL from the helicopter gunship video and this.
Just dumping all of this data seems like lazy journalism though. "You guys figure it all out while I do interviews."
If you want to say something based on what you were given then make the case. If you want real journalists to make the points, then give it to them and stay off the tube.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't trust him or his motives but I only know WL from the helicopter gunship video and this.
Just dumping all of this data seems like lazy journalism though. "You guys figure it all out while I do interviews."
If you want to say something based on what you were given then make the case. If you want real journalists to make the points, then give it to them and stay off the tube.

Actually, I PREFER they just dump the raw data. That way, we're not getting some news org's agenda or message; we're just getting the data, and we have to decide for ourselves what it means.

Someone was comparing this data dump to the Pentagon Papers, which doesn't sound far off the mark to me. It's been postulated for a while now that if we really KNEW what the fuck was going on, we wouldn't be so quick to cheerlead our soldiers into war. So more info is good, if you ask me.

The biggest problem anyone had with that helicopter video on WL wasn't that it was inflammatory or inaccurate; it was that it was too REAL. That's the real and ugly face of war, and most people don't want to see it, don't want to be reminded of it, don't want it thrust into their living rooms and their faces at dinnertime. It tends to be a real buzz-kill. And it fucking well should be. War is hell. It's not pretty, and it's not clean and clinical. There's no such thing as a "surgical strike" - just strikes that require lots and lots of surgeries to try to put the victims back together.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:26 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't trust him or his motives but I only know WL from the helicopter gunship video and this.
Just dumping all of this data seems like lazy journalism though. "You guys figure it all out while I do interviews."
If you want to say something based on what you were given then make the case. If you want real journalists to make the points, then give it to them and stay off the tube.

Actually, I PREFER they just dump the raw data. That way, we're not getting some news org's agenda or message; we're just getting the data, and we have to decide for ourselves what it means.

Someone was comparing this data dump to the Pentagon Papers, which doesn't sound far off the mark to me. It's been postulated for a while now that if we really KNEW what the fuck was going on, we wouldn't be so quick to cheerlead our soldiers into war. So more info is good, if you ask me.

The biggest problem anyone had with that helicopter video on WL wasn't that it was inflammatory or inaccurate; it was that it was too REAL. That's the real and ugly face of war, and most people don't want to see it, don't want to be reminded of it, don't want it thrust into their living rooms and their faces at dinnertime. It tends to be a real buzz-kill. And it fucking well should be. War is hell. It's not pretty, and it's not clean and clinical. There's no such thing as a "surgical strike" - just strikes that require lots and lots of surgeries to try to put the victims back together.

I like you point on the dump in terms of not getting it from MSM, but I don't think any of us (very few) will sift through it to make any kind of sense of it - will you? The majority will still get it from NBC/CNN/FOX.
Now if I was Taliban I would have a bunch of people sifting through it and doing white boards presentations.

I must be out of touch because it seems like your point about the helicopter footage, aren't we beyond that by now? Doesn't everyone know that war is FUCKING HELL since Vietnam and Deer Hunter ad infinitum? If people are so naive to think our guys are saints or that really bad sh*t doesn't happen in war zones, then I have little faith any footage of real ugliness will make any lasting impression beyond, "oh good heavens, we shouldn't do that!"

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:37 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

I must be out of touch because it seems like your point about the helicopter footage, aren't we beyond that by now? Doesn't everyone know that war is FUCKING HELL since Vietnam and Deer Hunter ad infinitum?

Seems a silly question, really. There are lots of things people know. That doesn't mean they actually think about it. Sometimes you have to put it in their face and force them to.

We now have an entire generation of kids who were not around for Vietnam, have never heard of the Deer Hunter, and have grown up in an America where war is standard but it (was) illegal to show a troop's casket on TV.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

But as to dumping raw data...and leaving video footage out of it...how do we know it's "raw data" from any source? Has it been backed up by reliable sources, or is it just someone's opinion or made up to back up someone's opinion? Do we know if it's been checked out, or just thrown out there willy nilly? That's something I wonder about.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:50 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

I must be out of touch because it seems like your point about the helicopter footage, aren't we beyond that by now? Doesn't everyone know that war is FUCKING HELL since Vietnam and Deer Hunter ad infinitum?

Seems a silly question, really. There are lots of things people know. That doesn't mean they actually think about it. Sometimes you have to put it in their face and force them to.

Riiiight, because all of the stuff we've kept in people's faces did wonders keeping us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Face it, it really doesn't matter what Americans see.
This will fade and in the end it will only have fed MSM. It'll give them a few months to push related stories and sell more Hondas and Dell computers... wiki dude probably works for an ad agency.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, July 26, 2010 8:54 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Doesn't everyone know that war is FUCKING HELL since Vietnam and Deer Hunter ad infinitum?"

Hello,

Everyone knows that Vietnam was hell, and possibly Korea. But there is still the idea of the Just and Righteous War left over from WWII. A clean war with good guys and bad guys. I remember watching the first Gulf War with a Ra-Ra-aren't-we-badass mindset.

Defending Kuwait! Bombing Baghdad!
Come at 'em straight! There's glory to be had!
Git Saddam! Look at those tanks!
Zoom! Wham! Our unstoppable ranks!
Yay Uncle Sam! Wave our Flag!

... Don't show footage of that body bag...
Vietnam is come and gone, but we need to remember- It's been here all along.

As to Wikileaks, it's a great idea... But I think it will become (if it's not already) a tool serving the monster it purports to monitor. Time will tell, I suppose.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 9:22 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
But as to dumping raw data...and leaving video footage out of it...how do we know it's "raw data" from any source? Has it been backed up by reliable sources, or is it just someone's opinion or made up to back up someone's opinion? Do we know if it's been checked out, or just thrown out there willy nilly? That's something I wonder about.

I've been following wikileaks since they came online. I've seen all kinds of interesting documents, and I've followed a few legal battles fought against them. I tell you Niki - I trust them more than I do any MSM source.

Wikileaks is not just one anti-war guy looking for fame, as I saw it portrayed yesterday by some of the MSM. It's actually a whole cadre of anonymous people who really know their shit, both legally and politically. They are not anti-war; they are pro-transparency. They are not anti-America. In fact, I believe they were first set up with China in mind. But I've seen them fight off legal challenges, and I tell you, these people are good. They've won because the documents they release are, with a few exceptions, absolutely real.

As far as I've seen, they have an impressive system set up for collecting leaked documents and for checking authenticity. The site has two kinds of releases. First, "leaks". They post the actual document, as is. (Except maybe for redacted names to protect sources or the privacy of individuals.) Usually, all that's posted with the document is a brief, general description of where it came from (they never name the actual source; often, they don't even know.) In the first release, they call for anyone who might know about the document and it's authenticity. It is never blindly assumed that the document is real.

The second step is to post analysis of the leaked document. This is generally brief. What I like about wikileaks: they rarely tell you what to think. They only provide the information and their reasons for believing the information is real, or not. They let you look at it and decide the meaning for yourself.

I have in fact seen wikileaks post fake documents, and catch it. In the analysis, they provide a full description of why they think the document is fake. This can be quite entertaining.

I have never seen them post something that they pass as authentic, then later have to take back. Again, they are a whole large (mostly anonymous) group, and they check things carefully.

In the case of the "Afghan War Diary" wikileaks has only released documents through 2009, and only those that no longer secret (so I've heard). They've held back thousands of more sensitive documents and will keep them until they are no longer classified. I agree with their choice not to analyze these. With the helicopter video, the (rather poor) intro they put on the video served to distract. People attacked that rather than discussing the video's actual content.

If you want to see the documents themselves and form your own ideas, they seem to be available at wikileaks.org. The site is pretty slow right now, and I haven't been open the link yet--they're probably flooded. Probably under attack, also. But I would bet they discuss the steps they've taken as far as establishing authenticity of the documents.

You can also wait to see what the US govt says. Just like the helicopter shooting, I bet they'll have to admit that these docs are real.

For more info about wikileaks, the wikipedia page is pretty good. It's a fascinating organization. From wikipedia:

WikiLeaks states that it has never released a misattributed document. Documents are assessed before release. In response to concerns about the possibility of misleading or fraudulent leaks, Wikileaks has stated that misleading leaks "are already well-placed in the mainstream media. [Wikileaks] is of no additional assistance." The FAQ states that: "The simplest and most effective countermeasure is a worldwide community of informed users and editors who can scrutinize and discuss leaked documents."

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, July 26, 2010 9:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

WikiLeaks lives with the mindset that the real world can be treated like a court room, and that the mere concept of having covert ops in a hostile environment ( war ) is a kin to one lawyer " cheating the system " by not fully disclosing all his evidence to the other side in a trial.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 10:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rip open the inner workings. Don't care if you call it transparency, sunshine, or treason... if government can't tell you what it's doing then it doesn't deserve to be doing it.

Don't forget Rappy- they're supposed to be working for us, not the other way around. The only good democracy is INFORMED democracy.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:26 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Wikileaks is not just one anti-war guy looking for fame, as I saw it portrayed yesterday by some of the MSM. It's actually a whole cadre of anonymous people who really know their shit, both legally and politically. They are not anti-war; they are pro-transparency. They are not anti-America. In fact, I believe they were first set up with China in mind.

Go to their site and look at the list of recent analyses. There are maybe 5 out of more than 400 that reference China. One references Russia. Try searching for Burma, Myanmar, Somalia, Iran, or any other world trouble spot. Then look at the number that reference the US or US agencies.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rip open the inner workings. Don't care if you call it transparency, sunshine, or treason... if government can't tell you what it's doing then it doesn't deserve to be doing it.

Don't forget Rappy- they're supposed to be working for us, not the other way around. The only good democracy is INFORMED democracy.

Yeah? And who exposes the workings of al Qaeda? N.Korea ? Iran ? China ?

All brave and noble are those who want to uncover all the bad stuff WE'RE allegedly doing, but there's 2 sides to the story, always. And yet, these do gooders ? Seem to only want to pull back the curtain on half the stage. Wonder why that is.....

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:45 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Wikileaks is not just one anti-war guy looking for fame, as I saw it portrayed yesterday by some of the MSM. It's actually a whole cadre of anonymous people who really know their shit, both legally and politically. They are not anti-war; they are pro-transparency. They are not anti-America. In fact, I believe they were first set up with China in mind.

Go to their site and look at the list of recent analyses. There are maybe 5 out of more than 400 that reference China. One references Russia. Try searching for Burma, Myanmar, Somalia, Iran, or any other world trouble spot. Then look at the number that reference the US or US agencies.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Sure, what anyone starts out to do isn't likely to be where they end up. What I've caught from wikipedia over the past few years hasn't involved China. I've mostly caught stuff about Scientology, off-shore banks, English universities and frightening little towns in Texas (the Smith County thing. Anyone ever read that book?)

But you're right, Geezer, that wikipedia seems to release more and more US-govt focused documents as they go.

The fact that most of the noteworthy leaked material is coming from the US, not China, carries a message all its own, now doesn't it?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, July 26, 2010 3:50 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
All brave and noble are those who want to uncover all the bad stuff WE'RE allegedly doing, but there's 2 sides to the story, always. And yet, these do gooders ? Seem to only want to pull back the curtain on half the stage. Wonder why that is.....

Because we can't do anything about Other People that doesn't involve becoming the Dictatorship we (RWA: profess to) hate. But we do, always, no matter what, have responsibility and power over our own actions. (Except if you're Rap or any of the other RWA right wing.)

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, July 26, 2010 4:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Oh yeah... if WE do right, then the enemies who want to destroy us and take down our way of life.... they'll have a come to Allah moment? Start seein' us as just regular folk, and not try to blow us up or cause any harm, huh?

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Monday, July 26, 2010 7:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Yeah? And who exposes the workings of al Qaeda? N.Korea ? Iran ? China ?

All brave and noble are those who want to uncover all the bad stuff WE'RE allegedly doing, but there's 2 sides to the story, always. And yet, these do gooders ? Seem to only want to pull back the curtain on half the stage. Wonder why that is.....

Because its OUR government, goofus. Yeah, I'd like sunshine all around the world. But I don't have any say in "all around the world".

Ijit.

Quote:
Oh yeah... if WE do right, then the enemies who want to destroy us and take down our way of life.... they'll have a come to Allah moment? Start seein' us as just regular folk, and not try to blow us up or cause any harm, huh?

No. That's what self-defense it all about.

Double ijit.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 9:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Go to their site and look at the list of recent analyses. There are maybe 5 out of more than 400 that reference China. One references Russia. Try searching for Burma, Myanmar, Somalia, Iran, or any other world trouble spot. Then look at the number that reference the US or US agencies."

Hello,

I suspect the more totalitarian regimes have fewer people leaking stuff. Deep throat gets strangled in places like China and such.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, July 26, 2010 9:45 PM

DMAANLILEILTT

a couple o' things: 1)it was 92,201 documents that wikileaks released in association with The New York Times, The Guradian and Der Spiegel. and

2) it was allegedly founded by Chinese dissidents and journalists around the world and its director is now Australian journalist Julian Assange.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Monday, July 26, 2010 11:40 PM

CATPIRATE

Nobody likes a rat.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:49 AM

KANEMAN

Noting the media outlets this guy leaked this to. I have to wonder if journolist was involved......

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:36 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
On Pakistan ties: Several documents that The Guardian highlights indicate the fingerprints of Pakistan's ISI spy agency on some Taliban activity.

Example:
–Pakistan's spies accused of arming Taliban ally with motorbikes for suicide attacks

This is fairly obvious. The Pakistan ISI trained mujahideen like Osama bin Laden during the Kashmir conflict, and when they went to Afghanistan they fought the Soviets. When the soviets left, there were three groups, the northern Alliance, Al Qaeda (which works internationally), and the Taliban. Have not been able to conclude whether Taliban and majahideen were allies during driving off the soviets. It seems the Taliban arose after. Also have been inconclusive in regards to whether Taliban and Al Qaeda saw each other as allies afterward, or rivals for control of the region. In either case, it seems to me that Taliban did not have much jurisdictional control over the regions where Al Qaeda hid out.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mal4, thank you for the information, I really appreciate it. It helps me determine how much I trust things like Wikileaks when trying to sift through the rubble to find the truth. I still won't trust them entirely, any more than I trust any other source, but all the things I've read here help.

For me, most of the things I've heard that came out in those papers, we already knew. It's sensationalistic to find out how much was known and done, but I haven't heard anything new yet. Good for America in general to find out probably, because we need "out" of both countries, and more, and I'm all in favor of transparency! The more the people know, good AND bad, the better for the country.

"if WE do right, then the enemies who want to destroy us and take down our way of life.... they'll have a come to Allah moment? Start seein' us as just regular folk, and not try to blow us up or cause any harm, huh?" So we should take up waterboarding and torture, you're saying? I thought you guys were for following the Constitution and doing things the American Way...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:29 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Yeah? And who exposes the workings of al Qaeda? N.Korea ? Iran ? China ?

All brave and noble are those who want to uncover all the bad stuff WE'RE allegedly doing, but there's 2 sides to the story, always. And yet, these do gooders ? Seem to only want to pull back the curtain on half the stage. Wonder why that is.....
Because its OUR government, goofus. Yeah, I'd like sunshine all around the world. But I don't have any say in "all around the world".

Ijit.
Quote:
Oh yeah... if WE do right, then the enemies who want to destroy us and take down our way of life.... they'll have a come to Allah moment? Start seein' us as just regular folk, and not try to blow us up or cause any harm, huh?
No. That's what self-defense it all about.

Double ijit.

Why do right-wing whackos like Rappy always point to totalitarian dictatorships when they try to tell us how we should be running this country? "Oh yeah? Well you couldn't do that kind of crap in North Korea! Or China! Or if you were in Al Qaeda!"

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:31 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Wikileaks is not just one anti-war guy looking for fame, as I saw it portrayed yesterday by some of the MSM. It's actually a whole cadre of anonymous people who really know their shit, both legally and politically. They are not anti-war; they are pro-transparency. They are not anti-America. In fact, I believe they were first set up with China in mind.

Go to their site and look at the list of recent analyses. There are maybe 5 out of more than 400 that reference China. One references Russia. Try searching for Burma, Myanmar, Somalia, Iran, or any other world trouble spot. Then look at the number that reference the US or US agencies.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Of course, that very well COULD indicate that we're deeply involved in every "trouble spot" on the globe. Or that we ARE the number one trouble spot.

It's all in how you look at it...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:32 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by CatPirate:
Nobody likes a rat.

Except a snake.

Or a scientist.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:38 AM

KWICKO

And looked at from yet another direction, WikiLeaks is being compared in a lot of places to The Pentagon Papers, with Assange cast as this generation's Daniel Ellsworth.

Of course, now the President has the ability to order him assassinated if he so desires...

And if you look at these documents as analogous to The Pentagon Papers, it just might be that these documents were "leaked" on purpose, to serve an agenda of getting the fuck out of Vietnamistan ASAP. If you can show the people that there's no win, no glory, and no hope, they're more likely to start clamoring for a hasty exit.

So that's one more way of looking at this leak, and at WikiLeaks in general.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:46 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh yeah... if WE do right, then the enemies who want to destroy us and take down our way of life.... they'll have a come to Allah moment? Start seein' us as just regular folk, and not try to blow us up or cause any harm, huh?

Actually... YES. That's the general theory. Hey, we could've put German soldiers in concentration camps in WWII. We could've tortured Japanese soldiers and marched them to death. We could have used them all as slave labor and starved them to death. Instead, we treated them as people, as our fellow human beings. Ask some of those former POWs how they feel about us now, in the aftermath of how they were treated.

Your argument is that our enemies are monsters, so we must become monsters in order to battle them. You've never once realized that in doing so, in becoming what you hate most about your enemy, you become your own worst enemy.

Why do you obey any of the laws in this country? I mean, you don't do so in the hopes of setting any kind of example, do you? After all, what's the point? It's not like anyone's going to watch you going about your business and trying to be a decent human being, and take anything from that example. So why bother?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

We helped kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan back in the 80's. We sided w/ the Muslims in Kosovo in the 90's. And what'd we get for our deeds ?

USS Cole.
Khobar Towers
E.Africa Embassy bombings
9/11

Spare me the " do gooder " b.s. Some savages only know / respond to 1 thing. Gettin' killed.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:47 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
We helped kick the Soviets out of Afghanistan back in the 80's. We sided w/ the Muslims in Kosovo in the 90's. And what'd we get for our deeds ?

USS Cole.
Khobar Towers
E.Africa Embassy bombings
9/11

Spare me the " do gooder " b.s. Some savages only know / respond to 1 thing. Gettin' killed.

Well, YOU certainly respond to that whole "gettin' killed" thing. Guess that makes you one of those "savages"...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Well, I am a non believer.

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