Want the truth about the rich among us? It’s not just Hayward, tho’ he’s a prime example: Hayward gets a “severance package” totaling around 18 million..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The rich get rich...

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, July 29, 2010 09:01
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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Want the truth about the rich among us? It’s not just Hayward, tho’ he’s a prime example:

Hayward gets a “severance package” totaling around 18 million dollars.

Larry Ellison, founder and chief executive of Redwood Shores-based software maker Oracle Corp., was the highest-paid CEO of a public company in the past decade, making $1.84 billion in that span, according to a ranking from The Wall Street Journal. Forbes Magazine estimates his net worth at $28 billion, making him the third richest American and sixth richest human being in the world.

Barry Diller, the chairman of IAC/InterActive Corp. and the man responsible for Expedia.com and The Daily Beast, was number two on the list, receiving roughly $1.14 billion.

Ray Irani of Occidental Petroleum Corp. came in third at $857 million.

Steve Jobs.( the Cupertinio-based Apple honcho)'s pay came in at $749 million, but he differed from most other chief executives in that restricted stock - $646 million of it - represented much of its source.

It goes on and on. But four of the 10 highest-paid CEOs ran companies that lost money over the decade, so how does that compare to “pay for performance”? Shareholders lost; CEO’s gained. The American Way.

How about CEOs who are OUT but got pretty good “golden parachutes” too, even tho’ the companies they headed didn’t:

Stanley O'Neal, Merrill Lynch (Package worth: $161.5 million). He fired 200,000 employees; Merrill reported $2.24 billion in losses

Robert Nardelli, Home Depot (Package worth: $210 million). Home Depot is still going strong, tho’ their stock prices dipped, he made $38.1 million as part of his last yearly contract with Home Depot.

Jimmy Cayne, Bear Stearns (Package worth: $61 million). We all remember what happened to Bear Stearns, yes?

Martin Sullivan, AIG (Package worth: $47 million). And AIG, we remember what happened to THEM, too...

Robert Rizzo, public official (Package worth: $30 million). This one’s a special kick to us in CA. Officials are still trying to figure out how Robert Rizzo, who up until this month served as the city manager of Bell, Calif., stayed under the public radar for so long. Rizzo, whose CEO-like work for the debt-strapped city mysteriously earned him $787,637 per year, could end up getting upwards of $30 million in pension payouts. It now appears that outrageous salaries were the norm in Bell: Its police chief, for instance, made $457,000 per year.
Quote:

The city cut more than $800,000 from public safety and community services the same year that it gave City Manager Robert Rizzo an $82,000 raise. At the same time that top Bell officials were receiving some of the fattest municipal salaries in the nation, the city cut spending on police, social services, and parks and recreation, according to interviews and records reviewed by The Times. While City Manager Robert Rizzo was receiving more than $700,000 a year, Rosario Torres was laid off from her $9-an-hour job preparing children for kindergarten. Bell is a city near Los Angeles which covers 2.5 square miles, and has a population of approximately 36,000.

As an old sitcom’s intro once sang: “Good work if you can get it, if you can get it, let me know”.

Don’t cut taxes for the rich, it inentivises economic growth and everyone benefits, they say. Oh yeah? What did these guys “incentivize” and how did we benefit, exactly?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:16 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


You got this from last nights Maddows show... except they had some douchebag covering for her.

Heh, Nix. You accuse me of parroting verse from Fox news? You do it from MSN, and ESPECIALLY MADDOW.

See, unlike you, I watch ALL "news".

Try again Nix.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:23 AM

BYTEMITE


That really isn't on topic.

Try again, Wulf.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No, its right on topic.

I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.

No.

She is quoting line and verse from the Maddow show last night. But seemingly to claim it as her own.


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:27 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#38439269

Its under the title "The Outrageous Truth of Ceo Pay"

She quoting line and verse from this EXACT show.


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:49 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Shes plagerizing the whole thing!

So Nix, you got any ideas of your own on this matter?


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oops, wrong again, Wulf. I got it from http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/27/local/la-me-bell-cuts-20100727

Yeah, I heard about that one on Maddow; it outraged me so much that I went searching for facts. That's where I found them, but there are dozens of articles about it all over the internet. That one was just concise and I only posted the basic facts.

Yes, I hear about things on Maddow, and other places. Then I look them up, check the websites to be as sure as I can that they're not slanted, and for veracity, before I post.

As it happens, I started out with Hayward because that's what I heard on Maddow and it shocked me. I found a number of websites showing high pay for CEOs and quoted those--they may well have been the ones Maddow quoted, I don't know. I didn't go back to Maddow to quote her and I don't keep stuff like that in my head.

BUT, you might note that quite a few of the OTHER CEOs I put up were NOT on Maddow at all, they came from my own research on the subject. When I found the one on that Rizzo bastard I posted more text, because that one especially pisses me off. The text was directly from the L.A. Times.

I will look up the urls for the sites besides the LA Times--I've pretty much given up posting cites every time I put up something because it's time consuming and I get the feeling few check them out. On things I believe are important, I do.

So no, Wulf, you're totally wrong. I hear something on TV or read it on the internet, then I CHECK IT OUT to be sure what I've heard/read is as accurate as I can tell.

You, on the other hand, parrot what you hear on FauxNews, as far as I can tell. IF you looked things up, it might be different; there have been many "news" stories that have never shown up here because I checked them out and found flaws.

Too bad about that, you should think before you accuse, especially as I've said over and over that I check things out!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 9:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay: the first list of CEOs came from http://cbs5.com/local/Oracle.Larry.Ellison.2.1828060.html, a local news station from "Lakewood Shores".

The second list came from U.S. News and World Report (DAMN they're liberal propagandists!): http://money.usnews.com/money/business-economy/articles/2010/07/27/6-u
npopular-ceos-who-still-collect-millions.html


Check 'em out, be my guest. I condense the text in putting stuff up, there's MUCH more information at both sites. Maybe you'll learn something, who knows?

Whether you choose to believe it or not, what I posted is fact, not "bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda." You can find the same information on many financial websites; I could have chosen any one of those, or any website I felt was unslanted. They're just facts.

Do you get it at ALL? Things you dismiss as "bs propaganda" and don't even bother to read or pay attention to often AREN'T that, they're facts which have been back-checked by various sources. Your choice to dismiss them and call them that shows clearly, again, that you don't pay attention. You're so busy with your partisan jihad you can't be bothered with facts, you just call it bullshit and move on. Do you get it at ALL???? Gawd, I wish you could!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Actually, I'm betting Maddow does the same as I do; gets some of her ideas from news stories, on the internet or elsewhere, then checks them out. I KNOW her people check the facts; she gets a kick out of putting them up when someone calls her a liar and I've checked myself in some instances to verify she's right. That's one reason I trust her "more" than some other news sources.

Given it's all over the internet and in the news, my question would be "did FauxNews cover this at all?" I'll bet they didn't...you see, it doesn't fit THEIR agenda, so like you, they'll ignore it. UNlike you, however, they know it's out there and they know it's fact. It just not "right" for them.

So do I get an apology for accusing me of "plagerism"? The difference is, I would have apologized to YOU. I'd also like to know if FauxNews DID play the story, because I bet they didn't (and I do NOT watch them!).

I'm glad to hear you watch Maddow sometimes, tho'; I hope you also check out other sources, because no one is good enough.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:18 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Nix,

We all know you got that garbage from Maddow... then when I caught you and called you on it, you spent a few minutes looking up the other links.

My opinions are my own, based on my OWN experience.

Don't accuse me, or anyone else here, of being mouthpieces for particular newssources/people again.

It would be hypocrisy of the worst kind.

As a peace offering tho...

Would you like an apple?

heh :)

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:28 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:


I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.



It's not just rich-vs.-poor. Obama and Dems are also playing race card at every opportunity, black-vs.-white & Arizona -vs- illegals.
So the post-racial "uniter" President is nothing but a pathetic race-baiting, class-warfare asshole. Because he's got nothing else, nothing! Won't matter though, Dems are going to get their asses handed to them in less than 100 days. Obama will be effectively nuetralized, and then he can take even more vacations to NYC and Maine, even more golf outings, even more trips to Spain, even more Paul McCartney concerts, even more time on the bball court, etc etc etc.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:41 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, I hear about things on Maddow, and other places. Then I look them up, check the websites to be as sure as I can that they're not slanted, and for veracity, before I post.


Who cares where you got your facts as long as they are true.

Good for you looking things up though...not sure what your point was except rich folks make lots of money.

Not really a surprise. Find me a story about an unemployed fella making millions and that will make me wonder 'what's wrong with the world'.

The whole tax the rich because they can afford it makes no sense. Thats like saying football teams like Ohio State should have a limit to how much they can score depending on the estimated skill of their opponant.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:43 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

No, its right on topic.

I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.

No.

She is quoting line and verse from the Maddow show last night. But seemingly to claim it as her own.



Okay, and you'll notice that I don't particularly care if she did, just like I don't particularly care if someone posts something from Glen Beck or posts movies. That's up to them.

Seems to me this thread was about business ethics and golden parachutes. It's like congress constantly voting to give themselves a pay increase, only instead, it's shareholders, the board of directors and CEOs.

Explain to me how there's a difference, and I'll entertain your argument.


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Omigawd, you're kidding! Doesn't the fact that some of the CEOs I FIRST put up never appeared on Maddow mean NOTHING to you? I'm really pissed; I spend more time checking things out than I do actually posting here, and you say I'm plagerizing! I'm particularly proud of always checking my facts, but you so badly need to dismis them that you'll insult me like that!

Then again, maybe I understand. In WulfWorld people lie, cheat, steal; no wonder you don't trust someone who actually plays by the rules. You have my sympathy.

But again, as EvilDinosaur said in the other thread and Hero said here: Whether I got 'em from Maddow or not, does that make the facts not real? The fact that I put up the URLs to the articles--oh, wait, I gotcha!

The TEXT...the text of everything I put up comes from the URLs I posted. How could I 'hunt around' for URLs to prove I hadn't plagerized Maddow AFTER THE FACT of posting what I did??? Tell me that one, if you dare. You didn't think that insult through, didja?

Aside from all that, how could I have gotten the entire text of what Maddow said to post it verbatum? Hers is a TV show...as in VIDEO, remember?

If you truly are so pathetic and desperate that you have to believe I copied something, and the fact that the same inforation is available all over the internet, then I'm not going to bother any more. That is TRULY the most pathetic thing I've ever seen you do and it really pisses me off. I don't need to be pissed off, I'm already battling a depression because of something else, so I'm outta here.

Anything to avoid admitting you were wrong and/or (gawd forbid!) apologizing, eh, Wulf? There goes what little respect I had for you, right down the drain! I don't need this shit; I'm moving on to something more sensible. It's not important whether you accept the facts or not, in fact it shouldn't surprise me one whit. Dunno why I thought you WOULD!

And thank you Hero. No, it's no surprise the rich are getting richer, but how MUCH richer than the rest of us was a shock to me. Also a shock was to find out how many CEO's were getting million-dollar pay AFTER they were fired, AFTER running their companies into the ground. I probably heard it before, but seeing these graphs really got to me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:53 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


So... Nix.... no apples?


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ooops, missed yours, Byte, I was so pissed off and typing like a whirlwind. It's not a question; it's something I thought would be worthwhile sharing, that's all. Given I didn't know it myself, I thought I'd share it with others. Nothing more.

Tho' maybe, yes, something about taxing the rich. Given trickle-down doesn't work, given they're SO much richer than others, given tax cuts DO add to the deficit, why should we keep them from expiring? There's a question.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


You know what...I don't do this often, but you've really riled me up, impuning my honesty. So

FUCK YOU!!!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:00 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No, its right on topic.

I actually dont care about this thread. Its bs propoganda from the liberaty anyways, in order to pit the "poor" vs the "rich" to further their agenda.

No.

She is quoting line and verse from the Maddow show last night. But seemingly to claim it as her own.




So, it's all made up propaganda to further the class gap, and a douchebag fuckup ISN'T getting paid millions?

Who gives a shit who reported the FACTS you simpleton? Are you really so twisted up with hate that you'll agree with something wrong just because someone you seethe with hatred for disagrees with it too? I pity you.

But, on the other hand, thank you for consistently being soooooo goddamned stupid. You really are what I visit this site for these days.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:01 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Nix,

We all know you got that garbage from Maddow... then when I caught you and called you on it, you spent a few minutes looking up the other links.

My opinions are my own, based on my OWN experience.



So in that clip above that you stole and posted (without permission from either Affleck or Damon, I'd wager), were you Matt Damon? Is that what you're claiming?

Quote:


Don't accuse me, or anyone else here, of being mouthpieces for particular newssources/people again.

It would be hypocrisy of the worst kind.



You mean like YOU claiming Niki's a mouthpiece of the Maddow Show?

Post up the Maddow transcript. Let's see if it's the exact same wording. After all, you DID accuse her of plagiarism. Show your evidence, if you have any.

Or are we not allowed to talk about issues that are mentioned on the news without being considered "plagiarists" for mentioning them?

Oh, hell - I'll do your homework for you, since I have the link handy.

Here's the transcript from Chris Hayes's filling in on the Maddow Show and covering this story:

Quote:

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
HAYES: Well, it‘s official. Tony “I want my life back” Hayward is out as BP‘s CEO.
Here is a word on Tony Hayward‘s legacy from Bob Dudley, the guy who is set to replace him as of October 1st.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB DUDLEY, REPLACING HAYWARD AS BP CEO: I have great admiration for Tony. His commitment to the corporate response in the United States and around the Gulf was evident from the very beginning. When you talk to Tony, he says, look, I was the captain of the ship when a terrible accident happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Well, that‘s one way to look at it.
Another way is that Tony Hayward was the captain of a ship that routinely and systematically ignored safety concerns—and as a result exploded, sank to the bottom of the ocean, and pumped millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, threatening a quarter of America‘s wetlands, not to mention the Gulf region‘s economic stability—but, you know, tomato/tomato.
What‘s not in dispute is the result of Tony Hayward‘s metaphorical ship-captaining. As a reward for his, I guess, leadership, let‘s say, during this really stellar moment in BP‘s corporate history, Tony Hayward is getting a severance package plus pension payments that amount to an estimated $18 million. That‘s what he gets for presiding over a massive oil disaster and record losses.
But “The Wall Street Journal” has compiled a list of the best paid CEOs of the decade and Tony Hayward‘s $18 million payout is an absolute pittance compared to the kind of cash top CEOs are raking in.
Larry Ellison, the founder and CEO of Oracle, tops the list with more than $1.8 billion, billion with the B.
Barry Diller of IAC and Expedia.com made $1.4 billion.
Ray Irani of Occidental Petroleum made $857 million.
And Steve Jobs of Apple made $749 million.
Richard Fairbanks, CEO of Capital One, made off with $569 million.
OK. So, CEOs, in other words, make an astonishing amount of money and, right, we know that. If we‘ve learned anything from our friend Tony Hayward, it‘s not that just because they‘re all great at their jobs and they‘re totally worth it to the company they work for.
CEO pay is not, in fact, a meritocracy. It is a result of the very cozy relationship between CEOs and the people who decide how much CEOs should get paid.
Here‘s how it works in a nutshell: The board of directors has to determine how much to pay their CEO, but it just so happens that most of the people on the board of directors are really good buddies with the CEO in question. So, naturally, they‘ll want to cut their pal a good deal, and there are lots and lots of ways to do that.
For example, “The New York Times” is reporting this week on a study showing that boards of directors, quote, “routinely use compensation peer groups to artificially inflate pay for their chief executives.” So they pick out other overpaid CEOs and choose them as examples of why they need to overpay their CEO. Neat system, huh?
This whole system would be more frustrating than infuriating if it weren‘t for the fact that CEO pay is both a cause and partly a symptom of the staggering increase of inequality in this country.
I want you to take a look at this: this is how much better the poorest people in America are doing now compared to 1979. This is adjusted for inflation. It‘s income.
OK. Look at that. If you are in the bottom fifth of the income bracket, you‘re making only 16 percent more today than you would have in 1979. If you‘re in the middle of the income bracket, you‘re making 25 percent more now.
But the top fifth of earners in this country—they‘re making 95 percent more now than they would have in 1979. And that‘s not the really shocking part of this graph.
Check this out—this is how much better the top 1 percent of Americans are doing now. The income of the very richest among us has shot up by 281 percent since 1979.
The inequality represented in that graph doesn‘t just mean the rich are doing well and the poor are doing badly. It means there‘s a social pyramid in this country, and as you climb it, you enter—you encounter a smaller and smaller group of people doing better and better while everyone at the bottom stays where they are. And it‘s precisely this kind of systematic inequality that incentivized the corporate fraud of the last decade, from Enron to Countrywide. It helped drag the economy into near collapse and it‘s creating an environment in which a select group of people are able to completely immunize themselves against the fate of the rest of the society.
And what that means in practical terms is that evidence of the economic collapse and the too slow recovery is in full display in cities that I‘ve been visiting in Detroit and New Orleans and Des Moines, but it‘s not at all evident on Wall Street. Something needs to be done to change that.
We can all celebrate the passage of financial reform or what‘s passing for financial reform, for giving shareholders more say on how much CEOs are paid—but the problem is more fundamental and more pervasive than that, because the problem isn‘t just CEO pay. It‘s that our entire social and economic way of life in this country is broken and unfair and inequitable, and we need to figure out a way to repair it.
Want to know what might be a good way to start? Well, remember how George W. Bush massively cut taxes for the richest people in America? That tax cut, the one designed to benefit the very wealthiest people in this country who are already doing so well is due to expire in January. We could let it. That would be a first step in the right direction.
What remains to be seen is whether the Democrats in Congress have the political will to take that step.



Seems the SOURCE of the story is that liberal rag, the Wall Street Journal. Hayes reported on THEIR list, crediting them for it.

And clearly, Niki's wording was quite different than Hayes's. So, no plagiarism.

You fail, Wulfie. You wouldn't know plagiarism if you copied it word for word out of a dictionary.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Or, puot another way:



(apologies to everyone else)


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:02 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Heh,

I do that Nix. But be honest, you got that stuff from maddow, then when I called you on it... you went and got the info from other sources.

To be honest I havnt even looked these things up. Its unimportant to me the social agenda of the demolibprogs, setting up and US vs THEM agenda that they do so well and have for so long.

Rich vs poor

Black vs White

Hispanic vs White

Men vs Women.

Its all the same bs, and just serves to... sadly.. divide and conquor. Especially the weak willed and minded.

But Ive gotten a kick out of catching your BS Nix. You copied Maddow, its opinion, chapter and verse... passed it as your own... then get mad when I call you on it?

Come on Nix, we all get tired of arguing, but resorting to taking someone elses work so you dont have to figure things out for yourself?

You are better than that.

ETA: its cute the little crew of like minded folks you have gathered.. Kwick, Story. They are so kwick to rush to your side of the Story (heh, see what I did there?).

Maybe you DID do some research on your own? Good job. But the truth remains that you got your original material from the Maddow circus (complete with the bearded lady, the feminine man, and ALL the clowns).

Just admit you first heard about this from maddow, then (maybe) did your own research on it and Ill quit.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Mike. Now before I leave this stupid threadjack, how did you get the transcript? Please tell me, I didn't know we could do other than watch the video, and sometimes it would help me look up names, etc., that I hear on the show. Thanx again. Whether he believes me or not, screw him. I know what he's doing; he doesn't even believe what he's accusing me of, it's part of his game.

The mere fact that he dismisses the facts without even READING them and just calls them bullshit says it all; he's either too far into his feed bag with his blinders on, or he's laughing at actually getting to me. Either way:

for being a


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:07 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Tho' maybe, yes, something about taxing the rich. Given trickle-down doesn't work, given they're SO much richer than others, given tax cuts DO add to the deficit, why should we keep them from expiring? There's a question.


I think this is less about tax-cuts, and more about loopholes. Tax cuts are good for the average citizen. I have doubts that tax cuts for the rich helps the average citizen, but neither do I necessarily think the rich should therefore be excluded from tax cuts. That just seems like the whole demos problem Plato talked about, and while Plato's philosopher king idea he proposed as an alternative is idiotic and self-serving, he's got a point there about the demos.

Even better for the average citizen and the economy would be budget cuts. Can't actually do much about self-destructive corporate greed and unethical business practices under the current system, the current system is set up to help them and make the little guys unable to compete. But my theory is, their behaviour is destructive, and if they crash the economy, well... They won't be a problem anymore, anyway.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:08 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

So in that clip above that you stole and posted (without permission from either Affleck or Damon, I'd wager), were you Matt Damon? Is that what you're claiming?



Oh, come on, how can you not understand that those movie clips are his thoughts. Because when Wulfie tries to form thoughs o' his own, his brain gets all hurt, and then he wants to shoot people.

Youtube saves lives, by giving the borderline sociopaths an outlet.

Quote:

Post up the Maddow transcript. Let's see if it's the exact same wording. After all, you DID accuse her of plagiarism. Show your evidence, if you have any.



We all know Wulfie has not the courage or integrity to do so.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:12 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

ETA: its cute the little crew of like minded folks you have gathered.. Kwick, Story.



If it makes you feel better, it has nothing to do with jumping to Kwick's aid (he destroys you just fine all by his lonesome) - it's all about making fun of your idiocy. I'd do it with or without Kwick and the others. It's all you, babe.

Quote:

They are so kwick to rush to your side of the Story (heh, see what I did there?).



You used some words twice, uh.... YAY for Wulfie. *golf clap* Maybe someone will put a sticker on your shirt when mommy comes to pick you up.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Because when Wulfie tries to form thoughs o' his own, his brain gets all hurt, and then he wants to shoot people.

Youtube saves lives, by giving the borderline sociopaths an outlet.

Oh, THANK YOU Story, for my first guffaw of the day. I needed it just now, and it did the trick. Equilibrium restored. Much gratitude.

As to his "cute" play on words: What is the sound of one hand clapping?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:43 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its all the same bs, and just serves to... sadly.. divide and conquor. Especially the weak willed and minded.

My gawd. And you don't even see the irony. Wulf, you are so weak-minded that you'll happily spend the rest of your days flossing with some wealthy CEO's asshairs. That's just fine, as long as you can go on hating Maddow (and Niki). Not because of any actual information. You flat out admit you have none.

Absolutely pathetic. You say divide and conquer is a sad thing, but you don't see that the one creating division here is YOU. You're incapable of discussing Niki's post based on facts, because you have none. All you have is hate.

You're a good little slave, Wulfie. The big evil THEY has got your number down. As long as you have a gun to stroke and a scapegoat to blame for your own failures, you'll do and say anything your masters tell you, huh? Wanna prove me wrong? Express an opinion based on something besides hate. Do some fucking research, and try to actually have a reason to dismiss the message other than a movie clip. Or your old standby: "But waaaah! I don't like Maddow/Niki!"

Sorry Niki. Hard to reply on topic when there's such ass-holery going on. I'll come back to it.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:36 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No, rather thank you Mal4. It's good to know the THINKING people in this place can see reality and call Wulf for what he is: a coward. He jumped to an assumption with glee; when proven wrong he's incapable of doing anything but sticking to his point and calling me a liar.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:39 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, wow, this is great. I just found an update on RWAs and the Tea Party. He won't read it, which is fine, because he wouldn't see himself if he did, but this is a great treatise on Wulfwind and has him pegged to a "T". You'd think he's met our little Wulf:
Quote:

As a group, social conservatives share the psychological trait of being authoritarian followers.1 And you can hardly miss the authoritarian follower tendencies in the behavior of the Tea Partiers. Here are a dozen that seem pretty obvious.

1. Authoritarian submission. Authoritarian followers submit to the people they consider authorities much more than non-authoritarians do. In this context, Tea Partiers seem to believe without question whatever their chosen authorities say. Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, various religious groups, the House and Senate GOP leaders, Sen. Grassley from Iowa, Rep. Bachmann from Minnesota, and of course Sarah Palin can say whatever they want about the Democrats, and the Tea Partiers will accept it and repeat it. The followers don‟t find out for themselves what the Democratic leader truly said, what is really in a bill, what a treaty actually specifies, or whether taxes have really gone up. They are happy to let Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin do their thinking for them. It has gotten so bad that their leaders casually say preposterous things that are easily refuted, because they know their audience will never believe the truth, or even hear about it.

2. Fear. Fear constantly pulses through authoritarian followers, and Tea Partiers are mightily frightened. They believe President Obama is a dictator. They also think the country will be destroyed by its mounting debt. They readily believed the health care proposals provided for “death panels” that will euthanize Down‟s syndrome babies, “put Grandma in the grave,” and place microchips in each American so the government can track us. When Rep. Paul Brown (R-GA) said that Obama‟s plan to expand such things as the Peace Corps and AmeriCorps was really intended to create a Gestapo-like, brown-shirt military force in the United States, his followers accepted this. Conservative leaders especially vilify Barack Obama, recently calling him in the space of two days (April 7 and 8) the “most radical president ever” (Gingrich) who is “inflicting untold damage on this great country” (Limbaugh) and is inviting a nuclear attack on the United States by indicating we won‟t hit back (Palin). The people who orchestrate the Tea Party movement know well what button to push first and hardest among social conservatives, and they work it overtime. And they know spreading fear “works” with others as well. Sometimes it seems they are all trying to out-boogie-man each other.

3. Self-righteousness. Self-righteousness runs very strongly in authoritarian followers, and combines with fear to unleash aggression in them. The Tea Partiers commonly describe themselves
as “the good Americans,” “the true Americans,” “the people,” and “the American Patriots.” They could hardly wrap themselves in the flag more thoroughly or more often than they do. Theirs is the holy cause. They believe they are the only ones who can save the country.

4. Hostility. Authoritarian aggression is one of the defining characteristics of authoritarian followers. Do Tea Partiers seem particularly aggressive? The behind-the-scenes organizers of the protests often provided the “words” for the protest through talking-points they distributed. But the protestors put the feeling into the song, and the feeling was often hostility. They angrily called people who disagreed with them at the town halls “Liars,” “Communists,” and “Traitors.” They booed and booed until opposing speakers simply gave up. They lashed out at elected representatives who tried to engage in dialogue. If you look at some of the videos of last August‟s protests, you can see veins bulging in the necks of some of the Tea Partiers as they vented their fury.

5. A lack of critical thinking. Authoritarian followers have more trouble thinking logically than most people do. In particular, they tend to agree with sayings and slogans, even contradictory ones, because they have heard them a lot. Thus Tea Partiers reflexively, patriotically thump that the United States is the best country on earth, but as well that it is now an Obama dictatorship. They also have extra trouble applying logic to false reasoning when they like the conclusion. A ready example can be found in Tea Partiers‟ assertion that Obama is a socialist. They have heard this over and over again from Rush Limbaugh, etcetera, and “so it must be true.” But Obama has never advocated state ownership of an industry. He certainly did not advocate state ownership of health insurance, and eventually even backed away from the “public option” (that most Americans wanted) which would have let the government as well as private companies offer health insurance.

6.Our “biggest problem.” Authoritarian followers will readily believe that lots of things are our “biggest problem.” It can be drugs, the decline of religion, the breakdown of the family, you name it. Thus it was not hard to get Tea Partiers worked up about, of all things, a plan to improve health care to the levels found in other industrialized countries. Yet Tea Partiers believe the passage of the health care bill marks the end of liberty. But they could just as easily have been led to believe that climate change legislation, nuclear disarmament, gay marriage, or taking “In God we trust” off the money would sound the death knell for America. In earlier eras it could have been sex education, Sunday shopping, the 40-hour week, or a Catholic president that would lead to our doom.

7. Compartmentalized thinking. Authoritarian followers can have so many contradictory beliefs and “biggest problems” because their thinking is highly compartmentalized. Ideas exist independently of the other ideas in their head. Their thinking is so unintegrated because they have spent their lives copying what their authorities say, without examining whether the ideas fit together sensibly. And Tea Partiers say over and over that the Democrats are installing a dictatorship, but they demonstrate every time they demonstrate that Americans still have all the freedom of speech they ever had. And one notes the health care reforms bear a striking resemblance to Social Security and Medicare—which many of the protestors happily enjoy and would never give up. Tea Partiers argue that competition makes private enterprise do things more efficiently than the wasteful government can; but they don‟t want the insurance industry to have to compete against a public option in health care that might offer coverage at lower prices. And they complain bitterly that the government is ruining the economy by interfering in the free market system. But the recession was brought on precisely because the banks had been de-regulated, showing the only “invisible hand” at work then was the one sliding other people‟s money into its own pocket. Even Alan Greenspan eventually realized this ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html ).

8. Double Standards. Highly compartmentalized thinking makes it easy for authoritarian followers to employ double standards in their judgments. One finds many examples of this among the Tea Partiers. The protest started off being about “pork” in the stimulus bill. But there have long been clots of extravagant local spending in the federal budget. Who of the protestors took to the streets when Senator Ted Stevens, a champion pork barrel-er, brought tons and tons of pork home to Alaska year after year, such as Sarah Palin‟s “bridge to nowhere”? Tea Partiers also protested about the federal deficit growing by unprecedented leaps and bounds under Obama. But it grew by unprecedented leaps and bounds during George W. Bush‟s presidency, and demonstrations against that were few and far between. President Bush signed the $300 billion Housing and Economic Recovery Act on July 30, 2008 which gave relief to people who were losing their houses and shored up the government-sponsored Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac agencies. But this set off no epic rants in Chicago or declarations that Bush was a socialist.

Tea Partiers have asserted that the Obama administration has too much power and is taking away our Constitutional rights. But they did not cry out when President Bush set up illegal domestic spying operations. And when Tea Partiers claimed today‟s government is riding roughshod over basic human rights, how loudly did they protest the previous government‟s use of torture? And can we not doubt people‟s commitment to democratic freedoms when they shout down speakers at town halls, allowing only their own opinions to be heard?

Tea Partiers howled, on cue, when the Senate used the reconciliation process to pass health care reform. How loudly did they howl when the Republicans used reconciliation to pass George W. Bush‟s tax cuts? They thought the Democrats bullied the Senate parliamentarian into giving them the rulings they wanted. Did they recall that this parliamentarian had been hired by a Republican controlled Senate, and that those Republicans had fired the previous parliamentarian because he had ruled against them? The Tea Partiers vilified Nancy Pelosi for the way she “steamrolled” the legislation through the House. Did they ever hear of Tom DeLay, “the meanest man in Congress”? Tea Partiers claimed abuse of process when Obama made “recess appointments” that he could not get through Congress. Do they know how many times George W. Bush did exactly the same thing?

It’s pretty clear that many, many Tea Partiers aren’t really against the things they say they’re against. For them, it‟s OK when Republicans do these things. But that is pure hypocrisy, which one finds in abundance among authoritarian followers. And in their leaders, such as the various governors who condemned the stimulus package, said they would refuse such funds, but then accepted them and had their picture taken at project announcements that followed.

9. Feeling empowered when in groups. Authoritarian followers seem to want to disappear as individuals. They‟re not comfortable taking stands on their own, or acting alone. Instead they seem fulfilled simply by being part of a large, powerful movement on the march. Thus the insult-hurling Tea Partiers probably would have been quiet, even deferential, had they met with their member of the House one-on-one last August. But experiments have shown that authoritarian followers are highly conforming. When they are in a group of like-minded persons they are much more likely to do things, especially aggressive things, that they would not do alone. They make a good mob, winding each other up by hearing each other yell. Did you notice how they got louder and louder as the town halls wore on? Being in a crowd of fellow-believers also helps them maintain their opinions through the “GOP echo chamber.” “You say to me, „Obama‟s a tyrant!‟ and then I‟ll tell you „Obama‟s a tyrant!‟ Then we‟ll both be more certain he is. And if we‟re with lots of other people who agree, we‟ll all shout it. And the more we shout it, the more I‟ll believe it.”

10. Dogmatism. We also know that authoritarian followers lead the league in being dogmatic. When their leaders set their opinions for them, those opinions are set in stone. Experiments show that nothing (aside from their authorities) can convince them they are wrong. If overwhelmed by logic and evidence, they simply “castle” into dogmatism. This is probably because they don‟t really know why they believe what they believe. They didn‟t figure it out for themselves; they Xeroxed what their authorities said.

Does this apply to Tea Partiers? During the health care debate their authorities said an enormous number of untrue things, and the proponents of reform quickly countered them point by point. For example, Joe Wilson was proved the liar when he famously shouted that Obama was lying about no coverage for illegal immigrants. And opponents endlessly told their followers that federal dollars would now be used to fund abortions, when they would not. Obama called out the Republican House caucus face-to-face in a meeting last January about the lies they had spread, but Tea Partiers probably never heard about it. So the truth was out there in lots of places. But it rolled right past the protestors, who had been inoculated against catching it.

Another example of Tea Partiers‟ intransigence in the face of fact was illustrated by a CBS News/New York Times poll reported on February 12, 2010. Democrats have lowered income taxes for almost all Americans, but the poll found that virtually none of the Tea Partiers realized their taxes had gone down. Instead nearly half of them thought their taxes had gone up, a mistake they made more than twice as often as the rest of the sample. They simply believed the rhetoric of their movement more than the information on their own pay slips.

11. Ethnocentrism. Authoritarian followers are notably ethnocentric, constantly judging others and events through “Us versus Them” lenses. They largely choose their friends according to their beliefs. They stick to news outlets that tell them what they want to hear. They live in a polarized world, divided into their in-group, and out-groups consisting of everybody else. They stress in-group loyalty, and try to keep their distance from the out-groups.

Tea Partiers certainly display a streak of ethnocentrism. They wrap themselves in the flag so tightly, everybody else is outside it. They have very definite out-groups. And of course one of the reasons that the Tea Partiers were uninfluenced by what was actually in the health care reform proposals is that they relied so much on their untrustworthy trusted sources.

This fierce in-group orientation, along with the followers‟ need for external confirmation of their beliefs, explains why Fox News has such a big audience compared with other outlets, why Sarah Palin‟s, Glenn Beck‟s, and Ann Coulter‟s books leap to the top of the best sellers lists, and why “hate radio” is so popular. Authoritarian followers have to get their ideas “validated” by others more than most people do. So they constantly seek out sources of information that will tell them they‟re right. It amounts to in-group in-breeding of the intellect. Research shows that less authoritarian people are more likely to consider different sides of an issue, and figure things out more for themselves. 5

12. Prejudice. Studies have found that authoritarian followers are among the most prejudiced people in society. It is the nastiest aspect of their ethnocentrism, and one they insistently deny—to others and to themselves. And they really do not realize how prejudiced they are, compared with others, because they associate so much with other prejudiced people. So their prejudices seem normal and perfectly justified to them.

Racial prejudice appeared at many of the Tea Party demonstrations, in the form of signs, banners, and tee-shirts—just as it did during the 2008 campaign after Sarah Palin energized the social conservatives. Tea Party spokespersons attributed these racist attacks to outsiders, “a few bad apples,” or fringe members of the group. However Carl Paladino, the Republican candidate for governor of New York who was enthusiastically supported by the Tea Party as a “100% conservative,” was discovered on April 12, 2010 to have emailed racist photos (and also a picture of a woman having sex with a horse) to a long list of friends. One doctored photo depicted the president and Michelle Obama as a stereotyped black pimp and prostitute. Another described an African tribal dance as the Obama inauguration rehearsal. A third picture showed an airplane landing behind a group of black men, with the caption, “Holy Shit, run niggers, run!"

Paladino quickly disassociated himself from the emails he sent, saying “That activity is not Carl Paladino.” He didn‟t however say who it was instead, but still insisted he is not a racist. You can be pretty sure that the rank-and-file of the Tea Party doesn‟t think he is either. But the point here is, he sent these pictures to so many associates, some influential people in the movement had to know what he thought. And it was apparently all right with them too, for he got a rousing Tea Party endorsement.

The vitriol directed at Barack Obama seems unprecedented to many observers. It may be that most Americans now see him as the President of the United States who happens to be African-American. But to many Tea Partiers he is a black man/N-word first, who has no right to be president. Instead, he is a Muslim, a foreigner, a gangster, a fascist, a communist, even the anti-Christ. And they will probably never see him as anything else.
*****
You will find the research alluded to in the twelve points above in The Authoritarians. 6 You will also see that the studies discovered less authoritarian people were not nearly as submissive, fearful, self-righteous, etcetera as the authoritarian followers. It‟s not a case of, “Well, you do it too, just as much.” Liberals do show some of these same behaviors—but not nearly as often. So if you have noticed, for example, how hostile today‟s conservative and Republican leaders have been with their inflammatory speeches, cross-haired congressional targets, and threats to turn a shotgun on the census taker, compared to liberals and Democrats, you have noticed something repeatedly borne out by scientific study.

Still and all, I was just amazed by the Tea Party protest movement. It seemed as if the demonstrators had read the research findings on authoritarianism and then said, “Let‟s go out and prove that all those things are true.” Whatever else the Tea Party movement has accomplished, it has certainly made the research on authoritarianism look good.



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Can we just stop generalizing about people around here? Wulf may fit some profile you've heard of, Niki, and you might fit some "liberal" or "hippy" profile, but I don't see what good it does to constantly yell it at each other.

It is not the discussion at hand, this is only a distraction.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:05 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I take your point, Byte. It just fit so amazingly well, and I'm still pissed, so I wanted to share it. I'm getting off; tomorrow I'll have my equilibrium back.

If you know of any place I can find an equally relevant liberal profile, I'd honestly LOVE to read it. It might increase my self-awareness...someone once gave me a book on astrological signs and I was blown away that Libra had me pegged PERFECTLY! That was years ago and I don't fit the profile anymore, but reading that was a ga. It would have to be something at least relatively scientific, but I really would love to read such a thing.

You don't even have to post it, gimme a link and I'll read it...or if you do post it or part of it, maybe we can have a good discussion about THAT side of it. I know you don't like my using RWA, but I'm sorry; I call it like I see it. I don't call all conservatives RWAs or all Republicans or Tea Partiers, but when it fits, yes, I'll use it. You don't have to read anything I post, but I will read what you do.

Aside from which, if you can EVER get RivKaneZit, Crappy or Wulf to stop generalizing about the left/progs/dems/etc., maybe your request would mean more to me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:22 PM

CHRISISALL


My Son's friend asked me about rich & poor today.
I asked her why cats bring home dead mice and not dead German Shepherds.

We take what we can.

Or what we're willing to become to get it.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 3:09 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

If you know of any place I can find an equally relevant liberal profile, I'd honestly LOVE to read it. It might increase my self-awareness...someone once gave me a book on astrological signs and I was blown away that Libra had me pegged PERFECTLY! That was years ago and I don't fit the profile anymore, but reading that was a ga. It would have to be something at least relatively scientific, but I really would love to read such a thing.

You don't even have to post it, gimme a link and I'll read it...or if you do post it or part of it, maybe we can have a good discussion about THAT side of it. I know you don't like my using RWA, but I'm sorry; I call it like I see it. I don't call all conservatives RWAs or all Republicans or Tea Partiers, but when it fits, yes, I'll use it. You don't have to read anything I post, but I will read what you do.



You think I read books about classifications of people and ideology? No, I don't. It's not something I have any interest in.

Why does a book written with an obvious slant, with compiled references from studies with an obvious slant grant any legitimacy at ALL to this idea of RWA? How is it any different from descriptions of "liberals" from an "RWA" poster here on this board with an equally obvious slant? Both think they're right, both have kernels of truth.

There's a saying I've heard. Someone calls you a cow once, shrug it off. Get called a cow twice, begin to wonder. Third time, buy yourself a trough and a bale of hay. If you want to know why people think the way they do and talk the way they do, listen to the criticisms and understand how your own side is perceived, what THEY think YOU stand for. No one gets anywhere by TELLING other people what they think they stand for.

Quote:

Aside from which, if you can EVER get RivKaneZit, Crappy or Wulf to stop generalizing about the left/progs/dems/etc., maybe your request would mean more to me.


Unfortunately, I can't. I know the impossible when I see it. But you might be willing to listen to me, and stop generalizing them just because you want to endeavor for the high ground, and it'd be a small step forward.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ever wonder why I try to very specifically individualize my insults, Byte ?

Cause that's the thing, I might be nasty, but I really hate stuffing folk into mental categories, which everyone here, including me, has been guilty of, via responding to one person from that 'category' about something not they, but someone ELSE in that 'category' said - first and only time I did that I was wholly mortified about it, and sought to NOT do that again.

So if imma be nasty to someone, imma be personal and specific, it's not malice, well, ok, it is - but I am at least having the decency to kick them in the shin as an individual, rather than a collective shot at anyone and everyone like them.

Cause, yanno, that's what bombs are for.


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:41 PM

BYTEMITE


Goddamn Anarchists!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BombThrowingAnarchists

Git offa ma lawn!

*Utah hick*

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:47 PM

BYTEMITE


Speaking of which, in all seriousness. STATE FAIR. One month from now!

I love the fair. I know it cements me totally being a hick, but I do. Cinnamon almonds, candy apples, cows, baby sheep, bunnies, and that crisp near fall air in the evening. And the people! Such interesting people.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA




Although, if you wanna talk about classifications and wearing the shoe that fits, you could ask Wendy, who has dozens of snarky little titles she throws at me, her favorite being "What-ever, Lord Byron!"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byronic_hero
Sometimes I wonder if that kid isn't the anthropomorphic representation of my conscience, cause sometimes she damn sure acts like it.
*muttercussgrumble*

ETA: Oh yes - one benefit of all these rains and storms, there's gonna a fekkin bumper harvest this year, and imma raid the farmers markets like a pirate horde, oh hell yes, Arrr!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 6:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Thank you, Mike. Now before I leave this stupid threadjack, how did you get the transcript? Please tell me, I didn't know we could do other than watch the video, and sometimes it would help me look up names, etc., that I hear on the show. Thanx again.




Keyword search on Google. First I tried "Rachel Maddow transcript", which led me to the transcript area of her page on MSNBC's website, but it was only current up 'til Monday night at that point. So I typed in "rachel maddow ceo pay" - and it brought up a link to the transcript of TUESDAY night's show.

But yes, there IS a place on the Maddow page on MSNBC to get transcripts.


I still don't get how you "plagiarized" Maddow for this info, though. I mean, yes, Maddow (or Chris Hayes, rather) covered this story, but SO DID ABOUT A JILLION OTHER MEDIA OUTLETS. All of them repeated the salient details and facts, but all of them also used their own wording. And near as I can tell, they all credit WSJ with the research and the report.

And I have yet to hear anyone at the WSJ accuse any of them of plagiarism. Maybe Wulfie needs to give them some legal pointers, since he seems so sure of himself on this one!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 6:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Heh,

I do that Nix. But be honest, you got that stuff from maddow, then when I called you on it... you went and got the info from other sources.

To be honest I havnt even looked these things up. Its unimportant to me the social agenda of the demolibprogs, setting up and US vs THEM agenda that they do so well and have for so long.



In other words, you have nothing at all to base your accusations on. You heard Maddow's guest host say something similar, so you ASSUMED that was the only place this story had hit the airwaves.

Quote:


Rich vs poor

Black vs White

Hispanic vs White

Men vs Women.

Its all the same bs, and just serves to... sadly.. divide and conquor. Especially the weak willed and minded.



You must be especially weak-willed and weak-minded then, because you have used every single one of these "divide and conquer" tactics yourself. You can't seem to get through your day without at least three of them.

And you forgot

Liberals vs. Conservatives

Hippies vs. Those Dumbasses At the Tea Parties

Quote:


But Ive gotten a kick out of catching your BS Nix. You copied Maddow, its opinion, chapter and verse... passed it as your own... then get mad when I call you on it?

Come on Nix, we all get tired of arguing, but resorting to taking someone elses work so you dont have to figure things out for yourself?



Who at The High Road and the NRA website did you steal your whole "gun control is about keeping guns out of the hands of black and brown people" spiel from? You know you did; it's not your original idea. I've seen it regurgitated from the right for a couple generations now. Why won't you credit those people from whom you stole it? Why can't you post your own work? Why must you steal others' work and try to claim it as your own?

Quote:


You are better than that.



Clearly, you are not, though.

Quote:


ETA: its cute the little crew of like minded folks you have gathered.. Kwick, Story. They are so kwick to rush to your side of the Story (heh, see what I did there?).



Oh, NOES - did he just go all Lone-WULF on us? (Oh, wow - I just did it, too! Aren't I the clever one?)

Yes, it's really cute how you've gathered your little crew of Hitler Youth around you. Kirk, Kaney, RL, R6213... Oh, wait - they're all the same person! Your little "crew" of like-minded folks consists of a single 14-year-old gay boy. You'll probably have lots of fun together.

Quote:


Maybe you DID do some research on your own? Good job.



You should try it sometime, Wulfie. Research, I mean. Well, that AND getting a job.

Quote:


Just admit you first heard about this from maddow, then (maybe) did your own research on it and Ill quit.



Hey, maybe Maddow heard it first from Niki; ever think of that? Maybe you don't know, but Maddow puts out feelers; I get e-mail alerts asking what stories she should be looking into and reporting on. Maybe Niki gets them as well.

Thing is, as you've already admitted yourself, Wulfie - YOU didn't do YOUR research, ANY research. You didn't look into any other sources, or see where this was first reported, or by whom. You just blindly lurched into a discussion that was clearly beyond your scope and over your head, and you started flailing around, shouting "Plagerism" like some idiot drunken child, without having a single fact straight when you did so.

You really do owe Niki an apology. I doubt she'll get one, because you're not man enough. In the meantime, PLEASE don't quit, because the rest of us are having a hell of a good time laughing at your stupid backwards hick ass as you make an even bigger idiot of yourself than was previously thought possible.

Wulfie, you are the living embodiment of the old adage that Hydrogen is only the SECOND most abundant element in the universe; Stupidity is the first.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:08 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Who at The High Road and the NRA website did you steal your whole "gun control is about keeping guns out of the hands of black and brown people" spiel from?

Oh come on, he has no idea, Mikey.

But for the record that'd be Clayton E. Cramer - who is, mind you, notorious for being damn near universally fulla shit, he claims to be a historian but he's as partisan as any Wiki deletionist intent on removing evidence of NeoCon asshattery, and he's been caught on it repeatedly.

In case anyone, yanno, actually cared.

I'm fond of the JFPO, but that particular piece of tripe has always offended the crap outta me.

*now having to listen to that STUPID song from Pinocchio over the radio cause I went and called her a demented little cricket*
There's times I really SHOULD know well enough to shut the hell up...
*sigh*

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

We all know you got that garbage from Maddow

Oh for God's sake, Wulf. Who cares where the information came from? That's so RWA of you! You should be asking if it's TRUE. And if it is, what does it mean?
Quote:

My opinions are my own, based on my OWN experience.
Then that's your first mistake: Assuming that your personal experience has any greater meaning beyond you than PERSONAL experience.
Quote:

Don't accuse me, or anyone else here, of being mouthpieces for particular newssources/people again.
Heh! YOU'RE the one who keeps posting video clips of others!

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 1:04 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

When your father is a former U.S. President and your mother is the Secretary of State, having your wedding reception in the local pub isn’t an option.

Chelsea Clinton’s big day in a country mansion on Saturday could cost up to £3.2million.

No expense will be spared at what will be the American society event of the year, with the equivalent of £6,400 being spent on each of the 500 guests.

Bill and Hillary Clinton are also not shy of a dollar - since leaving office as president he has made a fortune from the lecture circuit and she is US Secretary of State, which carries an annual salary of £120,000.

Between 2000 and 2007 they earned a reported £70million.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=44520



"Earned"...

I guess being a bastard heir to the $100-trillion Rockefeller fortune isn't enough.


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Thursday, July 29, 2010 9:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

But you might be willing to listen to me, and stop generalizing them just because you want to endeavor for the high ground, and it'd be a small step forward.
I don’t endeavor for the high ground, Byte, you misunderstand. I’ve explained it before: I try to avoid condemning groups by “conservative”, “Republican”, “righty”, etc. I TRY, I don’t succeed all the time. But for me, there is a mentality I see in some people who perfectly reflects the high RWA mentality, and when I see it, I call it that. In cases such as Wulf’s, it’s so obvious it BEGS to be called out.

I don’t “tell” him what he thinks, I read his words. Sometimes he says things outright, other times his posts show it all too clearly; he will say one thing and later say something that indicates the opposite, or make a point then later make the exact opposite point. He refuses to see that he does that, but some of us do, and call it out when we see it. That IS an example of compartmentalized thinking, as are other things he posts.

The fact that you find the book slanted and based on “slanted” experiments is your opinion. My opinion is different. I find it a valid work, particularly because what I see EXHIBITED by the people he calls RWAs mirrors his definition so perfectly it’s hard for me to ignore. If they didn’t fit the pattern, I wouldn’t use the term. As I said elsewhere, Crappy, I think it was?, isn’t a complete reflection of an RWA, tho’ from what he said it appears HE thinks he fits.

As I also said before, you are quite free to dismiss the term or denounce it as generalization. Certainly those of us lumped as “libs”, “progs”, “dems”, etc., and given attributes the person assigns to those groups complain, to absolutely no avail whatsoever. They are free to do the same...I took them to heart long ago and try not to generalize negatively (tho’, as I said, I sometimes fail); RWA is a term that represents a kind of thinking that I call an individual when I see what I believe it to be. I don’t use the term when I don’t see the behavior.

Mike, thanx for the link, sometimes stuff goes by and I can’t remember the details to look it up myself, so that’ll come in handy. I’ll have to see if other shows do the same. As to the attack of plagerizing, that stopped bothering me a long time ago yesterday. He caught me unawares and I got pissed at being accused of what some others here HAVE done (especially as I spend so much time investigating and verifying things, but once I got away from the computer, I realized what was happening and it ceased being important. The repetition of the accusation, as you yourself know if you think about it, are a game.

Oh fer crissake, PN, that had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING...you just can’t resist sticking your ugliness in, can you? Ridiculous person.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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