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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

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Originally posted by kpo:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Isn't this thread just a repost?

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=42472

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It's subtly different.

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Ok. Does the progression of one apply to the other? Did it spawn this, or had you not partaken of it until now?
How do you feel one influences the other, or do they not?

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Originally posted by kpo:
The question is, are there factors that contribute towards a person's mental aptitude, besides genes?

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By definition IQ is a measure of innate, genetic intelligence.

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You are very wrong. That's like saying weighing scales are a measure of a person's height. It's not a measure, but it can provide an indication (there are other factors involved).

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Unfortunately science doesn't have a tape-measure for measuring genetic intelligence yet - this can only come with a complete understanding of human genetics, it seems to me.

Here's a mini article that summarises and lists some of the known factors influencing IQ (there are many): http://www.2h.com/articles/iq-tests/iq-test-results-what-factors-can-i
nfluence-them.html

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Background
Most researchers agree that genetic factors account for about 40-80% of the variation in IQ test results. If this is true, then environmental or other factors must account for 20-60% - which is a large range.

Factors Influencing IQ
Some environmental factors that have a large effect upon later IQ test results include prenatal ones, such as:

Whether or not, prior to the birth, mother drank large amounts of alcohol during her pregnancy (fetal alcohol syndrome).
The mother was exposed to large amounts of lead.
Factors that have an effect during the early years
Other factors that have their influence on IQ at a young age are:

Schooling.
The quality of toys used.
The amount of external stimulus the child was subjected to.
Prolonged malnutrition also has a marked negative effect on IQ test.
In contrast, babies who were breastfed have IQs up to 10 points on average higher than those who weren't.

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Originally posted by QuestionableQuestionality:
"IQ scores have been shown to be associated with such factors as morbidity and mortality,[4] parental social status,[5] and to a substantial degree, parental IQ. While its heritability has been investigated for nearly a century, controversy remains as to how much is heritable, and the mechanisms of inheritance are still a matter of some debate."


Key being "substantial degree,parental IQ". Now, the controversy is clearly political. No-one that practices Political correctness ever wants to tell a whole race of people that they are innately intellectually inferior.

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Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
for those of you that didn't take physics in high school: weight is a force, and scales (technically) measure mass which is a-whole-nother kettle-of-fish

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
138.

So close to Must Enjoy Now Super Achievement, will try again.

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Originally posted by kpo:
What determines a person's politics?

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Incorrect. Weighing scales are, in fact a measure of force. They are designed to measure force, and they do.

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Psychometry measures mental functions, it designs IQ tests to measure IQ, and that is what they do.

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By definition IQ is a measure of innate, genetic intelligence.

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Originally posted by kaneman:


As Rappy said the last stand for people with no argument is to go after grammatical errors.

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JSF knocked kpo out of the park. Instead of posting something of substance you resort to nothing....thus giving JSF an easy win.

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I'll thank you for her...You gays are fantastic spellers.....

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Thats why people who combine eduction with hard working jobs tend to be conservative. People who have too much education and whose jobs don't require much (like college profs and trust fund types) tend to be liberal. People who work hard but have little education tend to be social conservatives and liberal on economics.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Jewel,

A score of 138 on a Mensa directed test is not good enough, according to the one I participated in.

You need a score of 140 or higher.

Stupid picture of a human leg... I knew it was the left one. *sigh.

I'll have to wait another year to take it again.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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I have, numerous times, numerous types, numerous scales, numerous examiners.
But you likely already knew that, and were directing the Q at others.
And the retard who spouted that a numerical value of 138 resulting from an IQ test is insufficient to gain admission to Mensa has again proven themselves hopelessly wrong.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Yes, I've given them.
Thinking that a Psychology degree is a requirement to administer one is a fallacy. Although I do know one who has that level of degree, but she rarely can schedule the administration of the exams.
That level of degree is required to EVALUATE the exam, determine it's validity, but not to administer it. Even then other qualifications are needed for an evaluator.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Fair enough.

Is it also based on the state you are in? Does an IQ score of 140 mean less or more based on NY vs Georgia?

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I never should have taken the test drunk...

But I hate tests.

lol

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Your elitism and hatred of the South is showing....

Might want to tuck that in.

Some of us here have family who fought for the Indepe...er, South.

:)P

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Your elitism and hatred of the South is showing....

Might want to tuck that in.

Some of us here have family who fought for the Indepe...er, South.

:)P

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Yes, and some of us here have family who fought for the Union. And won. So suck on that.

As for my "elitism", weren't you the one who brought up IQ scores some time ago? Nobody else seemed to get what you were driving at, but I did.

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No, you are seeing it thru your own lenses. Blue as they are, and lacking depth.

So suck on that :)P

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Fair enough.

Is it also based on the state you are in? Does an IQ score of 140 mean less or more based on NY vs Georgia?

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Originally posted by Malachite:
So I just finished talking to the Phd level psychologist I work with. We just went through all of the subscales of a WISC-IV (a standardized IQ test for children/adolescents) and discussed some of the components. Her perspective was that some components of an IQ test measure innate levels of intelligence and some don't. Some components are more heavily influenced by a person's education/socioeconomic background than others and some are highly culturally dependent. She also described how IQs, as measured by the WISC-IV are not static, that is they can change if one goes from a place of educational deprivation to a more educationally enriched environment.

To be specific, it appears that the block design, matrix reasoning, coding and symbol search sections of a WISC-IV appear to be the least influenced by educational/cultural background. On the other side, the vocabulary, comprehension, similarities and letter number sequencing subtests require significant academic background (because you need to know word definitions, how to alphabetize, and what other nebulous concepts are like dimensions, democracy and monopolies). And the digit span and picture concepts subsections require more education as you get to the harder ones. Picture concepts and picture completion (which isn't always assessed) were highly culturally dependent (that is, someone from a non developed nation would do poorly on them) and some of the other subscales were somewhat culturally dependent as well (like being able to recognize what an umbrella/whistle is, what it is for and what parts might be missing from it).

There are also other scales which are highly education dependent, but aren't used unless there is a problem during testing on one of the main scales. These include the arithmetic, word reasoning and information sections.

Other things she noted were that there is a "practice effect" when taking IQ tests. That is, you have to wait a year between taking tests, because the more familiar the tests are, the better you will do.

As far as self confidence goes, this can have a positive effect on IQ scores because the more confident you are, the more persistent you will be (you won't give up when something initially looks challening), the more likely you are to make an educated guess instead of just giving up and saying "I don't know" (which on some subtests earns partial points) and the less anxious you will be (which is going to affect your ability to pay attention and retain information).

Lastly, she mentioned how race can play a role if the tester and testee are different races and one has various thoughts/attitudes about the other that could affect how the test is administered or how much effort is put in to taking the test.

Just some thoughts from a sample size of one phd psychologist. Take it for what it is worth. It was quite fascinating to go through the test.

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Originally posted by kpo:

Thanks malachite, that's very informative.

I've been approaching the debate with the point that the upbringing of a child contributes to its eventual IQ (real IQ, not measured) - whether the pregnant mother is well nourished (and listens to plenty of Mozart), whether the baby breast or bottle feeds, whether the infant has good quality toys, and plenty of intellectual stimulation throughout its childhood development - all can make a difference.

Another essay that makes a good case for environment: http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq03.htm

It's not personal. It's just war.

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