...sigh...it's not "global warming", it's "climate change", and a heat wave isn't the only thing that shows it, so do the extraordinary cold last Winter ..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Will Russia's Heat Wave End Its Global-Warming Doubts?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 4, 2010 11:02
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1011
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, August 3, 2010 9:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


...sigh...it's not "global warming", it's "climate change", and a heat wave isn't the only thing that shows it, so do the extraordinary cold last Winter and a dozen other things. Still, if it slows the rate of their polluting, that's a good thing whatever you call it...
Quote:

Russians are not used to heat waves. When the high temperatures that have overwhelmed Russia over the past six weeks first arrived in June, some 1,200 Russians drowned at the country's beaches. "The majority of those who drowned were drunk," the Emergencies Ministry concluded in mid-July, citing the Russian habit of taking vodka to cool off by the sea. But while overconsumption of vodka is a familiar scourge in Russia, extreme heat is not, and as the worst heat wave on record spawns wildfires that are destroying entire villages, Russian officials have made what for them is a startling admission: global warming is very real.


"A woman covers her nose from smog as she walks next to a fire hydrant in the town of Vyksa, some 93 miles (150 km) southwest of the Volga city of Nizhny Novgorod.

At a meeting of international sporting officials in Moscow on July 30, Russian President Dmitri Medvedev announced that in 14 regions of the country, "practically everything is burning. The weather is anomalously hot." Then, as TV cameras zoomed in on the perspiration shining on his forehead, Medvedev announced, "What's happening with the planet's climate right now needs to be a wake-up call to all of us, meaning all heads of state, all heads of social organizations, in order to take a more energetic approach to countering the global changes to the climate."

For Medvedev, such sentiments mark a striking about-face. Only last year, he announced that Russia, the world's third largest polluter after China and the U.S., would be spewing 30% more planet-warming gases into the atmosphere by 2020. "We will not cut our development potential," he said during the summer of 2009 (an unusually mild one), just a few months before attending the Copenhagen climate summit, which in December failed to reach a substantial agreement on how to limit carbon emissions.

But even that pronouncement, grim as it seemed to the organizers of the Copenhagen talks, was mild compared with the broader Russian campaign against the idea that global warming is taking place. Two months before Copenhagen, state-owned Channel One television aired a documentary called The History of a Deception: Global Warming, which argued that the notion of man-made climate change was the result of an international media conspiracy.

"Broadly speaking, the Russian position has always been that climate change is an invention of the West to try to bring Russia to its knees," says Vladimir Chuprov, director of the Greenpeace energy department in Moscow.

But Medvedev's climate-sensitive comments on Friday, Chuprov says, could finally mark the start of a policy shift. "You don't just throw comments like that around when you are the leader of the nation, and if you look at what is happening with this heat wave, it's horrible. It's clearly enough to shake people out of their delusions about global warming."

read more: ttp:// www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2008081,00.html?hpt=T2#ixzz0vZS
F9spB


I guess it's only real if it hits home. But what the hell, it's a start!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 1:50 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bump because it's something I haven't heard about on the news, and very little on what Russia's suffering right now, either. Maybe some sane person will perk up.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 1:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Check back w/ me in about 500 years.


If the temp is continuing to increase then, maybe I'll consider ....


Naw... better make that 50,000 years. The planet really has no concern for humans and OUR time frame.




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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 1:58 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Some weeks ago I read about many Russians drowning while attempting to escape the heat. It does appear from the comments in this article that the top government authorities in Russia are warming to the idea of addressing global climate.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 2:04 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Anthony, I heard about the drownings too. It was in the article...I only post the relevant stuff now, so my quoted material isn't so long.

I think it would be grand if they'd take the pollution issue more seriously, because that's what it IS, and whether climate change helps get them to pay attention or anything else, it could be a good thing if they take it seriously.

I guess I just kinda find it funny that it's only when it's unusually HOT that people think about "global warming", when that's not what it is at all. Humans...go figger...

Raptor, don't worry, it won't take that long. You might even see some in your lifetime, if you're young enough, or your children might, if you have any.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 2:06 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The planet really has no concern for humans....




Neither, clearly, do you.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 2:09 PM

WHOZIT


Another thing we've learned, commies can't swim.

Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 2:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The planet really has no concern for humans....




Neither, clearly, do you.



You're right. I have no regard for phony man made concepts such as global warming.

Or those who buy into such nonsense.





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Tuesday, August 3, 2010 2:32 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I myself have never been convinced that the global climate is experiencing these extremes due to human activity. My personal belief is that human beings may be shaking the tree- causing some sway in the upper branches- but I don't think we can compete with a strong gust of wind. I honestly think the climatologists of the world aren't sure what exactly causes the changes we experience. They seem very adept at studying the past and reporting the present, but I have no faith in them being able to predict the future- much less guide us in influencing it.

I hear the sun is belching on our planet tonight. A while ago, a volcano erupted. In recent memory, earthquakes have shaken the globe. I don't rank human beings very highly in comparison to the forces of nature.

Incidentally, the reason you keep hearing the tired reference to 'Global Warming' is because that's what a scientist called it in 1975. Only in recent years has the term been disowned in favor of 'climate change.' Climate Change is a better term because it is more nebulous and all inclusive. As long as the climate fluctuates, you've got climate change. It's a very safe bet.

I do think the climate is changing, but I don't have a lick of faith in our understanding as to why, nor our arrogance in believing that we are the principle cause of it.

Every time these stories are discussed lately, I remember dialogue from HBO's series Rome.

Quote:


Mark Antony : Caesar has many more legions than the Thirteenth.
Scipio: Yes, on the far side of the Alps.
Mark Antony: Winter does not last forever. Spring comes. Snows melt.
Scipio: That is a threat!
Mark Antony : No, I assure you, that is no threat. Snows always melt.



You can sell me on green technology because I like to breathe and eat and drink without dying. You can sell me on renewable energy because it grants me more freedom and additional money in my pocket. You can sell me on disaster preparation because disaster is something you can count on.

Selling me on the idea that we are the principle force of nature on this planet is a tougher deal. I think we're riding the coattails of fate, rather than leading its charge.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 6:11 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The planet really has no concern for humans....




Neither, clearly, do you.



You're right. I have no regard for phony man made concepts such as global warming.

Or those who buy into such nonsense.




Like scientists and.... people with an education and a capacity to reason.

You're right, you're much better off hanging with teabaggers and hillbillies, cuz they believe what they beleiev and facts be damned!


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 6:22 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The planet really has no concern for humans....




Neither, clearly, do you.



You're right. I have no regard for phony man made concepts such as global warming.

Or those who buy into such nonsense.




Like scientists and.... people with an education and a capacity to reason.

You're right, you're much better off hanging with teabaggers and hillbillies, cuz they believe what they beleiev and facts be damned!


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."




That comes off as a tad elitist....ya think?

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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 6:33 AM

STORYMARK


I was waiting for that.

Sorry, but as much as the right loves to decry the term "elite", some folks are dumb, many of them by choice. If you want to label those who are not, particularly those who choose to educate themselves rather than avoid information in order to maintain a simpler worldview, as elite, then so be it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 7:00 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I was waiting for that.

Sorry, but as much as the right loves to decry the term "elite", some folks are dumb, many of them by choice. If you want to label those who are not, particularly those who choose to educate themselves rather than avoid information in order to maintain a simpler worldview, as elite, then so be it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



You mean educating themselves in civics and the constitution? Understanding the difference in a republic and a democracy. Or do you mean educating themselves to be sheeple progressives running around hugging vegetation? Hey, I like vegetables as much as the next girl, however I don't want to get sued by my squash...know what I'm sayin?

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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 7:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


There are no facts which support anthropogenic global warming.

Sorry.






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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 8:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Seems the American people disagree with you:
Quote:

6/1/10-6/7/10:

You may have heard about the idea that the world's temperature may have been going up slowly over the past 100 years. What is your personal opinion on this - do you think this has probably been happening, or do you think it probably has not been happening?

Probably has been happening 74
Probably has not been happening 24

(Assuming it’s happening) Do you think a rise in the world’s temperature is being (would be) caused mostly by things people do, mostly by natural causes, or about equally by things people do and by natural causes?

Things People Do 30
Natural Causes 25
Both Equally 45

Some people believe that the United States government should limit the amount of air pollution that U.S. businesses can produce. Other people believe that the government should not limit air pollution from U.S. businesses. What about you? Do you think the government should or should not limit air pollution from U.S. businesses?

Government should limit air pollution from U.S. businesses 86
Government should not limit air pollution from U.S. businesses 12

Some people believe that the United States government should limit the amount of greenhouse gasses thought to cause global warming that U.S. businesses can produce. Other people believe that the government should not limit the amount of greenhouse gasses that U.S. businesses put out. What about you? Do you think the government should or should not limit the amount of greenhouse gasses that U.S. businesses put out

Government should limit greenhouse gasses from U.S. businesses 76
Government should not limit greenhouse gasses from U.S. businesses 20

http://woods.stanford.edu/docs/surveys/Global-Warming-Survey-Selected-
Results-June2010.pdf




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 8:12 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Probably has been happening 74
Probably has not been happening 24



74%, folks. Nearly 3/4 of all people accept reality.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 8:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Probably has been happening 74
Probably has not been happening 24



74%, folks. Nearly 3/4 of all people accept reality.



Science is not a popularity poll.

Duping the public into buying this lie , whether it's NBC and it's phony 'green week' promotion, or its schools forcing students to watch AlGore's phony documentary , with out any counter balance, but delivered as the gospel truth, doesn't change the fact that man isn't causing the Earth's climate to change by any measurable amount.




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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 8:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Niki,

I don't care that the American public is being lied to, and then basing their views on that lie. It doesn't matter to me that all they hear is a one sided, phonied up diatribe of cooked numbers and biased pseudo science parading as "serious " research.

If I'm the lone man on the planet who sees this lie to be what it is, it won't in the least bit change the facts.

Man is not causing the planet's temperature to rise.




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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 8:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


74% of the people say you're wrong. And that's not just in Missouri; you're wrong everywhere!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 8:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
74% of the people say you're wrong. And that's not just in Missouri; you're wrong everywhere!




Hell, as an atheist, those are promising numbers!

*95% of the people are duped into the belief of a God™.

Doesn't in the least bit prove that there is a god/ gods.

You can choose your own opinion. You can't choose your own facts.

* As of 2005 (most recent data), approximately 88 percent of the world's population were said to "believe in God" (Cambridge University). This is down from 96 percent in 2000. In the United States, 95 percent of the population "believe in God."




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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 9:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, I realize scientists are considered "elitist" by you and your buddies, but
Quote:

National and international science academies and scientific societies have assessed the current scientific opinion, in particular on recent global warming.
Quote:

An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.
No scientific body of national or international standing has maintained a dissenting opinion

Wiki
Quote:

The world's leading climate scientists said global warming has begun, is very likely caused by man, and will be unstoppable for centuries.... The phrase very likely translates to a more than 90 percent certainty that global warming is caused by man's burning of fossil fuels. That was the strongest conclusion to date, making it nearly impossible to say natural forces are to blame.

The report said that an increase in hurricane and tropical cyclone strength since 1970 more likely than not can be attributed to man-made global warming.

The Associated Press summarized the position on sea level rise:
Quote:

On sea levels, the report projects rises of 7-23 inches by the end of the century. That could be augmented by an additional 4-8 inches if recent polar ice sheet melt continues.

Wiki
Quote:

The evidence that global warming is happening now and that human activities are the primary cause is overwhelming. Indeed, recent research indicates that Earth's climate is changing more quickly than scientists had projected just a few years ago. Last week NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported that 2010 has been the warmest year worldwide so far recorded.
Quote:

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in recognition of the problem of global warming. Through the IPCC, climate experts from around the world synthesize the most recent climate science findings every five to seven years and present their report to the world’s political leaders. The IPCC has issued comprehensive assessments in 1990, 1996, 2001 and most recently the Fourth Assessment Report (AR4) released in 2007.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/ipcc-
backgrounder.html


Regarding the IPPC (The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change):
Quote:

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in recognition of the problem of global warming. Through the IPCC, climate experts from around the world synthesize the most recent climate science findings every five to seven years and present their report to the world’s political leaders. The IPCC has issued comprehensive assessments in 1990, 1996, 2001 and most recently the Fourth Assessment Report (AR4) released in 2007.

AR4 is the most comprehensive synthesis of climate change science to date. Experts from more than 130 countries contributed to this assessment, which represents six years of work. More than 450 lead authors have received input from more than 800 contributing authors, and an additional 2,500 experts reviewed the draft documents.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/ipcc-
backgrounder.html


You can see the effects if you look around you—it’s CLIMATE CHANGE, not just global warming:
Quote:

It is a fact, not a theory. Global warming is a measurable process that is already underway. Temperature changes, alterations in rainfall patterns, and an increased frequency of storms are occurring and being measured around the world as we speak. The evidence against global warming is not convincing in light of the effects we are witnessing already.
http://www.acoolerclimate.com/facts-about-global-warming.html

How about some answers to the “debunking” claims about climate change?
Quote:

1) There is "no real scientific proof" that the current warming is caused by the rise of greenhouse gases from man's activity.

Technically, proof exists only in mathematics, not in science. Whatever terminology you choose to use, however, there is overwhelming evidence that the current warming is caused by the rise in greenhouse gases due to human activities ( http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/2007/05/climate-myths-spe
cial.html
) .

2) Man-made carbon dioxide emissions throughout human history constitute less than 0.00022 per cent of the total naturally emitted from the mantle of the Earth during geological history.

Misleading comparison. Since the industrial age began human emissions are far higher than volcanic emissions ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11638) .

3) Warmer periods of the Earth's history came around 800 years before rises in CO2 levels.

In the past 3 million years changing levels of sunshine triggered and ended the ice ages. Carbon dioxide was a feedback that increased warming, rather than the initial cause. In the more distant past, several warming episodes were directly triggered by CO2. ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11659

4) After world war 2, there was a huge surge in recorded CO2 emissions but global temperatures fell for four decades after 1940.

In fact, temperatures fell during the 1940s and then remained roughly level until the late 1970s. The fall was partly due to high levels of pollutants such as sulphur dioxide counteracting the warming effect.

5) Throughout the Earth's history, temperatures have often been warmer than now and CO2 levels have often been higher - more than 10 times as high.

Which shows that higher CO2 means higher temperatures, taking into account the fact that the sun was cooler in the past. The crucial point is that civilisation is adapted to 20th century temperatures ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11647) .

6) Significant changes in climate have continually occurred throughout geologic time.

Yes. And sea level has been up to 70 metres higher during warm periods. If that happens again, there'll be no more London or New York.

7) The 0.7 °C increase in the average global temperature over the past hundred years is entirely consistent with well-established, long-term, natural climate trends.

Wrong. The rapid warming since the late 1970s has occurred even though other factors that can warm the planet, such as the sun's intensity, have remained constant ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11650) .

8) The IPCC theory is driven by just 60 scientists and favourable reviewers, not the 4000 usually cited.

Untrue, as even the briefest look at the scientific literature can establish.

9) Leaked e-mails from British climate scientists - in a scandal known as "climategate" - suggest that that has been manipulated to exaggerate global warming

Nothing in the emails undermines any of the key scientific conclusions ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18238) . Independent groups have come to the same conclusions.

10) A large body of scientific research suggests that the sun is responsible for the greater share of climate change during the past hundred years.

The sun may have contributed to the warming in the first part of the 20th century but it has not caused the rapid warming since the late 1970s ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11650) .

11) Politicians and activists claim rising sea levels are a direct cause of global warming, but sea levels have been increasing steadily since the last ice age 10,000 years ago.

Wrong. Sea level rose very rapidly as the North American ice sheet melted after the last ice age but levelled off and has been nearly stable for the past 2000 years or so. Now it is starting to rise rapidly again ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327151.300) .

12) Philip Stott, emeritus professor of biogeography at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London says climate change is too complicated to be caused by just one factor, whether CO2 or clouds.

He is right. All sorts of factors affect climate, even the lead in petrol. However, the recent warming is mostly due to rising greenhouse gases ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327151.300) , and if we pump out more CO2 it will get even hotter.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/12/50-reasons
-why-global-warming.html


There is tons more; they debunk 50 of the most common myths. I realize facts will do nothing to convince you and I won’t spend any more time on it. I feel I’ve made my point, and given it will have no effect on those not willing to learn about the facts, it’s sufficient. The links above lead to detailed articles on each issue.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, August 4, 2010 11:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I can cut and past equally accredited scientists, in weather specific fields, who can offer solid evidence too, but you'd dismiss them, out of hand, say they were bought and paid by big "somebody", and convince yourself you've done something special.


You haven't.




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