Tea Party - From Libertarian to Anti Obamian by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Tea Party - From Libertarian to Anti Obamian

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, August 9, 2010 07:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1258
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, August 6, 2010 3:17 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Niki and I had a brief discussion about the Tea Party in another thread. She mentioned that she had never heard of the Tea Party until they became a platform to assault the policies of President Obama. I told her that I remembered a largely Libertarian Tea Party (of which I was a participant) that lined up behind Ron Paul before the presidential election. I spent some time today looking for specifics to refresh my memory. I didn't have to look far. Wikipedia to the rescue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement

Quote:

"The Libertarian theme of the "tea party" began with Republican Congressman Ron Paul supporters as a fund raising event during the 2008 presidential primaries to emphasize Paul's fiscal conservatism, which laid the groundwork for the modern-day Tea Party movement. On December 16, 2007, the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party, Ron Paul supporters raised 6 million dollars in 24 hours in individual donations.[20][21][22][23]

On January 19, 2009, someone on FedUpUSA posted an invitation "to a Commemorative Tea Party" protest in Boston on February 1.[24] On February 11, talk radio host and Fox Business Network personality Dave Ramsey appeared on Fox and Friends, waving tea bags and saying, "It's time for a Tea Party."[25]

But the dominant theme seen at some of the earliest anti-stimulus protests was pork rather than tea.[26] The term "porkulus" was coined by radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh on his January 27, 2009, broadcast[27] in reference to both the 2009 stimulus bill, which was just introduced to the House of Representatives the day before, as well as to pork barrel spending and earmarks.[28] This proved very popular with conservative politicians and commentators,[29] who began to unify in opposition to the September 2008 bailout package.

[edit] Early local protest events
On January 24, 2009 Trevor Leach and members of the Young Americans for Liberty held a Tea Party in response to a proposed 18% tax increase in New York on non-diet sodas.[30][31]

According to FreedomWorks state and federal campaigns director Brendan Steinhauser,[32][33] activist Mary Rakovich[34] was the organizer of a February 10, 2009 protest in Fort Myers, Florida, calling it the, "first protest of President Obama's administration that we know of."[35]"

One can forgive people for not knowing that there was a Tea Party before President Obama. It started in late 2007 to raise money for Ron Paul's presidential campaign. (I donated, and got a bumper sticker that refuses to die. If you ever need to manufacture a bumper sticker, find out who the Ron Paul campaign used!) Ron Paul's campaign was dubbed the Ron Paul rEVOLution. The EVOL were capitalized and highlighted to emphasize that the movement was centered around LOVE. It was a heady time for me, the first time I got really excited about politics. The first time I believed I could evoke change in the landscape of the nation. Ron Paul's campaign was doing far better than common sense would lead you to expect.

It didn't last.

But you will note that the early Tea Party that backed Ron Paul was largely Libertarian and it was arguing against the established policies of a Republican presidency. Ron Paul and his supporters felt that the Republicans had lost their way and fallen far from their stated ideals. Even though the early Tea Partiers were dissatisfied with Bush's policies, one did not see much anti-Bush signage at these things. Negativity was discouraged.

After the election, I lost a taste for the movement. It seemed to me that instead of the movement changing the Republicans, the Republicans changed the movement. By early 2009, it was an anti-Democrat, anti-Obama society. Negativity was everywhere. The rEVOLution was over.

Talk of Revolution began.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 6, 2010 3:47 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I wanted to share the beloved (by me) Ron Paul rEVOLution symbol. I wish current talk of revolution would change focus back to the LOVE.

These rallies were anti-things and not anti-people. I miss them.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 6, 2010 3:55 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RonPaulSupporters-DurhamNHdebate-5se
pt07.JPG

Hello,

This is the sort of display I remember from back then. No negativity, no suggestions of violence. And the oft-forgotten fact that there was more than one candidate campaigning on a message of Hope.

All right, I'll try to tone down the nostalgia now. :-)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 6, 2010 4:49 PM

CHRISISALL

Run TO something, not just away from something.

Except explosions.

The laughing Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 6, 2010 5:28 PM

SERGEANTX

Thanks for posting that Anthony. You pretty much nailed my experience as well. It was a "heady" time indeed and I really had the feeling that my people were out there, that they cared and that LOVE was very much at the core of it.

Sadly, I see almost none of that in the current Tea Party movement.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 6, 2010 5:56 PM

ELVISCHRIST

There is nothing in the tea party but republicans anymore.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 7, 2010 3:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I wanted to share the beloved (by me) Ron Paul rEVOLution symbol. I wish current talk of revolution would change focus back to the LOVE.

'Love' is spelled backwards. The opposite of love is hate.

Ron Paul and the conservatives are all about hate.

( just an example of the idiocy that the Left will come up with, to avoid having to deal w/ the issues. I know them so damn well )

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 7, 2010 3:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
There is nothing in the tea party but republicans anymore.

And Independents.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 7, 2010 3:38 AM

KANEMAN

Anthonyt, the evol in the ron paul revolution was love for the country and constitution......How you were ever a supporter of that just shows you are a mental midget. That you can change your ideology from ron paul, fucking RON PAUL, to your present day big government take...shows you have ZERO conviction and ZERO credibility. If I were you I'd take an inventory of your balls, my guess is you don't have any.........the spelling fairy is the likely culprit.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 7, 2010 3:51 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
There is nothing in the tea party but republicans anymore.

And Independents.

Lots of independents, but you should have asked what the fuck he meant by "anymore"? We were Ron Paul supporters. We were all republicans. There weren't many democrats in the tea party back then

And if these clowns think the RP revolution was about LOVE they are misguided idiots. Take away welfare, department of education, IRS, end the FED, shrink government, end affirmative action,..etc etc etc....give me a fucking break(although i guess making people accountable for their own lives could be viewed as love). I sometimes wonder if all fans of firefly were old hippies. No wonder it got canceled...I need to go throw up now....

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 7, 2010 6:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Thanks for posting that Anthony. You pretty much nailed my experience as well. It was a "heady" time indeed and I really had the feeling that my people were out there, that they cared and that LOVE was very much at the core of it.

Sadly, I see almost none of that in the current Tea Party movement.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

Hello,

I fear you are correct. I have lately gotten the impression that the current Tea Partiers are all too ready to bash anyone who doesn't fully embrace their vision.

You know what was most impressive to me in the Ron Paul days? We had some Democrats with us. Common sense would tell you that no Democrat or Leftist could possibly support Ron Paul. But this was possible for two reasons.

First, the parry did not bash people who only supported some of its planks. This is one of the places where I think the LOVE of the rEVOLution shined. As in all reasonable political parties, people would join who might only believe in 50% of the party position. Instead of badgering these people, the rEVOLutionaries would embrace them. You might get a spirited debate, but no crassness, no insults. Smiling faces and hope for the future.

Second, the party used to believe in things that many Leftists and Democrats could get behind. Ending the wars, reducing military spending, stopping military adventurism, protecting privacy and individual freedom, and legalizing drugs were all planks of the platform, and all things that many on the Left could embrace fully.

The Tea Partiers of old were sensible enough to realize that a person who wanted something opposed to the party position... like say Universal Health Care, could still stand beside them as a friend. Because there were so many things that they could agree on.

LOVE was more than LOVE for Country or some kind of super-patriotism. It was also LOVE for your fellow man, and finding the commonality between people instead of the differences.

All of this seems lost now, to the point that some current Tea Partiers might almost find it an abomination to call a Democrat a friend and ally in the same cause. "But you want X" they might decry, forgetting that W, Y, and Z are still goals in common, and so they discard a potential ally because of the differences between them.

Ron Paul himself still shows a brilliant open-mindedness and willingness to work with different people who share goals in common.

Meanwhile, the current Tea Party that he helped to found during his Presidential campaign has morphed to include a majority of folks who would rather lash out at someone with a Liberal idea rather than embrace him and find the commonality between them.

I think this shift in attitude is the reason why the future of the Tea Party is in doubt. Every day, I hope they can recapture the LOVE of the rEVOLution. Perhaps they can look upon the father of the movement, Ron Paul, and remember that he never pushes people away, even when he disagrees with them. If they can remember that example, they might have a future.

But then, I feel the Tea Party has 'grown' beyond Ron Paul. And as big as they are, they don't seem to have room for people like me any more.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 7, 2010 7:49 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I fear you are correct. I have lately gotten the impression that the current Tea Partiers are all too ready to bash anyone who doesn't fully embrace their vision.

That's part of my disappointment, to be sure. But there was also an element of earnestness and genuine grassroots activism in those precious few months that verged on spiritual for me. The sense of people "waking up" and realizing that there could be other options, that we could make other options, that we didn't have to settle for the jaded drone of the status quo - it gave me hope, hope that there might be real change.

And all of it was so organic and spontaneous. I don't know if Niki or the rest of you realize it, but those first several online efforts, the money bombs that set political fundraising records, weren't initiated by Ron Paul. They weren't the orchestrated efforts of his official campaign, they weren't promoted by large corporate benefactors and they sure as hell weren't supported by the leadership of the Republican party. They were the result of a few inspired individuals and pockets of people around the country who believed we could have a real impact.

I think I remember when I saw it start to die, when I first saw the writing on the wall. It was late in the primaries and becoming obvious that McCain would win - and equally obvious, to those paying attention, that he and the Republicans were a sinking ship. That was about the time that Glen Beck, and his ilk, did a 180 in their appraisal of Ron Paul and his "revolution". Beck, who only a few months earlier had loudly declared Paul a "terrorist", began to see the libertarian angle as a way for the Republicans to save themselves.

Shortly thereafter, the Republican mainstream began migrating into the Tea Party movement. The "parties" became angrier, and dumber, and the recipients of large cash donations from the Republican mainstream. They "progressively" ignored and dropped the anti-war, freedom focused, aspect of the original movement, instead focusing on the things that would get the rednecks riled up - taxes, immigration, civil rights etc.. Essentially they traded in the LOVE for the MAD.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 8, 2010 6:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, damn. I missed all of that, and if I'd known about it (at least given what I've heard of it at various times HERE), I'd have been part of it.

Blame the media, who didn't give it fair or enough coverage. I think a LOT more people would have joined if we'd known what was actually going on. It was portrayed at the time as a crazy movement headed by a crazy person...good old censorship/maniuplation of the news! I NEVER heard about the "love" thing at all.

Your description of what it morphed into is right on, to me; that's what I've seen and heard and read since Obama took office. It saddens me greatly, especially in that those in the "party" don't seem to even know what they're FOR, just what they're AGAINST, and have no problem going to extremes. It's unhealthy and I fear, again, that without realizing it they are promoting things which go against their own self-interest. The big furor over "don't let the government run my healthcare, but don't take away my Medicare" was a particular case in point.

Maybe another movement will come along someday to replace what you speak of. If so, I'd strongly advise they get the word out better, somehow, so those of us who could have joined will have the chance to do so!

The current Tea Party inspires no fear in me; I'm pretty sure electing hard-core right-wingers in primaries won't engender success in the general election (or at least I pray not!). Mostly they are a sad joke to me, very sad--I wish they were grass roots, but tho' it may have started that way, I'm pretty sure the GOP has its ingers in the pie pretty solidly by now. They're a useful tool for the Republicans, and the Republican politicians have always been pros at using the tools available to them!

Y'know, looking at what's been written about their platform, coupled with the "love" and respecting one another, there's an awful lot in common with the hippie movement. Was never a party and didn't put up any viable candidates that I know of, but the concepts had similarities. Maybe some movement like that comes along cyclically and will reappear in future. It would be nice if it were so, as what we have now is a gross prostitution of both parties.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 8, 2010 10:49 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Alas, Sarge, I had seen the writing on the wall for the Libertarian party even before that, the day they ignored their own base and installed that butthead Barr, I realized they'd been hopelessly co-opted at the top and were just exploiting the party as a spoiler, and potential escape route when their antics finally caught up with them, and so too did thus go the Tea Party...

The instant ANY social circle closes, and starts rejecting new people, new ideas, rejecting even people who mostly agree with em cause they want total compliance....

Not only are they doomed, they become my enemy, because I know the bitter weed which grows from THAT seed all too well.

We seriously, seriously, need to do better - neither party can even seriously offer us anything we want, why should we just sit back and take these pathetic pablum candidates they shove off on us, instead of standing up and demanding something better ?

Hell, I bet that if we started pushing for an Alan Grayson/Ron Paul split ticket now, we could indeed pull it off, cause that's both ends and the middle, and both candidates are talkin about things we WANT, common sense, fiscal responsibility, an end to the insanity...

For myself, I'm actually mocking it on a local level, since I got stuffed on the ballot I got em to change it from "Democrat" (WHY they listed me as one I couldn't tell ya) to "Evil Overlord".
So yes, there is officially, in this county, an "Evil Overlord" party, now, not that it matters since the local politicos haven't really done a bad job, but I wanna see how much mileage that gets, since they stuck me on the damn thing without so much as askin.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:07 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Alas, Sarge, I had seen the writing on the wall for the Libertarian party even before that ...

Indeed. I gave up them in the mid nineties, at least on the party proper. That's why I was so inspired by the RP Revolution. It was exactly what the Libertarian Party should have been doing all along. But at the point I walked away, the party was dominated by either radical iconoclasts, more interested in being big-fish in their small pond if ideological purity - or by Republicans who wanted to seem "edgy". The few of us who wanted to forge real momentum didn't stand a chance.

Quote:
We seriously, seriously, need to do better - neither party can even seriously offer us anything we want, why should we just sit back and take these pathetic pablum candidates they shove off on us, instead of standing up and demanding something better ?

What I find so stunning is how short memories weened on television culture can be. I mean, it's nice to see people calling Obama on his bullshit, but are they really considering putting the republicans back in?!?!

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 8, 2010 11:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
What I find so stunning is how short memories weened on television culture can be. I mean, it's nice to see people calling Obama on his bullshit, but are they really considering putting the republicans back in?!?!

*headdesk*
I KNOW!!

It's like, ok, yes - this asshole is capitalizing on the abuses, okay, we're all well aware of this...

And yet the "solution" they wanna offer us is to hand it all back to the shitheels who committed those abuses in the first place ?!

WHISKEY, TANGO, FOXTROT, Over?

I haven't been hit in the head nearly enough times to make THAT sound like a good idea!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 9, 2010 5:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, I do a lot of

and

over that one, too. You can't prove a negative; but do these people really believe things would have been better under McCain and the Repubs?? Or would be again?

It's just blind "I hate you" without any thought as to where they'd be if the alternative were true...or where they'd be headed...

Just because Obama hasn't turned out to be what he was hyped to be OR how horrible they thought he would be hasn't gotten through; they believe he's done things he hasn't because that's what they EXPECTED, and you know about facts changing minds...

He has disappointed the left, I think, for many of the same reasons. Isn't there something about "If I make both sides angry, I know I"m doing something right?" NOT that he is, but back to what we had before?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 9, 2010 5:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Remember, Niki - there are those on this very site who will swear up and down that Obama has already enacted enormous tax increases. Not that he *MIGHT*, or that he *COULD*, but that he already HAS.

Really, how is one supposed to try to speak reasonably with such incompetence?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 9, 2010 6:42 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Remember, Niki - there are those on this very site who will swear up and down that Obama has already enacted enormous tax increases. Not that he *MIGHT*, or that he *COULD*, but that he already HAS.

Depending on the administration's legal angle du jour, the health insurance mandate is a tax. Except when it's not.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 9, 2010 6:51 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Remember, Niki - there are those on this very site who will swear up and down that Obama has already enacted enormous tax increases. Not that he *MIGHT*, or that he *COULD*, but that he already HAS.

Depending on the administration's legal angle du jour, the health insurance mandate is a tax. Except when it's not.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

And depending on who you talk to, it's also a tax CUT - a tax BREAK you get to deduct from your federal income taxes.

It's all in who you're talking to, and how they want to portray it.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 9, 2010 7:04 AM

SERGEANTX

Nah.. you can't throw it up in the air and pretend it all falls down equal. How is it a tax cut if your taxes just stay the same? At best it's a tax "incentive" (for the people who do as they're told) that exactly matches a tax increase for all of us.

It doesn't matter so much to me what you call it. It's either a big tax increase (interestingly, targeted at people who can't afford health insurance - weird, huh?), or it's a federal order to buy insurance from their corporate buddies. Obama didn't want it to be considered a tax because he knows that a large chunk of voters are simpletons who will only ask "will my taxes go up?" and he wanted to be able to say no. Thus the mandate. But as the mandate's constitutionality is called into question, they're juking and jiving and saying "well, it's actually a tax, see, and taxes are perfectly constitutional... yada, yada."

He wants it both ways.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE