Bitchy Moms, Slutty Daughters by piratenews

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
I think it shows how far we HAVEN'T come, that the only thing that some people can say about the whole feminist agenda past and present is that those making the argument aren't beautiful enough to be taken seriously. I mean, isn't that kind of QED.

Or they're lesbians. Think about it. Read this thread and the posts from so many of the "men" so far. The implication is that if you believe in equal rights for women, you're either too ugly to get a man, or you're a dyke who doesn't want a man, and either way, your views should be dismissed because you don't count as far as society is concerned.

Seems too many of the "men" around here want to view women as little more than sex toys, but can't handle the idea that some women might view them the same way. If a woman has little use for men except for occasional sexual gratification, they want to marginalize you as ugly or lesbians, or both.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 6:57 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Of course the differences I meant were psychological, not physical; I’m assuming you’re addressing that part. Because thinking is FAR more “nurture” than “nature”, and we’ve got an entire history of male dominance and rote culture. It IS also genetic, in that both sexes still carry genetic “memories” and those influence them, but otherwise, I’m with Byte. It wouldn’t be the way it still (largely) is if it hadn’t started that way and STAYED that way. We can blame the physical, in that the first cavemen dominated he first cavewomen and it went from there, but we should be beyond that by now, don’tcha think?

Quote:
They were considered a threat to society, family values, the sanctity of the role of (______) in society.

Damn, I could swear I heard something like that recently...I just can’t remember WHERE....

As to the occasional sexist comments, as you mentioned, Byte; I flirted like crazy when I was younger, and still indulge in sexist repartee; I’m not sensitive either. I only care when it gets SERIOUS. It’s not like racism, to me, given we ARE 50% of the population, we’re not a minority in that way.

Oh, Kiki, WONDERFUL point, thank you! The big complaint that feminists aren’t beautiful is largely because they don’t primp and wear tons of makeup, as society demands women do to be “beautiful”. That photo is a perfect example of a reality which doesn’t exist, except in very rare instances, and men drooling over such women is like little boys drooling over photos in Playboy...except the little boys don’t KNOW they’re faked!

Magons, when it comes to Rusbaugh, see, it doesn’t matter to males if the MALE authority figure is ugly, it only matters that the FEMALE one is beautiful.

Which got me started on something I’m going to have fun with, just ‘cuz I can’t resist. It only took a few minutes. If you saw these women standing up making speeches as “feminists”, how many of THEM would you call beautiful?

You’re probably drooled over a few of these, and you can say “oh, but their faces are distorted, they’re talking, etc.”. Well, most of the time you see photos of feminists, they’re talking or something. And bear in mind that even some of THESE have had surgical improvements.

Now, there are some women who are born with enough natural beauty that they can get away with it, in my opinion:

But most get to look the way you see them because our culture wants women beautiful, if they can,, however they achieve it. So grow up, fellahs, as Kiki said, what you admire doesn’t really exist. It’s been “shaved, scrubbed, bleached, enhanced, made-up, primped, vanity-lighted, posed, airbrushed, digitally-modified” beyond recognition..
Anti-feminists get all dolled up, because that’s what’s expected of them to appeal to the audience; same with politicians and pundits. If you saw the real women without makeup, you wouldn’t be so quick to say “righty” women were all beautiful and feminists were all ugly”.

Speaking of pundits and politicians:

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:27 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Blah blah blah...

Get in the kitchen and make me a sammich.

"Well, most of the time you see photos of feminists, they’re talking or something.."

I agree, they never seem to shut the fuck up, do they?

lol

Ok, but in all seriousness... I view feminists today as just spoiled children.

"Barbie makes me feel fat!" No, its the fat that makes you feel fat.

If you really want to do something about womens rights... go to places where they don't have any.

Btw: Being hairy, ugly, mouthy, smelly, saggy, and loud is absolutly your right... but then don't bitch if most men don't want to be anywhere near you. Or hire you. Or talk to you. And generally laugh at you.

Its your right to be that way, and its our right not to be around you if you are going to be that way.

Feminism is all about choices, isn't it?

So you CAN choose to be that way, and become a social pariah... or a bull dyke... and most people can CHOOSE to think of you as a freak.

Choices, choices, choices.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Rap ...

I hate to tell you this but ...

... this is a shaved, scrubbed, bleached, enhanced, made-up, primped, vanity-lighted, posed, airbrushed, digitally-modified, selected image that even the real version wouldn't stand up to in a face to face comparison, let alone day to day.

If you need this kind of never-to-be-attained fantasy to get it on - presumably with yourself - there's something wrong with you, boy.

So, you're saying Jessica Alba isn't attractive, unless she's airbrushed ?

wow.

I could post any of 100 pics of her, simply walking along the street, or in a bathing suit, and she'd look as gorgeous in one pic as she does the next.

And here's the kicker - I see amazingly beautiful women every day, in jeans and t-shirts, casual wear, office attire... but hey, if that's something which you view as " unattainable ", by all means, go live in that world.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:07 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

An oldie-but-a-goodie.

As we are on FFF.net...

"A Rapist’s View of the World: Our Mrs. Reynolds: Part One"

http://allecto.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/a-rapists-view-of-the-world-ou
r-mrs-reynolds-part-one/

Like facism, racism, socialism.... feminism is an extreme... and has failed.

Doesn't stop idiots from trying to push it on others tho.

(Even this person made mention of how feminism is a dying belief system, here:

http://allecto.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/where-are-all-the-younger-lesb
ian-feministsseparatists/

ETA: Oh, and if anyone wants to post agreements/arguments with this alecto person... well, it does not allow discussion. "I don't believe in free speech..." is what its site says.

How appropriate.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Meh, I won't even get into standards of appearance as for the most part I consider them meaningless - but I do find people who look... artificial, on purpose, somewhat of an affront, it's unnatural, like a face without features, there's just something damn creepy about it.

I do feel the need to point out to Wulfie that a smart person stops digging when they're hip-deep and their mouth is running - given that his rhetoric sounds an awful lot like the damn Taliban in regards to RAWA.

Yeah, you think American feminists are hardcore, you don't know shit, it's one thing to risk ridicule and discrimination, but an order of magnitude greater to risk your neck by offending all three factions, the Taliban, the Warlords, and the corrupt Kharazi goons we're proppin up, NONE of whom have the slightest respect for women what-so-ever, and do it in a non violent fashion.

Hell, they got the primary principle of HOW, down better than we've ever managed.
http://www.rawa.org/r-scho.htm

Not that it's easy, either.
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/08/09/afghan-schools-safe-havenso
.html

Nor do they get anything but short-shrift from American forces since they've no more love for us than any other petty warlord, and often enough Kharazis little berks have duped us into being the proxies by getting schools bombed by claiming they are terrorist camps, crap like that - we CLAIM to be bringing "democracy" to em, but in truth we're just proppin up another warlord, cause where's the American respect for equality, education, freedom, when these schools come under fire ?
Oh, yeah, right, more than half the time we're the ones doin the shooting.

Conversely, you got the damned NFA, which has so far avoided engagement with US forces, but you think the pendulum has swung too far, there's one place you could make an example - I don't think a radical matriarchy is any kind of decent answer to the Taliban, cause all you're doin it swapping the leash from one chromosone set to another, and curse the damn russians for supporting them, something we SHOULD be takin them to task for, cause while they coulda got helicopters somewhere else, only the russkies coulda got em working tanks.

It's also unwise to push the concept "feminism is so awful" too far around me - both due to my support of RAWA, and the plain and simple fact that most of the lame bullshit excuses for abusing women are STILL used in this country to abuse children, and so those decrying they cannot smack their wives around any more tend to draw my ire as a threat to the pathetic progress we HAVE made, as partains to social advancement.

-Frem

PS. RAWA currently needs water purity testing equipment due to repeated attempts to contaminate the water supplies of their schools, see their wish list on Amazon for more information.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Blah blah blah...

Get in the kitchen and make me a sammich.

"Well, most of the time you see photos of feminists, they’re talking or something.."

I agree, they never seem to shut the fuck up, do they?

So every picture of you is with your mouth open, then? LOL.

Quote:

Ok, but in all seriousness... I view feminists today as just spoiled children.

As I view you. You've never achieved anything in your life. You've never given anything back. You've never DONE anything. You're alive, sucking air and spewing garbage. That's not an accomplishment, son.

Quote:

"Barbie makes me feel fat!" No, its the fat that makes you feel fat.

And it's your ignorance that makes you look ignorant. :)

Quote:

If you really want to do something about womens rights... go to places where they don't have any.

I will if you will. You're so gung-ho about gun rights. Take all your guns, shove them up your ass, and go try to smuggle them into Australia and tell them all how they're doing it wrong, why don'tchya?

Quote:

Btw: Being hairy, ugly, mouthy, smelly, saggy, and loud is absolutly your right... but then don't bitch if most men don't want to be anywhere near you. Or hire you. Or talk to you. And generally laugh at you.

Now you're getting it. You realize why nobody here wants to know you, right?

Quote:

Its your right to be that way, and its our right not to be around you if you are going to be that way.

Yup. Couldn't agree more.

Quote:

Feminism is all about choices, isn't it?

Isn't all of life about choices?

Quote:

So you CAN choose to be that way, and become a social pariah... or a bull dyke... and most people can CHOOSE to think of you as a freak.

Choices, choices, choices.

So which are you, Wulfie? Bull dyke? Social pariah? Freak? You realize you've just described yourself in exquisite detail, right?

So get in that kitchen and make me a goddam sammich, bitch!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
An oldie-but-a-goodie.

As we are on FFF.net...

"A Rapist’s View of the World: Our Mrs. Reynolds: Part One"

http://allecto.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/a-rapists-view-of-the-world-ou
r-mrs-reynolds-part-one/

Like facism, racism, socialism.... feminism is an extreme... and has failed.

Doesn't stop idiots from trying to push it on others tho.

Y'know, CAPITALISM is one of the extremes, too, Wulfie my child. And it has quite a spectacular history of failure as well. In fact, it's crumbling around you right now.

But don't let that stop you idiots from trying to push it on others, though.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Capitalism may very well be the greatest achievement by mankind.

And you want to claim that it's crumbling and a failure ?

Figures.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:28 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No, Byte, more like around 13 or 14, when puberty strikes and suddenly boys want all girls to look like movie stars so they can get their rocks off in the bathroom to their pictures.

At 4 they don't know the difference.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:32 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh, speakin of that make me a sammich crack and Nanoha Takamachi, something I wanted to mention earlier...

Yanno, most of the wingnuts would actually like the kid for the same reasons I don't like her or that series very much - Wendy does, but only "because I like watching her smack the crap out of people."

You see, Nanoha is a *BIG* believer in might-makes-right, and do-it-my-way-or-else, and I think those are the wrong lessons to be bringing to the intended audience with a role model every bit as holier-than-thou as the morons who currently run most of our society, whos response to being rebuffed is to start blowing shit up.

NOT exactly the kinda role model I approve of, mind you, although admittedly I don't have that much room to talk...

Other than to mention I ain't exactly no kinda role model neither.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 10:03 AM

BYTEMITE

Beatupplenty is not Bytemite.

Arguably, Bytemite is not always Bytemite. >D

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 10:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Capitalism may very well be the greatest achievement by mankind.

Fire. Writing. Science. The internet. THOSE are great achievements.

Capitalism??

Feh.

You're such a child. And a stupid, fatuous child at that.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:07 PM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Capitalism may very well be the greatest achievement by mankind.
Fire. Writing. Science. The internet. THOSE are great achievements.

Capitalism??

Feh.

Of course a hard-core Marxist like you would think that. Easy for you to let your tunnel-visioned ideology blind you to the fact that Capitalism made the USA the greatest and most successful country on Earth, the highest standard of living and envy of the entire world. But you'd so prefer living in Cuba I'll bet. I hear they're giving out extra canned octopus ration cards this week.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:22 PM

The U.S. barely makes it into the top 10 for standard of living.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 12:25 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Nice weather, pretty beaches, interesting lively culture, good health care...don't know about 'live' but I'd go there for a year

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 4:39 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Classic misdirection...or stupidity.

We were talking about feminism... not capitalism.

I notice noone has anything to say about alecto, or her(?) rant on joss or Firefly...

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 4:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Classic misdirection...or stupidity.

We were talking about feminism... not capitalism.

I notice noone has anything to say about alecto, or her(?) rant on joss or Firefly...

Hey, you brought up "isms" and extremes; I just pointed out one more "ism" - capitalism - that, when taken to extremes, collapses and takes down everything around it.

As for "alecto", I think I read a little bit of her batshit lunacy some years ago, and dismissed her and her views as no more valid than PN's garbage. Or RivKaneKirkZit's.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 7:21 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Nice weather, pretty beaches, interesting lively culture, good health care...don't know about 'live' but I'd go there for a year

Hello,

You might not want to buy all the propaganda on that score, Magons. On the one hand you have a government propaganda division with interests in presenting a facade, and on the other hand you have an American propagandist with an interest in buying it.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
the highest standard of living and envy of the entire world.

We lost THAT title about 12 years ago. Nice to see you keep up with current events!

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Sunday, August 15, 2010 9:35 PM

AGENTROUKA

Wulf,

that woman does not represent the entirety of feminism. She is one woman with one (rather extreme) opinion that a vast, vast majority of Firefly fans, men and women, have disagreed with.

I am a feminist and I disagree with her. I find her opinions to be unsupported by the series. She's, of course, entitled to her own opinion.

Feminism is not a uniform movement, obviously. The basic tenets have to do with respect, equality and choices. From there on, there starts variation to more or less extreme ends.

Were you going to hold her up as a prime representative of all things feminist? Because that would be very wrong.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 3:51 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Quote from the article above:

"I do think that feminism needs to change its image. We should be saying, “Feminists ARE hairy, man-hating, prudish, fat, ugly, dykey and radical”. "

Now, to be clear, I have nothing against a woman wanting to be treated the same as a man.

Except, men and women are different.

Women should be treated with respect, and their thoughts and ideas should be given the same consideration as a mans.

They should also not be abused or mistreated.

My problem with "Western" feminism is simply this... its gone from being about equal rights to placating and pandering.

Again, if someone considers themselves a feminist... they should go to places where women truly are mistreated.

But we rarely hear about that.

The underlying truth to it is that its just simply too dangerous, simply too much work.

In other words, walking down a street in Kabul, carrying a sign, screaming about feminism, lesbianism, etc will most likely get you shot. Or worse.

So not only is American/British/Aussie "feminism" looking for special consideration, and pandering and handouts... its also completely cowardly.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 4:17 AM

Quote:

Again, if someone considers themselves a feminist... they should go to places where women truly are mistreated.

But we rarely hear about that.

The underlying truth to it is that its just simply too dangerous, simply too much work.

In other words, walking down a street in Kabul, carrying a sign, screaming about feminism, lesbianism, etc will most likely get you shot. Or worse.

So not only is American/British/Aussie "feminism" looking for special consideration, and pandering and handouts... its also completely cowardly.

You have just perfectly summed up the entire "tea party" movement. Try replacing "feminist" with words like "patriot" or "freedom lover", and see what the above quote looks like.

Now, why are you still here in America? Why didn't you volunteer to go fight for what you supposedly believe in? Is it because you're such a complete coward?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 4:57 AM

AGENTROUKA

Wulf,

I still don't see how this one person's opinion about feminism is supposed to say anything about the entirety of a heterogenic movement. Why did you even bring it up?

I also don't see how not going to Kabul to fight for women's rights there discredits women who still see evidence of inequality in Western societies and want to change it here. Or who simply are feminists here, wanting to uphold the values that others have fought for. That's a ridiculous expectation, in fact. It's like saying you can't believe in democracy unless you go to every place on Earth that doesn't practice it and just make it happen there or die trying. Bull. You live your believes no matter where you happen to spend your life.

Feminism isn't a profession. It's a political and cultural value system. And it's not a "wait for the slow ones to catch up" game, either. Nor a "be grateful you have come as far as you have" one.

I'm not saying every cause pursued by self-declared feminist women is necessarily a worthy one (see the woman who wrote the article) but neither is a feminist cause automatically frivolous simply because compared to really shitty places women in Western societies have it pretty well. There is no finish line after which point you have to cease being a feminist.

It's supposed to be an ongoing discussion between women, between men and between both genders (and in-betweeners) to both create equality AND harmony. Conflict is the natural stage before that and since feminism is a DANG young concept in human history, we are obviously still square in the middle of conflicts. In every society.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 5:20 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Well said Rouka.

Quote:
I still don't see how this one person's opinion about feminism is supposed to say anything about the entirety of a heterogenic movement. Why did you even bring it up?

To straw man feminism, would be my guess.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 5:45 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"It's supposed to be an ongoing discussion between women, between men and between both genders (and in-betweeners) to both create equality AND harmony."

IF it were that, I would have very little issue with it.

But its not.

Its another -ism.

And, Im curious... How do non-radical feminists think that modern American society is inequal towards women?

Not to snark, but I don't see many American women wearing burquas, being stoned, or having the "rose" cut.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 6:10 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
And, Im curious... How do non-radical feminists think that modern American society is inequal towards women?

Good question, and your curiosity commends you. Unless you are unwilling to conceive of anything less than stoning and genital mutilation being 'inequality'.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 6:44 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Im fully willing to admit that things like not having the right to vote IS an inequality.

Being Pro-choice is also something I'll agree with, even if I do have reservations about its impact on society and family.

I'll even agree that IF a woman can prove that she is paid less for doing the EXACT (completely exact) same job, then there is an issue to be resolved with it.

As to what else there could be, I'm in the dark about it.

Paid maternity leave? Thats a personal choice to become pregnant, AND its not like men get the same treatement...

So, out of curiosity (maybe sadism as the buzzards start cawing, looking right at Kwick..)

What are the issues that modern day feminists believe they face?

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Monday, August 16, 2010 7:32 AM

Sadism is just another "-ism", Wulfie.

And so is "patriotism", "American exceptionalism", and your sacred tea-partyism.

That's how I know you're a crackpot - because you cling to so many "-isms" (hey, if you can use that logic, don't be surprised when it's used against you!)

I do note for the record that you refuse to answer my questions about why you won't go out and fight for your beliefs. Why haven't you gone to spread freedom and democracy (aka "Americanism") to the rest of the world? Shouldn't you be in Myanmar, facing down the ruling military junta? I thought you wanted to be a hero! Looks to all of us here like you're just another scared little boy, afraid to go out and stand up for the things you pretend you believe in.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 7:41 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I wasn't talking to you Kwick. You are fully allowed to have your own opinions, but we are trying to have an actual discourse on an interesting subject here.

I understand your desire to threadjack, muck up and generally pick at anything some here say, but really... maybe you can do it another time?

Also, if you are able, please stop following me around from thread to thread... I appreciate the flattery in what you do, but Im really just not interested in bantering with you.

Im sure Kane, or someone else would be more willing to play with you... but as for me, you've just kind of gotten boring.

No offense really, and Im sure youll have ALL sorts of things to say to this post... but Ill leave it at that.

You're boring, you have no intention of expanding your thought and Im a little bit tired of trying with you.

So... have fun trying to bother someone else. K?

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Monday, August 16, 2010 8:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, I don't know if I qualify as a "feminist" per se in the common vernacular, but I'm certainly not radical anything (well, except the environment and animals).

Websters defines feminism as "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes". So I'm a feminist by that definition of the word. It's one thing I've never participated in protests about, but I feel strongly about it.

Interestingly, Britanica Online has a line you'll appreciate: "...redefined women and girls as assertive, powerful, and in control of their own sexuality ... and the women depicted in television series such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997–2003)...."

I don't think there's anything wrong with your question; in fact, it's very appropriate, as it's something about which numerous myths continue. The general attitude among many IS that we've reached parity, but we haven't. We still have a long ways to go. The concept of equality for women is still a very young one; bear in mind that at the end of the 19th century in France, they were still compelled to cover their heads in public, and, in parts of Germany, a husband still had the right to sell his wife. Attitudes of sexism still exist everywhere.

As far as what is still needed, for me it comes down to

Equal opportunities.

More women in power, CEOs, politicians, legislators.

Less sexist attitudes, portrayals, language that demeans women (tho' that will probably be the last thing to change, given male mentality).

No victimization of women.

Fairness in prosecution of rape.

True equality in pay.

You seem to think we're "there", but we're far from it:

Quote:
The most troubling result is that among women, education difference matters very little when stacked up against male counterparts. Evidently, a woman with a four-year degree will earn equal wages as her male counterpart without a four-year degree, over her lifetime. So that very expensive, hard-earned piece of paper hanging behind her desk will earn her just about what a (free!) high school education earns a typical American male over the course of her career.

Quote:
A study at Cornell University concluded in 2005 found that women with children were less likely to be hired and if hired would be paid a lower salary than male applicants.[7] Conversely, male applicants with children were likely to be offered higher pay than women with children or people without children. Harvard University professor Hannah Riley Bowles and Carnegie Mellon Professor of Economics Linda Babcock also conducted a study, published in 2007, that found that women are penalized when they try to negotiate starting salaries. Male evaluators tended to rule against women who negotiated but were less likely to penalize men; female evaluators tended to penalize both men and women who negotiated, and preferred applicants who did not ask for more. The study also showed that women who applied for jobs were not as likely to be hired by male managers if they tried to ask for more money, while men who asked for a higher salary were not negatively affected.

shows the gap, and interestingly, the gap between men and women is highest in Asians and Caucasians; lower among Hispanics and Blacks. This no doubt represents the fact that Asians and Caucasians more often end up in the corporate world, where salaries are higher to begin with.

As to victimization of women:

Quote:
Every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.

One in six American women, and one in 33 men.

1 out of every 8 college women will be raped
In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.

Prosecution of rape still has a long ways to go, too, a fact which we see on TV and in movies, but many believe is no longer the case:

Quote:
Try to imagine a legal system in which robberies of retail stores are treated seriously, but robberies of homes are not considered "real" crimes. Try to imagine a legal system predicated on the notion that robbery victims are likely to lie about whether the crime really occurred, or that renders the financial history of a robbery victim a central issue at trial. This is a fictional world for the victims of robbery. For the survivors of rape and family violence, it is all too real -- it is the criminal justice system of the United States.

"[S]ome States have eliminated entire classes of persons from the scope of rape statutes, or increased burdens on entire classes of people," like women raped by their husbands or children raped by their parents. "Women assaulted by sexual means are routinely subject to legal hurdles other victims never face," including requirements, in some cases, of psychiatric exams, polygraph tests, and special cautionary instructions to the jury.

These barriers of law, however, pale before the barriers of prejudice faced by women who are raped. Prejudice takes many practical forms in a rape prosecution -- policemen refuse to take a report; prosecutors encourage defendants to plead to minor offenses; judges rule against victims in evidentiary matters; and juries, despite instructions to the contrary, continue to lay the blame on the survivor. At every step of the way, the criminal justice system poses significant hurdles for rape survivors.

Ours is a system which responds to victims of rape with suspicion rather than compassion. the detours on the road to a rape conviction are far greater than the detours on the road to a conviction for other violent crimes.

- More than half of those arrested for rape will not be convicted, making it 30% more likely that a robber is convicted than a rapist;

- More than half of those arrested for rape will not be convicted, making it 30% more likely that a robber is convicted than a rapist;

- Almost one quarter of convicted rapists never go to prison, almost another quarter receive sentences to local jails housing minor offenders. This means that almost half of all convicted rapists can expect to receive a sentence of less than a year.

I don’t need to give you quotes about what a woman has to go through to get a rape conviction; you’ve seen it all depicted in movies and on TV.

I hope that answers your question and maybe opens your eyes a bit. It’s a very important question in my mind, given many think like you: that we’ve achieved parity, so what more do we want?

We're still a long ways from actual equality.

(And good for you, for not taking the bait. You've matured of late, I'm not the only one who's noticed it, I'm sure. I see somewhat less retreat into fantasy and somewhat more willingness to engage in real debate. Kudos.)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, August 16, 2010 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I wasn't talking to you Kwick. You are fully allowed to have your own opinions, but we are trying to have an actual discourse on an interesting subject here.

I understand your desire to threadjack, muck up and generally pick at anything some here say, but really... maybe you can do it another time?

Also, if you are able, please stop following me around from thread to thread... I appreciate the flattery in what you do, but Im really just not interested in bantering with you.

Im sure Kane, or someone else would be more willing to play with you... but as for me, you've just kind of gotten boring.

No offense really, and Im sure youll have ALL sorts of things to say to this post... but Ill leave it at that.

You're boring, you have no intention of expanding your thought and Im a little bit tired of trying with you.

So... have fun trying to bother someone else. K?

So you're admitting that you've got nothing. I get it.

You like to accuse others of being cowards, yet you won't stand by your own words or fight for your beliefs (or your country). I get that. Thanks for showing us all just how big a coward you really are.

Oh, and the "quit following me from post to post" thing? That's VEERRRY First Amendment of you, isn't it? Am I not allowed to post here now, because you want to? Only you are allowed to stumble into a post and shit all over it?

Sorry, you don't make the rules here.

I'll point out your hypocrisy and your cowardice any time I choose. You really do make it easy.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 8:12 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

1. "Equal opportunities."

Name where oppurtunities are not equal.

2. "More women in power, CEOs, politicians, legislators."

3 names. Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin

4. "Less sexist attitudes, portrayals, language that demeans women"

This is a want, not a need. Also, those portraying these sexist attitutdes are women. Their choice.

5. "No victimization of women."

I agree. I think hurting a womaen is abhorant. Tantamount to hurting a child. But shit happens, and life sucks.

Want and need, but as to it happening? Got to destroy all evil before it does.

6. "Fairness in prosecution of rape."

K. Rape is taken very seriously in most courtrooms. Then there are people like the Duke accuser.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 9:38 AM

I guess Wulfie is wishing he had an "ignore" feature now, since he doesn't want his thinking expanded, or his sacred cows butchered...

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Monday, August 16, 2010 9:56 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Again Kwick, not talking to you.

I appreciate your flattery in having to espouse your hate towards my posts... but really, dude.

Trying to have a conco here, little one.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 10:15 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Obviously you didn't read a word I posted, much less the quotes backing them up, or else you are deliberately choosing to ignore them.

Equal opportunities: I posted a quote specifically about the fact that women with expensive, four-year degrees make no more than me with only a high-school education. That's equal opportunity?

More women in power: Citing three names means nothing.

Quote:
Look around your workplace, and calculate the percentage of women. Now look at top management. How many of those corner offices are occupied by women? For the vast majority of U.S. workplaces, the answer is, 20% or less, even though women make up 48% of the total workforce.

Women occupy around 20% of leadership positions in business, journalism, politics and law firms. The rate is much lower in Fortune 500 firms and higher in non-profits (where salaries are typically low). And it’s been that way for years.

The U.S. ranks 71st in the world for women’s political representation (even Sudan and North Korea surpass us). Women actually lost ground last year in the nation’s largest corporations.

http://www.businessweek.com/careers/workingparents/blog/archives/2008/
10/women_in_leadership_the_20_rule.html

That's equality of women in power?

Less sexist attitudes: "those portraying these sexist attitutdes are women". That's so far from the mark it's pathetic. MEN make the sexist remarks; it's almost always MEN who decide to use a sexy woman for advertising, and on and on. Your point is completely false.

Victimization of women: "shit happens, and life sucks"??!!--did you read NOTHING of what I posted regarding the UNEQUALITY of women being victimized as opposed to men?? Remember, feminism is about equal rights...shouldn't women have equal rights not to be victimized?

Fairness in prosecution of rape: Yet again, you're totally ignoring the facts presented, which show how extremely difficult it is to prosecute rape and how few rapists are prosecuted, much less found guilty.

There. I underlined the salient points for you. I find it very strange that you are either deliberately choosing to ignore the facts presented or else didn't even bother to read them. I made my points and backed up every single one with factual, valid information. Why do you choose to ignore that, and respond with either dismissal or factual untruths?

Your question was what else do we need to achieve equality, remember? I ANSWERED THAT, clearly and succinctly. I shouldn't have to repeat myself.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, August 16, 2010 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Obviously you didn't read a word I posted, much less the quotes backing them up, or else you are deliberately choosing to ignore them.

Equal opportunities: I posted a quote specifically about the fact that women with expensive, four-year degrees make no more than me with only a high-school education. That's equal opportunity?

More women in power: Citing three names means nothing.
Quote:
Look around your workplace, and calculate the percentage of women. Now look at top management. How many of those corner offices are occupied by women? For the vast majority of U.S. workplaces, the answer is, 20% or less, even though women make up 48% of the total workforce.

Women occupy around 20% of leadership positions in business, journalism, politics and law firms. The rate is much lower in Fortune 500 firms and higher in non-profits (where salaries are typically low). And it’s been that way for years.

The U.S. ranks 71st in the world for women’s political representation (even Sudan and North Korea surpass us). Women actually lost ground last year in the nation’s largest corporations.
http://www.businessweek.com/careers/workingparents/blog/archives/2008/
10/women_in_leadership_the_20_rule.html

That's equality of women in power?

Less sexist attitudes: "those portraying these sexist attitutdes are women". That's so far from the mark it's pathetic. MEN make the sexist remarks; it's almost always MEN who decide to use a sexy woman for advertising, and on and on. Your point is completely false.

Victimization of women: "shit happens, and life sucks"??!!--did you read NOTHING of what I posted regarding the UNEQUALITY of women being victimized as opposed to men?? Remember, feminism is about equal rights...shouldn't women have equal rights not to be victimized?

Fairness in prosecution of rape: Yet again, you're totally ignoring the facts presented, which show how extremely difficult it is to prosecute rape and how few rapists are prosecuted, much less found guilty.

There. I underlined the salient points for you. I find it very strange that you are either deliberately choosing to ignore the facts presented or else didn't even bother to read them. I made my points and backed up every single one with factual, valid information. Why do you choose to ignore that, and respond with either dismissal or factual untruths?

Your question was what else do we need to achieve equality, remember? I ANSWERED THAT, clearly and succinctly. I shouldn't have to repeat myself.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

Again I hate to admit it but nikiwhore is right...you did not read her post..I would say bullshit. depends on the industry and what women CHOOSE to do. They have unconstitutional rights that give them an advantage against men and minoritys(-1 for spelling), however that can be debated at a different time. I love that my other works now I can sit here and tell you all to fuck your selves...

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Monday, August 16, 2010 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Obviously you didn't read a word I posted, much less the quotes backing them up, or else you are deliberately choosing to ignore them.

Equal opportunities: I posted a quote specifically about the fact that women with expensive, four-year degrees make no more than me with only a high-school education. That's equal opportunity?

More women in power: Citing three names means nothing.
Quote:
Look around your workplace, and calculate the percentage of women. Now look at top management. How many of those corner offices are occupied by women? For the vast majority of U.S. workplaces, the answer is, 20% or less, even though women make up 48% of the total workforce.

Women occupy around 20% of leadership positions in business, journalism, politics and law firms. The rate is much lower in Fortune 500 firms and higher in non-profits (where salaries are typically low). And it’s been that way for years.

The U.S. ranks 71st in the world for women’s political representation (even Sudan and North Korea surpass us). Women actually lost ground last year in the nation’s largest corporations.
http://www.businessweek.com/careers/workingparents/blog/archives/2008/
10/women_in_leadership_the_20_rule.html

That's equality of women in power?

Less sexist attitudes: "those portraying these sexist attitutdes are women". That's so far from the mark it's pathetic. MEN make the sexist remarks; it's almost always MEN who decide to use a sexy woman for advertising, and on and on. Your point is completely false.

Victimization of women: "shit happens, and life sucks"??!!--did you read NOTHING of what I posted regarding the UNEQUALITY of women being victimized as opposed to men?? Remember, feminism is about equal rights...shouldn't women have equal rights not to be victimized?

Fairness in prosecution of rape: Yet again, you're totally ignoring the facts presented, which show how extremely difficult it is to prosecute rape and how few rapists are prosecuted, much less found guilty.

There. I underlined the salient points for you. I find it very strange that you are either deliberately choosing to ignore the facts presented or else didn't even bother to read them. I made my points and backed up every single one with factual, valid information. Why do you choose to ignore that, and respond with either dismissal or factual untruths?

Your question was what else do we need to achieve equality, remember? I ANSWERED THAT, clearly and succinctly. I shouldn't have to repeat myself.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, August 16, 2010 10:34 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I think shes mad that I was able to disprove her theories so easily.

And to the whole "Its men that make women look bad!" argument...

Paris Hilton

Tila Tequila

Jlo

Kei$ha

Unless, Nix, you are saying that these women have no minds of their own and are just automatons programmed to do the slutty will of whatever male overlord controls them?

Personally, I think they still have a choice to be nasty sluts that give all women a bad name.... and do it anyways for the money..

But hey.

Im sure its all dadd... er, guys fault.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 10:49 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm not mad, Wulf, I'm frustrated at your returning so quickly to your habit of ignoring people's reasonable responses, the facts they present and logical responses to your points, and instead continuing to repeat the same claims and denegrate and/or dismiss the person.

Was nice for a while there, but you're back to form.

You didn't "disprove" a single one of my points, which were not "theories" in the least, you merely ignored them.

I will merely say that women who try for an acting or modeling career would get absolutely nowhere if they did not primp to society's standards and you know it. If you look again at the photographs I put up, and honestly say that those women would have been cast in a movie or hired as a model if they looked like THAT, you are lying through your teeth.

What a shame you couldn't hang onto civility and reason for longer than one post.

As a final point that proves me right; the word "slut" has no corresponding male equivalent which is used so freely by people such as you and your "friends" here. Not to mention that if you were any kind of real man, you wouldn't consider people who sling around "cunt", "whore", "slut" and the like so easily as friends in the first place; what they are would be as obvious to you as to the rest of us. They're using you, nothing more.

Have fun.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, August 16, 2010 10:54 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"I will merely say that women who try for an acting or modeling career would get absolutely nowhere if they did not primp to society's standards..."

Ugly Betty.

And do you really think that guys don't have to conform to some standard of "beauty"?

Really? Brad Pitt would be as huge a movie star if he looked like an average guy? Or like Kwick? (hehehehe)

Noooooo..... so its not just women who have to be better than good...

ETA: Most people dont watch T.V. or movies to see the same normal people around them.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 11:35 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Oh and lets talk about the hyper sexualization of women... thanks again hippies.

http://gawker.com/5482004/this-is-what-getting-your-vagina-vajazzled-l
ooks-like

Eta: and its most popular in NY, the bastion of liberals... awesome. How....just...perfect.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 2:06 PM

Wow. You REALLY just don't like letting anyone be responsible for themselves, do you?

Why must you always look for someone to "blame" for every single thing you disagree with?

Seriously, you blame "hippies" for women putting rhinestones on their poon? Heck, why not blame it on socialism? It'd make about as much sense. Or blame the tea-baggers for making that such a big thing now. ;)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Monday, August 16, 2010 5:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

This is still goin on ?

Sheeit, come on, we ALL know, that within any movement for equal rights of any kind there will be those who want equality, and those using it as a front for revenge - that's ALWAYS gonna happen.

And I for one, have an issue with folks going narrow focus, whether it be sex, race or what have you, if yer gonna fight for human rights, fight for HUMAN rights, for ALL humans... to do otherwise is just changing the flavor of oppression, but given that factually, women ARE still given short-shrift in our society, minorities ARE still given a bunch of shit right up front, hell if imma flame them for wanting a fair share - but I will point out that human rights oughta be a broader front, oh yes.

The Ex-Fremgirl used to work in the auto industry, a more racist, sexist, hidebound bunch of dinosaurs you'd have trouble finding in america, and despite a four year degree and being in charge of the warehouse and procurement/logistics chain, doin shit she can't even EXPLAIN to me cause what I know about Corporate Procurement and Economics wouldn't fill a thimble, was being paid less than the goddamn janitor, and when she became aware of this and took issue with management, the guy in question - who, mind you was a complete incompetent who had to call her for the slightest goddamn thing to where I was sore tempted to ask him if he needed her to hold it for him when he pissed - gave her this rather inexcusable "get back in the kitchen" speech in front of several witnesses, which resulted in her signing on with another company at a better rate...

The real irony of this was that with said company she was in charge of selecting which bidder to accept on a certain contract worth around seven figures, one of them the former company - and so she was well aware they were going to have problems living up to their obligations since dealing with that and the resultant flak was part of her former job...

But the real rum-dinger was when the bidders sent in their representatives to plead their case, and the one from her former company was the SAME BASTARD who gave her that speech... who took one look and ran like a bitch, needless to say his company didn't get the contract, and thanks in part to him totally fucking up the job she left when it was dumped on him, went bankrupt and imploded shortly thereafter.
(Helpful Hint: Don't piss that woman off, she can hurt you in ways you can't possibly even imagine.)

The auto industry really lost a rising star when they chased that girl off, she's DAMN good at what she does - and even with the new folks she works for (who make all those pretty LCDs in your Blackberries and Cellphones and PDAs) they're STILL sexist towards her, although more hostile cause she's a Gajin than because she's a chick.

So yeah, hell yes sexism is still rampant in corporate america, and for that reason I am not going to give "feminism" too much shit - any more than I would give the JFPO too much shit for concentrating on ONE right out of many, instead of them all - at least they're willing to fight for one, neh ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 1:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

Why are Feminists Surprised Their Daughters are Sluts?
http://www.henrymakow.com/why_are_feminists_surprised_da.html

"You can't put a price on good pussy."
-Pam, Archer, The Rock

Is it just me or is there something strangely hot about the girl in the middle of the middle pic..the one with no tits.....is that Kwicko?

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hypersexualization? It wouldn't have anything to do with the titty-billboards advertising "gentlemen's clubs" on the fwy, hot chicks humping oversized credit cards on TV, or the MSM aiming its lowest-common-denominator-advertising to the stupidest demographic (white males age 19-45) in the world, would it?

Nah.....

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hypersexualization? It wouldn't have anything to do with the titty-billboards advertising "gentlemen's clubs" on the fwy, hot chicks humping oversized credit cards on TV, or the MSM aiming its lowest-common-denominator-advertising to the stupidest demographic (white males age 19-45) in the world, would it?

Nah.....

You need to get laid....

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Tuesday, August 17, 2010 3:29 AM