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From the beginning, though, I pointed out that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf was no great bargain and that his Cordoba Initiative was full of euphemisms about Islamic jihad and Islamic theocracy. I mentioned his sinister belief that the United States was partially responsible for the assault on the World Trade Center and his refusal to take a position on the racist Hamas dictatorship in Gaza. The more one reads through his statements, the more alarming it gets.

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As for the gorgeous mosaic of religious pluralism, it's easy enough to find mosque Web sites and DVDs that peddle the most disgusting attacks on Jews, Hindus, Christians, unbelievers, and other Muslims—to say nothing of insane diatribes about women and homosexuals. This is why the fake term Islamophobia is so dangerous: It insinuates that any reservations about Islam must ipso facto be "phobic." A phobia is an irrational fear or dislike. Islamic preaching very often manifests precisely this feature, which is why suspicion of it is by no means irrational.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
So has Islam...did you read the material put up on the historical shift from religious rule to secular? It's been there for a loooong time, is nothing new and refutes your inference that Islam hasn't accommodated secularism.

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NAIROBI -- Behind the blue gates of his Islamic school in Nairobi's Eastleigh neighborhood, Ahmed Awil cannot escape his country's civil war.

Schools and mosques where extremist views are taught are reshaping this Somali immigrant community that for years has lived peacefully in the capital of this predominantly Christian country. Moderate imams now compete with hard-line preachers pushing a strict interpretation of Islam. Bookstores sell anti-Western literature. Residents speak fearfully of militant spies, and children like Ahmed are taught to praise al-Shabab, an al-Qaeda-linked militia, for waging jihad in Somalia against the U.S.-backed government.

"My teachers tell us al-Shabab is fighting for our religion and for our country," said Ahmed, a skinny 11-year-old who fled Somalia after al-Shabab fighters slaughtered his neighbor and tried to recruit him. "Sometimes they ask us if we would like to go there and fight."

Eastleigh, a run-down enclave where tens of thousands of Somalis live, has become an incubator for Islamic extremism, Kenyan officials and community leaders say. It has also emerged as a micro-battlefield in the war on terrorism, attracting American funds.

"What most worries me is that this extremist ideology will continue to grow," said Dualle Abdi Malik, the director of Fathu Rahman, a moderate Islamic school. "We have to confront it before it is too late."

Somali immigrant communities across the Horn of Africa and Yemen have come under greater scrutiny since twin bombings last month targeted World Cup soccer fans in the Ugandan capital of Kampala. Al-Shabab asserted responsibility for the attacks, its first major international operation since it rose to power several years ago in Somalia.

Members of al-Shabab, which in Arabic means "The Youth," and other Somali militants freely travel to Nairobi to raise funds, recruit and treat wounded fighters, according to U.N. and Kenyan security officials. Somali-American jihadists have met contacts in Eastleigh before heading to Somalia to fight with al-Shabab.

"Eastleigh is a copy of Mogadishu," said Mohamed Omar Dalha, Somalia's social affairs minister, referring to the Somali capital. "Everything that happens in Mogadishu happens in Eastleigh, except the fighting."

Fertile ground for radicals

At the al-Huda Islamic bookshop, a closet-sized stall nestled near one of Eastleigh's radical mosques, several youths browsed the fare on a recent day. Koranic tomes pack the shelves. Recordings of lectures and debates that glorify the neighborhood's radical Somali preachers are sold openly.

"Our religion calls on us to kill everyone who does not believe in Allah and his Prophet Muhammed deeply," Abdulrahman Abdullahi, a black-clad imam, declares in one DVD.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Yet there has been a pretty good expansion of Sharia law in Asia and Africa."

Hello,

I am more concerned with the influence of Christian law and principles on our country currently.

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Originally posted by Niki2:

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Christianity and Judaism have at least had to accommodate (or gasp...tolerate) secularism for some time.

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So has Islam...did you read the material put up on the historical shift from religious rule to secular? It's been there for a loooong time, is nothing new and refutes your inference that Islam hasn't accommodated secularism.

I find considerable difference between islamophobia, anti-islam, and people who disagree with the COMMUNITY CENTER for reasons of supposed "sensitivity", etc. I don't like the word, but I don't think every disagreement with Islam comes down to Islamophobia.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Yet there has been a pretty good expansion of Sharia law in Asia and Africa."

Hello,

I am more concerned with the influence of Christian law and principles on our country currently.

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I have never agreed with you before, and I may never agree with you again, but I agree with you now. It sort of tickles.

I have no desire to live under Sharia law; I'd rather not be subject to Leviticus, either, or even the Code of Hammurabi. But practically, right wing Christian zealots are a more immediate threat to my delicate sensibilities than Sharia. See generally abortion, stem cell research, gay marriage.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Yet there has been a pretty good expansion of Sharia law in Asia and Africa."

Hello,

I am more concerned with the influence of Christian law and principles on our country currently. In my opinion, rights of homosexual persons have been retarded in this country largely due to sentiments borrowed from religion, and that religion is not the Muslim faith.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Somehow, "Our religion calls on us to kill everyone who does not believe in Allah and his Prophet Muhammed deeply," doesn't jibe with "religion of peace". I realize that not all Muslims feel this way, certainly not anywhere near a majority, but there's a pretty good number who do - and are willing to carry out those killings of the unbelievers. This is pretty obvious in the number of bombings by radical Muslims of civilian targets throughout Asia and Africa.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Although there are plenty enough Christians who believe the same crap, and want to stick pretty closely to a lot of the garbage in the Old Testament, none of which jibes with Christianity as any kind of "peaceful" religion. I realize that not all Christians feel this way, but there's a pretty good number who do - and are willing to kill the unbelievers. This is pretty obvious in the number of bombing of abortion clinics and the murders of doctors who perform legal abortions and the murders of gays like Matthew Shepard.

Shall we put a moratorium on building any new churches in the U.S.?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Although there are plenty enough Christians who believe the same crap, and want to stick pretty closely to a lot of the garbage in the Old Testament, none of which jibes with Christianity as any kind of "peaceful" religion. I realize that not all Christians feel this way, but there's a pretty good number who do - and are willing to kill the unbelievers. This is pretty obvious in the number of bombing of abortion clinics and the murders of doctors who perform legal abortions and the murders of gays like Matthew Shepard.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
When's the last time any fundie Christians stoned a young couple to death, for the unpardonable sin of eloping ? Or sought to sever the spinal cord of a man, in the name of " an eye for an eye " justice ?

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This is why the fake term Islamophobia is so dangerous: It insinuates that any reservations about Islam must ipso facto be "phobic." A phobia is an irrational fear or dislike. Islamic preaching very often manifests precisely this feature, which is why suspicion of it is by no means irrational.

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From the beginning, though, I pointed out that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf was no great bargain and that his Cordoba Initiative was full of euphemisms about Islamic jihad and Islamic theocracy. I mentioned his sinister belief that the United States was partially responsible for the assault on the World Trade Center and his refusal to take a position on the racist Hamas dictatorship in Gaza. The more one reads through his statements, the more alarming it gets.

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Originally posted by kpo:
I find the horror (I'm thinking more of 'raptor's video in the other thread) at Rauf's pretty standard (and tame) international-Muslim-worldview a little strange... The only Muslims who have a rosy/friendly view of America are American Muslims (mainly just because they have first-hand experience of America). To foreign Muslims America is the bad guy, the great Satan, the oppressor of Muslims everywhere. Perhaps you're liked a little better than Israel. A majority of British Muslims poll as believing 9-11 was not perpetrated by muslims; more moderate ones will have a Fahrenheit 911-type view.

I hate it, but that's the way it is, around the world. How do you correct it? I don't know, but you can't build bridges with people only on your side of the river. People like Rauf are part of the solution, even if they are to some extent a perpetuation of the problem.

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