Anyone Care? by Riverlove

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

About?

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:51 AM

Yes?

Generally I care about lots of things, and your blank text here has me concerned enough that I'm pulling out of my angry self-enforced silence that I started yesterday.

What's up?

EDIT: Ah. Yes, it does concern me. I'd heard about the rapes, hadn't looked into them in any detail.

Mostly I remember something that DT told me about Africa and the failed states around there, and even about South Africa. He said that to gain power, Nelson Mandela made deals with some very violent gangs of "rebels" (I seem to recall lots of them were communist), and that something the outside world doesn't hear much about is that 1/3 of all girls in South Africa have been raped by the time they were out of school (and I don't even know how long their school period lasts there).

Apparently, there's lots of these kinds of gangs in Africa. My supposition was that it was food and resource shortage and competition.

EDIT 2: Reading the article, it's a kind of, with the gangs in question out for resources and conflict minerals like I thought. So long as we continue to not care who's selling those minerals or what they've done, only about whether the supply keeps coming, no one is going to do anything about it except ever so helpful fits of outrage, quickly forgotten.

It occurs to me to wonder if the computer I'm using at work has any of these minerals in it's components.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:52 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yes, it is. It's also easy to see why Americans aren't paying attention; they pay attention to what they hear on the news, and the news is obsessed with other things at the moment, and rarely covers these things much anyway.

I wish it were otherwise. If passions could be inflamed about this, and other atrocities, it would be a fine thing, but if it's outside our borders, doesn't affect Americans personally, and not highlighted on the news, Americans don't pay much attention. Very sadly.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:09 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

The situation is disgustingly bad, but I feel a deep sense of powerlessness about it. I have no idea how to improve the situation without taking over the country. (And that is a solution I do not intend to pursue.)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:16 AM

My further thoughts are ones of revenge and bloodthirst against the perpetrators. I might not believe in war, and I might take a relativist perspective, but there's people who exploit and abuse other people that I'd really like nothing more than to see them get their own comeuppance. I do believe in justice.

I'd like to see their former victims rise up against them and the punishment their victims would deal out then. Sounds like this FDLR group isn't even bothering to hide behind a racial excuse anymore, bet they've even hit people of their own ethnic group. Bet everyone hates them, and would turn on them in a second given half an opportunity. Just need to knock out whatever official support they have that's protecting them and they'd be done for. That's my assessment.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 8:39 AM

RIVERLOVE

HBO did an excellent documentary of this last year. In their documentary it was revealed that the brutal gang rapes are almost the "least worst" part of what happens there. I don't want to get graphic, let's just say it concerns genital mutilation and similar unimaginable things.

I find these "reminders" in the news very painful, but I admit I have no easy solution. Almost seems like the big powers of the world ought to deploy some additional troops to assist the UN guys, but I doubt Americans would support it. I would though whole-heartedly.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:01 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Putting troops in there would be a hard sell for me. I mean, you can't just put troops there and have them hang around. They'd actually have to depose the current government, set up a new infrastructure, organize elections and a new government. Provide security during and after the transition. Sound familiar?

And of course you'd have a slew of corporations from the West diving in to take advantage of the situation as always. Before the first president is elected in the region, we'd have a plethora of contracts and promises in place that sell out the brand new country to Western interests.

If we back a local revolutionary group to overthrow the warlords and destroy the gangs, he'd probably be so twisted by damage and hate that he'd become as bad a dictator as those he railed against. Madame Guillotene kisses the deserving and undeserving alike, and can enforce the whimsy of dictators as surely as she lays them low.

Aid sent to the region to help the people climb out of poverty would probably be coopted by the villains there to control the people. Never mind that free food, clothing, and other products could actually savage the nearly dead local economies.

It's just bad all the way around, and thanks to the senseless present wars, we no longer have the resources to indulge in humanitarian conflicts.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:28 AM

RIVERLOVE

We go on and on here about sensitivity, civility, human rights, etc. etc. Left, right, back and forth. On one issue that everyone can agree on, it's sad and tragic that we can't do anything about it.

What if the UN just "deputized" a few thousand mercenary types to go in there and wipe out the rape gangs? Or help get the women out of there to some safe haven for God's sake. Anything, and I wouldn't care if most of it was illegal or not. All of humanity's self-annointed platitudes are rendered meaningless if collectively the good of this world can't stop these atrocities against these women and girls.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:44 AM

Quote:
If we back a local revolutionary group to overthrow the warlords and destroy the gangs, he'd probably be so twisted by damage and hate that he'd become as bad a dictator as those he railed against. Madame Guillotene kisses the deserving and undeserving alike, and can enforce the whimsy of dictators as surely as she lays them low.

And therein lies the problem with my ideal plans.

See, shippin em guns wouldn't accomplish nothin, they wouldn't use em, and even if they would they lack the skill and organization to be effective, and if you somehow managed to provide THAT, you'd wind up with the same problem as the NFA over in Afghanistan, meet the new boss, kinda-same as the old boss...

But this shit is WHY the UN was founded, seriously, find a faction (or hell, cynical though it is, create one) and then acknowledge their appeal and send in the fucking peacekeepers to hold off the thugs while they start unfucking and rebuilding - only do it with an ROE brutal enough to hold the line.

You shoot at the protectees, we kill you.
You damage infrastructure, we kill you.
You burn farms, we kill you.
See a running theme here ?

Of course, this would require a very large amount of initial support, and a substantial body of troops - and folks seem reluctant to provide those without some return on investment.

It would also REQUIRE keeping the WTO and IMF out of there, with violence if necessary cause their company store tricks and corporate exploitation were and very much are, contributing factors to the economic collapses which create fiascos like this.

Which leads to problem number two, and this is the big one - between the racial, tribal, cultural issues, and the willingness of the population to destroy themselves rather than even tolerate the existence of other factions...

This may sound cruel, but I am not inclined to help them, not when everything built is constantly at risk of being destroyed by folks who would do so simply because it's not under their control, the same fools who burn out farmers over these disputes and then, having no food, pilfer it from their own people, and then ask for sympathy that their people are starving.

Sure, a lot of em are innocent and it sucks, but when damn near every force on the ground will attack and destroy any resource not directly under their control without a single freaking thought to the end result of this will be a wasteland of corpses, my own beliefs require that I do not interfere with the natural destiny they have chosen for themselves.

If they can not learn to co-exist with other human beings, are utterly determined not to do so, or ever learn to do so - what's the bloody POINT of trying to assist any of those factions ?

Now, if you had a solid, legit faction that wanted ALL of *those* asshats dead, I'd say back it to the hilt, but as it stands, there doesn't seem to be, because even a lot of the "victims" mentioned here hold the same rabid hatred in their hearts.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:57 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Anyone care? Everyone cares! Just like everyone cared about the Rwanda genocide in the 90's. We care when it's in our face, and when it's not we move on to life's other challenges. I saw somewhere that our brain's amygdala allows us to do that, otherwise we'd all be in straight jackets.

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Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:29 PM

Actually, this and other recent posts have inspired me to offer a suggestion which may solve quite a few problems at a stroke - although the southwestern coast of Somalia would be better for this one.

First, encourage a christian aid mission (read: missionary effort) to go down there, make sure to pick one of the nastier ones like AoG, which'll do shit like withhold aid from those who refuse to convert, and act abusively toward the populace, they're trying to "save". (pun intended!)

Then, show this crap to some militant islam fanatics and encourage them to go shoot those fuckers...

Who will, then, predictably, call for aid from their own militant fanatics...

And before you know it, you have ever shitheel on the planet willing to pick up a weapon and kill out of religious intolerance down there.

At which point you seed the place with fuel aerosol cannisters on spin-fuse distribution to achieve maximum saturation, and then slam fifty megatons of thermonuclear hell on top of it.

Cheap at the price, and the rest of us can get on with our lives sans the interferance of those assholes, who knows, maybe without them acting as a boat anchor to every bit of progress, we might finally evolve socially, mentally and emotionally past glorified angry apes.

-Frem

PS. Only half kidding here, if I thought it'd WORK, I'd be dead fucking serious.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:14 AM

Damn do I want something char-broiled right now.

Seriously though. I get that you're frustrated by these gangs in Africa, but how's it different from other conflicts where you want a peaceful resolution? Really, if someone's going to comment on any conflict, the angle they should be coming from it is wanting a peaceful resolution. I'm frustrated as hell by the Gaza-strip conflict, but you'll never hear me say "let's attract all the religious fucknuts there and nuke 'em all!"

No side is ever fully in the right or wrong. I could maybe make a good argument here with these rapists, except I know, I just KNOW that most of the mooks in the FDLR were kidnapped from their real parents probably before they were even ten and brought up in shit and violence their whole lives, twisted for the purposes of the greedy goddamn warlords in charge of the operation.

About the rapists, I'll only agree that when a dog goes rabid, sometimes there's only one thing you can do, no matter how cruel the dog's master might be.

Frem, you have a belief system that tells you that people making their own choices is something sacred for you to honour, to the point you feel a conflict with your own beliefs if you try to intervene to prevent someone dying from their own choices. But the only difference between these people, and the people you did save, is you'll never get the chance to ask them their names.

Making light of the situation, taking it out on the victims and aggressors equally... I know I have no right to lecture you, and you're going to shove a tire iron down my throat for this, but "What the hell, hero?"

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:29 AM

We can care, we can continue to throw millions at Africa, we can send in peace keepers, or we can take the Kaneman approach and realize that the blacks have not evolved enough to have a just society. No where in the world have they created a just culture and they never will. I believe in evolution, I believe we all came out of Africa, I believe that other peoples had to evolve different cultural methods and ways of thinking because of environmental differences. Why this basic premise escapes many here who claim to be experts on Darwinism amazes me. Whites and Asians had to think ahead and shun the notion of instant gratification, they couldn't stand and wait at a watering hole to get food they had to plan ahead for things like winter etc..this changed our wiring which allowed for just culture. Blacks to this day can not pass on instant gratification and are barbaric because of it. That is why in every country they are in they commit most crimes(per cap.). This is true in Europe, North America and elsewhere.

You can take it as racist, however I don't believe facts can be racist. And never apologize for Science. If you disagree....Show me one Black nation on earth that has evolved beyond barbarism without outside influence.....And remember they had a head start.

From the pen of an honest blackman

http://www.kenyanentrepreneur.com/african-povert

From a noble prize winner in genetics

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2677098.ece

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:48 AM

That's less so much a fact than it is archeological/scientific theory.

Facts are like this: chimpanzees, our closest relative, also use spears for hunting, so humanoids may have used spears since at least that divergence, and the first human spears were found around 400,000 BCE, right around the time when homo erectus and homo sapiens diverged. Humanoid species since Australopithicus have all been predominantly bipedal, with slightly elongated leg-bones versus arm bones, compared to the sometimes bipedal tree-dweller posture with longer arms than legs. Around the time of Homo erectus, humanoid species began to select for individuals with decreased body fur.

So ANOTHER theory is that homo erectus lost most of it's body fur to make us more suitable for an endurance run. The idea is we chased down faster species, tracking them for multiple days until they fell over from exhaustion and heat stroke.

Such an adaptation might explain why modern humans perform better in marathon situations than other animals, and also suggests that even in Africa, before migration, humans had to develop some degree of forethought, gratification delay, and planning. Maybe it's not as much as the migration waves from Africa had to develop when they encountered winter conditions (which is... possible, I guess, but I think would be very difficult to measure, and I'm wondering about the supportive evidence), but the rudiments are probably there. Even if you're right, and nature didn't develop these skills, only laid down a foundation, the argument that such skills are not teachable does not follow.

I also note that while James Watson's contributions to the understanding of the structure of DNA are essential to the modern field of molecular genetics, his career has had very little to do with mapping the human genome and understanding the function of individual genes. You'd be better putting up those links to those studies you've posted before specifically showing the delayed gratification differences, though with those studies I still remain skeptical that the differences aren't environmental.

Africa is kind of a hellhole of disease and drought, so I'm not overly surprised humans didn't start to go anywhere until they left (or at least settled around the Nile and the Arabian Peninsula).

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:48 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

Blacks to this day can not pass on instant gratification and are barbaric because of it.

You can take it as racist...

OK, I will. I'm surprised you'd write something like that. I guess you don't know or work with too many African-Americans.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:56 AM

CHRISISALL

Send in troops and execute all adult males that cannot produce at least one female to approve of their continued existence.

The rash Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If the U.N. is involved, then rapes will likely go up.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:46 AM

I note for the record that the Democratic Republic of the Congo is a Christian nation.

Odd that nobody here seems to have a problem with the religion of the folks involved in doing really fucked-up things, UNLESS they happen to be Muslims.

I'd also note for the record that certain other Christian nations in Africa have passed laws that call for the hanging of homosexuals. These people have been helped along by prominent Republican members of Congress here in the U.S.

Not all monsters are Muslim; plenty of them are Christians. And sometimes when they talk about "praying", they spell it with an "e".

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

If the U.N. is involved, then rapes will likely go up.

You misspelled "Catholic Church".

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 8:06 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Mike,

You mustn't say these things. It confuses people who either overly compartmentalize or who can't compartmentalize at all.

For instance, let us assume there is an individual who believes that Christians are basically harmless, and Muslims are basically dangerous.

If you say, "Yes, there is Muslim extremism and abuses, but there is also Christian extremism and abuses," their brain starts to enter a strange 60's Television Trope Computer Logic Loop.

It goes like this:

<>

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

CHRISTIANS ARE HARMLESS!

YOU SAY CHRISTIANS = MUSLIMS!

YOU ARE SAYING THAT MUSLIMS ARE HARMLESS!

BUT I KNOW MUSLIMS ARE DANGEROUS!

ERROR! ERROR!

YOU ARE SAYING THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MUSLIM EXTREMISM!

<< EMERGENCY LOGIC RESET >>

"You, sir, are a liar. Muslim Extremists do exist, despite your assertions. Also, there is no comparison between Muslims and Christians."

It's actually a mixture of humor and sadness to watch this happen.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:48 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Not all monsters are Muslim...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:01 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, Anthony, most wonderful! And we get to watch it, right here before our eyes, too! Wow.

Long Live The Great And Merciful Zilla!

On a more serious note, I'm not going to go through it all over again unless I have to, but the last time someone said something about Blacks never having had a civilization, I dug up all the history that showed they were there BEFORE us, in every single thing, prior to the industrial revolution.

Whether the industrial revolution was a good thing or not is up to one's opinion...given the pollution, war, and everything else which has followed, I think you can guess mine.

But it sickens me that the same damned argument is being used again, when it has FACTUALLY been proven false. Mike, old buddy, if you can find that thread, gawd I'd be grateful. That was I only need copy and paste, since it was long enough ago that I have no idea how I found it all.

The fact remains that Black people Muslims and others, were ahead of "Whites" in science, art, literary, and so MANY other venues, that it is the height of absurdity to say such things.

So far, when it comes to the topic at hand, I don't like any of the suggestions, and I have no better one to offer. I guess for me it's a matter of our little species being capable of horrific things, and we're never going to be rid of that aspect until we evolve beyond it, which I doubt we ever will. It was a good experiment, and I don't know how to "fix" the world, I just know America hasn't done a very good job of it when she's tried...and often made things worse.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:00 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Niki,

I have an unproven, untested theory.

That areas of abundance tend to foster the things we consider 'civilization.' When that abundance fades, so does the sophistication of the region.

I also theorize that when people feel powerless, disenfranchised, or penniless, that's when Murder/Death/Kill, Terrorism, and Fucktardery spring up.

I think the decline of ancient African civilizations probably had something to do with either A) a change in the abundance of resources or B) a disinfranchised neighbor taking offense and doing some destruction.

The unifying trait between extremist muslims and christians and whoever might not be religion. It might be 'regions where people feel disinfranchised, powerless, or penniless, and can be unified in their fear and pain by a charismatic leader.'

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Frem, you have a belief system that tells you that people making their own choices is something sacred for you to honour, to the point you feel a conflict with your own beliefs if you try to intervene to prevent someone dying from their own choices. But the only difference between these people, and the people you did save, is you'll never get the chance to ask them their names.

Making light of the situation, taking it out on the victims and aggressors equally... I know I have no right to lecture you, and you're going to shove a tire iron down my throat for this, but "What the hell, hero?"

Oh you've every right to call me out on it, moreso than most because you know *exactly* the thought process in which I came to that conclusion, via which I am explicitly aware of what a horrific concept that even is, and not just from the moral standard of having to wince through where reality and personal values slam into each other with a bang, but also in the actual amount of death and destruction this would cause - a truely unforgivable atrocity of the worst possible order.

And still, again, if I thought it would WORK...
(which it won't, skimming the top never addresses the root cause, as Robespierre learned to his peril)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DirtyBusiness

I'd still do it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:10 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

VERY valid point, and one which I've tried to make before with regard to Islam and Afghanistan. When you lead a damned hard life--like harder than that of which any American can conceive, the "after life" provides the only escape, the only conceivable "better". That makes it far, far easier for those who supposedly tell you how to behave to reap the reward of that religion to control you. This definitely is an aspect of Islam when it comes to the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc.

It is a fact. It is not an excuse, it is a fact which, if we let it, can help us understand how people can be made to froth at the mouth about things which don't make sense to us. It doesn't mean we treat those people differently or cut them any more slack, merely that we UNDERSTAND.

For me, just as it helps me to understand that America is a huge, rich, powerful country, so if you disagree with it, if you feel like it's had its heel on your throat, if you feel powerless in the face of its power, a monster which, if you raise your voice against it, can kill you instantly, you do things it can't prevent, you fight the battle on your terms, not its. Kind of like our "forefathers" did to the British.

Which is also no excuse. I am never going to say there is ANY excuse for terrorism, because there is no excuse; there are REASONS, but they're usually not reasonABLE. But neither will I ever blind myself to any other humans humanity and view them as some kind of horned monster that sprang complete from Satan's loins, born with a hatred of me and everything I stand for. Simple as that. I abhor what they do, I would kill them if necessary, but I won't make monsters out of them.

ETA: Anthony, I THINK the degeneration of Africa had to do mostly with climate change, but certainly in some areas with conquest.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:13 PM

Also, why do you think I support RAWA despite a lotta teeth-gritting over the fact that they refuse to play as hardball as I would - cause I truly, in my heart BELIEVE, that their way is the better way, even though all my own instincts (which I *know* are biased) trend in the opposite direction ?

Oh, and Anthony, I have a lot to say on that thought-loop concept, but it's gonna have to wait, and really deserves it's own thread.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:14 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Frem, just for the record; I never addressed your "solution" because often you and I are on opposing sides of what we would do in a situation, and sometimes it would confuse me, given your stated principles, except for the fact that I know sometimes you would be willing to toss those principles aside and get down and dirty. It's a dichotomy that I don't understand, but I accept that in you and it doesn't make me like you any less.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:16 PM

Quote:

I think the decline of ancient African civilizations probably had something to do with either A) a change in the abundance of resources or B) a disinfranchised neighbor taking offense and doing some destruction.

The unifying trait between extremist muslims and christians and whoever might not be religion. It might be 'regions where people feel disinfranchised, powerless, or penniless, and can be unified in their fear and pain by a charismatic leader.'

Pretty much. I said something about Arabic Muslims in another thread and that they're "about 300 years behind the rest of the world, probably because agriculture in the region seems to have gone to hell." In retrospect as opposed to it really being a developmental thing, it might be that hard times supports dictators, monarchies, and theocracies, which have a tendency to preserve traditional codes of law and be harsh in their punishments.

Lots of war torn nations I can think of (particularly Iraq and Afghanistan) really are having problems with desertification from overgrazing, and drying up of wetland areas, the flooding of which keeps farm land in the region arable. And Iraq still has those areas that Sumeria managed badly, and have made alkaline wastes for thousands of years to come.

Turkey, and Iran are the only exceptions I can think of. I'd have to look more closely at them to determine why it is they're doing so well, but I suspect it's because they have farmland and some food supply. The Saudis might be doing okay too, and that's probably because they can afford to buy food because of their oil money. If they didn't have a theocratic royal family in power, they might be doing even better.

Realizing this, America is about due for an "ohshit ohshit" moment, because the water aquifer supplying our midwestern breadbasket is just about depleted. We'll be pretty much screwed I think at that point. Back to the dark ages for us.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:31 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"the water aquifer supplying our midwestern breadbasket is just about depleted. We'll be pretty much screwed I think at that point. Back to the dark ages for us."

Hello,

I'd have expected us to desalinate and filter the ocean water in such a case, though I can see water becoming suddenly more expensive. (No more free water anywhere.) Maybe folks would start pulling a Waterworld at their homes to conserve what they have.

(BTW, what a remarkably odd thing. Recycling waste water makes sense in a Desert World (aka Dune), but in an Ocean World? Why didn't Costner just desalinate the ocean water? He could easily make enough drinking water for his own use through relatively simple means.)

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I know sometimes you would be willing to toss those principles aside and get down and dirty. It's a dichotomy that I don't understand, but I accept that in you and it doesn't make me like you any less.

Then you are more forgiving than I - cause it damn sure makes ME like me even less, not that such would matter, but having to face up and answer for my own personal darkness in the mirror is what keeps it in check.

You can lie to everyone else about your reasons, your motivations, your intentions, but to yourself, not so much - and I *do* have a conscience besides the 86lb wonder, yanno...

Not that I'd often admit it, mind you.

-Frem
(Oh great, and now I catch it from her for malingering here at the computer AND mocking her...*sigh*)

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I note for the record that the Democratic Republic of the Congo is a Christian nation.

Odd that nobody here seems to have a problem with the religion of the folks involved in doing really fucked-up things, UNLESS they happen to be Muslims.

I'd also note for the record that certain other Christian nations in Africa have passed laws that call for the hanging of homosexuals. These people have been helped along by prominent Republican members of Congress here in the U.S.

Not all monsters are Muslim; plenty of them are Christians. And sometimes when they talk about "praying", they spell it with an "e".

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Fair enough, however they are all black and less evolved. I love science.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Oh, Anthony, most wonderful! And we get to watch it, right here before our eyes, too! Wow.

Long Live The Great And Merciful Zilla!

On a more serious note, I'm not going to go through it all over again unless I have to, but the last time someone said something about Blacks never having had a civilization, I dug up all the history that showed they were there BEFORE us, in every single thing, prior to the industrial revolution.

Whether the industrial revolution was a good thing or not is up to one's opinion...given the pollution, war, and everything else which has followed, I think you can guess mine.

But it sickens me that the same damned argument is being used again, when it has FACTUALLY been proven false. Mike, old buddy, if you can find that thread, gawd I'd be grateful. That was I only need copy and paste, since it was long enough ago that I have no idea how I found it all.

This one?

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=42992#774407

Look about 3/4 of the way down, and I think you'll find what you're looking for.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:04 PM

Anthony: You could do that, though how much arable farmland we retain after we've exhausted groundwater under the midwest is a big question on how fast we can switch over and get something like ocean desalinization going, especially considering not all of that farmland is in Texas, on the coasts. You'll need pipelines and infrastructure, lots of it.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Anthony: You could do that, though how much arable farmland we retain afterwe've exhausted groundwater under the midwest is a big question on how fast we can switch over and get something like ocean desalinization going, especially considering not all of that farmland is in Texas, on the coasts. You'll need pipelines and infrastructure, lots of it.

That you say this shit considering we have more fresh water and natural resources than any country on earth shows you are gay. do you realize we are the only country that can feed itself along with a quarter of the world? Man, get a clue. Really, have a bad day? Use a trillion dollar stimulus package for the pipes...

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:10 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oglala_Aquifer

Only 9% overall reduction in capacity. Still, there can be variations at a regional level in regards to size and storage capability of an aquifer. Some communities may begin to have problems drawing water from the aquifer depending on local conditions.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustbowl

We may have a lot of resources, but that doesn't mean we can't screw up.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:15 PM

You research, that people in the midwest try growing shit they can't and are subsidized to not grow what they can is not my problem. the science is America can self sustain a population of 1.4 billion. Seeing we are at 350 million. I think we should get the gov. out of it. Let Cali grow Lettuce and vegies New England everything, and you dustbowl cocksuckers GRAIN....dairy and meat everywhere....

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oglala_Aquifer

Only 9% overall reduction in capacity is not as dire as my initial understanding. Still, there can be variations at a regional level in regards to size and storage capability of an aquifer. Some communities may begin to have problems drawing water from the aquifer depending on local conditions.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustbowl

We may have a lot of resources, but that doesn't mean we can't screw up.

DUDE...we have a surplus of grains..

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:18 PM

I know. I don't like subsidizing and letting good food go bad either. But that's a separate issue, really. This is about groundwater resources.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:19 PM

Hey I am not Pat B. , however we are self sustainable. That is the bottom line. That farmers are starving has to do more with the governmental interference than ability.

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Wednesday, August 25, 2010 1:20 PM