'I go to bed at night... by chrisisall

Ha! You had me going. For a second, I was going to accuse you of having a niece take over your account... (

to Frem)

The mistake you make, Chris, is trying to place logic in brains that are not logic enabled. Though I think you did get the emotion right.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 2:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

You forgot to sign off with the judgmental "disappointed" smiley...

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 2:03 PM

BTW, I take it you all saw the "Rally to Restore Sanity"? Stewart has announced a march on the DC mall for sane people, where you might carry such a sign as: "I disagree with you, but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler." Loooove Stewart.

I had a moment of thinking - OMG! I totally need to go! And I should try to talk FFF RWED people into going so I can meet them and we can hang out and NOT ARGUE!

Then real life returned and I realized: I'm just not likely to make the trip. Which is sad. And not about inconvenience as much as hating crowds. But it was a fun thought.

FYI: others on these boards will clearly be more interested in Colbert's "Rally to Keep Fear Alive"...

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Friday, September 17, 2010 2:11 PM

MINCINGBEAST

I sympathize with Mr. Rappy. Though I disagree with him on mostly everything, I happen to think that he's on to something on the subject of islamic extremism (though for the record I wouldn't go as far as he does). It could be having an honest difference of opinion, or it could be that I'm a fearful hate monger.

Also, ya'll do a disservice to the word logic. Logic = someone stating a proposition that you support, using reasoning that makes sense to you. Illogic = anything you disagree with, using reasoning you find unpleasant.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 2:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Also, ya'll do a disservice to the word logic. Logic = someone stating a proposition that you support, using reasoning that makes sense to you. Illogic = anything you disagree with, using reasoning you find unpleasant.

Look up Illogic, MB. You might find something like this:

Illogic says: "A FEW MUSLIMS HAVE CARRIED OUT ACTS OF TERRORISM, THEREFORE ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!"

Logic replies: "Hang on, pal. There's good and bad Muslims, just as there's good and bad Christians, Jews, Atheists... "

"YOU DENY THAT ANY MUSLIMS HAVE CARRIED OUT ACTS OF TERRORISM. YOU ARE WRONG, THEREFORE IT'S TRUE THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!"

Reply: "No one denied that Muslims have done bad things. Could you point out where anyone denied such a thing?"

(Ignoring question, because addressing the question would mean using logic.) "A FEW MUSLIMS HAVE CARRIED OUT ACTS OF TERRORISM, THEREFORE ALL MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!"

My question for you MincingBeast: Have you actually known any Muslims, or you allowing your bias to grow from the fear-based sensationalism you see in the MSM? [ETA: my apologies for the strong reply if you meant to be ironic. This whole anti-Muslim thing has got me a bit peeved and tending to overreact. For fuck's sake, we're supposed to be freedom-loving America!]

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:08 PM

MINCINGBEAST

Logic is a meaningless word--outside of geometry and syllogisms. It is code for "nuh uh" or "yeah huh!" The same goes for reason. I know this, because nobody could possibly disagree with me without being unreasonable and illogical. And also ignorant. We all think this way, I fear.

I know several Muslims, but generally try to avoid the "some of my best friends are..." defense. Alas one of my best friends from undergrad is Muslim, and Palestinian besides. He is Muslim inasmuch as I am Jewish: it is a matter of family history and upbringing, but not faith, because he is a hard drinking apostate. The devout back home would gut him surely as they would me. Most other Muslims I have encountered would probably fall under this category (a law school colleague in particular, an Iranian bastard, who fasted for Ramadan for his ma's sake but drank Keystone all the time).

Beyond that, my exposure has been limited to those I've known in a professional (or intern) context, which was much less pleasant.

That said, I still maintain that (1) Osama bin Laden and his ilk are probably nastier than Sarah Palin and (2) the Koran is a shittier book than the Tanakh.

I am a knuckle-dragging atheist and must shit on everyone's beliefs, all the time. I rationalzie my Islamophobia as Islam presenting better targets to crap on, for the moment, and am frustrated by the fact that it is difficult to raise ths spectre of Islamic extremism without being called a hateful facist. I recognize that the converse of this is it's impossible to make statements of harmless Muslims without some asshole bringing up 9/11.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

The mistake you make, Chris, is trying to place logic in brains that are not logic enabled. Though I think you did get the emotion right.

There IS internal logic, and I think my intended subject is fairly consistent in that regard. Indeed, we all run to a degree on our own internal logic a great deal of the time. Stepping outside one's self is very difficult. I tried to do that with my initial post, but upon re-reading it, I think I still strayed into judgemental mockery on some small level... I was honestly trying to avoid that.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
an Iranian bastard, who fasted for Ramadan for his ma's sake but drank Keystone all the time

That freakin' hi-larious, Mince!!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
an Iranian bastard, who fasted for Ramadan for his ma's sake but drank Keystone all the time).

I can bring up examples of people of all nationalities and faiths that are just as hypocritical as this schmoe. What does it mean in the long run? Do his failings define everyone on Planet Earth who has some particular thing in common with this idget? (Some "thing" that I'm predisposed to demonize, of course.)

Quote:
...am frustrated by the fact that it is difficult to raise ths spectre of Islamic extremism without being called a hateful facist. I recognize that the converse of this is it's impossible to make statements of harmless Muslims without some asshole bringing up 9/11.

That's not it. My frustration is that it isn't possible to acknowledge the evils of 9/11 without jumping to such extreme conclusions that we go and rob some innocent New Yorkers of the freedom to go about their lives.

We can all fucking hate Osama, and still want Muslims in NYC to have a place to hang out. Really. We can. If we'd just chill out and quit with the fear game.

But some of us can't, because certain politicians have learned of the power of fear, and they hold sway over minds who can't do LOGIC.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
certain politicians have learned of the power of fear, and they hold sway over minds who can't do LOGIC.

Xactly.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

The mistake you make, Chris, is trying to place logic in brains that are not logic enabled. Though I think you did get the emotion right.

There IS internal logic, and I think my intended subject is fairly consistent in that regard. Indeed, we all run to a degree on our own internal logic a great deal of the time. Stepping outside one's self is very difficult. I tried to do that with my initial post, but upon re-reading it, I think I still strayed into judgemental mockery on some small level... I was honestly trying to avoid that.

The laughing Chrisisall

I think you did all right, Chris. And you're right that there is some amount of internal logic in that mindset, but it's based on fallacious assumptions such as ISLAM==EVIL, AMERICA==GOOD. These crappy assumptions make the whole argument null and void to me.

I don't mean to be mindlessly dismissive. I've had some experience with living in such a house of cards: denial makes for a structure that seems solid, but it's built on lies that one can't let oneself examine. I see this in the mentality of those who live in blind hate and endless, paranoid fear. They can't construct a reasonable reply to an honest question (CAN'T, not WON'T) because they are incapable of examining their own minds.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:45 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
an Iranian bastard, who fasted for Ramadan for his ma's sake but drank Keystone all the time
That's freakin' hi-larious, Mince!!!!

Yeah. Life's too short for drinking cheap beer , except among the Muslim extremists who believe Life's too cheap for drinking short beers...

I used to know several Paki-Muslims who were total porn-dogs...One of the funniest bits was that one of them was a 'prince' in the Paki 'royal family' that was in power at the time. He had a golden necklace with a large Arabic script. I asked him the significance of it , and he said , in reverent tones , " It is the Name of God..."

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I don't mean to be mindlessly dismissive.

Me either- see my next response...

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Friday, September 17, 2010 3:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:

I used to know several Paki-Muslims who were total porn-dogs...One of the funniest bits was that one of them was a 'prince' in the Paki 'royal family' that was in power at the time. He had a golden necklace with a large Arabic script. I asked him the significance of it , and he said , in reverent tones , " It is the Name of God..."

I used to work with a few Muslim dudes, one got married to an American girl while boasting that he f***ed every other hot chick in sight. Then got bothered when I made fun of all organized religions (including HIS).
However, we must remember that peeps from that area who come here are not average representatives of their land- they have means, and that is uncommon (read: spoiled).

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:18 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

http://scripturesforamerica.com

A nightly prayer: Psalm 109

1 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;

2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.

3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.

4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.

5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.

6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.

10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.

12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.

13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.

14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.

15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.

17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.

18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.

19 Let it be unto him as the garment which covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.

20 Let this be the reward of mine adversaries from the LORD, and of them that speak evil against my soul.

21 But do thou for me, O GOD the Lord, for thy name's sake: because thy mercy is good, deliver thou me.

22 For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:25 PM

Yea, though I walk through the valley of Piratenews bull**it, I will fear no post; for I am the baddest gung-fu man on site. Verily, Piratenews seeks fornication with other men in his mind, yet denies it to metrosexuals that come on to him, feeling unworthy of such pretty.

John, man. Cut the crap so I don't have to be an idiot like this, okay?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:26 PM

My experience with Muslims has mostly (but not all) been in academia. Which means: I've known some Muslim folks who were privileged enough to buy their way into American universities, and some who were talented enough to get there on their own. Also, I've known some who looked and acted just like any other average American I've encountered. There is no rule.

I've shaken hands with turbaned and robed fellows who were clearly taken aback by the prospect of actually *touching* a woman. An uncovered, on equal footing, American woman. The thing is, they did it. They made contact and then made an effort to be polite to me, to set me at ease. And not so they could sneak behind me and set off bombs. They were, like most people, willing to bend a bit to make the situation peaceful, despite our differing backgrounds.

I can't boast of always being so pliant myself, despite my wholesome mid-western Americana upbringing. But because I'm white, I'm given a chance to prove that I'm not really an asshole. I wish every Muslim had such a chance to be known as individual human beings.

I guess I mean to say: anyone who calls this thing in New York a "Victory Mosque" only proves that they are incapable of being as open minded as the Muslims I've known. Take ten minutes to learn about the builders of the community center before making assumptions of any kind of "Victorious" intentions. Otherwise, it's nothing but fear talking.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I guess I mean to say: anyone who calls this thing in New York a "Victory Mosque" only proves that they are incapable of being as open minded as the Muslims I've known.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought a Mosque (as much as I laff at organized religion) in NY is a way of saying Allah loves all, & Muslims (REAL Muslims) didn't DO this hateful deed.
Am I wrong?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:38 PM

KLESST

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Logic is a meaningless word--outside of geometry and syllogisms.

You regularly prove yourself wrong. There may only be a few open minds left in the world but they are susceptible to logic. Logic and statistics tell us that we have little reason to fear Muslims because they usually prey on each other, but odds are if I get killed in a terrorist attack it will be Muslims responsible for my demise. "It's simple physics".

Quote:

Iranian bastard, who fasted for Ramadan for his ma's sake but drank Keystone all the time).

Probably reminded him of drinking camel piss.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:43 PM

*OUCH*

SOCKPUPPET ALERT

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:47 PM

KLESST

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
*OUCH*

SOCKPUPPET ALERT

Were have you been Chris, I outed myself in my second post here. I even gave hints.

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Friday, September 17, 2010 4:52 PM

OUTED SOCKPUPPET ALERT

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Friday, September 17, 2010 6:32 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have to agree with Mincing that logic/illogic is probably misapplied, and has been at least ever since Star Trek. For one thing, something can be logical without being right, and something can be illogical without being wrong.

And now I'm going to tread on uncomfortable ground.

If we know that religious texts contain reprehensible instructions for adherents to follow, then it is logical to be wary of adherents to that religious text.

If we know that adherents of a particular religion are responsible for more religious-themed acts of terror than any other religion, it is logical to be wary of adherents to that religion in the absence of any mitigating data.

Statistically, Muslims may be the group most likely to carry out a religious-themed act of terror. I don't have the statistics, but it may very well be an undeniable fact.

Making decisions based on that fact may be logical. You could certainly make logical arguments about why you should.

The fact is, you can logically defend a great number of positions, and show logical deductions to explain behavior that is alternatively very desirable and utterly reprehensible.

Logic is a thinking tool. Computers do it without regard to right vs. wrong. Some people do, too. Logic does not equal ethics.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 6:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The thing that gets me this morning is that the all-consuming subject these days (aside from the midterms), and especially here, seems to be whether Muslims are dangerous and "comin' to get us" or whether they're human beings, some of which are extremists, as there are in every culture.

Now the thing that really gets to me is what someone mentioned recently; that after all this time, the only thing they've managed to do was catch us off guard and blow up a couple of towers. Horrific as that is, exactly how many American citizens in this country have been victims of terrorist acts? What are the odds that ANY of us here will be? Then why are we so obsessed about it?

The attempt to stoke me into fearing 1.5 billion people, some of whom are, unquestionably, horrible, but who are unable to get over here in any numbers serious enough to harm any of US. Yet it's virtually all we talk about.

What's the answer? Talk loudly and weild our big stick? Didn't we already do that, and how much has it "helped"? Spewing anger and hate does nothing positive for us, for America, or for the situation...it's just being a blowhard, which our country has been far too many times as it is.

Bah...there are so many other things going on that DO impact us every single day, and what's going on is being done by people who want power over us and ARE GETTING IT.

"Messicans are gonna take us over", "Muslims are gonna take us over"...well, what I see regarding Muslims is many of us doing a great job of exactly what they WANT...turning us into non-thinking mobs just like them. Damn, they're good.

A goodly number of our leaders are doing the exact same thing...using fear to turn us into a non-thinking mob they can push this way and that for their own gain. Damn, they're good.

Me, I'm gonna go walk the huskies; it's fun "playing" here but it means nothing. JMHO.

Chris, 'ya done good; you had me going the whole WAY. A new high for you...you're getting almost TOO good!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I have to agree with Mincing that logic/illogic is probably misapplied, and has been at least ever since Star Trek. For one thing, something can be logical without being right, and something can be illogical without being wrong.

True. But you can ID a biased person by pointing out the huge gaping holes in their logic. For instance, let's try to determine how frightened we should be of any random Muslim person. What are the odds that the strangely dressed dark skinned person riding the NYC subway, or trying to build a community center, is a big evil terrorist?

Let's try bad logic:

Quote:
If we know that religious texts contain reprehensible instructions for adherents to follow, then it is logical to be wary of adherents to that religious text.

Which applies to every religion and cult out there, not just to one religion in particular. For this claim to hold water, you would need to prove that Catholics are capable of ignoring the insanity in the Bible, while Muslims cannot do the same with the Koran.

Quote:
If we know that adherents of a particular religion are responsible for more religious-themed acts of terror than any other religion, it is logical to be wary of adherents to that religion in the absence of any mitigating data.

Really Anthony? Really? What you just said is the logical equivalent to: if the majority of customers in a Fuddruckers restaurant is white, then all white people in the world must eat at Fuddruckers.

Quote:
Statistically, Muslims may be the group most likely to carry out a religious-themed act of terror. I don't have the statistics, but it may very well be an undeniable fact.

I believe Niki posted these stats, and Muslims were not at all top on the list. They weren't even second. I think it was less than 10% of terror acts in recent history have been carried out by Muslims. (Niki, help? I can't find your post.)

But that number really doesn't matter anyhow, since the logic you built on it is not at all sound. And peace Anthony - I understand that this logic is NOT your way of thinking. But you're making a mistake to pass off logical arguments because some people misuse them. No, logic is not ethics, but in an emotional issue like this, logic is the best way to ID bias and emotional manipulation. As long as it's sound logic, and it's openly discussed and tested.

(You'll note how open Rappy is to discussing his own logic. As in - not at all.)

My logic?

the odds that any single Muslim is a terrorist

= # terrorist acts by Muslims / # Muslims in the world

= Slim to none

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 3:01 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

The problem with 'logic fail' is not that the logic is typically bad in and of itself. It's that the logic stops so that the adherent can leap to a desired position or course of action.

Let us say that most religious terrorists are Muslim. I don't have these figures. It's a supposition for an argument.

One could then say that I am more likely to find a terrorist in a Mosque than in a Church. That's fine, as far as it goes.

However, like you pointed out, the chance of finding a terrorist at all is vanishingly small, much like the chance of getting hit by lightning in my living room. It's happened before, but it's bloody unlikely.

However, the bigot can make an argument against Muslims by stopping his logic at the point where it supports his argument, and then failing to continue.

Let us make a new supposition to take the argument further. Let us suppose that 1 in every 10 Muslims is out to destroy America. I don't mean they don't like America. I mean that they would take advantage of any opportunity to destroy America if it presented itself.

Now, some people would look at this alarming 10% statistic and declare, "Something needs to be done about these Muslims!"

And if you stop the logic there, well, it sounds good.

But if you don't stop thinking, and continue your thought process, you may realize that the only way to do something about these Muslims is to make some pretty fundamental changes to the nature of America. The most apparent way to stop the Muslim Menace is to destroy America for them, and make it into something else. Something that doesn't tolerate the presence of Muslims.

But you never see these people starting their argument with the idea that we should make fundamental changes to America or destroy its basic principles. You hear them arguing that we ought to Save America from the Muslims. They don't say how, exactly. Those are the sorts of details that might alarm people, or even themselves if they were to voice it out loud too soon.

And yet, those kinds of details tend to work themselves out once you embrace the premise. Kind of like if you agree that all severely handicapped people are drains on society, and something ought to be done about them.

Well, once you agree to that premise, then you open yourself up to a lot of reprehensible stuff that you wouldn't otherwise consider. But first, the premise must be embraced.

Right now, a lot of people are in the Islam = Evil stage of the game. It's an easy argument, since the religious text has many awful excerpts to choose from. You can also select your special sampling of Muslims and show them doing evil things. You can demonstrate aspects of their society that are barbaric and have troubling inequality. It can all be made very logical. Once they get enough people on board with that, and the fact that *something* has to be done, then they can work out the next step of the ultimate Solution.

Meanwhile, people who don't stop the logic train at the first stop realize that buying the premise leads to destroying the very thing you wanted to protect.

We have a (mostly) secular government that operates on principles that are (mostly) divorced from religion. I say mostly, because for every 10 practices divorced from religion you're liable to find 1 that isn't. But it's a good ratio, and it's changing for the better as time goes by.

The problem that 'barbaric' Muslim nations have is that they often exist in a religious country whose laws are not divorced from theocracy. Any such nation will tend to be oppressive at best.

So our best shield against barbarism is the continuing strengthening of the separations between church and state, and the continuing strengthening of the rights of the individual. Preserving that shield requires Muslims to be tolerated, along with Satanists and Scientologists and Catholics. Break the protections to target anyone, and you are holding a paper shield while handing the enemy a torch.

Anyone who follows their logic past the first stop can find this destination. But if you stop with, "Islam is Evil and Muslims are Dangerous" and assume that "something must be done" then your only destination is a loss of liberty.

The reality is something IS being done. We're holding on to our freedoms and our liberties. As long as we don't let go, the bad guys can't win. They can wound us, but they can't end us. Only we have the power to do that.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 3:10 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I'd like to add something else. I say above that the 'bigot' can do X. Well, anyone can, really. And anyone probably has.

A comedian once joked that the reason the thing you're looking for is in the last place you look is obvious. Once you find it, you stop looking.

So once your logic reaches the place you want to go, it's common to want to get off.

It's a constant challenge to keep going and explore all the possible adventures and misadventures of a policy or philosophy. However, doing so yields positive results. At a minimum - a grain of wisdom.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:00 PM

KLESST

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Let us say that most religious terrorists are Muslim. I don't have these figures. It's a supposition for an argument.

One could then say that I am more likely to find a terrorist in a Mosque than in a Church. That's fine, as far as it goes.

However, like you pointed out, the chance of finding a terrorist at all is vanishingly small, much like the chance of getting hit by lightning in my living room. It's happened before, but it's bloody unlikely.

So because the probability of a Muslin terrorist killing you is remote, we should strip search little old ladies and pretend that they are just as likely to be terrorists. I understand there is almost no chance I personally will get killed by a terrorist, but I don't want to see little old ladies get blown up because you're to much of a pussy to accept the fact that stopping Muslim terrorists requires looking in the Muslim population not in an old ladies anus.

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:07 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Apropros of nothin, yanno...

Them Syrians actually DO brew a decent beer - pick yourself up a bottle of Al-Chark sometime if you can find one.

-F

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:20 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"I don't want to see little old ladies get blown up because you're to much of a pussy to accept the fact that stopping Muslim terrorists requires looking in the Muslim population not in an old ladies anus."

Hello,

Or we could all stop being pussies and accept that freedom carries some risk. I'm prepared to live in a world where we don't sift the contents of anyone's anus without a damn good reason.

Respectfully yours,

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Klesst:
but I don't want to see little old ladies get blown up because you're to much of a pussy to accept the fact that stopping Muslim terrorists requires looking in the Muslim population not in an old ladies anus.

*gloves off*
So Kles, are you too much of a pussy to go post your inane bullshit on strictly political boards? Is that why you choose to vomit on a Firefly site?
See, 'cause we have a community here. We basically respect each other. There are no mods.
If I *were* a mod here though, I'd kick your sorry pitiful ass outta here.

Shit. Sockpuppet stink.

Excuuuuuse me.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 1:28 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Klesst:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Let us say that most religious terrorists are Muslim. I don't have these figures. It's a supposition for an argument.

One could then say that I am more likely to find a terrorist in a Mosque than in a Church. That's fine, as far as it goes.

However, like you pointed out, the chance of finding a terrorist at all is vanishingly small, much like the chance of getting hit by lightning in my living room. It's happened before, but it's bloody unlikely.

So because the probability of a Muslin terrorist killing you is remote, we should strip search little old ladies and pretend that they are just as likely to be terrorists. I understand there is almost no chance I personally will get killed by a terrorist, but I don't want to see little old ladies get blown up because you're to much of a pussy to accept the fact that stopping Muslim terrorists requires looking in the Muslim population not in an old ladies anus.

The possibility of a "muslin" terrorist killing me is nonexistent. There are no terrorists made of muslin cloth (although there seem to be lots and lots and lots of anti-Muslim arguments around here which have all the strength and integrity of muslin...)

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 2:23 AM

LOL!!!!

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The problem with 'logic fail' is not that the logic is typically bad in and of itself. It's that the logic stops so that the adherent can leap to a desired position or course of action.

Sure. Bad logic sucks. Check. Sticking "therefore" in a sentence does not automatically make it a logical statement. Check.

I guess I don't really understand what you're after with the logic stuff, Anthony, except the obvious: all logical statements should be questioned. Well, maybe that's obvious to you and me, and less so to the Tea Partiers and haters amongst us.

I definitely agree that church and state should not be in bed together. But nor are they allowed to masturbate. Which maybe is the problem. If the church would masturbate more often, maybe it'd quit chasing the state around.

BTW, the number is 6%. 6 of every 100 terror attacks are carried out by Muslims.

"...according to FBI files, which can be accessed through fbi.gov, only 6 percent of terrorists are Muslim. The remaining percentage of terrorist attacks on U.S. territory includes: Latinos at 42 percent, extreme Left Wing groups at 24 percent, Jewish extremists at 7 percent, Communists at 5 percent, and other terrorist organizations at 16 percent."
http://www.dailytitan.com/2010/09/13/only-6-percent-of-terrorists-are-
muslim/

Apparently, we should be more frightened of all those Jewish folks in NYC then we should of the Muslims.

But I guess the Tea Partiers have it right to live in terror of the Latinos and the lefties, huh? [/irony] [/bad logic]

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:51 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"But I guess the Tea Partiers have it right to live in terror of the Latinos and the lefties, huh? [/irony] [/bad logic]"

Hello,

Yes indeed. I am dismayed to learn that I am probably a terrorist due to my Latino heritage.

But then, I suppose anyone who has seen the movie Machete would know what a ticking time bomb me and my people are.

I wonder if the Latino count includes the Basque, or if they get their own category. If it turns out the Basque are included, I fear they'll be none too pleased. Be wary of all Jai Alai players on your next flight.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

But then, I suppose anyone who has seen the movie Machete would know what a ticking time bomb me and my people are.

I definitely wanna see that flick!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Yes indeed. I am dismayed to learn that I am probably a terrorist due to my Latino heritage.

If I ever find myself sitting next to you on a bus, I will check the statistics, then dutifully cower in fear.

Since I'm more or less a leftie, you should cower back, but only about 2/3 as much.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 4:49 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Well, it gets worse for you, Mal. See, I'm more or less a rightie, but because I understand and have sympathy for many leftist positions, and don't condemn them out of hand, I am considered a leftie anyway.

And so, double whammy for you.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 6:12 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Klesst:
but I don't want to see little old ladies get blown up because you're to much of a pussy to accept the fact that stopping Muslim terrorists requires looking in the Muslim population not in an old ladies anus.

*gloves off*
So Kles, are you too much of a pussy to go post your inane bullshit on strictly political boards? Is that why you choose to vomit on a Firefly site?
See, 'cause we have a community here. We basically respect each other. There are no mods.
If I *were* a mod here though, I'd kick your sorry pitiful ass outta here.

Shit. Sockpuppet stink.

Excuuuuuse me.

The laughing Chrisisall

Klesst might be the person sitting on their porch cursing at the damn kids to get off their lawn, but whether or not the experience is enjoyable for us does not alter the fact that Klesst has as much of a right on this board as does everyone else. Just the same as they have a right to their property and land, and we can't and shouldn't kick them off.

Freedom of religion means having to accept Muslims, and being the Muslims I know are alright people (specifically, their family fled Iraq when Saddam came into power), this isn't too bad a thing. Freedom of speech means having to accept people like Klesst, who while brusque and offensive, may sometimes have a point.

A dearth of opinions is the death of a board.

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 6:17 AM

Klesst is a goof on us all. An unfunny one.
More like a troll than anything else.

Okay, let the troll drone. Trolls are beings too.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 7:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

[Coming back up the thread: Damn, Mal4 found the link, yes, it was the FBI website. So, given the logic proposed and the FBI’s figures, we should be strip-searching Latinos FAR more than Muslims, yes?

All that effort; well, I’m going to post what I found anyway--bear in mind the original question was answered, this is just ancillary material I found looking for it:]

Mal4, I can't remember the specific thread, either, nor can I find it. I did find the following at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents .It lists terrorist incidents going back to I believe 1800 or thereabouts. It doesn’t list who DID the act, but where the act was committed, and it shows acts of terrorism by many groups, not all religious, in fact more political than religious. That was my statement; not that the most acts of religious terrorism aren’t committed by Muslims, just that many groups commit/committed terrorism.

Another at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_groups lists terrorist organizations, with the caveat that

Quote:
This listing does not include states or governmental organizations, which are considered under state terrorism, or unaffiliated individuals accused of terrorism, which are considered under lone wolf terrorism.

There have been far more state-sponsored and lone-wolf terrorist acts throughout history than those committed for religion.

Lone-wolf terrorists like Timothy McVeigh have been responsible for most acts of terror in the United States. The McNamara brothers (two Irish-American brothers who bombed the Los Angeles Times building

As for non-Muslim terrorists, there have been many through history, including the KKK, IRA, Weather Underground, Aleph (Japanese), Hezbollah, Aryan Nation, AETA, Hamas, SLA, ALF and many others. We even have a law; Animal Enterprises Terrorism Act ( http://www.alternet.org/rights/141328/the_animal_enterprise_terrorism_
act%3A_the_most_dangerous_domestic_terror_law_you%27ve_never_heard_of/). As to religious terrorists in particular, even Buddhists have been involved (Sinhala Buddhist committed acts against Christians and Tamal, and Aum Shinrikyo— the sarin gas attacks—drew on Buddhism and Hinduism), along with Christians (Army of God—anti-abortion bombings and killings), Hindus and Jews (Jewish Defense League) http://terrorism.about.com/od/politicalislamterrorism/tp/Religious-ter
rorism.htm ).

Terrorism has existed since the Middle Ages. Historically, Muslims represent a small number of terrorist acts. Currently, they represent the largest, but if you take a historical point of view, there have always been terrorist acts, and always will be, long after those by Muslims are forgotten, as most of the others have been.

I remember a time when some of these were all the news, especially times when the SLA or IRA were the biggies; now it's Muslim extremists. The attacks of 9/11 were so horrific that it brought Muslim extremists to the fore, and we have become terrorized by them, a result of our own mentality rather than any facts concerning the US. History rolls on.

Anthony, your treatise on “logic fail” is absolutely beautiful, what I’d like to say but far better than I could ever say it. Thank you.

By the way, in my later search of the FBI, I found this about deaths of private Americans abroad in 2009:

Quote:
U.S. citizens worldwide killed as a result of incidents of terrorism: 9
U.S. citizens worldwide injured as a result of incidents of terrorism: 14
U.S. citizens worldwide kidnapped as a result of incidents of terrorism: 4

So it looks like, even abroad, the chance of a US citizen dying as a result of terrorism is pretty tiny.

There’s a 2009 report put out by the National Counterterrorism Center ( http://www.nctc.gov/) which is the best. It has graphs and lots of details. According to it, worldwide, in 2009 the total deaths break down to

Quote:
Deaths by Perpetrator Category

Tribal/Clan/Ethnic - 508I
Islamic Extremist (Sunni) - 9,280
Other – 154
Christian Extremist - 1,052
Unknown - 2,276
Secular/Political/Anarchist - 2,124

So, via the most recent figures, Sunni terrorists account for the most terrorist deaths in the world in 2009.

Re what Byte said: I agree. Ugly as they sometimes are, everyone has a right to say their piece here, Klest included.

By the way, the mention of “Muslims I have known” reminds me that someone said in some thread that the Muslims here had the money to come here. I forgot to respond that it’s not true; most of the Muslims that came here did so because one member of their family made it over (not necessarily because of riches), then works like a dog to bring other family members here. That’s true of the Muslims I know, as well as virtually all others from non-Western cultures. Often they bring enough family members over to start or buy a small business, which the family runs together. I know just how tough that is, given Jim, I, his brother, son and daughter all worked at the pizza parlor Jim and I owned for five years. Let me tell you, that is NOT a good or "rich" life!!! We've called it ever since "Days of the Pizza Parlor" or "As the Pizza Parlor Turns". It was hell.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 9:48 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"If I *were* a mod here though, I'd kick your sorry pitiful ass outta here."

Hello Chris,

Freedom of speech means we have to tolerate people we don't like out in the world.

Of course, this is private space. Haken's space, I believe. If this was your site, you could choose who to invite here. You could also choose what rules of conduct would be followed here. Your fairness in implementing those rules would probably influence how successful the site was and what sort of atmosphere you could look forward to.

I personally am very selective about who I invite into my house, and how I expect them to behave. I suspect most people have some kind of restrictive rule about their personal spaces, who gets to share them, and how.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

If this was your site, you could choose who to invite here.

A Pakistani co-worker of mine used to have a phrase for peeps like Kles-

Stop da boolsheet.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 3:49 PM

Thanks for the info Niki. Always good to have more facts, and you dug up a lot more than I did!

I think another good stat to add (if I had the energy) would be who the violence is acted on. All that Latino violence could be fodder for over-active white suburban imaginations, especially since such minds would assume the violence was aimed at THEM. Most likely, that's a lot of drug war stuff, Latinos killing Latinos, right? So it's not all aimed at the US.

More to the present point, I wander how many of those killings by Muslims were done to Muslims. Which certainly wouldn't make it all right, but would have some bearing on the question of how much the average American should be, according to logic, living in fear.

OK, that's some Sunday night rambling after a long lovely day. Sailing is fun, but I'm sleepy.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, September 20, 2010 4:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Statistically, you have a greater chance of drowning in a five gallon bucket, than meeting, much less ever taking harm from, some radical islam nutter.

Conversely, if you happen to be gay, pagan, or a minority, your chances of being violently confronted at least once by some radical christian are statistically high enough to qual you for a gun permit even in a may-issue state.

Heavens know, I've exchanged both words, blows and bullets before with the fuckers, and dickheads like William Krar slip right under the notice of the pissants which are our so-called protectors while they chase phantoms, whip up the booga-booga, or even *make* terror plots themselves out of nothing to justify themselves.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2010/09/blowback-provocation-and-
perpetual-war.html

It's all a matter of threat assessment, you don't take precautions against tripping on a curb and breaking your neck cause it's so damn unlikely, but you DO take precautions against say, an auto accident, cause it's statistically more so.

Oh, and believe me, if my niece were to swipe my login name, her atrocious grammar, leetspeak and complete and utter lack of technical knowhow (in fact, I just got virus-spam this morning, which means she's once AGAIN let her email account get loose, thanks to MySpace/Facebook exploits) would give her away all but instantly - I can't seem to convince her that she should apply the same standards to an email that she should a written letter and as a result trying to read that crap has me all but reaching for the Grammar Spork.
http://www.queenofwands.net/d/20040628.html

Her tech and PC knowledge is extremely limited cause her mom will not let her have a computer, or access to a phone, or friends over... cause she rightfully fears being legally called on some of her abusive behavior - I don't care that she is my sister or not, there's times I'd like to drag that girl behind a truck, as she has let that school and society put her in a position where she is abusive to her own offspring, and everyone BUT me seems to be ok with it, which disgusts me profoundly.

Wendy, former rescuee and self-adopted daughter, is the dangerous one, she can not only convincingly impersonate me online, if she keeps it short she can convincingly do my "voice" over the phone, too...
That don't bother me as much as it might, for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is that I am not even the original Fremdfirma - that torch was passed to me by the same guy who gave me the files on Synanon, and some other nasty stuff, and I suspect by the content and dating of some of them, he himself was not the original initiator of THAT investigation either.

And so on, and so forth.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AsLongAsThereIsEvil

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, September 20, 2010 5:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yer most welcome, Mal4; I learn as much looking things up on Google that people mention here as I do posting--and actually spend a lot more time at it. It's quite an education, and yes, I take most of what I read with a BIG grain of salt, nonetheless, I've learned tons.

That last one, National Counterterrorism Center, had a pie chart and statistics on victims of terrorism, too...I seem to recall something there and several other places that talked about the percentages of victims who were this or that. That NCTC had a ton of pie charts at the very end which broke terrorism down by all sorts of categories. Was interesting.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, September 20, 2010 7:28 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Klesst:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Let us say that most religious terrorists are Muslim. I don't have these figures. It's a supposition for an argument.

One could then say that I am more likely to find a terrorist in a Mosque than in a Church. That's fine, as far as it goes.

However, like you pointed out, the chance of finding a terrorist at all is vanishingly small, much like the chance of getting hit by lightning in my living room. It's happened before, but it's bloody unlikely.

So because the probability of a Muslin terrorist killing you is remote, we should strip search little old ladies and pretend that they are just as likely to be terrorists. I understand there is almost no chance I personally will get killed by a terrorist, but I don't want to see little old ladies get blown up because you're to much of a pussy to accept the fact that stopping Muslim terrorists requires looking in the Muslim population not in an old ladies anus.

Why is this the only post here that makes any sense?.....And you cunts mock it.

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Monday, September 20, 2010 7:35 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Klesst is a goof on us all. An unfunny one.
More like a troll than anything else.

Okay, let the troll drone. Trolls are beings too.

The laughing Chrisisall

Why would being unfunny matter? First Klesst is funny...Come on "old lady's anus'"....Hilarious. The point that none of us are going to get blown up by sand-niggars, however thousands of others are/have, is fact. Read a paper, watch CBS EeeVin(meant to sound like the lion in wizard of oz), take head out of arse....the truth is with skully.........

pointingoutacockisall....onethatisnotonkwickoslipsisall

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Monday, September 20, 2010 10:48 AM