REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A Simple Answer and Truth

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:40
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1180
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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:17 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


6 days and counting.



"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:25 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg




"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


As much as I'd like to say we are in need of the leadership and greatness of Ronaldus Magnus, I'm almost to the point of saying..we're simply not worthy.



"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:34 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"As much as I'd like to say we are in need of the leadership and greatness of Ronaldus Magnus, I'm almost to the point of saying..we're simply not worthy."

Hell with that. I was not even a teenager when he said these things.

But, I grew up, and learned these tenets (Edited for smart-asses).

The ideals and cause of our people, the freedoms and hopes that we hold dear.. are not transitional.

They are pieces of gold, to be passed on and down, thru the generations.


"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 12:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Posted by Wulfenstar:


"As much as I'd like to say we are in need of the leadership and greatness of Ronaldus Magnus, I'm almost to the point of saying..we're simply not worthy."

Hell with that. I was not even a teenager when he said these things.

But, I grew up, and learned these tenants.

The ideals and cause of our people, the freedoms and hopes that we hold dear.. are not transitional.

They are pieces of gold, to be passed on and down, thru the generations.



Tenants?

You learned rent-paying residents?

Weird.


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:38 PM

DREAMTROVE


Mike,

That was pretty funny. As often as I've seen that error, that was the most non-chalant correction I've seen. It possessed a certain stoner coolth.

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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 2:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thanks, DT. One tries. :)


I see & hear the word "pundits" get misused a lot, too. You hear lots of commentators talking about the "pundants"; I always think they must be wearing a small talking head on a chain around their neck...


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:10 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Thanks, DT. One tries. :)



Funny & sad that anyone can vote, eh?
Pundants especially.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Thanks, DT. One tries. :)



Funny & sad that anyone can vote, eh?
Pundants especially.


The laughing Chrisisall





And according to Rappy, there's a massive influx of illegals coming in and voting now. He's sure of it, because Joy Behar seemed to kinda-sorta halfway not allude to it in some catty remark she made. Not that Rappy watches The View or anything... ;)


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:31 PM

CHRISISALL


'View' chicks are un-American, and deserve enhanced interrogation to find out if Whoopie is indeed a terrorist cell leader!!!


The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, October 27, 2010 3:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"As much as I'd like to say we are in need of the leadership and greatness of Ronaldus Magnus, I'm almost to the point of saying..we're simply not worthy."

Hell with that. I was not even a teenager when he said these things.

But, I grew up, and learned these tenets (Edited for smart-asses).

The ideals and cause of our people, the freedoms and hopes that we hold dear.. are not transitional.

They are pieces of gold, to be passed on and down, thru the generations.




What?

You're not worthy of a massive tax increase?

You're not worthy of a cut-n-run President who pulls troops and runs away after sending in U.S. forces and getting over 280 of them killed in one day?

You're not worthy of a President who lies?

You're not worthy of a President who gives weapons to our enemies, negotiates with terrorists, operates an illegal weapons/drugs/money-laundering ring out of the basement of the Pentagon?

You're not worthy of unemployment above 10%?

You're not worthy of a longer and deeper recession?

You're not worthy of another banking collapse and scandal?

You're not worthy of a President with incredibly racist policies?


Wow. When you put it like that, I guess we really AREN'T worthy of a "conservative" like Reagan. Sounds like somebody should have shot that guy!


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Thursday, October 28, 2010 3:53 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"You're not worthy of a massive tax increase?

You're not worthy of a cut-n-run President who pulls troops and runs away after sending in U.S. forces and getting over 280 of them killed in one day?

You're not worthy of a President who lies?

You're not worthy of a President who gives weapons to our enemies, negotiates with terrorists, operates an illegal weapons/drugs/money-laundering ring out of the basement of the Pentagon?

You're not worthy of unemployment above 10%?

You're not worthy of a longer and deeper recession?

You're not worthy of another banking collapse and scandal?

You're not worthy of a President with incredibly racist policies?

Wow. When you put it like that, I guess we really AREN'T worthy of a "progressive" like Obama. Sounds like somebody should have shot that guy!"


------------------------------------------------
Wow Kwick, I didn't realize you hated Obama so much.

So are you ready now, to grow up and become an adult whose views are intelligent, patriotic and important?

I know its tough to stop being a liberal progressive... but you CAN do it. You CAN become an adult.

I know I'm anxiously waiting for that day. :)

"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:05 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
As much as I'd like to say we are in need of the leadership and greatness of Ronaldus Magnus, I'm almost to the point of saying..we're simply not worthy.


"We're not worthy"? Speak for yourself. The country is worthy of great leadership, and we have less than one year to find that candidate.



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Thursday, October 28, 2010 4:30 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"We're not worthy"? Speak for yourself. The country is worthy of great leadership, and we have less than one year to find that candidate."

Still holding out for Ron Paul.

But, we will see.


"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:01 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Give it up already for Ron Paul. The guy is delusional, a real whack-job who could never get elected. Someone more like Chris Christie is what's needed.





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Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:07 AM

DREAMTROVE


Ron Paul started this revolution, so, sure, he'll never get elected, but he'll always be its Ben Franklin.

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 5:16 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg




"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahh, the fantasies of Wulf. Need a hero so damned bad, don'tcha, some fantasy figure you know nothing about who you can idolize and pretend was some kind of messiah?
Quote:

You're not worthy of a President who lies?

You're not worthy of a President who gives weapons to our enemies, negotiates with terrorists, operates an illegal weapons/drugs/money-laundering ring out of the basement of the Pentagon?

You're not worthy of another banking collapse and scandal?

You're not worthy of a President with incredibly racist policies?

No, actually I didn't think either Bush OR Nixon were worthy of US, thank you.

Keep it up with those pretend videos, Wulf...you are the perfect example of the difference between "growing up" and "maturing". You keep telling people in that self-satisfied way to "grow up" and call them "childish". Let me clue you in a bit; one can "grow up" and still be incredibly immataure...you know, like living in a dream world of heroes and villains, being unable to contemplate something that isn't either completely evil or completely wonderful, being able to think for themselves, clinging to fantasies embodied in movies and TV...

Now, someone who has matured AS they "grew up" recognizes there are NO "simple answers" or "simple truths", the world is complex, humans are complex (well, the mature ones anyway) and no Youtube video is real. And Reagan was no hero, any more than Kennedy.

Just to clue you in a teeeny bit about your "hero":
Quote:

From ‘Landslide – The Unmaking of the President 1984-1988,’ by Jane Mayer & Doyle McManus (Houghton Mifflin, 1988: “[Reagan’s] aides went to great lengths to conceal potentially embarrassing quirks. They were secretive about such matters as the president’s and his daughter Maureen’s apparently sincere belief that a ghost haunted the Lincoln Bedroom (Maureen claimed it had a ‘red aura’), the president’s assertion that he had seen a flying saucer, and his acquiescence to Mrs. Reagan’s reliance on astrology to determine his schedule.”
The man believed in flying saucers and all sorts of mystical things (which I realize fits right in with your beliefs, so that wouldn't disuade you). We all knew about it at the time, and we all watched his dementia gradually overtake him and Nancy run the country as puppet master.

But even leaving all that out, his POLICIES were just as insane. I know they're held up by neocons and some conservatives as the Word of God, but that's another fantasy.
Quote:

Missing from almost all discussion of America’s dizzying rate of unemployment is the brute fact that hourly wages of people with jobs have been dropping, adjusted for inflation. In other words, Americans are keeping their jobs or finding new ones only by accepting lower wages.

Meanwhile, a much smaller group of Americans’ earnings are back in the stratosphere: Wall Street traders and executives, hedge-fund and private-equity fund managers, and top corporate executives. America’s median wage, adjusted for inflation, has barely budged for decades. Between 2000 and 2007 it actually dropped. Under these circumstances the only way the middle class could boost its purchasing power was to borrow, as it did with gusto. As housing prices rose, Americans turned their homes into ATMs.

when earnings accumulate at the top, people at the top invest their wealth in whatever assets seem most likely to attract other big investors. This causes the prices of certain assets—commodities, stocks, dot-coms or real estate—to become wildly inflated. Such speculative bubbles eventually burst, leaving behind mountains of near-worthless collateral.

..............

Reaganomics, VooDoo Economics, Trickle Down Economics, Black Tuesday - the Gipper's Legacy.

It was "because Reagan lowered taxes" massively for the wealthy, nearly spent the nation into oblivion pursuing an insane Arms Race & changed America from the world's biggest lender into a huge debtor, that killed the beast. Reagan began the orgy of borrowing to feed a gluttonous, bloated, Military Industrial Complex. Yes, we can "blame Reagan" for throwing gas on the fire of Borrowing Our Way Out of Debt that became the core value of the NeoCon Revolution that worshipped him.

Reagan was instrumental in begining the rout of America's middle class that ultimately lead to the stagnation & retreat of the average incomes we see today. Even "The income of college-educated younger people, adjusted for inflation, has been in decline since 2000." according to the new issue of 'Smithsonian'. It's said that over 75% of the wealthy generated this decade was scarfed up by the top 10%. Reagan was the Poster Boy for Living Beyond Your Means & Union Busting. Conservatives have Reagan's Legacy tied around their necks.

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/forum/politics/reaganomics-remain-h
aunting


That pretty much covers it on what Bush 41 (who had twice the brains of his imbicile son) called "Voodoo Economics".

I lived through Reagan, both as our Governor and (to my incredulous astonishment that he was elected) as President. Here are a few TRUTHS from one who watched it happen:
Quote:

With his superficially sunny disposition - and a ruthless political strategy of exploiting white-male resentments - Reagan convinced millions of Americans that the threats they faced were: African-American welfare queens, Central American leftists, a rapidly expanding Evil Empire based in Moscow, and the do-good federal government.

With his superficially sunny disposition - and a ruthless political strategy of exploiting white-male resentments - Reagan convinced millions of Americans that the threats they faced were: African-American welfare queens, Central American leftists, a rapidly expanding Evil Empire based in Moscow, and the do-good federal government.

The Cold War was won well before Reagan arrived in the White House. Indeed, in the 1970s, it was a common perception in the U.S. intelligence community that the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union was winding down, in large part because the Soviet economic model had failed in the technological race with the West.

That was the view of many Kremlinologists in the CIA's analytical division. Also, I was told by a senior CIA's operations official that some of the CIA's best spies inside the Soviet hierarchy supported the view that the Soviet Union was headed toward collapse, not surging toward world supremacy, as Reagan and his foreign policy team insisted in the early 1980s.

The CIA analysis was the basis for the détente that was launched by Nixon and Ford, essentially seeking a negotiated solution to the most dangerous remaining aspects of the Cold War.

Though the Afghan covert operation originated with Cold Warriors in the Carter administration, especially national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, the war was dramatically ramped up under Reagan, who traded U.S. acquiescence toward Pakistan's nuclear bomb for its help in shipping sophisticated weapons to the Afghan jihadists (including a young Saudi named Osama bin Laden).

While Reagan's acolytes cite the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan as decisive in "winning the Cold War," the counter-argument is that Moscow was already in disarray - and while failure in Afghanistan may have sped the Soviet Union's final collapse - it also created twin dangers for the future of the world: the rise of al-Qaeda terrorism and the nuclear bomb in the hands of Pakistan's unstable Islamic Republic.

Trade-offs elsewhere in the world also damaged long-term U.S. interests. In Latin America, for instance, Reagan's brutal strategy of arming right-wing militaries to crush peasant, student and labor uprisings left the region with a legacy of anti-Americanism that is now resurfacing in the emergence of populist leftist governments.

In Nicaragua, for instance, Sandinista leader Daniel Ortega (whom Reagan once denounced as a "dictator in designer glasses") is now back in power. In El Salvador, the leftist FMLN won the latest elections. Indeed, across the region, hostility to Washington is now the rule, creating openings for China, Iran, Cuba and other American rivals.

In the early 1980s, Reagan also credentialed a young generation of neocon intellectuals, who pioneered a concept called "perception management," the shaping of how Americans saw, understood and were frightened by threats from abroad.

Many honest reporters saw their careers damaged when they resisted the lies and distortions of the Reagan administration. Likewise, U.S. intelligence analysts were purged when they refused to bend to the propaganda demands from above.

To marginalize dissent, Reagan and his subordinates stoked anger toward anyone who challenged the era's feel-good optimism. Skeptics were not just honorable critics, they were un-American defeatists or - in Jeane Kirkpatrick's memorable attack line - they would "blame America first."

Under Reagan, a right-wing infrastructure also took shape, linking media outlets (magazines, newspapers, books, etc.) with well-financed think tanks that churned out endless op-eds and research papers. Plus, there were attack groups that went after mainstream journalists who dared disclose information that poked holes in Reagan's propaganda themes.

In effect, Reagan's team created a faux reality for the American public. Civil wars in Central America between impoverished peasants and wealthy oligarchs became East-West showdowns. U.S.-backed insurgents in Nicaragua, Angola and Afghanistan were transformed from corrupt, brutal (often drug-tainted) thugs into noble "freedom-fighters."

With the Iran-Contra scandal, Reagan also revived Richard Nixon's theory of an imperial presidency that could ignore the nation's laws and evade accountability through criminal cover-ups. That behavior also would rear its head again in the war crimes of George W. Bush.

The American Dream also dimmed during Reagan's tenure.

While he played the role of the nation's kindly grandfather, his operatives divided the American people, using "wedge issues" to deepen grievances especially of white men who were encouraged to see themselves as victims of "reverse discrimination" and "political correctness."

Yet even as working-class white men were rallying to the Republican banner (as so-called "Reagan Democrats"), their economic interests were being savaged. Unions were broken and marginalized; "free trade" policies shipped manufacturing jobs abroad; old neighborhoods were decaying; drug use among the young was soaring.

Meanwhile, unprecedented greed was unleashed on Wall Street, fraying old-fashioned bonds between company owners and employees.

Before Reagan, corporate CEOs earned less than 50 times the salary of an average worker. By the end of the Reagan-Bush-I administrations in 1993, the average CEO salary was more than 100 times that of a typical worker. (At the end of the Bush-II administration, that CEO-salary figure was more than 250 times that of an average worker.)

Many other trends set during the Reagan era continued to corrode the U.S. political process in the years after Reagan left office. After 9/11, for instance, the neocons reemerged as a dominant force, reprising their "perception management" tactics, depicting the "war on terror" - like the last days of the Cold War - as a terrifying conflict between good and evil.

The hyping of the Islamic threat mirrored the neocons' exaggerated depiction of the Soviet menace in the 1980s - and again the propaganda strategy worked. Many Americans let their emotions run wild, from the hunger for revenge after 9/11 to the war fever over invading Iraq.

Arguably, the descent into this dark fantasyland - that Ronald Reagan began in the early 1980s - reached its nadir in the flag-waving early days of the Iraq War. Only gradually did reality begin to reassert itself as the death toll mounted in Iraq and the Katrina disaster reminded Americans why they needed an effective government.

Still, the disasters - set in motion by Ronald Reagan - continued to roll in. Bush's Reagan-esque tax cuts for the rich blew another huge hole in the federal budget and the Reagan-esque anti-regulatory fervor led to a massive financial meltdown that threw the nation into economic chaos.

Despite the grievous harm that Reagan's presidency inflicted on the American Republic and the American people, it may take many more years before a historian has the guts to put this deformed era into a truthful perspective.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ronald-Reagan-Worst-Presi-by-Robert-P
arry-090605-584.html


There's no doubt in my mind that you won't bother to read any of that; I put it up for those younger than I who didn't live through the reign of the guy we called Ray-Guns, the man we knew in California as an actor who played a really good part but who damaged our country immeasurably. Just like Kennedy, people want a "hero"; just like you, Wulf, they'll buy any pig in a poke who looks good and they can fuz up their memories so the next generations believe really WAS a hero.

There are people out there who have heard the fantasy of how great Reagan was who might have their eyes opened one day; if the Republicans, Tea Partiers and neocons have their way, that will never happen. But some of us LIVED THROUGH IT, and won't forget or stay silent.

I was too young to do other than buy into the Kennedy fantasy; but I learned, I got educated, and I see HIS failings too. Neither was a hero, by any means, but you go on thinking Reagan was, because I know no facts will ever disuade you.

Now, without reading any of that, go ahead and post something stupid that is nothing more than . I know facts will always elude you, but I won't let your fantasies stand.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Now, without reading any of that, go ahead and post something stupid that is nothing more than . I know facts will always elude you, but I won't let your fantasies stand"

No no Nix.

I read what you write. I just know the source and know the spin.

Btw... you do know that your boy Bama, has given Tea-Party, Independent, Conservatives, etc all we will ever need for the next 50 years or so.. right?

Not to mention Pelosi and Reid and the rest?

But, by all means tho.. keep the faith.

Im sure the ideals of dependency (and taking handouts) will ONE day fly here.

Really, Im sure that people will one day view government as the solution to ALL their problems.



"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:46 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

I put it up for those younger than I who didn't live through the reign of the guy we called Ray-Guns

I lived though his reign, and I thought he was a bad joke. Just a puppet with big ideas, and no real (legal, anyway) way to get them done.
He was a pretty good terrorism enabler though.
But he never lied. He didn't know enough of what was really happening to do that. He was the first really big 'plausible deniability' President.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:19 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

------------------------------------------------
Wow Kwick, I didn't realize you hated Obama so much.





My God son, are you capable of a response more intelligent than a youtube clip or "No, you are. Nyah!"

I doubt it, but please, prove me wrong.

Hell, the first line shows how ignorant you are of simple facts - as taxes were higher under Reagan than Obama you blithering nitwit.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 9:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I read what you write. I just know the source and know the spin.

Yup, just like I said, "go ahead and post something stupid that is nothing more than ." You say you read what I wrote; an easy way of not admitting you read the facts I POSTED. You don’t like the source, so nothing there can possibly be true. Then show me some FACTS otherwise. Show me how any of that is untrue—with facts. Show me how Reaganomics IMPROVED our country’s economy. All you did was “neener, neener”, you made no attempt to refute anything I posted. Which is normal, I realize; unlike I or others, you’re quite happy to make blanket statements with nothing behind them, to parrot talking points you heard somewhere else, but gawd forbid you should actually put up something of substance to refute anyone’s point.

Obama isn’t “my boy”, despite you and your friends consistently claiming he was, and this has nothing to do with Obama anyway. It’s about REAGAN, nobody else. Cracks about dependency and the government also have nothing to do with the issue, the issue is REAGAN.

That’s all you ever seem able to do; post snarks which have no basis in fact and stick your tongue out in the silliest ways to anyone you disagree with.

That’s okay, there are those here who might actually benefit from knowing some truths about the “great” man; they’re the ones I’m talking to. You’re definitely not worth it.

Chris was there, and yes, we thought he was a joke, too, which is why we were so astonished he was elected. We KNEW better; he was our governor...we saw all that needed seeing. And thank you Story, I THOUGHT taxes were higher under Reagan, but I’d spent enough time searching and posting to bother with more. No, Story, he’s not capable of anything else, we’ve all learned that by now. He's a simple, blind, close-minded person incapable of rising above that level, sadly. There are too many of him in America today, and we're paying the price.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:04 AM

DREAMTROVE


Chris

A pretty good analysis of Reagan. As time goes by, I realize most of the bad of Reagan came from Bush, Cheney and Rummy, and even Wolfowitz and Perle, acting behind the scenes. Most of the good came from Thatcher, but it couldn't be implemented here without major corporate corruption.

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 10:16 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
As time goes by, I realize most of the bad of Reagan came from Bush, Cheney and Rummy, and even Wolfowitz and Perle, acting behind the scenes.

Reagan WANTED to do the right thing, he just didn't really know what that was. So he delegated. And didn't care for the details.

Jeeze, he got on TV and pleaded the case for the 'rebels' in Nicaragua, likening them to the good guys in Star Wars... I was stunned. He clearly meant every word, but even back then I knew these guys were just terrorists trying hard for a coup, with our CIA DRUG money financing them, no less.
How does a schlepp like me KNOW MORE THAN THE FRIKKIN' PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.????

"Just get it done, Ollie."


That's how.

Plus alternative radio (WBAI, NY)


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, hell, you could say that about a thousand things every day, and replace "President" with any number of titles, as well. It's always mystified me, and if anyone figures it out, PLEASE let us know, how things which are so easily obvious to us peons can seem so unimaginable to those in power. Yes, in some cases I know it's short-sightedness, and in others power for personal gain, to hell with the outcome, but still...

I have always believed Reagan meant well, I would never argue that. I just think he was completely out of his league...he actually had something in common with Wulf, in that his Hollywood background had seemingly somehow convinced him that the world WAS black and white, that he COULD ride in on a white charger and save the day, and that he could do it by letting others tell him what was right 'cuz they were the Good Guys.

Reagan was a good man in many ways, but then that could be said of many Presidents who people demonize and want to believe are evil. For me, it's the SYSTEM that's evil, the way it puts power in a few hands and the way it lets selfish people manipulate the government.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:26 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I read what you write. I just know the source and know the spin.

Yup, just like I said, "go ahead and post something stupid that is nothing more than ." You say you read what I wrote; an easy way of not admitting you read the facts I POSTED. You don’t like the source, so nothing there can possibly be true. Then show me some FACTS otherwise.



When someone bases all their views off impotent rage like Wulfie, facts are not welcome.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:29 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Reagan was a good man in many ways, but then that could be said of many Presidents who people demonize and want to believe are evil. For me, it's the SYSTEM that's evil, the way it puts power in a few hands and the way it lets selfish people manipulate the government.



Well put, however, I'd say the PERVERSION of the system is evil. However could the Founding Fathers have foreseen all the myriad legal loopholes & extra-Constitutional activities that have evolved in the centuries that have passed???


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Read the Antifederalist papers, Chris.

All of em, Pat Henry in particular, pointed out every bit of that shit well in advance and Hamilton, Madison, Adams and Jay all brushed it off, under the pretense that no one would ever dare stoop so low...

All the while planning to do intentionally and exactly that, and having planted those legal loopholes for the explict purpose thereof.

So, far as the Constitution goes, some of the folks behind it, this WAS their intent.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:52 AM

CHRISISALL


HOLY FUCKING SHIT.



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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Case in point, from BRUTUS 1
http://www.constitution.org/afp/brutus01.htm
Quote:

The judicial power of the United States is to be vested in a supreme court, and in such inferior courts as Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The powers of these courts are very extensive; their jurisdiction comprehends all civil causes, except such as arise between citizens of the same state; and it extends to all cases in law and equity arising under the constitution. One inferior court must be established, I presume, in each state, at least, with the necessary executive officers appendant thereto. It is easy to see, that in the common course of things, these courts will eclipse the dignity, and take away from the respectability, of the state courts. These courts will be, in themselves, totally independent of the states, deriving their authority from the United States, and receiving from them fixed salaries; and in the course of human events it is to be expected, that they will swallow up all the powers of the courts in the respective states.

How far the clause in the 8th section of the 1st article may operate to do away all idea of confederated states, and to effect an entire consolidation of the whole into one general government, it is impossible to say. The powers given by this article are very general and comprehensive, and it may receive a construction to justify the passing almost any law. A power to make all laws, which shall be necessary and proper, for carrying into execution, all powers vested by the constitution in the government of the United States, or any department or officer thereof, is a power very comprehensive and definite [indefinite?], and may, for ought I know, be exercised in a such manner as entirely to abolish the state legislatures. Suppose the legislature of a state should pass a law to raise money to support their government and pay the state debt, may the Congress repeal this law, because it may prevent the collection of a tax which they may think proper and necessary to lay, to provide for the general welfare of the United States? For all laws made, in pursuance of this constitution, are the supreme lay of the land, and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the constitution or laws of the different states to the contrary notwithstanding. — By such a law, the government of a particular state might be overturned at one stroke, and thereby be deprived of every means of its support.


Believe me, Chris, they saw it coming, tried to prevent it, and at least warn us - the Bill of Rights was in fact, added to the Consitution to pacify them enough to get it passed, and consider where we would be now without it ?

Every time you think of the eight hour workday, forty hour week, overtime, freedom of speech, religion, to arm yourself, all the tiny little social and other freedoms you have...

Make sure to thank those "damn dirty commie socialist union anarchist terrorist bastards" who bought it for you with, often as not, their own blood, by the bucket - all the while the FedGov pretends they and their minions handed it to you as an act of benevolence.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA


And from BRUTUS 12-1
http://www.constitution.org/afp/brutus12.htm#01
Quote:

The first object declared to be in view is, "To form a perfect union." It is to be observed, it is not an union of states or bodies corporate; had this been the case the existence of the state governments, might have been secured. But it is a union of the people of the United States considered as one body, who are to ratify this constitution, if it is adopted. Now to make a union of this kind perfect, it is necessary to abolish all inferior governments, and to give the general one compleat legislative, executive and judicial powers to every purpose. The courts therefore will establish it as a rule in explaining the constitution to give it such a construction as will best tend to perfect the union or take from the state governments every power of either making or executing laws. The second object is "to establish justice." This must include not only the idea of instituting the rule of justice, or of making laws which shall be the measure or rule of right, but also of providing for the application of this rule or of administering justice under it. And under this the courts will in their decisions extend the power of the government to all cases they possibly can, or otherwise they will be restricted in doing what appears to be the intent of the constitution they should do, to wit, pass laws and provide for the execution of them, for the general distribution of justice between man and man. Another end declared is "to insure domestic tranquility." This comprehends a provision against all private breaches of the peace, as well as against all public commotions or general insurrections; and to attain the object of this clause fully, the government must exercise the power of passing laws on these subjects, as well as of appointing magistrates with authority to execute them. And the courts will adopt these ideas in their expositions. I might proceed to the other clause, in the preamble, and it would appear by a consideration of all of them separately, as it does by taking them together, that if the spirit of this system is to be known from its declared end and design in the preamble, its spirit is to subvert and abolish all the powers of the state government, and to embrace every object to which any government extends.

The stated intent, right up front and obvious.

ETA: But the real bombdropper was just HOW RIGHT ole Pat Henry was, to a degree bordering on downright prophecy, when he tore into it himself that June - mind you, this was right then and there, before the ink was even dry, he KNEW what would result, and was almost universally ignored or scoffed at...
http://www.constitution.org/afp/phenry00.htm

Save some time for those, heavy reading, but well worth it - oh, and for a fact, quoting them drives public school history teachers into apocalyptic fits, as I well know.

-F

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:08 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Every time you think of the eight hour workday, forty hour week, overtime, freedom of speech, religion, to arm yourself, all the tiny little social and other freedoms you have..."

I thank every free-thinking American.

I thank every service-person who put themselves on the line to preserve those freedoms.

I thank the Founders.


But thats me.



"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:18 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I thank every service-person who put themselves on the line to preserve those freedoms.


You mean like the ones who DROPPED BOMBS ON *my* ancestors who put themselves on the line, while the army fought side by side with the corporate goons and strikebreakers to stomp them ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

Who stomped their own precursors into the ground when they took issue with being discarded like used kleenexes after they did their part to crush freedom ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
Mind you, this is where the "Heroic" Patton and MacArthur made their bones as officers, beating the shit out of veterans and their families who'd been screwed over.

Or those who propped up dictators for american corporate exploitation ?
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

Or how bout those urban pacifiers just waiting to stomp YOU into the ground, at the behest of the next Bush *or* Obama and whatever the fuck their agenda is, yanno, the Dirty 3rd unit deployed to "Homeland Security" - and we all know full and well that lip service aside, the Troops are NOT your friends when things get nasty, or did you NOT see just as well as I did when the 82nd fucking airborne went around helping cops disarm the citizenry while leaving them at the mercy of ravagers and looters ?

Support the troops my ass, they put on the jackboot, they zipped it up, all else follows as a natural consquence of their own behavior - without which, without those useful morons "just following orders.." - tyranny cannot occur.

But they DO, just follow orders, don't they ?

FUCK "The Troops" - you take the kings shilling, and you are the kings man, and thus, no friend of mine.

-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:22 PM

CHRISISALL


I thank Frem, for the much-needed history lesson, one which it seems I was absent for the DAY they taught it in High School.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:25 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

I thank every free-thinking American.


Then PLEASE, BE one of them. Stop with the worship. See the faults in ANY venue, even your own.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:33 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg




"I got no strings, so I have fun
I'm not tied up when we need one
They've got strings but you can see
There are no strings on me!"

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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:33 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Then PLEASE, BE one of them. Stop with the worship. See the faults in ANY venue, even your own.

Good one, Chris...hey, you're allowed to dream!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:36 PM

CHRISISALL


Like the lawyer said, I try.



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Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Really, Im sure that people will one day view government as the solution to ALL their problems.





One day? Hell, you already view it that way. You've convinced yourself that your tea-bagging idols are going to change EVERYTHING for you, overnight and as if by magic.

Imagine how disappointed you'll be when that doesn't happen...


The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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