Probe of Lead in Reusable Grocery Bags? by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Probe of Lead in Reusable Grocery Bags?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 07:53
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Sunday, November 14, 2010 9:56 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

My gawd; try to be a responsible consumer and look what you get!

Quote:
Sen. Charles Schumer of New York is seeking a federal investigation after a newspaper's report of lead content in some reusable grocery bags.

The Democrat told The Associated Press that many of the reusable grocery bags sold nationwide are manufactured in China. Schumer plans to announce Sunday that he is contacting the Food and Drug Administration, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

There is less concern that the lead would easily rub off on food when the bags are new, but there is a concern that as bags wear down lead could accumulate in landfills, creating a potential environmental hazard.

Last week, the Tampa Tribune found some bags had lead levels that concerned health officials.

The Tribune found that lead appears to be in a form that's not easily extracted or "leached" out. But over time, lab experts note, the bags wear down and paint can flake off.

When our families go to the grocery store looking for safe and healthy foods to feed their kids, the last thing they should have to worry about are toxic bags," Schumer said in a statement.

Schumer commended Wegmans supermarket company that operates in New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Virginia and Maryland for announcing in September that the groceries would stop selling certain reusable shopping bags because of the concern.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12143990

Shees, we just can't win for losing, can we???

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:00 AM

CANTTAKESKY

We just need to stop making bags in China.

Seriously, when are we going to realize that outsourcing factory work to China is going to cost us more in the long run in the form of greater environmental damage?

----
I've given in to my inner arrogant ass.

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Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

In answer to your question: Probably never. It's the profit-makers who like outsourcing to China's cheap labor, and they don't care about the environmental results, so...

Of course, gawd forbid the government should step in and...uh...LEGISLATE it...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:53 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
We just need to stop making bags in China.

Seriously, when are we going to realize that outsourcing factory work to China is going to cost us more in the long run in the form of greater environmental damage?

----
I've given in to my inner arrogant ass.

That's what they want you to think.

Okay, this time, I'm not kidding. I think it's a low level risk, but it's a risk, and there's a simple solution: get China to move off of lead based paint to zinc or one of the other common whites. But specifically to a limited list.

We still sell bismuth based foundation. Any women wear makeup? Check this stuff out, see if it's in yours. Bismuth is its own element, but for all practical purposes, chemically, it is radioactive lead. Bismuth replaced lead for the white, and Bismuth oxychloride is used for that special sheen that says "Wow, I can haz a Darwin award?"

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Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:55 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
In answer to your question: Probably never. It's the profit-makers who like outsourcing to China's cheap labor, and they don't care about the environmental results, so...

Of course, gawd forbid the government should step in and...uh...LEGISLATE it...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

Niki

The govt. should step in, but not this govt. The govt. of China. Remember, the US used lead based paint for centuries, and still it probably represents most of the mass of paint in america. Since it was the white, and every color was mixed with white, and it was applied to the inside and outside of every building in america, you have to figure there's millions of tons of it still out there.

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Sunday, November 14, 2010 5:03 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
... there's a simple solution: get China to move off of lead based paint to zinc or one of the other common whites. But specifically to a limited list.

I'd just rather not trust China. Really.

Remember this story?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101110/ap_on_he_me/as_china_tainted_milk_
trial

Quote:
Wed Nov 10, 11:05 am ET
BEIJING – A father who organized a support group for other parents whose children were sickened in one of China's worst food safety scandals was convicted and sentenced Wednesday to 2 1/2 years in prison for inciting social disorder, his lawyer said.

Quote:
Any women wear makeup?

Not me. LOL I'm arrogant AND ugly.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Monday, November 15, 2010 12:17 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually it's mostly Titanium Chloride they replaced it with these days, DT...

Only reason I know that is cause I used to work security a long time ago for one of the main chemical plants which produce it, and you don't even wanna KNOW how much that place dumped into the environment, one of my duties was disposing of the dead birds which'd tried to fly over the plant before anyone saw em and started askin questions about air quality.

For more "fun", google Titanium Tetrachloride and realize the neighborhood I lived in was downwind of the fuckin place.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, November 15, 2010 8:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

DT: I agree with you about which government, but I agree with CTTS that we can't trust the Chinese government to act in ANYONE's best interest. We could MAKE them, to a point, if we had stringent testing on virtually EVERYTHING we import from them, but that's not feasible in my view.

Personally, I'd rather see less outsourcing, less importing and more effective testing of whatever DOES come from them. CTTS is right; they won't voluntarily (at this point in time) put anyone's wellbeing over profit.

Aside from which, it is our OWN citizens who suffer; ergo it is OUR government's buiness to protect us, not China's. Are you seriously saying we should look to China to solve a problem we recognize and want to change here? Their job is THEIR citizens...that they don't give a flying fuck about their citizens isn't our government's responsibility.

DT, exactly how do you propose getting China to move off lead-based paints? As long as they make a profit exporting to us, and don't give a shit about their own population OR ours (possibly, aside from their control over their citizens, because they've got "people to spare"...), they'll do whatever increases profits. Given those parameters, how long do you think it will be before they have enough incentive to stop using lead?

I, too, think it's a minor risk, it just pisses me off.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, November 15, 2010 8:23 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Or look at this story from 2007:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html

Quote:
Toxic syrup has figured in at least eight mass poisonings around the world in the past two decades. Researchers estimate that thousands have died. In many cases, the precise origin of the poison has never been determined. But records and interviews show that in three of the last four cases it was made in China, a major source of counterfeit drugs.

It's not just the lead paint, or the melamine, or the toxic syrup. It is a PATTERN of negligence and fraud in that country.

We need to start making our own shit. Really, for both safety and economic reasons.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Monday, November 15, 2010 8:32 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"We need to start making our own shit. Really, for both safety and economic reasons."

Well goodness, you are right.

Except the cost of starting,operating and owning a business in our home make the cost of things astronomical.

Maybe if there wern't so many taxes on business here, we could do it.

Im not saying we resort to no minimum wage, child labor, pollution, or any of the other horrors Im sure to be snarked with....

Just that business (and small business) should be encourgaed.

Hell, I think that should be a new incentive. "Open a new business, follow the just and humane laws, and NEVER HAVE TO PAY ANY TAXES AGAIN".

Of course, an added incentive would be: "If your business fails, for whatever reason (except government intervention), youll have to start paying taxes again..."

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Monday, November 15, 2010 9:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

CTTS:

Quote:
We need to start making our own shit. Really, for both safety and economic reasons.

Right on.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:23 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Just that business (and small business) should be encourgaed.

I agree absolutely. If we want to start making our own shit, small business has to be encouraged with less taxes, less bureaucracy (zoning laws? really?), less fees and licenses and "inspections."

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against "inspections." But they are much more onerous on small businesses than big ones. Now I am be wrong here, but as I understand it, the big businesses don't really even get inspected that much--so the burden of such bureaucracies falls largely on small businesses. There is very little competition against the big companies, because few people can afford to start a small business.

In many other countries, businesses are mostly family-owned. There are very few chains. You look in the USA, and almost everything is a franchise of a large brand-name company. The Mom-and-Pop business are an endangered species, crushed by corporations and laws that only corporations can afford.

So I propose we de-regulate small business. Cut the red tape and give the little guy a chance. Let people sell stuff to the public from their homes. Let inventors invent shit in their garages. Let kids sell lemonade on the sidewalks again. Let them do it without having to pay taxes up to a certain point.

All that to say, there is a reason why we DON'T make our own shit. We need to address those reasons. It's not JUST profit. We have some serious problems with our system.

Quote:
Hell, I think that should be a new incentive. "Open a new business, follow the just and humane laws, and NEVER HAVE TO PAY ANY TAXES AGAIN".

I like that. (Of course, I like abolishing all income taxes entirely.)

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just to remind that "small business" is often a misnomer, with businesses calling themselves "small" who are actually ginormous. "Small business" refers to ownership, not employees or revenues.

Something to remember when Republicans and Democrats both talk about "small businesses":

Quote:
Repbublicans claim that any pass-through tax entity (S Corp, Partnership, Sole Proprietor) is a small business. Eighty-nine percent of taxpayers earning over $10 million file as S Corps. Bechtel, Fidelity Investments, Koch Industries and Price Waterhouse file as S corps. How small are they?

http://www.hidesertstar.com/articles/2010/10/09/editorial/doc4cb00f301
52ff544437219.txt "small" businesses that Republican lawmakers say will suffer if the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy expire are not so small after all:

Bechtel: $31 billion last year
Ferrellgas: $2 billion
McIlhenny: $250 million

The Republican "small business" designation would apply even to individuals with no employees at all. It could include actors, athletes and authors -- even President Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/23/olbermann-small-business_n_73
6418.html

Yeah, it's Huffpost; googling brought up so much stuff about small businesses this is the only one I could find on point in a short search. It doesn't change the fact at all that those companies made billions and are still considered "small businesses".

We had a thread about that a while back, but I'm just as lazy about searching for that to list other "small" big businesses; the point is that a lot of businesses which make TONS are still considered "small businesses"...something to keep in mind when politicians bandy the term about.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 10:57 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Just to remind that "small business" is often a misnomer, with businesses calling themselves "small" who are actually ginormous.

Well, you know what I mean by small business. Obviously, if we reform "small business" legislation, we would need to reform the definition of "small business."

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:04 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
if we reform "small business" legislation, we would need to reform the definition of "small business."

Don't I WISH!!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 6:23 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Niki,

This is what I mean about bureaucracy crushing small business.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201011150328

Quote:
NEW CASTLE — When Andrew DeMarchis and Kevin Graff, two 13-year-olds from Chappaqua's Seven Bridges Middle School, set up shop at Gedney Park on a fall weekend last month, they were expecting a tidy profit.

Instead, the two wannabe entrepreneurs selling cupcakes, cookies, brownies and Rice Krispie treats baked by them for $1 apiece got a taste of cold, hard bureaucracy .

New Castle Councilman Michael Wolfensohn came upon the sale and called the cops on the kids for operating without a license.

And how much did the license cost?

Quote:
While a New Castle parks use permit requires a $1 million certificate of insurance and a fee ranging from $150 to $350 per two hours, New Castle Recreation and Parks Superintendent Robert Snyder said permits are given on a "case-by-case basis."

There is no way those kids can afford that. They weren't stealing or being a nuisance. This used to be the backbone of America, the entrepreneurial self-reliant spirit. It's been crushed out of us. And did the guy have to call the cops? Really? On kids? Asshole.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:42 AM

DREAMTROVE

Oh, ain't the American free market grand? Sure glad no govt. regulation is interfering with that.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:42 AM

KANEMAN

I have a feeling those slant eyed cocksuckers are trying to kill us nice and slow. The only thing that Chinaman government ever did that was worth anything was killing those future prostitutes we call chinagirls.....Do they still sanction that? I hope so. Nothing as useless as a small titted whore.....

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

CTTS, I understand what you’re saying; I was just reminding us that our concept of “small business” is something which is used differently than we intend. As to the specific instance, it’s absolutely asinine; lay that on the Councilman, who is obviously an ass. It’s a difficult problem; laws are intended (or should be) to deal with abusers; unfortunately, they’re open to interpretation by any asshat who wants to use them. It’s terribly wrong. We SHOULD have a delineation for “small business” which means ACTUALLY “small” universally, obviously, and that councilman should be voted out for his idiocy.

Ineed to keep reminding myself that when politicians say "small business", that IS a code word for the actually LARGE businesses they want us to think of as small; it's a lie, and I point it out and try to remember it myself when I hear them spout it. That's all.

Kane, as usual, has nothing of any substance to offer; I wonder if he thinks he's being amusing or something? Rhetorical question.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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