REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

How to Honor Ronald Reagan

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 08:31
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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 5:47 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/11/22/frum.honoring.reagan/index.html?
hpt=Sbin


Hello,

I saw this article and was surprised. First, I was surprised that he needs a special commemoration. Second, I was surprised that the massive war machine named in his honor was not a sufficient remembrance. Nor, presumably, the library he was allowed to create upon his retirement.

Do we honor all presidents with special monuments on their 100th birthdays?

--Anthony





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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 7:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Communism is its own pathetic legacy. Better to teach all of its colossal failures & attack on the spirit of free peoples of the world than to erect yet another temple of marble , glass and steel.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Would such a statue or monument be made in China?

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


We *could* honor Reagan by restoring the income tax rates to where they were during his presidency. After all, if those were such great days for our economy, surely the tax rates played a huge role in that greatness!

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:14 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Would such a statue or monument be made in China?












"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:19 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


I like Mr. Frum's idea.

Quote:

Let me suggest something: A museum in Washington dedicated to the victims of communism.

The struggle against communism impelled American foreign policy for almost half a century. That struggle was also the central concern of Ronald Reagan's political life. As much as Reagan cared about the geopolitics of the struggle, he cared even more about the human victims of communism's brutal totalitarian ideology.

The countries of Eastern Europe are now memorializing their terrible experiences under communism.

A particularly impressive museum has opened in Budapest, Hungary. But Eastern Europe did not suffer alone. Cambodia, China, Cuba, Ethiopia and Afghanistan also have their stories to tell.

A "Ronald Reagan Museum of the Victims of Communism" in Washington would ensure that these stories were kept alive and made vivid for future generations.

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington offers an outstanding example to emulate.

The Holocaust Museum has emerged as one of Washington's most-visited sites. It offers a message that is purposeful as well as mournful. It's a message propounded from the National Archives to the Lincoln Memorial -- and a message to which Ronald Reagan devoted his political life:

The principles on which the United States is built are not mere preferences. Reject those principles, and you are embarking on a nightmare that can culminate in the ultimate horrors of human injustice, oppression, cruelty and violence.

As yet, the crimes of communism are appallingly minimized, excused or even condoned in the places where they were ordered, places such as Moscow, Havana, Beijing and Hanoi. Earlier this year, I had the chance to visit the one and only public remembrance of the Cultural Revolution in all China, a small museum in a park on the outskirts of a provincial city.

What could be more fitting than to remember those crimes in the city that we called the capital of the free world during the struggle against communism? And in the name of the president who not only spoke so eloquently against those crimes, but who issued the challenge that presaged communism's downfall?

So there's my proposal for the new Congress. Introduce a bill to authorize the development of the museum on February 6, with a view to completing work in time for Reagan's 110th birthday in 2021. Instead of a statue, remember this president who so valued the individual with a monument that will restore the individuality of wronged, imprisoned and murdered millions.





"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I find the whole 'struggle against communism' and the 'crimes of communism' and the 'victims of communism' to be somewhat disingenuous. We were not struggling against a philosophy of economics and governance. We were struggling against a league of countries that we believed posed a threat to us. These countries could have been a league of monarchies just as easily. Or theocracies. Or totalitarian regimes or cruel dictatorships. *clears throat at Cuba*

Functionally, I don't think our struggle against Communism would have been very different if the Communists were all Nazis, would it? The red menace could have been the gray menace. Communism is just a paint-job used to cover something else.

In the midst of our struggle against communism, we had our own struggles at home. Mccarthyism clearly demonstrated our fine capacity, as a Nation that operated on principles far from communism, to become beastly. In fact, I'd say that any monument to the 'victims of Communism' would have to include communists and accused communists from within our own borders, who may not have been slain- but were definitely victimized by us for being associated with a hated philosophy.

In a few decades, when we erect a monument to the Victims of Terrorism, I'd hate to see how tall and wide that wall will have to be to accommodate all the names. More appalling will be to see how many of the Terrorists who victimized people were U.S.

--Anthony

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:04 AM

CHRISISALL






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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

AnthonyT wrote:
Tuesday, November 23, 2010 09:55
Hello,

I find the whole 'struggle against communism' and the 'crimes of communism' and the 'victims of communism' to be somewhat disingenuous.



Try telling the folks in Poland and other Eastern block nations all about that. I'm sure they'd love hearing your point of view on this matter.


Chrissy - Obama doesn't need a statue.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Try telling the folks in Poland and other Eastern block nations all about that. I'm sure they'd love hearing your point of view on this matter."

Hello,

Try telling those who suffer under dictators and opressive regimes that it is not bad men who covet power who hurt them. It is not government psychopaths with clubs who abuse them. They are not the victims of cowardly and selfish men who fear to lose their control over others. Rather, it is a philosophy that oppresses them.

It is sure to come as a startling revelation: If Castro was a King instead of a Communist, Cuba would be a paradise.

--Anthony

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:57 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg




"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:03 AM

JONGSSTRAW


The Turnpike in Florida is called the Ronald Reagan Turnpike. Everything here is named after somebody. His 8 years were pretty good times, but I do not put him up so high on a pedestal as many Conservatives do. In hindsight, the breakup of the Soviet Union has not turned out very well for America or the world. Back then, all the maniacs in the world were aligned with Russia, and Russia kept them in check as part of the delicate balance with America. There were at least some rules back then. Now there are no rules, and Russia is democratic, and civilization is threatened by rogue nuclear states and terrorists. I'll take the 'ole Cold War anyday.





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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:21 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Chrissy - Obama doesn't need a statue.




LOL... Go ahead, tell us again that you're not racist.

Always good for a laugh.

As to the topic at hand - Yeah, lets go with Reagan era tax rates. He is the hallowed one to conservatives, they should get right behind that.

Otherwise, I'd suggest a Jelly Bean museum.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Chrissy - Obama doesn't need a statue.




LOL... Go ahead, tell us again that you're not racist.

Always good for a laugh.



Chrissy posts a pic, and it's not racsit.

I make a comment on the pic HE posted, and it's some how racist ?

How so ? Please, explain that one to the audience.

Seriously, think before you post.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:54 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I think Story had issue with the idea that an Obama statue would be of a monkey...

Although, I think the picture was mean to convey something else.

Besides, why do we keep disrespecting monkeys by comparing them to black folks?



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 1:19 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I find the whole 'struggle against communism' and the 'crimes of communism' and the 'victims of communism' to be somewhat disingenuous. We were not struggling against a philosophy of economics and governance. We were struggling against a league of countries that we believed posed a threat to us.



However, the countries that we did struggle against were, or at least claimed to be, governments based on Communist ideology. They used this ideology to rationalize horrible crimes against their own people, and people in states they conquered. The few places that remain nominally Communist are uniformly sinkholes of corruption, and poverty and oppression for those not connected through family or money to the government.

Quote:

Functionally, I don't think our struggle against Communism would have been very different if the Communists were all Nazis, would it? The red menace could have been the gray menace. Communism is just a paint-job used to cover something else.

And the Holocaust Museum would be the same if it was the Swiss Chocolatiers who committed the Holocaust, but it was the Nazis and the world recognizes that.

Quote:

In the midst of our struggle against communism, we had our own struggles at home. Mccarthyism clearly demonstrated our fine capacity, as a Nation that operated on principles far from communism, to become beastly.

Conflating the folks who lost careers to the Red Scare to the tens of millions who died as a direct action of their own governments - now that seems a bit disingenuous to me.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 1:56 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Conflating the folks who lost careers to the Red Scare to the tens of millions who died as a direct action of their own governments - now that seems a bit disingenuous to me."

Hello,

The wound is different, but the Monster is the same. When Stalin slew a hefty percentage of his population, the Monster was not Communism. When Vlad the Impaler put people on pikes, the Monster was not Christianity.

Their Monster then is the same as our Monster now. It is the same Monster it has always been. The Monster that Mccarthy was is the Monster that Hitler was, even if one was more successful than the other. Painting it Red means we get to say the Monster isn't Blue. Calling it Communism means we get to say the Monster doesn't exist in a Democracy.

And tallying up the death toll based on 'Communism' and putting it on a wall means we get to say it's over.

It's not Communism. It's not Over. We're not Safe.

The problem isn't one man, or one political party, or one government, or even several.

If we keep labeling things that way, we'll keep falling into the same pit every time someone decides to call it something new.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


As long as Cuba and China still claim to be communist countries, Reagan will be forever a failure in his "struggles".

I mean, if you're going to put up a monument to him and claim it's all about his defeat of communism, you'd be lying, since he didn't.

This Space For Rent!

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Tuesday, November 23, 2010 4:50 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Oh, and by the way, "we" (as a nation) don't seem the least bit interested in "struggling" against the communist Chinese, do we? Nope. As long as they're stamping out cheap trash and trinkets for us to buy at WalMart, we're only too happy to keep giving them our money, and then borrowing it back.

Looks like in the epic struggle, communism won.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 8:31 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Lookin down the wrong end of the telescope, as usual...

America for the most part hasn't been so much anti-communist, as they've been pro-facist.

Remember, we supported Franco, and Stalin, and Pinochet, Papa Doc, The Shah, Noriega, Saddam, the list goes on, and on, and on...

The first "red scare" was in fact having much more to do with the corp-gov alliance trying to break down resistance to their warfare-welfare, and corporate dominion from the alliance of communists, socialists, unionists and anarchists - most of whom simply wanted the fair shake they never got, and paid dearly in blood for every single benefit you get from the corpies, not that american "history" even acknowledges this.

The latter alliance came to pieces in catalonia when the socialists and communists decided to throw in with Stalin and showed their true colors, which is why anarchists no longer trust them and in fact hate them bitterly - you'll notice that the banners of the time were black and red, and now they are solid black, yes ?

So this whole "communism as a threat" thing is bullshit and always was, just the excuse of the time to keep up the booga-booga and feed the warfare-welfare machine.

But there's a LOT of truth to the statement that america is, and always was, extremely pro-fascist.

So you oughta think about it a bit, cause torching the castle to protect it is a damn bad idea, you ask me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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