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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Afghan women and the Taliban - please take the time to read
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 11:49 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Our cover image this week is powerful, shocking and disturbing. It is a portrait of Aisha, a shy 18-year-old Afghan woman who was sentenced by a Taliban commander to have her nose and ears cut off for fleeing her abusive in-laws. Aisha posed for the picture and says she wants the world to see the effect a Taliban resurgence would have on the women of Afghanistan, many of whom have flourished in the past few years. Her picture is accompanied by a powerful story on how Afghan women have embraced the freedoms that have come from the defeat of the Taliban — and how they fear a Taliban revival. I thought long and hard about whether to put this image on the cover of TIME. First, I wanted to make sure of Aisha's safety and that she understood what it would mean to be on the cover. She knows that she will become a symbol of the price Afghan women have had to pay for the repressive ideology of the Taliban. We also confirmed that she is in a secret location protected by armed guards and sponsored by the NGO Women for Afghan Women. Aisha will head to the U.S. for reconstructive surgery sponsored by the Grossman Burn Foundation, a humanitarian organization in California. We are supporting that effort. I'm acutely aware that this image will be seen by children, who will undoubtedly find it distressing. I apologize to readers who find the image too strong, and I invite you to comment on the image's impact. But bad things do happen to people, and it is part of our job to confront and explain them. In the end, I felt that the image is a window into the reality of what is happening — and what can happen — in a war that affects and involves all of us. I would rather confront readers with the Taliban's treatment of women than ignore it. I would rather people know that reality as they make up their minds about what the U.S. and its allies should do in Afghanistan. We do not run this story or show this image either in support of the U.S. war effort or in opposition to it. We do it to illuminate what is actually happening on the ground. As lawmakers and citizens begin to sort through the Wikileaks information about the war and make up their minds, our job is to provide context and perspective on one of the most difficult foreign policy issues of our time. What you see in these pictures and our story is something that you cannot find in those 91,000 documents: a combination of emotional truth and insight into the way life is lived in that difficult land and the consequences of the important decisions that lie ahead.
Quote:The Taliban pounded on the door just before midnight, demanding that Aisha, 18, be punished for running away from her husband's house. They dragged her to a mountain clearing near her village in the southern Afghan province of Uruzgan, ignoring her protests that her in-laws had been abusive, that she had no choice but to escape. Shivering in the cold air and blinded by the flashlights trained on her by her husband's family, she faced her spouse and accuser. Her in-laws treated her like a slave, Aisha pleaded. They beat her. If she hadn't run away, she would have died. Her judge, a local Taliban commander, was unmoved. Later, he would tell Aisha's uncle that she had to be made an example of lest other girls in the village try to do the same thing. The commander gave his verdict, and men moved in to deliver the punishment. Aisha's brother-in-law held her down while her husband pulled out a knife. First he sliced off her ears. Then he started on her nose. Aisha passed out from the pain but awoke soon after, choking on her own blood. The men had left her on the mountainside to die. This didn't happen 10 years ago, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. It happened last year. Now hidden in a secret women's shelter in the relative safety of Kabul, where she was taken after receiving care from U.S. forces, Aisha recounts her tale in a monotone, her eyes flat and distant. She listens obsessively to the news on a small radio that she keeps by her side. Talk that the Afghan government is considering some kind of political accommodation with the Taliban is the only thing that elicits an emotional response. "They are the people that did this to me," she says, touching the jagged bridge of scarred flesh and bone that frames the gaping hole in an otherwise beautiful face. "How can we reconcile with them?" That is exactly what the Afghan government plans to do. In June, President Hamid Karzai established a peace council tasked with exploring negotiations with Afghanistan's "upset brothers," as he calls the Taliban. A month later, Tom Malinowski, the Washington advocacy director for Human Rights Watch, a New York — based NGO, flew to Kabul seeking assurances that human rights would be protected in the course of negotiations. During their conversation, Karzai mused on the cost of the conflict in human lives and wondered aloud if he had any right to talk about human rights when so many were dying. "He essentially asked me," says Malinowski, "What is more important, protecting the right of a girl to go to school or saving her life?" How Karzai and his international allies answer that question will have far-reaching consequences. Aisha has no doubt. "The Taliban are not good people," she says. "If they come back, the situation will be worse for everyone." But for others, the rights of Afghan women are only one aspect of a complex situation. How that situation will eventually be ordered remains unclear.
Quote: Fawzia Koofi The former deputy speaker of parliament, Koofi is very outspoken on women's issues. "Reconciliation will not bring peace to Afghanistan," she says. "Peace is a result of democracy. You have to include everyone in that process, including women." She is running for a second term in parliament but fears that new election rules may make it more difficult to succeed and that outspoken women like her will be sidelined. Robina Muqimyar Jalalai In 2004, Muqimyar was one of Afghanistan's first two female representatives at the Olympics. She is now running for parliament Sabrina Saqib Saqib, Afghanistan's youngest parliamentarian, says having women in parliament was a huge step forward. "Women came back to life after the Taliban." Mozhdah Jamalzadah Part Oprah, part Hannah Montana, The Mozhdah Show, hosted by Jamalzadah, is the latest sensation to hit Afghanistan's television screens. Mahbooba Seraj Women gather at a training conference for parliamentarians. "Women have just as much a right to take part in leading Afghanistan now as they did then," says Seraj, standing, referring to historical female heroes in Afghanistan. "We must not compare women in Afghanistan to women in France or Sweden. We have to compare women now to women in 2001. And we have made huge progress." Sakina When Sakina was 14, her family sold her into marriage with a 45-year-old man who had a carpet-weaving business. "I didn't know about marriage," she says. "I didn't know about relations between men and women." He used her as an indentured servant and beat her with weaving tools when she didn't work fast enough. Once, when she dropped some tea glasses, the family cut off all of her hair. She ran away. Now she is trying to get a divorce, which her in-laws refuse to grant because, they say, they paid good money for her. Islam Family conflict and a husband addicted to drugs pushed Islam to pour diesel fuel over herself in a suicide attempt. Her mother-in-law tried to extinguish the flames. Prisoners Nasimgul, left, and Gul Bahar, holding another inmate's child, are serving time in the Afghan women's detention center in Kabul. Even under the new government, Afghan society still imprisons women for crimes that are never ascribed to men, like running away and adultery, further stunting women's progress. Shirin Gul Convicted of murder and hijacking, Gul says she fell into a life of crime under pressure from her husband; she had six children, so she followed his wishes. The Abadini Family Though Afghan women are no longer required to wear burqas, as they were under Taliban rule, many women still wear them out of tradition or fear. The younger generation of Afghan women want more liberal and open ways of living in Afghan society.
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 12:01 PM
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 1:18 PM
CANTTAKESKY
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 4:46 PM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 4:59 PM
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:02 PM
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:34 PM
THEHAPPYTRADER
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:41 PM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: We see things through the prism of our own lives, which makes it a political discussion about when we should leave, if we should leave, etc. I don't have that luxury; I'm not sure whether I wish I did or not. But I'm afraid, for me, the issue must live in the greys...
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:43 PM
Quote:Originally posted by TheHappyTrader: While I'm not crazy about it being us, someone has to stand up to these assholes.
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:45 PM
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:53 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: ... or let them continue because ending them would be anathema to our ideal of self-determination?
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 5:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: There is no conflict of ideals for me. Self-determination is for EVERYONE, not just the oppressors. These victims did not choose to be victims. They don't have cultural values that say its ok for them to be mutilated. Victims need to be empowered so they can say no for themselves. Military solutions, or any kind of "rescue" mission, doesn't empower. It only provides a short relief, then it's back to the same old shit by different names. In liberal terms, rescue missions are not sustainable. Sustainable empowerment gives victims options. If they defend themselves, instead of our doing it for them, they can choose a way that is consistent with their cultural values--or change those values if they want to. Sustainable empowerment sidesteps the landmines of cultural imperialism here.
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 10:19 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 11:00 PM
CATPIRATE
Thursday, December 9, 2010 2:33 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: You could try ASKING them.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 2:54 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: I'd be interested in your detailed solutions for "Sustainable empowerment" of Afghan women in Taliban-controlled areas.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 3:14 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 4:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: http://www.rawa.org/index.php You could try ASKING them.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 4:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: In my view, the only way empower a group of people sustainably consists of 4 steps: 1. Emigrate and be a permanent part of their community. 2. Investigate the real story. While there, you can better understand the nuances of the conflicts, identify major obstacles, and respect local values. 3. Come up with creative solutions. You can do it (as opposed to them) usually because being a newbie allows you to think outside the box. Immigration brings that kind of strength, where you are able to combine the best of two worlds and form hybrid cultures. 4. Implement and experience the solutions. While thinking outside the box, you've moved inside the box at the same time. So whatever you are suggesting for them applies to you too. That is, there is no more "them." Whatever solution you propose applies to "us."
Thursday, December 9, 2010 5:01 AM
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: Second, use trade as an inducement to change. If we could get out of those stupid so-called "free trade" agreements, or (better yet) convert those agreements to impose tariffs on nations without UN-approved elections, and with low literacy rates and legal inequities, then the overlords of those societies (who typically skim trade and aid) will see a pocketbook benefit to improving life in their nations.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 5:06 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: This might work if, at some point, the Taliban or some other fundamentalist male-domination outfit didn't decide you were messing with their prerogatives and put you down, along with anyone you'd 'contaminated' with your ideas.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:35 AM
Quote: to stand up for themselves, or the protectors/rescuers will have to be there forever.
Quote: Second, use trade as an inducement to change. If we could get out of those stupid so-called "free trade" agreements, or (better yet) convert those agreements to impose tariffs on nations without UN-approved elections, and with low literacy rates and legal inequities, then the overlords of those societies (who typically skim trade and aid) will see a pocketbook benefit to improving life in their nations. But those make too much sense, and they ding the pocketbooks of the military industrial complex and the corporations which get cheap commodities and labor from slave-like conditions, so of course that will never happen.
Quote: This might work if, at some point, the Taliban or some other fundamentalist male-domination outfit didn't decide you were messing with their prerogatives and put you down, along with anyone you'd 'contaminated' with your ideas. These guys don't really want an enlightenment or strength for the women - or pretty much anyone who's not them - in their world. It's been shown pretty conclusively that they'll use just about any means to keep things the way they like them.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:44 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: ...we all too easily forget what's happening outside our own lives and our own politics.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 8:50 AM
Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:19 AM
Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:49 AM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by AnthonyT: Social pressure is the only way to affect that kind of change without becoming oppressors and murderers ourselves.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 10:52 AM
Thursday, December 9, 2010 1:11 PM
Quote:Originally posted by canttakesky: That is where self-defense and empowerment comes in.
Thursday, December 9, 2010 3:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: This assumes that you can develop a pretty much region-wide system to provide self-defense under the noses of the oppressors,
Thursday, December 9, 2010 3:47 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: c) Pleaes DON'T. Part of the reason I post stuff is that we ARE involved in Afghanistan and because it's close to my heart.
Friday, December 10, 2010 8:21 AM
Quote:If you want, I can start new threads about all the genocides that are going on in the world right now. Won't that be cheery?
Friday, December 10, 2010 8:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Where are you posting from?
Friday, December 10, 2010 9:05 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Quote:CTS: If you want, I can start new threads about all the genocides that are going on in the world right now. Won't that be cheery?Don't that.
Quote:CTS: If you want, I can start new threads about all the genocides that are going on in the world right now. Won't that be cheery?
Quote:...we all too easily forget what's happening outside our own lives and our own politics.
Friday, December 10, 2010 10:06 AM
Friday, December 10, 2010 11:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Whereas atrocities around the world really don't affect our lives, our government or our politics much.
Friday, December 10, 2010 12:01 PM
Friday, December 10, 2010 12:18 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Quote:Originally posted by SignyM: There are other ways to help, though. First do no harm. The US should stop funding and arming groups which have a misogyny as a basic tenet. The Taliban (and the warlords) were fertilized by the USA in our never-ending quest to make the world safe for corporatism. We did, so yipee for us.
Friday, December 10, 2010 1:53 PM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Quote:The history of the Taliban's growth in power is inextricably linked to US involvement in that region, even to the point where there was fairly recent funding of the Taliban.
Friday, December 10, 2010 2:09 PM
Friday, December 10, 2010 2:12 PM
Quote:Ultimately this is pretty much what the whole conflict is about. Why do Muslim extremists hate Americans? We never shared common interests, they made good trading partners, they liked our guns, we liked their horses...we never tried to colonize them...what set them off all of a sudden? The answer is freedom. They realized that if freedom takes hold it leads to equality between the sexes and getting along with the Jews.
Friday, December 10, 2010 2:57 PM
Quote:Most recently http://www.thenation.com/article/how-us-funds-taliban
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