On Global Warming, which = Climate Change by Niki2

America loves a winner!

There is no global warming.

You claiming that snows in places which usually don't get snow, or this much, or this early in winter, is akin to waving a powerful talisman around , and claiming it wards off polar bears.

While doing so, in Miami.

See any polar bears in South Beach ?

That's proof that it works !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 7:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Of course, you claiming "there is no global warming" is exactly the same sort of talisman waving, and no more valid.

(And here's the part where you regale us all with your tales of all the "facts" you could cite, but won't, because we're simply not worthy..."

This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, December 26, 2010 7:49 PM

America loves a winner!

It's been done, 100's of times, over and over.

The world isn't only 6,000 yrs old.

There is no man made global warming.

I'll not waste my time with either debate, for obvious reasons.

* If snowfall increases because of global warming, increasing the reflectivity of the Earth (albedo), sending more of the suns energy back into space, then we have a self regulating system. So if more greenhouse gases = more heat = more snow = less solar heat gained then we're all good. Nice.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 27, 2010 8:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mike is right: denying global warming as causing extreme weather (hot OR cold) is as much an excuse as saying definitively they ARE caused by it. It merely shows deliberate, persistent denial of the possibility, which, in the face of presented facts, is deliberate stupidity.

You and yours only use extreme weather of ANY kind except heat to snark, nothing more. You have nothing of substance to add to the discussion, so yes, why don't you just stop?

Your normal statements that "what I believe is true; don't confuse me with any contrary facts" is nothing new to us, just predictable. And sad.

I've begun to notice something. ANYTHING claimed by ANYONE you, Whozit or Kane have differing opinions on is never disproven, only claimed to be wrong and stupid stupid. Given you rarely have a leg to stand on and virtually never disagree with your buddies, it shows you only come here to attack people, usually in the most immature and personal fashion possible. That says all that needs saying, for me.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, December 27, 2010 8:28 AM

America loves a winner!

Niki

Was T. Rex a predator, or a scavenger ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 27, 2010 9:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Again: See? No reality there, just snarks. Maybe it's partly that they aren't CAPABLE of coming up with anything like a real retort, I dunno, but it's interesting; ignore the discussion, make flat statements, or just post something stupid.

When you come right down to it; what a truly pathetic reason to spend time on a forum!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, December 27, 2010 9:44 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Again: See? No reality there, just snarks. Maybe it's partly that they aren't CAPABLE of coming up with anything like a real retort, I dunno, but it's interesting; ignore the discussion, make flat statements, or just post something stupid.

When you come right down to it; what a truly pathetic reason to spend time on a forum!

No reality ? Are you claiming T.Rex wasn't real ? Never existed ? Or are you trying to say there's no real scientific debate on this issue ?

I can assure you, there IS quite a conflict over this matter.

I ask because you seem to be the definitive source for damn near everything.

It's a serious question, so stop avoiding.

Answer, please. And show everyone just how capable YOU really are.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 27, 2010 6:32 PM

TBH, and not to stirr up a whole hate-fest, I always wonder why people who believe in "climate change", "global warming" whatever, massively ignore all of the evidence opposing the fact- and simply tend to trust the media and government overhauls and regulations.

And in short, no- I'm not buying into it :)

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 8:51 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Alyss (hi, don't think I've met you before), I think people would rather swallow what they're told, like some of those here, than learn and consider...we see it every day in "beliefs" fed to the public which they then latch onto and will defend to the death. I find it just as strange that people who WON'T even consider the possibility are so fervent in their beliefs.

As to the other: I don't bother answering stupid questions which I know are aimed at me for assinine reasons and don't pertain to the topic.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 9:43 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by ALYSSRICHES:
TBH, and not to stirr up a whole hate-fest, I always wonder why people who believe in "climate change", "global warming" whatever, massively ignore all of the evidence opposing the fact- and simply tend to trust the media and government overhauls and regulations.

And in short, no- I'm not buying into it :)

Because their liberal minds don't function right. See, liberalism is mental disorder..we have had a thread that proved this. This disorder usually only effects hippies, gays, and the unbathed amongst us. So you do not need mask, it is not SARS......

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:36 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

As to the other: I don't bother answering stupid questions which I know are aimed at me for assinine reasons and don't pertain to the topic.

Me, being the " other" , of course. And it's neither a stupid question nor is it for an assinine reason.

Since you obviously DON'T know, I pose the question with that in mind, for exactly that reason.

Where WOULD you go to find the answer to such a question ?

I think you know where this is headed....

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 11:10 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

You know... this is WHY true environmetalism fails.

You've got a bunch of stinky hippies screaming about shit they know nothing about.

So now, whenever someone says somthing about the environment, these fuckers have already infected peoples minds about it and noone pays attention.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:43 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, I'll bite. It's a long-running argument whether he was a predetor or a scavanger; so again, it's up to making up one's own mind once one has researched various sources. And no, I don't know where it was headed...where did you think it was?

That good enough for you? If you were using it as an analogy of issues which have a lot of pro and con, then it IS valid; if it was a snark, well, at least you got an answer.

And no, Wulf, I don't think Peter Noone IS paying attention, you're right.

ETA: If you're asking for my OPINION, by the way, I think he was a predator who was happy to scavenge or eat injured prey. Our Bald Eagle does the same; he can fish, but he's just as happy to scavenge...ditto the Turkey Vulture. But that's just my opinion (and I'm less on the fence about that than about global warming; still there's no definitive answer).

MOST 'predators' will scavenge anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

ETA also: I'll give you back a question. Was Tarbosaurus a T. Rex or a separate genus?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:49 PM

America loves a winner!

The 'prey' group, headed by the likes of paleontologists Robert Bakker and Phil Currie, see the evidence pointing toward T.Rex as being the top link in the food chain.

The 'scavenger' group, headed by the likes of Jack Horner, sees T.Rex as being too slow to actively hunt - anything, and simply used his massive size to muscle out other predators for their hard earned kill.

Both camps have exactly the same evidence. Both have very credible scientist,giants in their respected field, arguing their side. Both have valid sounding arguments.... but are both right ?

While many might say the answer isn't fully one or the other, the argument remains. Was T.Rex more apt to hunt for his dinner, or simply hang around and wait for something to drop dead ?

It's not always as straight forward as it seems.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:04 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

The 'prey' group, headed by the likes of paleontologist Robert Bakker and Phil Currie, see the evidence pointing toward T.Rex as being the top link in the food chain.

The 'scavenger' group, headed by the likes of Jack Horner, sees T.Rex as being too slow to actively hunt - anything, and simply used his massive size to muscle out other predators for their hard earned kill.

Both camps have exactly the same evidence. Both have very credible scientist,giants in their respected field, arguing their side. Both have valid sounding arguments.... but are both right ?

While many might say the answer isn't fully one or the other, the argument remains. Was T.Rex more apt to hunt for his dinner, or simply hang around and wait for something to drop dead ?

It's not always as straight forward as it seems.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

AURapt, I get your point. However, the "experts" that point to man-made global warming have two hundred years of soft data, yet swear (for the green economy agenda and their paychecks) it is man-made. T-rex? Really? I could say T-rex was an alien from nieumguba. Could you argue I was wrong? Instead of making the T-rex argument....show her Al Gore's lies, how the oceans suck up C02 like her girlfriend eats her ass, and the effects of the Sun...then explain that we are just a blip on the planet and know no more than we know about T-rex......

Dude you are the kingpin....I am just the "fuck you... you are a tard" gal....

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:13 PM

Niki2 -
Hi!
Nope you haven't met me! :) I've been a browncoat for ages, but have only recently decided to become active on the forums and internet community. (as in, last night I decided I should start posting!)
As for the post related...
I do prefer to read all of the evidence, and then decide for myself! I can generally respect the opinions on either side (as long as no one gets too debate-y, or insulting!), as long as they've at least learned some about whichever side they are taking a stance for!
....does this make sense? I'm ill and tired hah!

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:40 PM

Welcome, Alyss.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:42 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Nik

I meant more along the lines of hi-lib-progs screaming global warming (or are you guys using Climate Change now) at every oppurtunity.

There is snow? Climate Change

There is NOT snow? Climate Change

Rain? Climate Change

Sun? Climate Change

There MAY be something to what you are saying. Beyong gradual polar shift, and general new ice-age weather.

But... like calling raciss... you guys shoot yourselves in the foot. So people stop paying attention.

P.S.

ALY..

"I do prefer to read all of the evidence, and then decide for myself!"

Fresh meat...

There is a reason I chose to call myself Wulf... I hope you can learn to stake your claim here. It gets rough.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:46 PM

Haha ;)
Thanks for the welcomes! :)

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:07 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"I do prefer to read all of the evidence, and then decide for myself! I can generally respect the opinions on either side (as long as no one gets too debate-y, or insulting!), as long as they've at least learned some about whichever side they are taking a stance for!
....does this make sense? I'm ill and tired hah!"

Oh, poor thing...

:(

Little one, most here are set in their ways. We just argue to see which side can one-up the other.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:53 PM

Haha :) I mean in general....
I'm quite willing to debate it out if needed, no worries ;)
(I think I'll just sleep for now though!)

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 6:55 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

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Tuesday, December 28, 2010 7:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AlyssRiches:
Haha :) I mean in general....
I'm quite willing to debate it out if needed, no worries ;)

(I think I'll just sleep for now though!)

You're my kind of stupid.

Welcome.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:57 AM

DMAANLILEILTT

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:Little one, most here are set in their ways. We just argue to see which side can one-up the other.

That helps to explain an awful lot.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:42 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Alyss...welcome again; with the caveat that I hope you know what you're getting yourself into! It gets truly ugly down here, but damn, it's a real treat to hear a new, rational voice, so selfishly I hope you stick around.

I like your style, and yes, that's how I feel too. But don't expect too much in the way of actual "debate" or "discussion" down here, or you'll be disappointed.

Wulf, if you knock off the "you guys" shit, I fully agree; they shoot themselves in the foot. It's a shame. What you forget is the idiocy of those who ALWAYS notice an extreme weather event and laugh "ha ha, no global warming, neener neener", which shows either ignorance, deliberate ignorance or stupidity far beyond ignorance.

On the other hand, now we know your purpose in being here,

Quote:
We just argue to see which side can one-up the other

I'll remember that in future.

The difference between global warming and T Rex is that with global warming, time will tell; we can never "know" about T. Rex. However, given there's evidence of him attacking and/or eating other beasties, I'd bet he's like our Bald Eagle; a hunter if necessary, a scavenger if convenient.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The funny thing is, the people who quite frequently lament the "lack of discussion" are the people who do so little of it.

Rappy, Wulf, Kaneman and Whozit. Time and time again, they fail to bring convincing arguments to the table. Or they resort to name-calling. Or they veer off the point, or duck out of thread altogether when challenged to do nothing more than explain their position, or substantiate their viewpoint. And that's not even counting PN, who's batshit and uses this forum as an extension of his website.

I am capable of changing my mind, and some people here HAVE changed my thinking.

But you've got to CONVINCE me. I'm not going to change my mind because someone keeps blathering the same stupid talking points and videos at me ad infinitum ad nauseum.

So far, the only thing the right-wing has convinced me of is the fact that they don't even understand their own points very well... certainly, not enough to go toe-to-toe and in detail about them. Emotion? Conviction? They got plenty of that. Facts and reasoning ability? Not so much. If I wanted to believe in a religion, I'd be religious already. Why should I believe in theirs?

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Time and time again, they fail to bring convincing arguments to the table....

I am capable of changing my mind, and some people here HAVE changed my thinking.

But you've got to CONVINCE me.

I don't think persuasion is a matter of "convincing arguments." It is a matter of...charisma if you will. Saying the facts and figures in *just* the RIGHT way.

I have seen all those people, Rap, Kaneman, Whozit, PN, etc. bring up facts and ideas that are correct. But the WAY they say it makes people not want to accept it. Then Frem or HK or Anthony come along and say the nearly same things, and wow, everyone's onboard.

Unconvincing people have convincing arguments too, which are unfortunately obscured by how much they are disliked. It's basic psychology underlying ad hominem. Kane can say the sky is blue, and no one will want to believe it cause it was Kane who said it.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sig: Yes. Period.

CTTS:

Quote:
the WAY they say it makes people not want to accept it.

I think that's the answer more than because they are disliked. Occasionally Raptor has made a valid point, and I respond when he does so rationally without the things Signy described. I've even agreed with him at least a couple of times, or granted that within what he said were valid points. I think people respond to how things are phrased, and given they're usually phrased nastily by those mentioned, it turns people off to hearing them.

Note that Kane has said clearly that he's only here to harrass people; Wulf just recently stated "we're" only here to try and one-up one another (which means HE is). Raptor has never, that I can recall, claimed either of those, and does address the issue at least maybe half the time. I can even overlook his snarks sometimes when his point is valid, but I don't see the others, nor certainly Whozit(!) as having any reason to be here except to spew. PN doesn't even come into it, for me.

It's not charisma, it's communicating. When someone communicates, I take what they say seriously. Those mentioned just don't even attempt to communicate, and I don't believe it's their purpose to do so.

I've had my mind changed, but I don't expect it to be. I expect debate will be just that; debate between differing opinions. I used to belong to the "other" NFL--National Forensic League. The purpose in debates was never to convince, it was to air both sides with good points, and that's how debates were scored; not who "won", but how well they communicated their side. And no, I didn't partake of the debate aspects, I was never eloquent enough to do so; I was involved in the dramatic events.

So yes, it IS about the way things are said, to me, but not "charisma". Certainly previous exchanges create a "veil" through which subsequent posts are viewed, and expectation can cloud people actually "hearing" what's said. But for me anyone can make a valid point to which I will respond if they CHOOSE to, and I will respect their point of view and respond to it if they do. It's just that those mentioned virtually never do, and Raptor only say half the time.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:02 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The funny thing is, the people who quite frequently lament the "lack of discussion" are the people who do so little of it.

Rappy, Wulf, Kaneman and Whozit. Time and time again, they fail to bring convincing arguments to the table. Or they resort to name-calling. Or they veer off the point, or duck out of thread altogether when challenged to do nothing more than explain their position, or substantiate their viewpoint. And that's not even counting PN, who's batshit and uses this forum as an extension of his website.

I am capable of changing my mind, and some people here HAVE changed my thinking.

But you've got to CONVINCE me. I'm not going to change my mind because someone keeps blathering the same stupid talking points and videos at me ad infinitum ad nauseum.

So far, the only thing the right-wing has convinced me of is the fact that they don't even understand their own points very well... certainly, not enough to go toe-to-toe and in detail about them. Emotion? Conviction? They got plenty of that. Facts and reasoning ability? Not so much. If I wanted to believe in a religion, I'd be religious already. Why should I believe in theirs?

I'm just tired of having to try and convince you the world isn't flat.

You seem to think that 'debate' is the end all be all of determining truth. It isn't. I don't want to convince you. It can't be done. Despite your claims, you've already made up your mind. This isn't, to me at least, in any way a " Left / Right " issue, save for the fact that those pushing the global warming story have openly stated that the goal isn't to clean up anything ( cap and tax is the proof ), but to transfer wealth from the haves to the have-nots. A classic Left wing position.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:47 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm just tired of having to try and convince you the world isn't flat.

You seem to think that 'debate' is the end all be all of determining truth. It isn't. I don't want to convince you. It can't be done. Despite your claims, you've already made up your mind. ,

What have you brought to the table? Geologic records? Historic records? The infrared absorption characteristics and residence time of greenhouse gases? Knowledge of mathematical modeling? Seriously, dude. Other than a hand-waving conviction that "this has all happened before" and a reference to "Greenland" having once been green (NOT EVER in the history of homo sapiens, h. neaderthalensis, or h. heidelbergensis!) ... On what, exactly, do you base your deep-seated conviction?

Quote:
This isn't, to me at least, in any way a " Left / Right " issue

Then why do you keep turning it into one? It looks like the only... and I mean ONLY... reason you react to global warming is because you perceive it to be an "anti-business" issue.

Quote:
save for the fact that those pushing the global warming story have openly stated that the goal isn't to clean up anything ( cap and tax is the proof ), but to transfer wealth from the haves to the have-nots. A classic Left wing position.

Well, not me. I have openly stated that I am against cap-and-trade, and so are many thoughtful environmentalists. So, who are you arguing with?

BTW, I don't think that debate is the end-all and be-all of determining truth. If that were the case, scientists would never have to go into the lab, or into the field. They could figure out everything by just yakking at each other.

In a situation where you can't directly experiment, I think the best way to prove your hypothesis... and I have said this many times by now... is to be able to explain the facts (ALL the facts, not just a select few) and be able to predict events better than any other hypothesis.

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ain't a matter of Charisma, tis a matter of Credibility.

When one has repeatedly lied, knowingly offered flat out untruths or ludicrous distortions as "fact" and then held that position in spite of reams of contradictory evidence, on top of stooping to name calling and flat-out nastiness when called on it...

No, people are not going to accept their unsupported word, not by a long-shot, and having offered supporting "evidence" that was, often as not, outright fiction and intentional lies, any outside evidence they offer will be questioned too.

Whereas on the other hand, someone who has been right a great deal of the time, even when initially dismissed or flamed, who has offered reams of solid, verifiable evidence from damn good sources will have the benefit of credibility, or at least you'd THINK so...

Right up till they once again say something people *wish* wasn't true, and the cycle starts again - some days I feel like Cassandra, and it's certainly no comfort being right about such awful stuff, but still one would THINK that after damn near a decade of being statistically correct, often chapter and verse (not talkin about folk here on the board, mind you, but folk I know in general), of having evidence in hand, sometimes from the very files of the accused, that people would not be so goddamn quick to dismiss arguments out of hand - but they are.

People as a rule ain't as open minded as even they themselve think, and someone telling them what they WANT to believe is always gonna have an edge over even the best of credibility, all that credibility gets you is the hook to set - at which point you'd damn well better have all your ducks in a row, and be fully prepared to argue your point, unless your intent is to simply throw it in their face and walk away.

So it isn't a matter of charisma whatever, so much as whether a person is seen as willing to actually back up their claims effectively - as a general rule around here, when one sees me make an unqualified claim around here, it's prettymuch a given I am prepared to do exactly that, often to a degree with borders on information-overload.

Others... not so much, and THAT, folks, is why they're not often taken seriously, even when they DO have a valid point.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:04 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Then why do you keep turning it into one? It looks like the only... and I mean ONLY... reason you react to global warming is because you perceive it to be an "anti-business" issue.

“Our revolution seeks to help all people…socialism, the other ghost that is probably wandering around this room, that’s the way to save the planet, capitalism is the road to hell….let’s fight against capitalism and make it obey us.- Hugo Chavez, at the "Climate Change" conference.

I'm simply not going to get in a pissing contest, where you toss up your "experts" and I toss out mine, and then you bitch about what's credible, what's peer reviewed, and this bitch fest goes on for 15 pages , which only ends in mindless name calling.

As I've said, 'debate' doesn't determine truth. You think it does, I don't.

I know the history of this planet, long before humans have set 2 feet on dry ground, and there's every indication that 'climate change' isn't that big of a deal. It's nothing we started, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

Can we as humans do a better job of keeping our pollution down ? Yep. You'll get my support there, no fuss. But to phony up this issue of man made global warming ?

Never.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:06 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I don't think persuasion is a matter of "convincing arguments." It is a matter of...charisma if you will. Saying the facts and figures in *just* the RIGHT way.

Er... sometimes. But not always. I find Nikki to be generally polite and explanatory, and for her trouble she gets called all kinds of names.

On the other hand, although Anthony is extremely polite, I find him unpersuasive. He has a fixed idea that being "fair" means treating everyone the same, but I have never been able to get a better explanation from him as to what he hopes to accomplish that way, or whether or not there are any exceptions. (For example, would he treat the mentally disabled the same as anyone else?)

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm simply not going to get in a pissing contest, where you toss up your "experts" and I toss out mine, and then you bitch about what's credible, what's peer reviewed, and this bitch fest goes on for 15 pages , which only ends in mindless name calling.

Please, bring your experts. You never have before, so now would be a good start.

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:37 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I'm simply not going to get in a pissing contest, where you toss up your "experts" and I toss out mine, and then you bitch about what's credible, what's peer reviewed, and this bitch fest goes on for 15 pages , which only ends in mindless name calling.
Please, bring your experts. You never have before, so now would be a good start.

This issue of global warming is every bit as worn out and over done as the claims of a young earth.

Playing this game, again, would serve no purpose, what so ever.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:45 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

I agree with the basics of what Rappy is saying. We've also observed in our human history a pattern of climate change that fits what we are currently going through without the need for big evil man-made carbons. During the Medieval period the earth was warmer than it is now and after wards eventually entered a 'mini ice age' that ended roughly around 1800 or 1900 (I'm sorry I don't remember the specific date). So our temperature should be rising without the influence of our industry and I'm not convinced our emissions are having much of an impact (or any for that matter).

Deforestation and destruction of ecosystems is more dangerous and a more believable cause than the carbon non-issue locked in everyone's tunnel vision (not that I'm convinced we have done or can do anything to influence the climate on that scale). I wish the media, governments and businesses would pay more attention to that. But, I suppose there's no revenue in protecting forest, so we're better off working towards something like carbon taxes...

Please forgive any spelling or poor grammar, itouches aren't condusive to good editing or referencing. I hope I don't ruin my argument too much with bad writing. I am looking forward to returning my computer and internet when I return from the holidays.

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:30 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

There is no global warming.

You claiming that snows in places which usually don't get snow, or this much, or this early in winter, is akin to waving a powerful talisman around , and claiming it wards off polar bears.

While doing so, in Miami.

See any polar bears in South Beach ?

That's proof that it works !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

What an idiotic analogy.

ETA: Followed by the usaul refusal to provide anything to back your position, or discuss. Classic Rappy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:32 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Playing this game, again, would serve no purpose what so ever.

See Rappy?

You spend so much time decrying the lack of discussion suddenly find you REALLY don't want to "discuss" anything after all!

Please, bring your experts. I invite you, on this discussion board, to discuss your POV.

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Thursday, December 30, 2010 11:12 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Happytrader: What I have learned from reading about climate change is that there are MANY possible causes: from solar minima to vulcanism to earth wobble. Of course, that doesn't mean that WE caused the previous changes. OTOH, that doesn't rule out our current effect, either. Just because it happened without us, don't make the logical mistake of thinking that it couldn't happen because of us. We COULD just be another one of the many possible causes.

Taking a lesson from the great Permian-Triassic extinction (in which 90% of all sea creatures and 75% of all land-dwelling creatures became extinct... it was the greatest extinction in the fossil record), the cause of tis great extinction was volcanic activity in Siberia. A great outpouring of basalt flooded and area roughly the size of the continental USA. On its way up, the magma passed though a great coal field, releasing gigatons of carbon dioxide and methane. The oceans became warm, acidic, and anaerobic. This concept is supported by methane isotopic data and marine data indicating acidification and a "reducing" (as opposed to oxidative) environment.

So, release of large amounts of carbon dioxide and methane can, indeed, cause the earth to warm.

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Friday, December 31, 2010 2:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You spend so much time decrying the lack of discussion

But I don't see him decrying that at all. He said from the outset he wouldn't waste time debating it.

For that matter, neither will I--not on this board. I've already said all that I have to say in the last GW threads I started here:

The Great Global Warming Debate
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=46205&m=815447

and here:
Prove CTS Wrong, Make Her Eat Crow
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=46232&m=815520

I get all my GW/CC jollies from http://scienceofdoom.com/ now.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
What we think, or what we know, or what we believe, is in the end, of little consequence. The only thing of consequence is what we do. -John Ruskin, author, art critic, and social reformer (1819-1900)

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Friday, December 31, 2010 8:26 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

That's true. OTOH, if Rappy isn't posting on this discussion board to actually.. yanno-.. DISCUSS... then what IS he doing here? Propagandizing? I may as well ignore his posts, then.

Oh, yeah, and as for YOUR posts: You will only accept very limited data as being "legitimate". You're a cherry-picker of the first order, not a scientist at all. But I will happily re-link what I linked before:
www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/#mlo_full
http://books.google.com/books?id=ozAN5vLbssgC&pg=PA175&dq=average+conc
entration+of+carbon+dioxide+change+worldwide&hl=en&ei=DsXeTN6_H4qusAPWqOX2Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=average%20concentration%20of%20carbon%20dioxide%20change%20worldwide&f=false
www.alcoa.com/global/en/environment/position_papers/carbon_dioxide.asp

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Friday, December 31, 2010 2:26 PM