REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Remember 'climategate'? OOPS - it was made up.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:31
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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.salon.com/news/global_warming/index.html?story=/politics/wa
r_room/2010/06/25/climategate_retraction


"A version of our article that had been checked with Dr Lewis underwent significant late editing and so did not give a fair or accurate account of his views on these points. We apologise for this."


Newspaper retracts "climategate" story, months too late

Remember "climategate"? Someone hacked and distributed emails from climate scientists from the University of East Anglia. (It was kind of like Weigelgate except the entire Earth is going to die in a fire.) Some of the scientists used words like 'trick" and "hide." Instant scandal: Global warming is made up! A British newspaper has finally gotten around to correcting the record.

It was obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read the stolen "climategate" emails that they didn't actually contain anything particularly scandalous, and they certainly didn't contain anything at all that remotely called into the question the legitimacy of years of science demonstrating the effect of human activity on climate change.

But once the name "climategate" was affixed to the trumped-up non-scandal and printed in large type in a major newspaper, it didn't matter what the emails said. Not a whit. Emails, scandal, "-gate" -- there must be something to this!

There wasn't. Amazingly, The Sunday Times of London has now effectively retracted its most damning stories on the manufactured outrage. Months too late, obviously.

Via a Newsweek post by Sharon Begley, enjoy this description of how the Times ended up viciously misquoting a climate scientist:

A version of our article that had been checked with Dr Lewis underwent significant late editing and so did not give a fair or accurate account of his views on these points. We apologise for this.

The best editing errors are the ones that end up making stories support a predetermined conclusion, right?

Anyway now that The Times has corrected the record, everyone will agree to do something about carbon emissions, right?

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:47 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Earth is going to die in a fire.


Some places are having some nasty droughts and other places are experiencing some nasty storms and floods. It's a problem, people are considering what to do about it.

As for the scientists, yeah, too little too late to clear their name, but I kinda feel almost like they brought this on themselves. I really wonder what they were expecting these people to do when they refused to talk to them or show them their data and calculations.

Ivory tower mindsets kill careers.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:53 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Anyway now that The Times has corrected the record, everyone will agree to do something about carbon emissions, right?"

Hello,

You do realize that people were skeptical before 'climategate' and will continue to be skeptical after 'climategate?'

The whole debate is counterproductive.

--Anthony



Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:55 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ivory-tower mindsets kill more than just careers!

And I'm not surprised; just like newspapers, the potential scandal makes front page, the retraction a small box on page 19. The naysayers won't pay any attention...actually, they wouldn't even if it was on the FRONT page in banner headlines...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:45 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The whole debate is counterproductive.

Yes. It is like trying to convince Christian fundies that God doesn't exist, or atheists that God does exist.

Yes, I want to convince people that spending billions of taxpayer money on researching carbon sequestration while people are dying now because they can't pay health care costs is a skewed priority. It's like worrying about too much salt causing hypertension while eating arsenic with every meal. But if people would rather get enraged about muslims in other countries and a gas we exhale in every breath rather than take care of our sick and hungry, or our well documented polluters, well, that's their prerogative. There's nothing I can say to convince them otherwise.

Let's all just live our best according to our own consciences, and leave it at that.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I swear to the non existant fucking NON god.........y2k was fucking BULL SHIT! ( save for the computer stuff...that was legit )


You fucks are god damn fucking m0-rons !


Fuck yeah! :)


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:02 PM

DREAMTROVE


Nah, rap, the computer stuff was a load of hooey too. The IT industry scammed corporate America and the US govt. Out of 181 billion dollars to solve a non existent bug.

As for co2, the planet will thank us if we feed it all we can, but I'm worried about deforestation and water contamination. Earth needs clean drinking water, and it needs rain, and it needs biodiversity.

And here's the number one reason humans should defend biodiversity: all of our diseases evolved in biohotspots of biodiversity, I can damn well guarantee you that critters living there have evolved immunities to every single futhermucking disease out there that is threatening to kill each and every one of us, because that's what evolution does.

If a parasite comes from the Congo, you can bet your life that something in the Congo has evolved an immunity that we can copy borrow or steal, unless were so futhermucking dumb that we destroy the Congo before we can find it.

Not dying is a much greater concern to me than saving a buck.

That said, I have zero objection to fossil fuels if they can be done safely. As I posted here a couple months ago, I think algae biofuels may be the answer we've been looking for. However, my objection to fracking has gone from ideological to personal.

I meant to say this more clearly before: it's not that I object to natural gas, its that I see no gorram reason why it's worth pouring a thousand known toxins and carcinogens into the groundwater of rural folk.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I swear to the non existant fucking NON god.........y2k was fucking BULL SHIT! ( save for the computer stuff...that was legit )



I don't think you really understand the concept of what the Y2K scare was about...

Quote:


You fuck are god damn fucking m0-rons !



You fuck are fucking damn god crassic!

Seriously, how did your brain learn human speech? Because you really need to work on it.

This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:38 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Nah, rap, the computer stuff was a load of hooey too. The IT industry scammed corporate America and the US govt. Out of 181 billion dollars to solve a non existent bug."

Hello,

Many programs, particularly those associated with billing and date-based recordkeeping, needed to be altered to accommodate dates past 1999.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 4:09 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.salon.com/news/global_warming/index.html?story=/politics/wa
r_room/2010/06/25/climategate_retraction


"A version of our article that had been checked with Dr Lewis underwent significant late editing and so did not give a fair or accurate account of his views on these points. We apologise for this."


Newspaper retracts "climategate" story, months too late

Remember "climategate"? Someone hacked and distributed emails from climate scientists from the University of East Anglia. (It was kind of like Weigelgate except the entire Earth is going to die in a fire.) Some of the scientists used words like 'trick" and "hide." Instant scandal: Global warming is made up! A British newspaper has finally gotten around to correcting the record.

It was obvious to anyone who actually bothered to read the stolen "climategate" emails that they didn't actually contain anything particularly scandalous, and they certainly didn't contain anything at all that remotely called into the question the legitimacy of years of science demonstrating the effect of human activity on climate change.

But once the name "climategate" was affixed to the trumped-up non-scandal and printed in large type in a major newspaper, it didn't matter what the emails said. Not a whit. Emails, scandal, "-gate" -- there must be something to this!

There wasn't. Amazingly, The Sunday Times of London has now effectively retracted its most damning stories on the manufactured outrage. Months too late, obviously.

Via a Newsweek post by Sharon Begley, enjoy this description of how the Times ended up viciously misquoting a climate scientist:

A version of our article that had been checked with Dr Lewis underwent significant late editing and so did not give a fair or accurate account of his views on these points. We apologise for this.

The best editing errors are the ones that end up making stories support a predetermined conclusion, right?

Anyway now that The Times has corrected the record, everyone will agree to do something about carbon emissions, right?





More seriously, in one e-mail, a prominent global warming alarmist admits to using a statistical "trick" to "hide the decline" in temperatures. Anthony Watts provides an explanation of this case in technical detail; the "trick" consists of selectively mixing two different kinds of data-temperature "proxies" from tree rings and actual thermometer measurements-in a way designed to produce a graph of global temperatures that ends the way the global warming establishment wants it to: with an upward "hockey stick" slope.


Nuff said....next


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Monday, January 10, 2011 4:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well not QUITE nuff - how about providing us unedited extended quotes that actually show that. How about it? Think you can manage that? I'm guessing you'll spout a few more obscenities before you slink off without actually proving your claim.

Nuff said....next

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Monday, January 10, 2011 6:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Kaneman - what's the matter, did the topic get too 'hot' for you?

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Monday, January 10, 2011 6:51 PM

KANEMAN


1998-10-17 14:09:48( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: No Subject Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 10:09:48 +0400 (MSD) trwcrn.rwm Tree-ring widths (TRW) chronology: -------------------------------------------------------------------- Ident., Trees, Inent. N (trees) No. No. -------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) 118 all living and dead 2209-years chronology 2)* 4 MAY,925,927,928, CHA044 3)* 1 CHA-H1...

glossy - 965139790.txt2000-08-01 14:23:10( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: glossy Date: Tue Aug 1 10:23:10 2000 Keith I've sent you a few slides taken by Hakan Grudd as promised . I think these should be supplemented by a bit of a colourful timeseries - part of a chronology. It could be a piece of the Tornetrask series (northern Sweden) from where the pictures are taken - but I think a section of the 3-region average (Tornetrask,Yamal, Taimyr) possibly showing the 563 A.D. would be better. So I am sending a...

Re: Your letter to Science - 1018539404.txt2002-04-11 15:36:44( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: Re: Your letter to Science Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:36:44 -0400 Cc: esper@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, k.briffa@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, t.osborn@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, p.jones@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, tcrowley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, rbradley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, jto@u.arizona.edu, srutherford@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx Ed, It will take some time to digest these comments, but my initial response is one of some disappointment. I will resist the temptation to make the letter...

Re:Your msg about climate/energy policy - 965750123.txt2000-08-08 15:55:23( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: Re:Your msg about climate/energy policy Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 11:55:23 -0400 Cc: mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, pjm8x@xxxxxxxxx.xxx Dear Ray You sent me this op-ed (?) (Letter to editor?) about the need to convert the US from a carbon-based economy to a hydrogen-based economy. I can't guess why you wanted me to know your views, but it does help me to better understand what motivates your scientific work and judgment. It also thro...

Re: THC collapse - 967041809.txt2000-08-23 14:43:29( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: Re: THC collapse > > > > > > > > > > Hello all. I appreciate the improvement in the table from WG 1, > particularly the inclusion of symmetrical confidence levels--but please > get rid of the ridiculous "inconclusive" for the .34 to .66 subjective > probability range. It will convey a completely differnt meaning to lay > persons--re...

Re: FW: Shaviv & Veizer in GSA Today - 1061298033.txt2003-08-19 13:00:33( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: Shaviv & Veizer in GSA Today >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> the Soon&Baliunas paper has given political lobbyists a field day in >> their attempts to confuse the public and decision-makers about the state >> of global warming science. It is quite interesting how a lobby >> organisation like the Marshall Institute manages to get a paper like >> that into the peer-reviewed literature with the help of a sympathetic >> editor, against reviewer...

Re: [ngp-list] Press Release 'Global Warning' talk establishes West Norfolk Green Party - 994083845.txt2001-07-02 14:24:05( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: Re: [ngp-list] Press Release 'Global Warning' talk establishes West Norfolk Green Party Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:24:05 +0100 Reply-to: list@xxxxxxxxx.xxx *sigh* At 9:43 am +0100 2/7/01, Williams, Derek wrote: >No, it's very dangerous to make predictions like this and IMO doesn't >help the cause. Even without human activities, natural things like big >volcanoes can easily disrupt the climate in such a way as to swamp the >sign...

Re: [ngp-list] Press Release 'Global Warning' talk establishes West Norfolk Green Party - 994083845.txt2001-07-02 14:24:05( Very Important - avg:5 )
Subject: Re: [ngp-list] Press Release 'Global

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Monday, January 10, 2011 6:52 PM

KANEMAN

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Monday, January 10, 2011 7:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well hell, you KNOW what's there, right? It should be no problem for you to find what you claim is there, right? After all, you must have read it yourself, right?

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Monday, January 10, 2011 7:27 PM

KANEMAN


Listen, all the emails are there. I couldn't care if you want to educate yourself or if you prefer to google climategate and read the climategate hoax crap.....live your life with your head planted deep in your ass if you want. I really don't mind laughing at you...I get a kick out of it. The emails are there in black and white. It only takes a chimp five minutes to see the manipulation.....good day you nadar nutter.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 7:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"More seriously, in one e-mail, a prominent global warming alarmist admits to using a statistical "trick" to "hide the decline" in temperatures."

Where is that? You CLAIM it's there. You know exactly what was emailed, right? It shouldn't be too hard to find it since you've already done the checking, right? C'mon, be a sport, show us you know what you're talking about ... or not.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 7:49 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Where is that? You CLAIM it's there. You know exactly what was emailed, right?



Here's the email.
Quote:

http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=154&filename=942777075.
txt


From: Phil Jones <p.jones@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: ray bradley <rbradley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>,mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, mhughes@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:31:15 +0000
Cc: k.briffa@xxxxxxxxx.xxx,t.osborn@xxxxxxxxx.xxx


Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,
Once Tim's got a diagram here we'll send that either later today or
first thing tomorrow.
I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps
to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from
1961 for Keith's to hide the decline. Mike's series got the annual
land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land
N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999
for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with
data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998.
Thanks for the comments, Ray.

Cheers
Phil



Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email p.jones@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
NR4 7TJ
UK



Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 8:24 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Incidentally, I would like to make one point of clarification. Climategate was not made up. The authenticity of the leaked emails was never in dispute. The fact that some unflattering details were leaked is also not in dispute.

The interpretation of these emails is in dispute.

One side sees a pattern of sloppy or impatient scholarship, and the other side sees uncensored uncertainty that is normal in science. That is what happens in a propaganda war.

The newspapers sided with the unfavorable view at first, and then retracted their stories. That's it. That's the news.

This alone doesn't prove there wasn't a pattern of sloppy or impatient scholarship. It just means the newspapers don't think there is, anymore.

But the event called "climategate" is not made up, just because a couple of newspapers changed their minds about casting researchers unfavorably.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Monday, January 10, 2011 8:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Seriously - it looks like ADDING data and getting a more COMPLETE picture is the 'trick'.

OOPS. Can't have that. It's all manner of worse than hiding data.

Also, I hope you're OK with being Kaneman's cover. I was hoping Kaneman would be shown to be the FOX drone (and drunken profane Rap clone) he is.

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:07 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Seriously - it looks like ADDING data and getting a more COMPLETE picture is the 'trick'.

OOPS. Can't have that. It's all manner of worse than hiding data.

Also, I hope you're OK with being Kaneman's cover. I was hoping Kaneman would be shown to be the FOX drone (and drunken profane Rap clone) he is.



Fox drone? Listen, newsweek can write anything they want about a retraction in the New York times. The bottom line is the e-mails are out there. Anyone with mammmalian genes can understand that they were bullshitting and tweeking the data to get their hockey stick. Did the paper you are talking about jump before reading and getting the other sides story..sure. However, it is no longer about the times. Thousands of scientists and scholars and guys at billy's pub have come forward and say the data is bunk and can't be trusted.....not to mention temps have fallen. So, you can put your faith in the words of people who invented an industry, get money to study their imaginations, and feed their families with tax dollars by keeping this myth alive.....I'll be the one over in the corner, having a jim beam, pointing at you, and giggling

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:54 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Its snowing here...

Its raining somewhere else.

Everyone.

Panic.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:31 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:


Also, I hope you're OK with being Kaneman's cover. I was hoping Kaneman would be shown to be the FOX drone (and drunken profane Rap clone) he is.



You must be new. That's old news.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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