REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Something to Believe In.

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Sunday, January 16, 2011 14:17
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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:47 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I've found it.

It's US.

Us stupid, loud, aggressive, brave, kind, loyal, sweet, fair, unfair, poor, rich, hood, funny, religious, multi-racial, fake, real, intelligent, crazy, sane, gunslinging, knife-fighting, hopeful, arrogant, silly, childish, open, honest...


Americans.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:52 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


If we don't believe, will you disappear in a puff of logic?

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:57 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No.

I expect your kind.

Can't have light without the dark, afterall.

So, glad to see you and yours.

It just means that we are doing the good and right thing.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 12:09 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


In any case.

Its time for us to pull up, push back and pull together.

We got hit by a lightening strike of crazy. Ok. This shit happens.

It CAN remind us of who we are. If we let it.

We are a free people. So don't let the promises of snakes convince you to give up the first 2 of your natural rights.

1. Free Speech

2. Freedom to protect yourself.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:11 PM

DREAMTROVE


Again,

those rights were granted by the King of England in 1689, ergo, they apply to Magon too, as a british subject.

Sorry for the snark. I think America is a fine thing, it's our govt. I have a problem with, and it's been wrong for a very very long time. It was wrong long before I became an American

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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:46 PM

FIVVER


Wulf, I think P.J. O'Rourke got it right in his book 'Holidays in Hell':
Quote:


I was having dinner...in London...when eventually he got, as the Europeans always do, to the part about "Your country's never been invaded." And so I said, "let me tell you who those bad guys are. They're us. WE BE BAD. We're the baddest-assed sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. We're three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and descended from a stock market crash on our mother's side. You take your Germany, France, and Spain, roll them all together and it wouldn't give us room to park our cars. We're the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap d'Antibes. And we've got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go. You say our country's never been invaded? You're right, little buddy. Because I'd like to see the needle-dicked foreigners who'd have the guts to try. We drink napalm to get our hearts started in the morning. A rape and a mugging is our way of saying 'Cheerio.' Hell can't hold our sock-hops. We walk taller, talk louder, spit further, fuck longer and buy more things than you know the names of. I'd rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen, and jack of all Europeans. We eat little countries like this for breakfat and shit them out before lunch."

Of course, this guy should have punched me. But this was Europe. He just smiled his shabby, superior European smile. (God, don't these people have dentists?)


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Tuesday, January 11, 2011 4:37 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"natural rights."

Hello,

I'm not sure rights are natural. I think they may be among the most important of human constructs.

--Anthony


Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No.

I expect your kind.

Can't have light without the dark, afterall.

So, glad to see you and yours.

It just means that we are doing the good and right thing.





Of course, that makes the obverse true as well: The fact that you are here railing against "the libs" means that we are doing the good and right thing.



This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by fivver:
Wulf, I think P.J. O'Rourke got it right in his book 'Holidays in Hell':
Quote:


I was having dinner...in London...when eventually he got, as the Europeans always do, to the part about "Your country's never been invaded." And so I said, "let me tell you who those bad guys are. They're us. WE BE BAD. We're the baddest-assed sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. We're three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and descended from a stock market crash on our mother's side. You take your Germany, France, and Spain, roll them all together and it wouldn't give us room to park our cars. We're the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap d'Antibes. And we've got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go. You say our country's never been invaded? You're right, little buddy. Because I'd like to see the needle-dicked foreigners who'd have the guts to try. We drink napalm to get our hearts started in the morning. A rape and a mugging is our way of saying 'Cheerio.' Hell can't hold our sock-hops. We walk taller, talk louder, spit further, fuck longer and buy more things than you know the names of. I'd rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen, and jack of all Europeans. We eat little countries like this for breakfat and shit them out before lunch."

Of course, this guy should have punched me. But this was Europe. He just smiled his shabby, superior European smile. (God, don't these people have dentists?)





Too bad he's starting from a point of historical inaccuracy, and building his argument on a foundation of quicksand (typical conservative tactic, really). I guess O'Rourke has never heard of the War of 1812, in which British armies not only invaded, but sacked and burned Washington DC. It's okay, Americans are generally much dumber about their own history than the rest of the world is.

This Space For Rent!

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Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:30 AM

JONGSSTRAW


O'Rourke's quote is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. America is not, has never been, and will never be about any of that jingoistic crap that he spewed. Might doesn't make right, it never has. People wrapping themselves up in an American flag with delusions of moral superiority are as dangerous to me as anyone else.

The War of 1812 is a fascinating bit of American history. It's been in the news lately because they just found the sunken wreck that Perry commanded off the Eastern coast. Because his ship sank, he was re-assigned, and later defeated the British at the Battle of Lake Erie, a turning point in America's victory over England.








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Wednesday, January 12, 2011 10:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

those rights were granted by the King of England in 1689, ergo, they apply to Magon too, as a british subject.
Good one, DT. I also enjoyed O’Rourke’s comments, inaccurate as they were.
Quote:

fact that you are here railing against "the libs" means that we are doing the good and right thing.
was also most excellent, in my opinion...not that it will mean ANYTHING to him.

And “freedom to protect yourself” is invalid...the 2nd is about “freedom to carry a gun”. You have the RIGHT to self-defense and will not be prosecuted for same, but you were obviously referring to the 2nd, which isn’t about protecting yourself. Just nitpicking, ‘cuz I smiled when I read it, knowing to you they are the same thing---and more, as in “freedom to blow away whoever you don’t like/disagree with”

On the other hand, I agree with almost all the adjectives you listed, am proud of America and Americans in many of the ways for BEING some of those things.

We haven’t been invaded, and probably never will be, not because we are the baddest sonsobitches around, but because we are huge and no other country has yet, or probably will have, the ability to invade such a huge space, even if you don’t take our military might into consideration.

JS, yes:
Quote:

People wrapping themselves up in an American flag with delusions of moral superiority are as dangerous to me as anyone else.
You might add delusions of grandeur to that, as well!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:16 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
O'Rourke's quote is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. America is not, has never been, and will never be about any of that jingoistic crap that he spewed. Might doesn't make right, it never has. People wrapping themselves up in an American flag with delusions of moral superiority are as dangerous to me as anyone else.



P. J. O'Rourke is an American political satirist, journalist, writer, and humorist.
He is the author of 16 books, of which his latest, Don't Vote It Just Encourages the Bastards, was released in September 2010. This was preceded in 2009 by Driving Like Crazy. According to a 60 Minutes profile, he is also the most quoted living man in The Penguin Dictionary of Modern Humorous Quotations.

If you take what he writes seriously you are missing the hyperbole and the parody and the funny. He's a big kidder - he's actually mocking the people who believe the kind of stuff he wrote is true.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:05 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I posted this in another thread but I think I'll channel my inner Wulf and post it here. I think it's relevant.


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Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:42 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
O'Rourke's quote is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.



I think it's brilliant. Not necessarily *T*R*U*E*, but it's a wonderful piece of brag-- reads like that riverman brag in Huckleberry Finn, larger than life and funny in its exaggeration. And if it P.O.es the listeners or readers, that's just extra fun. It might give somebody a chance to find out if it's true or not.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:26 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
O'Rourke's quote is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. America is not, has never been, and will never be about any of that jingoistic crap that he spewed. Might doesn't make right, it never has. People wrapping themselves up in an American flag with delusions of moral superiority are as dangerous to me as anyone else.

The War of 1812 is a fascinating bit of American history. It's been in the news lately because they just found the sunken wreck that Perry commanded off the Eastern coast. Because his ship sank, he was re-assigned, and later defeated the British at the Battle of Lake Erie, a turning point in America's victory over England.












Sure, tell yourself that. Then go tell the 170 countries we have military bases in. We do talk louder, fight more, kill each other over parking spots and shoulder brushes. We eat food till we puke, can buy a car in 5 min. on an American express card, and have no manners. Why? we are the top of the food chain. Period. Lets be clear, most of the world dspise us and can do nothing, infact most help us(even if token) just to stay on the bullies side. I would say that the university of Alabama's football team could take on all of france in a fist fight....and win. Can you imagine a group of English soccer houligans trying that shit at a philidelphia eagles football game? They would not make it out alive.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Interesting that this one's still going on, as it was here three days ago when I was last here, yet has only 14 posts.

I'm with NewOld:
Quote:

I think it's brilliant. Not necessarily *T*R*U*E*, but it's a wonderful piece of brag-- reads like that riverman brag in Huckleberry Finn, larger than life and funny in its exaggeration. And if it P.O.es the listeners or readers, that's just extra fun. It might give somebody a chance to find out if it's true or not.
Don't think it will have the result he thinks it would provide anyone with a chance to find out, but I know some of it is true at least in how a lot of the rest of the world views us, and I've been overseas enough to see those things repeated by many Americans in places where other nationalities live and visit without exhibiting the same aspects.

Some of those which I observed: stupid (I would say “naïve” instead), kind, fair(er than some others), rich (which we truly ARE, compared to many countries. In Afghanistan when we were there, they thought ALL Americans were rich and had servants), funny (Afghans certainly found us such), multi-racial, crazy (again, as many Afghans believed...FROM OUR OWN ACTIONS), hopeful (combine that with “naïve”, insofar as we walked in, thinking we could “fix” other countries, and fucked it up completely), arrogant (DEFINITELY), open (in some cases). One of the biggest which was left out was "generous", which we are to a fault in our INDIVIDUAL dealings with people overseas. Not talking at ALL about our government, talking about individual Americans. Also not prejudiced to nearly the extent of many tourists, tho' we're not completely devoid of prejudice...those I saw who were tourists and many who lived in Afghanistan treated people decently, as opposed for example to how the British treated "natives", and still did to an extent when I observed them. Given we've been an empire and so were they, I give us points in that respect (in Asia at least).

On the other hand, I disagree in part with the last post:
Quote:

We do talk louder, fight more, kill each other over parking spots and shoulder brushes. We eat food till we puke, ... and have no manners.
If you’ll forgive the stereotypes, and remember that stereotypes exist because they are to a degree TRUE: The Italians are far louder, tho’ we’re quite loud enough. We “kill each other” over those things here at home, but I didn’t see anything LIKE that overseas). Other peoples eat the same way we do, some far moreso, and we exhibit FAR more manners when visiting other countries than many tourists from other countries do. I could list a number of negative (and positive) things we ARE NOT compared to other nationalities, too...



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:04 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Maybe you are also a country of individuals, who think and behave very differently from one another; of different cultures, with a wide variety of traditions and values; of different classes, with different life experiences and expectations; of different races who experience a variety of treatment from others; of different religious views, including no religious views at all, whose expectations of life and death and why and how we exist vary enormously.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Of course that's true...but I'm confused: Are you saying other countries AREN'T?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Of course that's true...but I'm confused: Are you saying other countries AREN'T?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off






Of course not, but the same could be said for Wulf's post.

Quote:

Us stupid, loud, aggressive, brave, kind, loyal, sweet, fair, unfair, poor, rich, hood, funny, religious, multi-racial, fake, real, intelligent, crazy, sane, gunslinging, knife-fighting, hopeful, arrogant, silly, childish, open, honest...


I could have posted that about Australians and numerous other countries as well (well except for the gunslinging). We're talking generalisations...for every loud, aggressive American, you probably have a shy, timid one. What I've found about the Americans I've met is that they are all DIFFERENT. I've met friendly americans, and Americans who are standoffish, nice ones and not so nice, funny ones and humourless ones, intellectual ones and idiots....etc etc etc

I travelled around Europe some years ago and met lots of Americans. They were, by and large, extremely nice and not at all how you guys kind of come across with your 'world image', being quite clever, interested and knowledgeable about other countries and cultires. What amused me most was their 'cultural cringe' about other Americans.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:02 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ah, I take your meaning. I agree 100%.

As to the cringing, yes, I watched that too, and sniggered. My mom did a LOT of cringing when she had to show American tourists around Kabul, especially when they'd pay outrageous (by Afghan standards) for things and she knew the shopkeepers were laughing (along with me). She took it more personally...but then, I was a kid.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:11 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I have that cringe about awful Aussies os as well, and there are plenty of them too.

Funny thing was, I was oblivious to the so called 'awful american', while my travel companions kept apoligising... (they are so loud, I'm sorry etc etc).

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:17 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhh, but maybe you're not aware of how MUCH we hear about how the rest of the world hates us. It makes one extra sensitive, trust me! You (or at least WE) never hear about "awful Aussies", but we get "The Ugly American" pretty consistently.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:41 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


A lot of tourists are pretty hideous, regardless of their nationalities, particularly when westerners visit poorer countries. They often adopt that vulgar raj attitude.. 'serve me, small dark one, because I have money and you have none'

I noticed that in Thailand recently, all the overweight, middle aged or even elderly european males surrounded by young Thai women and behaving like pratts. Yuk.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 2:17 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hee, hee, hee; now THAT one we didn't get! But yeah, I agree, I've seen that attitude too.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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