Egypt is Free by Wulfenstar

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Egypt is Free

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Monday, February 14, 2011 09:23
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VIEWED: 1888
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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:08 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"BREAKING: After 30 years of ruling Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak has stepped down. Following 18 days of pro-democracy protests, demonstrators are in the streets chanting "Egypt is free! Egypt is free!". What universal truths will they likely enshrine first, as our Founders did, in their new constitution?"

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

and just cus its funny. :)

Go Egypt, your make-or-break moment is here.

Welcome to the club.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:15 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:15 AM

DREAMTROVE

We'll see...

Nice recording, a little less Sussanah dominated than the later ones. Fame will do that, focus more on one. I saw them in concert, pretty awesome.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:18 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

We will see.

I know the buzzards are hovering over, squaking "Israel Israel"

But FUCK THEM.

A people just decided to be self determined.

And didn't need US to kill a bunch of people for it, either.

This is EPIC.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:28 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:30 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

You know, there are very few GOOD freedom songs.

Shame.

Oh well.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:35 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:36 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 11:48 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

They sent in the military, they hit them with tear gas, shot at them, they threw molotov cocktails... but the people just WOULD NOT QUIT.

This is so fucking cool.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 12:26 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Actually, Mubabarek has handed power to the ARMY, which supported the protestors.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 12:35 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Which is WHY the ARMY shot at the protestors, right?

Then stopped, when the majority of the army were like "WTF are you doing, these are OUR people..."

Sort of what might happen HERE.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, February 11, 2011 1:54 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Actually the military rank and file had said from the get go that they would not fire on protesters and it was the police that attacked them. Egypt has been and remains a military state, so what happens next is in the arms of the military who now have control. It's really a 'wait and see' situation.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 2:49 PM

KIRKULES

I have been very pessimistic about the future of Egypt lately, but now am semi-optimistic. I think we can thank the training that Egyptian military officers got in the USA for the posible democratic future of Egypt. They learned that the primary purpose of the military is to preserve democracy and that is why they defended Mubarak, the elected President. It looks to me like our investment in the Egyptian military was a good one.

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I came here first today and wrote a long post about the past few days' happenings, but it's not here!! First I was surprised the entire forum wasn’t on fire about this; feels to me like we’d rather argue about the petty things in the world than discuss a REAL real world ever which is history happening before our eyes. Seems a shame.

Me, I’ve been gone for over two days because I’ve been watching the developments virtually nonstop; it’s been amazing. I went to bed around 3:30 last night, because it was 6:30 Eastern and the morning shows had started. We were still getting live coverage (which I ONLY got all night on CNN), but I couldn’t sit through the morning-show crap. Naturally Mubarak stepped down while I was sleeping. But even up until then was pretty amazing.

I’m so proud of the Egyptican people...and especially their army. No matter how non-violent the protesters had stayed, it wouldn’t have worked without the army not being willing to get violent, and eventually pushing Mubarak out. But for that many people to manage, in the face of everything they experienced, to stay peaceful was just mindboggling, especially given how poor so many of them are. We couldn’t do it.

Pundits have been trying to wade through it all and I’m not sure they “get it” completely either. To me the whole thing was a game to Mubarak. First he sends in his secret police; the protesters pushed them off the streets. Then he “appoints” a new Vice President; they didn’t knuckle under. He keeps trying to blame it on the media and outside influences (more on that later); they don’t buy it. So then he sends in “pro-Mubarak protesters” to stir up violence; they fought back but as soon as the attacks stopped, went back to being nonviolent. He promises reforms; they spit in his face. Then he pulled that cute one last night, and in the end they WON! Magnificent...they have some terribly hard times ahead of them, but I wish them well. Protesters: 5; Mubarak: 0.

As you said, Wulf:

Quote:
They sent in the military, they hit them with tear gas, shot at them, they threw molotov cocktails... but the people just WOULD NOT QUIT.

This is so fucking cool.

THAT for all you “nuke ‘em, nuke ‘em all” cries of revolution. We couldn’t do what they did. They truly DID do the impossible, and we could all learn from them (you especially). Violence doesn’t solve everything!!!!

The last 24+ hours have been amazing, watching how he manipulated things. I believe he worked the whole situation. First he sends someone out to tell the protesters “your demands will be met”---carefully not saying WHAT demands, knowing everyone would assume his resignation. He lets ‘em stew for a day, get all fired up and exuberant, then pulls the rug out and says he’s staying, in about the most condescending, patriarchal, repetitively-maudlin way possible. Tahrir Square should have erupted in rage. They didn’t; they pulled blankets over their eyes and said “we’re not going anywhere”. So he sends out Suleman, to give out with the most autocratic, authoritarian statement yet: “Go home. Go back to work. Don’t listen to the TV, it’s just outside agitators”. All designed to stir up anger, knowing violence would be just the excuse he needed to crack down HARD. None of it worked. Protesters: 7; Mubarak: 0

There sits the military. They know if they fire on their own people, it’s all lost, the people will hate them and it will be a bloody riot. They tried to stay semi-neutral, but I don’t think they had any choice finally; back Mubarak and have to shoot friends and family, or back the protesters and get rid of Mubarak. I think Mubarak may have pulled a “hail Mary” pass on the people, the military AND us! Unless he had some sudden change of heart the last half hour before he spoke (and the pattern is just TOO perfect for me to believe that), he sent out signals to the world he was resigning, might have had even an agreement to that effect with the military, fired up the people, then said “Nope, I think I’ll stay”. The only one of the three he didn’t underestimate was us! We bought it hook, line and sinker, and looked stupid---made it look like we either had a hand In it or knew what was going to happen before anyone else. Then when he didn’t step down, we looked like we didn’t know shit from shinola. Personally, I think he “got” all three groups...but he got us best.

About the “outside agitator” thing. Did you see the thousands of flags, the way people were wearing the flag colors, painting themselves, etc.? I heard something about that. It seems the Egyptian flag hasn’t been seen in public much anymore, except at sports events, etc. Supposedly one of the reasons for so much flag and colors wasn’t JUST pride, it was also to say “We are Egyptians, we are not from outside, we are the PEOPLE of Egypt and this is what we want”. Might be partially true, might not, but I’d like to believe it’s true.

Nobody can say with authority where it goes from here...it’s certainly scary, but exciting, too. One of the pundits I heard said the Middle East has long believed it had only two choices: a US (or other) propped-up, repressive regime or an authoritarian, repressive theocracy. Egypt is trying to give them a third option; more power to ‘em.

I need to mention that I shifted between CNN, MSNBC AND Fox News. Their coverage was as good, and sometimes ahead of, both of the others...until they got to the “The Muslim Brotherhood is going to take over, they’re gonna GIT us!!!” bullshit. Yes, they’ll be part of it, but they’re a secular group which DECRIES Hamas, Hezbolah, and Muslim terrorism as being a “perversion of Islam”. Get real. I had a few things to say about that elsewhere, so I’ll let it go at that.

Magons,

Quote:
Actually, Mubabarek has handed power to the ARMY, which supported the protestors

Actually, the military handed Mubarak his walking papers, and Suleman is still technically “President”...for now at least. HE isn’t gone yet.

Wulf:

Quote:
Which is WHY the ARMY shot at the protestors, right?

Then stopped, when the majority of the army were like "WTF are you doing, these are OUR people..."

Sort of what might happen HERE.

Which world have you been living in??? The army never fired on the protesters, I know, I watched. First Mubarak’s POLICE attacked the protesters; the protesters wiped them out. Then the “pro-Mubarak” THUGS threw Molotov cocktails and rocks; the military fired in the air to separate the two groups and a couple of times drove tanks trailing smoke behind them between the two factions, to separate them and let them get away from one another. But the protesters fought back and in the end the thugs were called off. The military took no action during a lot of the ‘pro-Mubarak’ goons’ violence, but they didn’t FIRE on anyone. They said all along they wouldn’t fire on the protesters, and they held good to their promise.

Magons explained it perfectly, and accurately. That’s what’s REALLY happening.

And no, what would happen here is that the protesters would be violent first and everything would go up in flames, betcha, because while our military would probably HATE to fire on the protesters, they have before and would again, especially if it was a big uprising. We’re too gun-and-violence oriented to have the capability of doing what they did.

If you don’t think the American military would fire on citizens---especially citizens who were firing at THEM---check out The Battle of Blair Mountain, 1921 or the story of the Bonus Army, 1932 ( http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=177
10.0) There’s also the Ludlow Massacre ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre) okay, that was the national Guard...but...

However, look at some similarities, albeit MUCH smaller ones. In Egypt:

They have tremendously high unemployment...didn’t I hear 40% or something?
The divide between rich and poor is enormous
The government is riddled with corruption, cronyism and nepotism
Civil rights didn’t exist (okay, so ours are being “eroded”, still a corollary
Young people are graduating with no hope of jobs
They’re in a financial crisis

Can you think of any country with similar problems? I can...

So where are the jobs? How about we lessen the divide between uber rich and uber poor? How about we don't get rid of the other stuff like the Patriot Act, and take our civil liberties back? Remember "It's the economy, stupid"?

I thought the Republicans were in charge now...and were gonna fix everything?

[url]

]
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:26 PM

DREAMTROVE

Niki

Use the beta

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Friday, February 11, 2011 3:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Meaning????

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, February 11, 2011 4:27 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Are you posting videos Wulf? Because I still can't see some. Are they Youtube videos? If so I'd like to know how to get around that.

Oh, and this is great for them, but where will it lead. Guess we'll see soon enough.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
~~~~If I'm a bitch, life just got interesting.~~~~~

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Friday, February 11, 2011 5:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

We'll see what happens next. Will you still support the Egyptian people if they exercise their "freedom" to freely elect a theocratic Muslim government akin to Hamas?

That allegedly U.S.-trained military that was supposed to support Mubarak and keep him in power? It seems in the end, they sided with THE PEOPLE of Egypt, not with the rich. There were numerous reports of the military running interference FOR the people, keeping the secret police at bay, even deploying the smoke generators on their tanks in order to block the police and security forces from being able to get a clear shot at the protesters.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:00 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Meaning????

Google fireflyfans beta
Or go to beta.fireflyfans.net

Its Hakens second version of the site. It fixes some of the bugs on the first version.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:28 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I came here first today and wrote a long post about the past few days' happenings, but it's not here!!

Niki, DT is talking about how you lost your post. FFF beta works more reliably than regular FFF. I switched too, because I was getting too many glitches posting in the other one.

This is my new bookmark for FFF.

http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mboard.aspx?bid=18

-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 5:56 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
They sent in the military, they hit them with tear gas, shot at them, they threw molotov cocktails... but the people just WOULD NOT QUIT...

... or shoot back. Does this successful revolution without weapons make you rethink your ideology on how to bring about Change in the modern world? Or do you still subscribe to revolution 1776 style?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:17 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

CIA torture kingpin is Egypt's current President of Vice. Military is now in control of martial law. Israel gets their gas for free. Muslim Brotherhood is a British Military Intelligence psyop. They live on $2/day while their dictator runs off with $70-billion (or his CIA Mossad handlers do).

Egypt is fucked.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 6:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Funny how what goes around comes around - many of the army units on station, due to confusion, corruption and incompetence on behalf of of the government leadership, were running very, very low on supplies, especially food and water.

One might recall a couple incidents, not all that long ago, of Egyptian troops refusing to close off tunnels and starve Palestinians deprived of basic necessities by Israels inhumane blockade, yes ?

And yet those Palestinians, who have so very little, upon learning of the situation were right there, offering to share all they have.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54407

Quote:
The plans and schemes of tyrants are broken by many things. They shatter against cliffs of heroic struggle. They rupture on reefs of open resistance. And they are slowly eroded, bit by little bit, on the very beaches where they measure triumph, by countless grains of sand. By the stubborn little decencies of humble little men.
-David Drake: In the Heart of Darkness

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:09 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
One might recall a couple incidents, not all that long ago, of Egyptian troops refusing to close off tunnels and starve Palestinians deprived of basic necessities by Israels inhumane blockade, yes ?

And yet those Palestinians, who have so very little, upon learning of the situation were right there, offering to share all they have.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54407

Yes, I remember. And this story made my day.

-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:25 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
CIA torture kingpin is Egypt's current President of Vice.

Just found this story.

https://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2011/02/12/who-suleiman-really-is-by
-one-of-his-victims/

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Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:33 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Interesting article about Obama's patterns of leadership. I tend to agree.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1297507641

Quote:
WHEN CONFRONTED with a new situation, Obama’s first response is generally admirable. Then, it seems, second thoughts set in. And third. And fourth. The end result is a 180 degree turn. When the masses started to gather in Tahrir Square, he reacted exactly like most decent people in the US and, indeed, throughout the world. There was unbounded admiration for those brave young men and women who faced the dreaded Mukhabarat secret police, demanding democracy and human rights. How could one not admire them?

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Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Monday, February 14, 2011 9:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I can't imagine how one would't admire what they've done, either, or the courage it took.

And yes to Obama...tho' in this case I think there's more to it. Pressure; worries about the situation with Israel had something to do with it, I'm sure, as well as TPTB liking the status quo. I was ashamed to see him jump on the bandwagon, but in the end he was forced to accept the change and hopefully it will be okay for the US as well as Egypt. We shall see.

It sickens me to see FauxNews and other Republicans go on and on about the Muslim Brotherhood...more fear stoking and an indication to me just how turned around they are. Whether it's good for US or not, to have Egypt freed from Mubarak and able to pursue REAL democracy is just something I cannot view negatively, while they seem to have absolutely no problem whatsoever finding something in it to fear and hate. Amazing.

But in my opinion, he's too wishy-washy in that he lets himself be pushed into positions I don't believe he'd take if he was on his own. Like this cow-towing to business; my gawd, like he hasn't bent over backwards for them already and given in left and right...to go almost crawling to the Chamber (after all the bullshit THEY've done especially!!!) just gauls the hell out of me.

And yeah, by chance I happened on that website thanks to "Two" I think, and it's great. I've always had this version bookmarked, so it always came up. I'm going to use the other one from now on, but keep a bookmark for this one, 'cuz there are a few things I like that aren't on the new one, particularly in the member "profiles".

Aside from that, tho', I'm THERE, and thanx for telling me about it.

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