REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The New American Pessimism

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Thursday, March 31, 2011 13:40
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2404
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:19 PM

CANTTAKESKY


http://tinyurl.com/47yza7d

Quote:

I can’t remember when I last heard someone genuinely optimistic about the future of this country. I discount politicians, investment bankers and generals since their line of work requires that they offer upbeat assessments of everything from our deteriorating economy to our suicidal wars, and assorted narcissists accustomed to shutting their eyes to the plight of their fellow Americans. The outright prophets of doom and gloom among our friends and acquaintances tended to be a rare breed until recently. They were mostly found among the elderly, whose lives had an inordinate share of tragedies and disappointments, so one didn’t take their bleak outlook as applicable to the rest of us. One encountered inveterate optimists, idealists, or even Niebuhrian realists in the past; now, one finds people of all ages and backgrounds eager to tell you how screwed up everything is, and, on a more personal note, what a difficult time they are having—not just making ends meet, but understanding why the country they thought they knew has become unrecognizable.

Just look at the assault on the rights of state workers that Wisconsin’s new governor Scott Walker and a group of state senators have rammed through a rump legislature without any debate. The same approach is now spreading to several other states in the heartland. In the new USA, teachers, union workers, women, children, the unemployed and the hopeless are the cause of unsustainable deficits, and a dog-eat-dog philosophy that is supposed to make us great again prevails.

It must be difficult for any hostess nowadays to stop her dinner guests from reciting to each other over the course of an evening the endless examples of lies and stupidities they’ve come across in the press and on TV. As they get more and more wound up, they try to outdo each other, losing all interest in the food on their plates. I know that when I get together with friends, we make a conscious effort to change the subject and talk about grandchildren, reminisce about the past and the movies we’ve seen, though we can’t manage it for very long. We end up disheartening and demoralizing each other and saying goodnight, embarrassed and annoyed with ourselves, as if being upset about what is being done to us is not a subject fit for polite society.

In an atmosphere of growing anxiety and hysteria, in which the true causes and the scale of our dire national predicament are deliberately concealed and obfuscated by our political establishment and by the corporate media, no wonder there’s confusion and anger everywhere. As anyone who has traveled around this country and talked to people knows, Americans are not just badly informed, but downright ignorant about most things that affect their lives. How nice it would be if our President leveled with us and told us that our deficit is caused in significant part by the wars we are fighting in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the hundreds of military bases we are maintaining around the world, the huge tax breaks for the rich, and the bailout of Wall Street. As we know, we are not about to hear anything of the kind.

By the president’s calculation, telling the truth to the American people would doom his reelection campaign, since he would not be able to raise the billion dollars he needs this time around. The kind of people who have that kind of money and will agree to contribute to his campaign know very well what informed voters in a working democracy would to do to them once they understood just who has depleted the national treasury to line their own pockets. No doubt, he and his political party will do anything to avoid the truth and will propose outwardly attractive solutions—like the health care bill that not only expands coverage but greatly benefits insurance companies and does little to reduce healthcare costs. They hope that these kinds of measures will lure the majority of voters who won’t bother to learn the details, but they will also send a clear signal to the moneyed classes that they won’t be inconvenienced in the least.

As for those who continue to insist that there’s something fundamentally wrong with a democracy that doesn’t address the ever-growing income inequality the sheer madness of our open-ended military ventures in Afghanistan, the miseries of the sick and unemployed, the suffering of the near destitute and of the children and the old, they’ll be dismissed as being unrealistic in present circumstances and reminded that with the other party in power things would be even worse. The reason pessimists are multiplying is that we dishonor the intellect and the knowledge of history in this country by refusing to admit that corruption is the source of our ills. It takes no great mental effort to realize that there’s no effective political forces either in Washington or locally that are able to do anything serious to correct our self-delusions about being the world’s policeman, because any sensible solution would seriously cut into profits of this or that interest group.

They say the monkey scratches its fleas with the key that opens its cage. That may strike one as being very funny or very sad. Unfortunately, that’s where we are now.



I found this commentary interesting, as well as the comments beneath it.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I wish the link were shorter, so the text of the article would wrap a bit better. I have to do lots and lots of side-scrolling to read it. Blame my failing eyes...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:13 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Mike, I've changed the above link with a short one. :)



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Awesome! Thanks!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 5:42 PM

HARDWARE


There's a saying that no empire lasts more than 300 years. If so, we've just about run our course.

Then there's the old saw by Claire Wolfe; "America is at that awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

She said that in '97 or so. I'm wondering if it isn't time yet.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 6:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


We can always sell tickets to watch half the people kill the other half. It seemed to cheer up the Romans a mite...

Or just keep blaming the public school teachers for taking all those TARP funds, and for starting our disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. If only those darned teachers hadn't run up the national debt so high while the economy was on fire!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 29, 2011 6:51 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I know right? F@#kin teachers. And those music teachers are the worst! It's a good thing we've finally gotten around to firing them all. All this music and art in the schools, it's destroying our culture!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I hear ya, HT. Wouldn't it be something if teachers got all the resources and bailouts, and banks had to hold a bake sale to buy a congressman?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:23 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I hear ya, HT. Wouldn't it be something if teachers got all the resources and bailouts, and banks had to hold a bake sale to buy a congressman?

ROFL. I'd pay to see that!



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA



*laughs darkly*
You start from the failed presumption that the bastards even know how to bake...

I don't think it's a matter of pessimism as finally being honest with ourselves, and it's about damn time - admitting the problems is step one towards solving them.

Of course, I got a few ideas involving ovens and bankers for that myself... and HEY LOOK, Brownies....


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:57 AM

DREAMTROVE



well, let's see. The US now have more of it's population devoted to policing in controlling the population through every venue than Nazi Germany. Hell, we spend more on war, we've killed more people, and we're stating a world war. I don't know why anyone wouldn't be filled with hope


Hope is like patriotism, it's what they give you when they really have nothing to offer. The TV is on in the waiting room. What a bucket of fear.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:48 AM

HKCAVALIER


I think a lot of the New Pessimism is born of people everywhere having more or less constant access to more and more of exactly what our government--and other ruling bodies--are doing 24/7. In Arabic nations you get revolution; in America you get profound disillusionment and hopelessness. The dream of a Capitalist Utopia is finally dying and America is mourning the only way we know how.

NOTHING that's being done by our government or by the President hasn't been SOP for decades. People act as if President Obama invented out of control spending and the spiralling debt. Clinton bombed Libya whenever the mood struck him and no one in this country (outside the military community) knew or cared. The government is conducting business as usual; it's our understanding of what that business is that's changed. The world is in the throes of information shock. Facts are becoming harder and harder to ignore, while at the same time, lies are proliferating more quickly than ever.

The low information voters on the right are having the hardest time adjusting. If you have crazy, fundamentalist, fantastical notions about the way the universe and our government get things done, it's a lot easier to live in peace if the majority opinion that thinks you're wacko is kept vague and homogeneous. You don't want to have the likes of Wolf Blitzer openly mocking you on prime time television. I'm certain Presidential candidates have held absurd religious beliefs throughout our nation's history, but no one cared to ask them before this last election cycle.

I believe the sudden exposure has pushed a lot of people to become more extreme in their views as a defense of their very way of life. It's not so much about whether Barack Obama is a secret Kenyan, it's about the birthers being loud and proud about their righteous madness. They've never let the facts get in their way before, why should they stop now?

The left want a Nanny State and the right want a Daddy State. But there are no nannies or daddies that can come in now and kiss our owies and make 'em better. Our owies are far too consequential for merely ceremonial solutions. But ceremonial solutions are all we've known since forever. Hijinks ensue.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:30 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I find this very similar to our politics



obviously, it's not as cute when they are older

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:42 PM

PENGUIN


Or as intelligent...





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Of course, I got a few ideas involving ovens and bankers for that myself... and HEY LOOK, Brownies....





Hey, bank CEO, see if you can reach that one - the one WAAAAYYY in the back of the giant oven!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:26 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The U.S. is pouring shiploads of cash into yet another war, this time in Libya, while simultaneously demolishing school budgets, closing libraries, laying off teachers, and generally letting the bottom fall out of the quality of life here at home.

The U.S. has misplaced its priorities. The most powerful country on Earth finds it so easy to plunge into warfare but impossible to find adequate work for its people or to properly educate its young.

The Economic Policy Institute has reported that the richest 10 percent of Americans received 100 percent of the average income growth in the years 2000 to 2007, the most recent extended period of economic expansion. Americans behave as if this is normal and acceptable. It didn’t used to be. Through much of the post-World War II era, income distribution was far more equitable, with the top 10 percent accounting for just a third of average income growth, and the bottom 90 percent receiving two-thirds. That seems like ancient history now.

In 2009, the richest 5 percent claimed 63.5 percent of the wealth. Overwhelming imbalances in wealth and income inevitably result in enormous imbalances of political power. So the very wealthy continue to do well. The employment crisis never gets addressed. The wars never end. And nation-building never gets a foothold at home.

If you take a global perspective then 2011 is the best of times. It’s doubtful that the human race has ever been as prosperous or as free as it is today, and the prospects for further progress look good, but the wave of global success only underscores the frustration and tragedy of America’s recent failures. This richer, freer, better world should have been opening up horizons of opportunity for the U.S. http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2011/03/bob-herberts-last-column/
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, bank CEO, see if you can reach that one - the one WAAAAYYY in the back of the giant oven!

Assassination Mission www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=23385


The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:54 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
The U.S. is pouring shiploads of cash into yet another war, this time in Libya, while simultaneously demolishing school budgets, closing libraries, laying off teachers, and generally letting the bottom fall out of the quality of life here at home.

The U.S. has misplaced its priorities. The most powerful country on Earth finds it so easy to plunge into warfare but impossible to find adequate work for its people or to properly educate its young.



So well said and it seems so obvious. I'm almost to the point where I believe DT about TPTB and a new world war.
The irony of Obama's big Monday speech, his weak attempt at sounding noble "We will not sit idly by..." also means, "(This Administration) WILL sit idly by while it's own people suffer..."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:28 AM

BYTEMITE


Do we need to find a scary tale wood somewhere and bake Frem a gingerbread house? Because that sounds fun.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:03 AM

DREAMTROVE


One thing I'm most confident about is that US policy is being directed by something other than the will or best interests of its people.

Whatever you make of underlying forces at work, the pattern is pretty clear: The US is getting repeatedly militarily involved in the overthrow of regimes of nations that won't sign international trade agreements, to which end we are pouring the lions share of resources, and have been doing so increasingly since the 1990s.

Considering that the US is no longer a major exporter, and is internally falling apart as an economy, with a rapidly decaying currency, it seems hard to credit that forcing foreign powers to sign international trade agreements is not worth the effort for us that we are putting into it, and I'm increasingly skeptical that it is in our best interests at all.

Anyone might recall that when I came here five years ago I was more or less in favor of international trade agreements. Now I find myself increasingly opposed. The idea of free trade is not without merit, but to the end where a country loses control of its own economy, be it us or some nation in which we interfere, it's definitely a detriment, and at the moment, the existence of such agreements is not benefiting the United States, and I don't see where it will be in the foreseeable future.



ETA: I would also humbly suggest that when, as a military conflict approaches and escalates, new information about the evilness of the leaders of said nations, or the atrocities there within, should be discarded out of hand as propaganda. Sure, there may be a shred of truth within them (though sometimes not) but it generally does not represent change, policy, or anything important.

To wit, a story my sister sent me from a couple years ago in the US about a teacher who killed a student after school, because the student had spoken out of turn in class.

Objectively, we can look at such a story and think "Well, the situation probably escalated from there, maybe there was a history, there are pieces missing from this story, but in any event: What a psycho!"

Now, imagine how such a story might run if Hamas, Fars, or any mainstay mideast non-english publication got ahold of it. I can see the headline now:

"How the Education System in America Really Works"


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:36 AM

JONGSSTRAW


75 years ago things in America and the world must have looked pretty bleak and hopeless. America and the world were suffering through the worst economic depression in history; armed forces of fascism and world dominance were on the march. Japan had invaded China and Manchuria; Italy was at war in Africa, and Nazi Germany was annexing Austria, Czechoslovakia, and on the march in Northern Africa. One out of 4 Americans couldn't find work. It must have seemed hopeless back then to the average person struggling to feed and clothe his family.

But America and the free world did survive. We defeated the forces of enslavement and genocide, and our economy roared back in a period of growth and expansion that the world had never seen before.

The spirit of America will never die, and hopefully we'll conquer our problems in time, and pass on a country that our children and grandchildren can flourish in.









NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:52 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
75 years ago things in America and the world must have looked pretty bleak and hopeless. America and the world were suffering through the worst economic depression in history; armed forces of fascism and world dominance were on the march. Japan had invaded China and Manchuria; Italy was at war in Africa, and Nazi Germany was annexing Austria, Czechoslovakia, and on the march in Northern Africa. One out of 4 Americans couldn't find work. It must have seemed hopeless back then to the average person struggling to feed and clothe his family.

But America and the free world did survive. We defeated the forces of enslavement and genocide, and our economy roared back in a period of growth and expansion that the world had never seen before.

The spirit of America will never die, and hopefully we'll conquer our problems in time, and pass on a country that our children and grandchildren can flourish in.

In the last 75 years there has been some peculiar ideals that have become part of the "spirit of American". In 2002, Duane Clarridge wrote a book about his clandestine work for the CIA, and as part of his book tour, he was interviewed by the Australian journalist John Pilger. The clip below from that interview is a summary of the foreign policy of the U.S. over the last several decades and especially the mindset driving and justifying it. "Get used to it, world."



Duane Clarridge was a CIA agent and clandestine program supervisor for more than three decades. He gained notoriety for his mid-1980s role in the Iran-contra scandal for which he was pardoned by Bush 41 in the middle of his trial. But Clarridge is no obsolete relic of the past. As The New York Times detailed, he formed his "own private CIA" after leaving the actual CIA and -- until May 2010 when his funding ended -- was repeatedly contracted by the U.S. Government to engage in covert acts, including fielding operatives in the mountains of Pakistan and the desert badlands of Afghanistan. - www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/world/23clarridge.html

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Amazing, someone actually got one of my three layer esoteric jokes.
(layer three was baiting DT with the G-word)

Hmm, gingerbread.

I wish I had pictures of when my niece tried to build a gingerbread house, tee hee, it looked like a crumbling redneck shack, and I put a little "CONDEMNED" notice on it with a post it note after she went to bed - she was a bit annoyed over that next morning, she was.

I built her a really nice one the year after that though.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:48 AM

BYTEMITE


And with that, I have invented a new decorative use for black licorice wheels!

I'd be Gretel. It's a house made out of gingerbread, frosting and candy. Damn the load bearing supports, full teeth ahead.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:30 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
75 years ago things in America and the world must have looked pretty bleak and hopeless.



And it was 1936.

1937, the US, USSR, and Germany would launch an undeclared war on Japan on the Chinese mainland. That would be the bloodiest war ever fought.
1938, Germany would invade Austria, launching a world war in Europe that would claim almost as many lives.
1939 Gemany and Russia invaded Poland, launching a massive genocide that would kill 11 million.
[the war, every year, million more dead.]
1945, we had invented and deployed nuclear bombs.
1946, the US starts nuking Pacific islands, exterminating species and making the planet radioactive.
By 1948, we were launched in an arms race with Russia that lead to the creation of arsenals, the whereabouts of unknown, that could destroy the planet.
1949, Mao launched a war to conquer Asia, which he calls China, with Soviet support; a war so bloody it displaces WWII for the title.
1950, the US goes to war with China over Korea, creating a situation where a nuclear armed lunatic is threatening the US, S. Korea and Japan
1955, France goes to war with China in Vietnam. The resulting casualties put the communist war for global domination at ten times the size of the holocaust.

So, yes, things looked pretty bleak. In the intervening 75 years, more than half of all species on earth have become extinct at human hands. 1.25 billion people have been killed, the equivalent of all of India, or China, or, in 1936 terms, the population of all of the countries mentioned above put together.

In addition, the majority of the world's forests would be lost, the majority of seas emptied, the drinking water polluted, and human freedoms curtailed towards zero as we approach the global dominance of a one world ruling elite.

In 1936, America's wealthiest 1% of the population held between 5%-10% of the nation's wealth. Now they hold between 90% and 99%.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:08 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, that scrolling problem is something I wrote Haken about, because I had the same problem. He said it was because my signature was too big to fit, so nothing scrolled properly. I don’t see any problem with your sig, but if it’s happening to you a lot, let Haken know. He’s still working on v.2 and constantly making improvements. Since I changed the size of the graphic in my sig, it works fine for me (unless PN or someone posts a big picture, in which case their post doesn’t wrap for me). He explained it was something about screen size, I think.
Quote:

There's a saying that no empire lasts more than 300 years. If so, we've just about run our course.
Been sayin’ that for years now...all the signs are there that have been there historically before an empire crumbles, so we’ve been crumbling for a while now...
Quote:

Wouldn't it be something if teachers got all the resources and bailouts, and banks had to hold a bake sale to buy a congressman?
NICE one, Mike, changing “to go to war” to “to buy a congressman”...very apropos!

I find it hard to believe that other countries’ unwillingness to sign agreements is what’s behind everything, DT; as usual, I reject your theory’s generalizations, and I think the machinations of the world are more than just black and white or attributable in whole or even for the most part to one aspect of international policy.

As far as the whole “pessimism” thing goes, I think there are a lot of things at work. I would point back to the age of Kennedy; it was often said after his death that America had “lost its innocence”...the same was said after Watergate. Either way, I think it’s quite possible that several things are at work, one being that whereas in the past average people didn’t pay much attention to politics, losing our innocence has caused us to pay more attention (whether we like it or not!) and perhaps become more...dare I say “mature”?...in our view of our government. Cynical, naturally, but I think the cynicism is partly a result of growing up and paying attention (tho’ you wouldn’t believe that holds true, given what so many are willing to swallow and to follow these days...).

I can tell you that in the '50s, politics wasn't at the forefront as much as it is now by a BIG margin...maybe that was partly because women had only recently become involved in it (aware of it?), but in the '50s, politics and the workings of the government weren't nearly the topics of discussion they are now. From my observations, anyway.

DT, good points, all of them, in this last one. Sad to have to say that, but you’re right...I would say, however, that in those times, again, people didn’t pay as much attention to government or its workings, whereas now they do...just my opinion. Back then “American exceptionalism” had never been challenged, and “we” really believed in it. Since then, Vietnam and all, we’ve had our pride handed to us on a platter and come to realize that we CAN’T just meander into any country and come out victorious. I think if you take away a people’s belief in their own superiority (even if only subconsciously), their own ability to be safe within their own country (9/11), there’s a good chance they’ll turn to blame their government for not doing “everything” they expect of it. Just how I see it.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
One thing I'm most confident about is that US policy is being directed by something other than the will or best interests of its people.

Whatever you make of underlying forces at work, the pattern is pretty clear: The US is getting repeatedly militarily involved in the overthrow of regimes of nations that won't sign international trade agreements, to which end we are pouring the lions share of resources, and have been doing so increasingly since the 1990s.

Considering that the US is no longer a major exporter, and is internally falling apart as an economy, with a rapidly decaying currency, it seems hard to credit that forcing foreign powers to sign international trade agreements is not worth the effort for us that we are putting into it, and I'm increasingly skeptical that it is in our best interests at all.

Anyone might recall that when I came here five years ago I was more or less in favor of international trade agreements. Now I find myself increasingly opposed. The idea of free trade is not without merit, but to the end where a country loses control of its own economy, be it us or some nation in which we interfere, it's definitely a detriment, and at the moment, the existence of such agreements is not benefiting the United States, and I don't see where it will be in the foreseeable future.



ETA: I would also humbly suggest that when, as a military conflict approaches and escalates, new information about the evilness of the leaders of said nations, or the atrocities there within, should be discarded out of hand as propaganda. Sure, there may be a shred of truth within them (though sometimes not) but it generally does not represent change, policy, or anything important.

To wit, a story my sister sent me from a couple years ago in the US about a teacher who killed a student after school, because the student had spoken out of turn in class.

Objectively, we can look at such a story and think "Well, the situation probably escalated from there, maybe there was a history, there are pieces missing from this story, but in any event: What a psycho!"

Now, imagine how such a story might run if Hamas, Fars, or any mainstay mideast non-english publication got ahold of it. I can see the headline now:

"How the Education System in America Really Works"


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.



Let's see, we're hearing lots of "intel" from sources with names like "Curveball" (Kidding about that, almost) claiming that Khadafi himself ordered the Lockerbie bombing (which Bush forgave and forgot already), we're hearing about his "WMD" projects, we're hearing that he's currently actively engaging in terrorist acts, we're hearing about genocide and atrocities, we're hearing that our involvement in Libya will be over in a matter of days, weeks at most... All that's left is for them to tell us it will cost us no more than a billion dollars, and then they can hang up the "Mission Accompliced!" banner for the photo ops!





If you ever said "Support the Troops!", you are a socialist. You've taken money from me, by force and at gunpoint, and you've given it to people who are on a mission I don't support, and are murdering others in my name, and I am given no choice in the matter.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, March 31, 2011 1:40 PM

DREAMTROVE


Mike

Obama said it in his Mar. 28th speech, this isn't going to cost the taxpayer any money, because the international community will help out. That's word for word what he said when he was wearing the Bush Chimp suit instead of this cool cat from the Windy City costume.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
MAGA movement
Sat, November 23, 2024 16:37 - 11 posts
More Cope: David Brooks and PBS are delusional...
Sat, November 23, 2024 16:32 - 1 posts
List of States/Governments/Politicians Moving to Ban Vaccine Passports
Sat, November 23, 2024 16:27 - 168 posts
Once again... a request for legitimate concerns...
Sat, November 23, 2024 16:22 - 17 posts
Where is the 25th ammendment when you need it?
Sat, November 23, 2024 15:41 - 12 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sat, November 23, 2024 15:10 - 4757 posts
What's wrong with conspiracy theories
Sat, November 23, 2024 15:07 - 19 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Sat, November 23, 2024 14:38 - 945 posts
Convicted kosher billionaire makes pedophile Roman Polanski blush
Sat, November 23, 2024 13:46 - 34 posts
The worst Judges, Merchants of Law, Rogue Prosecutors, Bad Cops, Criminal Supporting Lawyers, Corrupted District Attorney in USA? and other Banana republic
Sat, November 23, 2024 13:39 - 50 posts
FLEE CALIFORNIA!
Sat, November 23, 2024 13:32 - 154 posts
Hollywood expensive movies & Tv shows keep crashing, Sportsball and LeBron...what will be the next box office Flop?
Sat, November 23, 2024 13:11 - 83 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL