Car Shopping. Or Not. by Kwicko

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Car Shopping. Or Not.

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Monday, May 2, 2011 19:12
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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:19 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

On a whim, and having a decent raise in pocket, I stopped into my local Honda dealer yesterday. I was hoping they had a new Honda CR-Z in stock that I could take a look at, and maybe finagle a test drive. I'm fairly well-known to my Honda dealer, since I tend to order parts in bulk through them, and they've been after me for years to trade in my favorite CRX on something newer, or to at least loan them the CRX to put on display in the showroom.

The CR-Z is intended to be the spiritual successor to the beloved CRX, or at least that's what Honda claims. But it's also a hybrid, so mileage should be great.

The CR-Z:

The 2nd-generation CRX:

Sure enough, they had one in stock, a pretty red one. I wasted no time trying it on; I can generally remove about 75% of new cars from my shopping list just by trying to get into them. At 6'8", many's the car that I just don't fit in - either can't fold my legs under the dash, or can't wedge my head under the roof unless I turn it about 90º!

Surprise, surprise - I slide into the 2-seat subcompact CR-Z quite easily. I've noticed that the size of the car generally has little to do with whether or not I fit in it. Most Toyotas, including their trucks and SUVs, and even their Lexus luxury brand, are just cut too small for my legs. Most Hondas, on the other hand, fit me quite well. The mid-engine exotic NS-X is a skoche tight on headroom, but I can manage (and it's well worth the sacrifice if you've never driven one!). The convertible S2000 just wasn't meant for me, though. I could ride shotgun in one - BARELY - but there was just no way I could drive it. My shins caught on the underside of the dash, and I couldn't straighten them to reach the pedals. Bummer. 240hp, perfect weight distribution, 9000 rpm - that car called to me in a way I hated to not be able to answer. :(

So I can fit in the CR-Z. Kind of. There's a large cut-out in the center console, and the under-dash "knee bolsters" stop when they reach that cut-out. Unfortunately for me, that's also where my right knee wants to reside - which is fine, until I rotate my right foot on its heel to reach the brake pedal, at which time my shin just below the knee, meets the hard plastic knee bolster in a sharp contact. Ouch. That's a deal-killer, Honda.

The instrument panel looks very well laid-out, and the interior seems to be of quite high-quality soft-touch materials, very unlike the uber-cheap hard-plastic hollow-sounding dashboard of the recent EP-bodied Civic Si hatchback. The view out the back, through the rearview mirror, is atrocious. Honda decided to do a callback to the CRX with its signature "split-window" hatch, and failed miserably. On the original, the idea was that you'd be able to see quite well what was behind you through the near-horizontal hatch glass, but you'd also be able to use the small vertical glass panel below that for extra visibility when backing up. After decades driving these small cars and never backing into anything, I can attest to how well it works. On the CRX, anyway.

On the CR-Z, the hatch glass is even more horizontal, giving a very slim gun-turret view of the road behind, and the vertical panel is much larger, and the metal crossbar between them is now much thicker - and it has an added rear spoiler grafted onto it, creating about a 4"-thick blind spot that perfectly bisects the horizon behind you, blocking your view of any car more than about 50' behind you. If you speed, you definitely will not see the cops pacing you.

Which may not be a real problem, since the car is, according to all road tests, quite slow. My li'l "classic" CRX (with a few choice bolt-on mods and some internal engine and transmission work) will do 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. Back in the day, a stock Si model would pull it in 8.0 to 8.5, depending on who was testing it. The CR-Z crawls to 60 in 10 to 11 seconds - about 50% longer than I'm used to waiting.

But that's because it's a hybrid, and you have to sacrifice some performance to get great mileage, right? Well... not so much. I routinely get 30mpg around town, and up to around 46mpg on the highway (if I run 80mph with the A/C on, that is). The new car doesn't really better the city figure (which is where hybrids are supposed to excel), and it does WORSE on the highway.

So I'm heartened and heartbroken, both at the same time. Honda is upping the build quality on their small cars again, but they're also ditching the enthusiast market, leaving behind the folks who cherished their previous efforts at a small, fun "city car".

Meanwhile, maybe I'll put that money towards some Hyundai stock instead of a new Honda.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:49 PM

HARDWARE

A new car purchase seldom works out financially, provided your old car was sound mechanically. My current pickup gets 13-14 mpg around town and 20 on the highway. However, it is fully paid for. Adding a more economical car doesn't work and I need a pickup. Unfortunately I also need to carry three and a two door pickup doesn't work. I could lose the 4wd, but not economically since my truck is paid for.

Gas would have to stay over $4 a gallon for 3 years in order for it to make much sense for me to replace my truck.

Sorry about the Honda but the marketplace, like nature, abhors a vacuum. Someone else will fill the niche for a small performance car that gets decent mileage.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:22 PM

KWICKO

Heck, a new car purchase rarely works out financially just because of normal depreciation. I generally buy my Hondas around 10 years old, sometimes less, but usually around there. I've been waiting 20 years for them to come up with something comparable to the old CRX, so was a bit excited at the possibility of taking the plunge and buying a brand new one (sticker on it was $22k and change, nicely optioned, which wouldn't be too bad).

But if I'm going to crash my shins every drive, and suffer permanent bruising to drive a new car, then suddenly my old car begins to look a whole lot better.

My old CRX is fairly sound mechanically, but is definitely getting "tired" now. 20 years, 185k on the body and 240k on the engine, it could use a break. I'll more likely pick up a Mazda in the meantime, and then try to work out a plan for a full restoration of at least one of my CRXs, possibly using parts from both of my current ones. There's a Barbados Yellow '90 Si in my garage that was a one-owner car when I bought it - never wrecked, never rebuilt, but with a blown headgasket - and it's absolutely PERFECT inside, but the paint is faded now, so it needs a paint job quite badly. Yellow is not an easy color to keep fresh, even in the best of circumstances, and this was an outdoor car in the Texas sun for a time!

It's got a Japanese-market twin-cam 1.6 liter engine in it, good for an easy 135hp when compared to the stock U.S.-market's 108hp, so that makes it a bit more fun than a standard model. Any other mods to either car are confined completely to hidden goodies - the cars appear completely stock to the casual observer. Someone who really knew the cars would notice that the burgundy one is a DX-only color, but has a full Si interior and drivetrain, which would be a bit of a tip-off. They'd have to drive it to really notice the differences, though - custom short-geared transmission with a taller overdrive for highway mileage and quieter cruising, lightweight flywheel, underdrive accessory pulleys, aftermarket "Stage One" cam with higher lift and longer duration, and then if they really went digging they'd find the hand-polished ports, the bored-out throttlebody, and the balanced forged connecting rods and domed racing pistons.

The real trick pieces are in the suspension, where I had a devil of a time tracking down springs and struts I was happy with. I don't care for the "slammed" look, or the way the cars behave when lowered that much, so I had to look long and hard for springs that were a bit stiffer - but not TOO stiff - and struts that were multi-adjustable. Fatter anti-roll bars front and rear keep things glued down, and I found a set of Acura 15" wheels which are identical to some of the optional CRX wheels, but 1" larger in diameter, which allows a shorter sidewall height and wider contact patch for a more direct handling response and improved grip.

Somewhere around here I've still got an old Mugen limited-slip differential for the transmission, and I sourced a 4.43:1 final drive out of a Japanese-market Honda Integra to quicken the responses even more.

Best part is, the car still passes emissions testing with flying colors, gets GREAT gas mileage, and just flat walks away from newer "hot hatches". And its street value is still pretty close to what I've put into it, unlike any new car you can buy.

But I'm still tempted, of course.

I kinda dig the Hyundai Veloster which should bow later this summer.

http://www.motorward.com/2011/01/official-hyundai-veloster-coupe/

Hyundai is on a roll, big-time. Their quality is improving by leaps and bounds - quantum leaps, even. Their Sonata just beat out the Accord in a comparison test (Accords rarely lose comparos in the car magazines, so this was quite an upset, seeing as Sonatas rarely finish better than fifth or eighth!), the Elantra is all-new and doing great, their Genesis line is getting quite a bit of cred, and their new ultra-lux Equus just beat out the biggest Lexus in a heads-up match.

Add to that the fact that Hyundai have been virtually unaffected by the travails that have beset Japan and virtually the entire auto industry since the earthquake and tsunami (Hyundai sources very few of their parts and assemblies from Japan, unlike most other carmakers), and they've got quite a leg up on the competition all of a sudden!

But I still love my Hondas. Can't seem to let 'em go.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:08 PM

DREAMTROVE

Looking for something that has a 6 cyl engine, decent car, from a few years back, maybe 5, not too many, that still gets decent gas mileage.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 10:43 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I miss the econobox.
http://epautos.com/?p=2757

All I really *need* is a box with four wheels and an engine to go fetch groceries, and fucked if imma pay 20k+ for THAT, oh hell no.

Of course, one of the most fun cars I ever drove was a damn Gremlin-X, where the econobox met the muscle car in a kind of mutated high speed hell - it was a couple seats strapped to the back of a big damn engine and handled like a pig, but hoo boy that was all kinds of fun.

My problem with a lot of cars is that they're build for folk bigger than me!
I can just very barely reach the damn pedals of my Ex's Dodge Dakota with the seat all the way up, and in order to do it I have to scrunch way down to where I can't hardly see over the dash without a telephone book to sit on.
This is complicated by the fact that in order to drive I have to dismount my prosthetic and crank my left leg across at an angle, but hey, at least the dismounted prosthetic makes a handy upright holder for a 2-liter, neh ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 2:10 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Looking for something that has a 6 cyl engine, decent car, from a few years back, maybe 5, not too many, that still gets decent gas mileage.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

I learned to avoid odd numbers of cylinders after owning a Yamaha 850 triple and an Audi 5000S Turbo. Both were nightmares. I've been pretty happy with 4-bangers for the last 35 years or so, and think I'll stick with those. There've been a few clunkers in that lot (a Chevy Vega and a Volvo 740 Turbo), but overall I've been pretty happy with four cylinders of fury. :) I have fond memories of a '73 Buick Riviera with a big honkin' 455 cubic inch V8 (close to 8 liters of displacement), but it sucked down gas at an alarming rate, and handled like the pig it was.

Only V6 I ever owned was a Nissan Maxima with their venerable VQ-series V6. It was a pretty sweet car. I'd have another, if they offered it in a hatchback or wagon...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, May 2, 2011 2:23 AM

HARDWARE

I've recently seen Ford Pintos on E-bay and made me think. 4 banger, 4 speed, manual windows, no AC hatchback. They were good little cars other than the gas tank, which got fixed, and the windshield, that never did.

Or there is the Geo Metro from about 15 years back, that got around 40 mpg. A 4 seater, if two of them were kids. But another basic little hatch.

Unless you hate VWs, and owning newer VWs I can appreciate why, I'd suggest checking out a Golf or a new Beetle. They are surprisingly roomy cars. Their electrics will drive you crazy and almost everything needs dealer service. But, the Golf/Beetle undercarriage is common with first generation TT roadsters. My Beetle could corner like it was on rails. Averaged about 22 mpg in city/highway driving. Probably could have done better if I wasn't such a balloon foot. If you can do your own repairs they are good cars with lots of owner support, at least for the Beetles.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, May 2, 2011 4:08 AM

DREAMTROVE

Nissan. I always liked them. Had several

Thing is, I have a tow hitch and a trailer and a boat and sometimes stuff to move, and there's really no way to lie to myself and say that a 4-cyl is perfectly okay with that, because it's not. It would complain.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 5:02 AM

HARDWARE

DT, depends on how you define decent mileage. if you think 18/24 is good enough, look at a Chevy Colorado. I understand their 5 cylinders are pretty good for light towing.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Monday, May 2, 2011 10:17 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

I can generally remove about 75% of new cars from my shopping list just by trying to get into them. At 6'8", many's the car that I just don't fit in - either can't fold my legs under the dash, or can't wedge my head under the roof unless I turn it about 90º!

We had the opposite problem looking for a new car. Madame Geezer is about 5' on a good day, and in many cars the seat wouldn't move forward far enough for her to use the pedals, or if it did, the steering wheel was to close to her chest.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, May 2, 2011 1:26 PM

KWICKO

HW, I don't *hate* VWs, but let's just say I'm *very* leery of them. And it should be noted that every single one of my old "VW guy" buddies whom I used to autocross with and against have now given up on their veedubs. One went with Audi for a bit, but all are now Subaru guys. I'm talking a good half-dozen hardcore enthusiasts, who all walked away from the brand in a span of a couple of years, from 2006-2008. And every single one of them cited the same thing: electrical/electronic issues - those niggling problems that either couldn't be properly diagnosed, or couldn't be properly fixed.

I don't necessarily single out VW for those issues, though - it's becoming more and more common as cars get more and more complicated. I prefer to keep my cars quite simple (CRXs never had power window, mirrors, or door locks in this country, nor cruise control or automatic climate control, although all of these were offered elsewhere in the world; power steering was never available here, either).

I've toyed with the idea of locating and importing a rare CRX Exclusive from overseas. They're old enough now (20 years) to be able to be imported cheaply, without having to undergo the onerous federalization program, and as CRXs go, they're kind of the ne plus ultra of the line. Full glass roof (not a sunroof - a solid roof of tinted glass!), full leather interior (leather never offered here at any price), power everything, auto climate control, 160hp twin-cam VTEC engine (it was the second Honda to get VTEC, after the NS-X), etc. They were marketed more as a small personal-luxury coupe rather than a commuter or sporty car.

http://www.shoden.org/images/cars/CRX/CRX_Exclusive_800.bmp

DT, you might be surprised what a 4-cylinder Toyota can be capable of. Just ask Top Gear! :D

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Monday, May 2, 2011 7:12 PM

KWICKO

Others I'm leaning towards - some more strongly than others. With dogs and bikes, I'm partial to hatchbacks and wagons, not so much to SUVs.

Lexus IS300 Sportcross. Pros - 3.0 liter inline 6-cylinder, rear-wheel drive, luxury, quality. Cons - automatic transmission only, still a bit spendy. The car never sold well, but 6- or 7-year-old models still fetch $10k or so. Another pro: There is a TON of aftermarket support for the IS300/Altezza.

Mazda Protege5. Pros - 5-speed manual, lots of MazdaSpeed bolt-on goodies are made for it. Cons - front-wheel drive (but so are my Hondas, and that's never stopped me from having a blast with them!). Pro: Cheap. Good-condition models are $2500-$3500.

Honda Element. Pros - It's a Honda, so I know where everything is. And it handles great. Surprisingly well, in fact. Cons - it's definitely not pretty. I call it "cugly" - cute, cuddly, ugly. I kinda love it. The wife kinda hates it. She'd rather I go with a 1st-generation Scion xB:

I have no real objection to the xB. Either of the "mini-SUV" layouts might be easier for the dogs to get in and out of, and the Element would definitely be easiest to get bikes in and out of. And if you're very crafty, there's a turbocharged Acura RDX drivetrain that can go into the Element and boost it up to around 260hp...

Or I could just look for another Accord Wagon:

I have deep regrets about selling my '91, and the current owner refuses to sell it back to me (I don't blame him, either!). 5-speed Accord Wagons are rarer than hen's teeth, but they're out there. And of course, I know the car and engine inside and out. And they're cheap.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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